EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

With almost 1600 members and the discussions on the "Ben" lines and the numbers of pups stated that have and are produced how many here actually USE these dogs? not just raise them for the money,name and the pappers and % of "Ben" blood ?  I would think w/ as many Ben dogs that are said to be around that many here would be useing them.

What are y'alls thoughts?

dang, I could only pick one option....so i put that I use them..but there is some hype..

underdog this is a loaded question..lol. if you are on this board and you've said you have ben blood and you are looking to sell pups, then you aren't going to publically say i have a bunch of ben dogs but i don't use them(at least not here). i have no ben in either of my gyps. heard the good and bad about this line. some people sing their praises and others i've talked to wouldn't own one if you gave it to them.

my personal opinion is that this line is like the jeep line in pitbulls. ben got real popular(like jeep) and people started breeding papers and for %'s and it worked for a while because ben was a good producer. then people started to think that you can stick a ben dog to anything and get good dogs and that's when the line started to become watered down. i think if you got a ben dog from linebred working parents you have a special dog and if you breed it to other linebred working ben dogs you'll probally get a litter of very good dogs. i think the problem is that many people that say they are working their ben dogs really aren't, which supports my origianl statement that this is a loaded question.

duece24 - you have nailed it..

I have seen some of these dogs, but was not really impressed with them. Of course I use my on dogs. Just this year I purchased a Ladner pup, and so far im please with what I see in him.

IM going to start somthing here I know. Breeding dogs is tricky. Good dog to good dog does not always get you good dogs. I may get over some peoples head and im not trying to be cute. Breeding dogs is alot like breeding cattle. If you take and breed line bred to line bred you should get what is called an F1 X. But both famlies have got to be dang good famlies. What I mean is still have all the traits that you are looking for and need to produce same. But line breeding will bring out the bad traits also. Any thing else to me is a crap shot

thanx dawson...i figured i was on the right road.

rocking p you are new here, so you don't know but we have talked about f1 crosses. you are right though, if you breed a freakishly good dog to another freakisly good dog but all the dogs behind those two are avg more than likely you are going to get avg pups(at best). now take a linbred dog of above avg dogs bred to another above avg dog line bred on above avg dogs, you chances now go up.

something was told me a long time ago. you very seldom see a a great dogman as a great breeder and you very seldom see a great breeder be a great dogman. there is always an exception to the rule, but thru the coarse of history with respect to pitbulls. the great breeders were never great dogmen and the great dogmen very seldom bred up good dogs.

My 2 W. Ben dogs were baught to hunt hogs. I will breed the 2 I have because that is what I want to do with them. I will not  be selling them, I want the litter for personal use. If someone has just started hog hunting with dogs it is hard to find a dog to hunt with, I dont care what flavor you want. On these boards you always read about somebody being pissed off because they bought a dog and it wasn't worth !@#$, and they cant find the person that sold it to them. My question to everybody that reads this is.  Where can I go buy a BMC that is line breed for years that is guaranteed or your money back?

I really did not want to discuss breeding and such so much as how many use these dogs,although there have been some good points brought up. I read a thread on here that quoted a very large number of these ben dogs being bred etc. so I was just curious how many actually use them.

I'd venture to say that you couldn't buy one...the ones that would have those don't sell too many dogs. They keep them close with folks that they trust to do right by their dogs.

Randy Wright sells them with that guarantee up to a year old, I believe.

I hunt 2 dogs with Ben blood.  They are not perfect, but they do hunt well for me

Ok, I will bite...Guaranteed to do what exactly?

You beat me too it ;D

there is a guy in new caney or cleveland that has some dogs that are down from james davis and he is guaranteeing his pups up to one year. i belive the guarantee is that your dog will work a pig at a year. meaning get out hunt, find and bay a pig. he isn't guaranteeing nothing more than if you have been working with the dog at a year or shortly there after they should hunt, find and bay pigs. not saying they will be great dogs, but they will find a pig and bay it.

and james davis blood is hard to come by now, but all the research i have done shows that it was/is a strong line of good dogs. i feeling pretty blessed to have stumbled upon my 1/2jd curs gyp(oh and i paid nothing for her...lol).

So who is hunting all these dogs and this line???

A BMC that will strike a hog and bay till the catch dog gets there.

