Developing a dog

[Form 4 Function]

I wrote this on my Facebook page and it's gotten such a positive response despite it's length that I figured I'd copy and past it here.   
       Developing a young warrior through its youth to maturity.    A large breed 14 month old dog is about equivalent to a 14 or 15 year old person.   Let's imagine you  at age 15 and your wanting to be a boxer. Sparing is fun your really into etc.   Then your coach starts putting you in the ring with good professional boxers once or twice a week and making you go 12 rounds.    After a bit the excitement wears off.    Twice a week your placed in the ring with a professional boxer and your a kid.  At the end of each fight your exhausted, hot, bruised, beaten up, pushed to the point of mental defeat etc.     After a while the excitement that was driving you and confidence in yourself fades.      You had a strong heart and strong will but it was not nurtured and developed.     What happens now is instead of engaging you start disengaging and become wishy washy because your hearts not in it now and because it wasn't nurtured.  Now you just box because it's only thing you know but the drive and heart isn't there like it once was. 
    A few guys have experienced this with their dogs in the past several months.       They get rock stars.  At 9 months the dog is a rock star so they give it all the work  that dog can handle.    Thinking they are developing it.   Believing the more work they give it the more developed and better the dog will become.   Then at 14 months old the dog catches some pigs and just hazes other pigs.   The dog is inconsistent  and wishy washy.  A badass on 1 pig and seemingly gutless on another and same caliber pig it was catching by itself at 10 or 11 or 12 months old months earlier.   The dogs heart is no longer in it.      The breeder obviously did his or her part but the handler took a rock star and molded it into something performance wise is either less than desirable or not worth feeding.  Does that ever come back?  Idk, I don't think so, at least not to the degree the dog could have and should have been.        The genes never changed. The DNA didn't change.  Can the dog be bred and used to create more rockstars?   Since it was a handler mistake I'd say of course it can.    Nothing has changed of than the handler broke the heart and will of the dog instead of developing the young dog into its full potential.  The heart of a champion crucified at the feet of ignorance or ego.   Our performance dogs are manipulated by selectively breeding to posses " naturally"  that which isn't natural in nature because such traits can't survive in nature because it's a type of self destructive behavior that is essentially too risky for the reward and the traits naturally cull themselves in nature until a happy medium is obtained for an efficient risk vs reward neutrality.   
     So a performance dog that naturally performs better on its own at 10, 11, 12 months old than it does at 16 or 17 months after 4 or 5 months of development was bred right. The coach on the other hand  failed the dog.         
  Ceaser Millan often said it's his clients that need so much of the coaching and correction or developing, not the dog.  I'm paraphrasing of course.   
    Make it fun when the dog is young, not work and the dog will grow into the work and live for it.      When this dog is 11 or 12 months old  take it for a short quick hunt every other week or once a week max.     It's not to be your lead catch dog on these hunts.  Hunt the dog behind that of your best catch dog 1 on 1 not 3 or 4 dogs out because that will promote and get the dog into very bad habits but that's a topic unto itself.    Short quick and cool as possible hunts with a two catch per hunt maximum for the young dog and no more than once a week.  Do this for a few months. Even when the young dog starts catching its own decent pigs, still only let the dog on a couple pigs then put it up for a week.    This will result in much fun for the dog.  Boost its confidence  and insure the dog longs for and desires to go hunting.  You have ended the hunts on a great note for the young dog.  Before the dog was worn out, hot, or stressed or beat up to much.       Once the dog is 15 or 16 months old 3 catchs per hunt maybe 4 catches every once in a while if they are quick easy stress-free where the dogs haven't caught huge boars and had long hold times and aren't hot.       Again the object is to keep it fun still while allowing the dog a little more work.    By 18 months old your big rcd should be ready for occasional long hard hunting offset with short fun hunts and still only 1 hunt per week max.    20 months to 2 yrs old is when you let that big dog eat and and start using him as the champion you have nurtured and developed.     
         I've seen many people resort to beating on the head of their catch dog in an attempt to get it to turn loose of a pig and the chore takes 2 people to accomplish.     We don't want to be doing this either to our young catch dog.  One  it can be stressful and confusing to the young dog and that's not a demonstration of hardness but rather willful defiance which again goes back to the handler.   This again is a topic unto itself which goes back to the house yard and you putting a handle on the dog there as a pup rather than  taking a dog to the field with virtually no obedience training then tripping the trigger on that catch dog.   Hmmmm, what did you expect lol.       
     My rough time line is for big wolfhound based or dane based finder holder style RCDs and crop dogs.  Small catch dogs like the pit and bull terriers or pit and bull terrier based dogs are usually capable of tolerating a little more pressure at quicker intervals.  They are mentally a little different and physically mature quicker.  Still I recommend same concepts  but in a quicker graduation scale.  Also the lead in style work is a different situation.  It's not as much work for the cd, the hold times are only a fraction of what a finder holder hold time is and there are many dogs there helping out and the atmosphere is different.  All this coupled with a smaller and quicker maturing dog with a tad bit different mentality means for me that it's not as quite as stressful since the lead in style dog can tolerate a little  more stress which is handy because the environment the lead in catch dog is usually having to catch in is usually some of the nastiest and thickest around.  Plus the lead in is catching on the pigs terms, not the dogs terms which again is offset by the amount of dogs used and the fact that the lead in catch dog is lead to the pig and is caught  only for a very limited amount of time.     I still think a pit or bull terrier should be allowed to get a year old before the light field work begins though.   
    These are my opinions and how I tend to develop my personal dogs based off my own experiences and that of others both through hard and positive lessons learned.   I hope yall find this interesting and insightful.

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[t-dog]

Dean I agree with what you are getting at. MANY hunters confuse physical maturity with mental maturity. They think that because a dog is physically able to keep up that they are ready for the big stage. I have seen more dogs that were heck I guess about every age I can imagine in the woods on live hunts. Once upon a time I was guilty of it myself. I learned that a couple of months in a dog can make a huge difference. I don’t start my find dogs or my catch dogs on live, uncontrolled situation hunts until they are a year old. They go to their first hunt thinking they are already hog dogs not realizing I was in control of everything they experienced to that point. When I say everything I mean them finding hogs that were planted and exposing them to hogs that aren’t going to wreck them. If they (my find dogs)  are too salty for the size hog I am using I will graduate them to something that can get their attention without devastating them. I never let the dog dictate when we quit. I always end it with them really interested not wanting to quit. You are right that confidence and boredom can ruin a young dog quick. My catch dogs have always been really early starters, but their bigger dogs so I choose to let them mature physically. I like to let those teeth get good and set too. 1 year old is not old, and I know myself it’s hard to wait on those up and comers. It’s all good too until that wrong hog gets found, then that super star is a falling star. It doesn’t matter what species it is game dogs, game chickens, triple crown winners, etc. etc. you can make anything quit. Lack of mental maturity and confidence are absolutely the easiest ways to make that happen.


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[Reuben]

The last paragraph I copied from Deans post…years ago I developed the same theory…another extreme example is the game bred Pitbull meeting head on with a rank 300 pound boar hog and never back down or quit until he physically can keep going and until death without ever thinking of backing down…he is that way because through selection he was bred that way…in nature this dog would gravitate back to a normal average through natural selection…as all things in the wild live by these rules…Mother Nature is a beautiful thing…

Many years ago I saw where a lab bred an English bull dog and eleven of the pups looked more like the lab and only one pup looked like a pit bull but with a lab head…my final theory on why none of the pups looked anything like an English bulldog was the extreme genetic makeup of the bulldog have to be recessive genes so when bred to a more normal looking dog the extreme broad body and head did not display on the pups nor the extreme flat face…

With pups and young dogs it is all about winning and short training sessions…keeping it fun an not work…at some point in time the strike dog pups will need to learn some respect or like T-dog said they might not live over their first real hunt…

I also agree with maturity in the pups in minimizing possible rough situation…but nothing makes me really feel good about a pup that takes a whipping and gets back up and gets right back in their face…that is a lot of points earned for breeding privileges in the future…a pup that quits and doesn’t recover I probably don’t need anyway…I’ve ruined a few but not many…it is good to know which pups have that mental toughness about them…breeding a little outside the norm for the things we want in a dog…

Dean’s comments below…

Our performance dogs are manipulated by selectively breeding to posses " naturally"  that which isn't natural in nature because such traits can't survive in nature because it's a type of self destructive behavior that is essentially too risky for the reward and the traits naturally cull themselves in nature until a happy medium is obtained for an efficient risk vs reward neutrality.   

[t-dog]

Reuben I agree that no matter the age they have to posses a certain degree of toughness or hog dog gameness. When I say not mentally able to deal with adversity I’m not talking about slapped or a skin cut or two, I’m talking about sure enough hammered.  Hammered happens with puppies or real young dogs because they are naive which allows the physically awkward animal to get caught because they put themselves in harms way without realizing it and then aren’t coordinated enough to get out of their own way much less a hogs. I had a pup named shorty once. He was the runt of the litter and he was baying before his eyes were open. He had that “it” factor about him. He looked like an old dog from the first mock hunt and athletic. I just knew he was going to be the great one, that once in a lifetime type. So I decided at about 8 months old I couldn’t wait anymore and loaded him with the old dogs one morning. We found a nasty boar that morning and he cut shorty to the point that his front leg was barely on. He never bayed another hog. Every one of his litter mates turned out and I personally saw some of them take some real punishment and never missed a beat. They didn’t quit that day and when they were healed were the same dog they were before being cut. The difference in them and shorty wasn’t the severity of the cutting, it was the age they were when it happened to them. The others were mentally mature when it happened and shorty wasn’t. So we have to be rational in our judgement. I realize Dean started this talking about the big breed RCD’s but it absolutely applies to ALL hog dogs in my opinion.


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[Reuben]

T-dog…I don’t intentionally put a pup in harms way but it happens at times…I had a pup that I named Gold Nugget…he was pure Kemmer bred from a really good bloodline…he had everything I liked, size, conformation, slick coat, and color was right…he also had the brains…we were on a hunt and at 6 months he was hunting really well…it was his third time out and improving…in a black berry patch and cutover the size of maybe 10 acres and the hogs ran and hid in this patch…the 4 wheeler had trouble busting in a few spots in this patch…this pup was in their crawling around trailing pigs and he found one that worked him over pretty good…long story short, he quit hunting after that incident…

I didn’t prepare this pup as I normally do…no bay pen time only fed him a few raw hog heads as a little pup .

The wolf as many other predators have fear factors that the babies will possess which more than likely it happened through evolution…the first one is early around two months but not exactly sure on exact time for pups…I see this as a time when they leave the den to explore their surroundings…the cubs or pups that explore too far will get lost or eaten by other predators thus eliminating themselves out of the genetic pool…

The second one comes at a time when they are almost old enough to go on a hunt…those that lack the right amount of fear or caution at this stage will get disabled or killed and will be eliminated from the gene pool as well…

So the pups we raise will normally have these same traits naturally…but as previously said we breed our dogs according to our likes and dislikes…

This is a good subject…hopefully more will contribute their thoughts and theories on developing a dog…

[WayOutWest]

Most all of your musings are spot on Dean, not just for your type dogs but most hog dogs. You can get away with starting them young right up until you can't.  Doesn't matter if it's dogs or people, getting them in over their head too young can set that confidence back so far you can't find it again.

[Goose87]

Only thing I'll add to this is that Archie Manning didn't allow Peyton to play full contact football until he was 14 yrs old, he wanted him to be both physically and mentally developed to handle the rigors of that life, the results speak for themselves, correlate that into how science says dogs age and grow that would be equivalent to a two year old dog, a lot of it stands to reason if we put a little thought into it.....

[Form 4 Function]

Only thing I'll add to this is that Archie Manning didn't allow Peyton to play full contact football until he was 14 yrs old, he wanted him to be both physically and mentally developed to handle the rigors of that life, the results speak for themselves, correlate that into how science says dogs age and grow that would be equivalent to a two year old dog, a lot of it stands to reason if we put a little thought into it.....

 If thats the case with Peyton, when he did start playing full contact i bet it was against players his own age then too and not against college or professionally types untill he too was physucally and mentally mature enough to do so and as good and mature as they were

[Judge peel]

I like all your points but I will say this. Some need it some don’t. Some won’t unless you do and won’t if you do. So you have to put them as individuals and pick up or put down ass needed. Hard work can pay off in some and some is wasted. One reason some guys don’t do much at all till it’s game time


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[Austesus]

Good write up, Dean. I currently have 2 male pups I bred that are doing great. They’ll turn 1 year old on September 10th. I have kept the female pup put up because she seems much less mature and doesn’t want to leave my feet. Both males will leave out like their tail is on fire and they’ve both struck hogs several times and have probably been on 20-30 at this point. I have been cautious with them though, trying not to hunt them too much because I know I’m throwing the dice with them getting on a rank boar. I keep having to remind myself that they are still puppies because they’re hunting great with all the drive and endurance I could ask for and they’re now bigger than every dog on my yard. They’re on track to be the best two dogs I’ve owned if they keep progressing like they are.

Unfortunately here in SC we can’t move live hogs (well you can with a permit but you can’t cross county lines so that’s irrelevant for 99% of people). It makes it very hard to get your hands on one for training. I joined a club this year that runs deer dogs, I’m the only one that hog hunts. They have nice roads through the property which is a first for me. These pups did great roading last Friday night, it was their first time. They stayed 75-100yds in front of the truck and were winding and zig zagging back and forth hunting. I knew there was more than likely no hogs on that part of the property but just wanted to see how they’d do. I would love to get my hands on one to tie off so I could let them find it by roading. I have always walk hunted in the past. With some road access now, and more hunts from the boat, I’m trying to work with all types of hunting to have better rounded dogs. They are casting decent (400ish-500ish) yards which is the top end of what I want since I don’t have a bunch of huge tracks of land.

One of the pups really impressed me a few weeks ago. We hunted the river and were walking a creek that was pretty far back in the swamp. The pup swam the creek by himself and took off at a full sprint when his feet hit the ground. His mom swam after him but after smelling around on the other bank she swam back. I told my buddy that we would just leave him alone and keep hunting. Well after 10-15 minutes we hear some distant barking. Look at the garmin and he was almost 500yds out bayed. He caught by the time we got there and the other dogs of course came in and helped him. I could see the dry spot where that hog had been bedded down since before the morning dew, so I know he must have winded him. That was his first time finding his own and since then he has been on a mission. If all goes well they should both make really good dogs in another year.



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[Form 4 Function]

Austesus, Sounds like you have a set of young dogs that your quite pleased with.  They sound like  hunting machine's.    Its always nice to have young dogs your having to hold back for their own good.     If they are catching, I'd hunt them in a simple and light Australian style chest plate.   Sounds like they have the fire.   Just keep it short and fun during this hot weather and by the time we feel the seasonal shift in temps i bet they will be ready for whatever you throw at them. 

[Judge peel]

Nice dog bubba


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[Austesus]

Thank you Judge!

Dean, what kind of plates are you running? I normally run just a cut collar or a southern cross ultra flex elite strike vest. Just depending on the dogs catch style and the temperatures. Here are better pictures of Red.



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[t-dog]

That is a pretty rascal


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[HuntingHeritage]

Dean, what kind of plates are you running?

 https://www.facebook.com/hairyholderbreastplates