I have only had 4 or 5 litters of pups, but to my knowledge I haven't had any that wouldn't bay a hog...now finding consistently, not sure about.  I am not sure, because you never hear from most of them...I feel I could put a guarantee on my pups to eat, drink, poop, sleep, and find an occasional hog and bay a pigs head off in a pen.  So, the next time I sell a pup I will give this guarantee..

Yep, a little hard to find...the ones I hunted with were as rough as a cobb and didn't live to be old dogs.

dawson i know where you are coming from...but there have been dogs that at a year or more they won't even look at a hog, won't bay, etc. so these people are simply saying at a year your pup will bay a pig. and even some will say if you aren't pleased with your pup then bring it back and we will replace with a pup from another litter.

i already know what you are going to say(cuz i feel the same way) if i have a pup from a line that doesn't work out i dont' want another one from the same line...lol. some have more patience than i do, but if i buy a pup from you and it doesn't work i'm not going to come back and get another one, i'll spend my money else where...that is just me.

I have no experience with WB Curs but have hunted behind a Ladner/Whippet that I was impressed with but afater reading the last response I had hte thought of :
 If the pup doesn't please you after 1 year do they give you a 1 yr old or do you start the first year over??

when i talked to mr. davis that is what he told me also..lol. luckily mine isn't that rough. she will pull hair once she knows the hog can't get her(notice i didn't say that she catches after the catchdog..lol..just when she knows she isn't in danger..lol). she didn't really crank up until about a year or so. i was looking to get rid of her, now the only time i thought about getting rid of her is when me and the wife were having problems and i thought i needed to get rid of the dogs..but lucky me that wasn't neccessary. other than that, money can't buy that gyp...

Well, from one of the breeders it has only happend once. Hell, almost any dog will bay a hog, and most of the people that buy from these breeders are new hog hunters, or are buying them for a farm/ranch dog, or are cow dog people...Not that some of us haven't bought them for hog dogs, but just talking about the majority.  So, if I sell 50 a year and you bring back 5 (which doesn't happen) it would be easy to give a guy back his money...If someone came to my house with one of my dogs I would give them their money back as well.  I would rather them do that than try to sell it to someone else.  I would take it in and see if it had any potential, if not I would cull it.

Just another point to add . . . Sometimes people tend to call any dog that is registered with the FBMCBO, and it has Ben in the pedigree a few times, they call this a Weathorford Ben dog.  However, most of the Ben bred dogs I've seen and seen their paperwork, are mixed up with other folks bloodlines too.  You will see alot of "Simms" blood, as well as "Gay" bloodline, etc. in most of those Wright bred dogs.  I had a dog on my place that I hunted for a while, I didn't own him, but hunted him and bred a couple gyps to him.  He was FBMCBO registered, and carried like 37% Ben.  But he was mainly line-bred Benson's Little Bobbie.  But I was guilty of referring to him as the "Weathorford Ben" bred dog, when in actuality, he was more other stuff than Ben.  I think people see those Foundation papers and just automatically think "BEN", Hell I was guilty of it.  Just like deuce24 said, (reference to Jeep) it may be a great grandson of Ben on the top-side, but the bottom half might be predominantly something else, and maybe a little Ben in the mix somewhere, that doesn't make it a Ben dog.  It makes it a blackmouth dog with some Ben influence in its ancestry.  People tend to forget that there are other dogs in the ancestry that could be influencing the breeding more than Ben, but because its FBMCBO, people just think BEN, the if turns out good or bad, BEN gets the credit or the blame.  I would say if you had a double grandson of BEN, and then you bred it to a double grandaughter of Ben, then you could honestly call that a BEN bred dog.  However, what if those two dogs you bred together were junk to start with?  People buy the pup, it doesn't turn out, and then they say . . . I wouldn't have a BEN dog.  Well maybe what they should have said is I wouldn't have a dog bred by "such-and-such person" because that particular individual does not test his dogs and makes junk breedings.  There are lots of people out there breeding BEN dogs, and selling BEN bred pups, who are doing nothing more than lining up percentages on pedigrees and saying, "Well I've got "such-and-such" percentage BEN in these pups, so they will be worth this much.  I owned some BEN bred dogs.  Got rid of most of them.  Some were good, some weren't.  Its really JUST THAT SIMPLE with most bloodlines.  Here is one truth . . A bloodline of dogs is ONLY as good as the man culling them.  Two people can start out with the same dogs from the same breeder and both men buy 10 puppies each and never breed off the yard.  If their breeding, testing, hunting, culling philosophies are drastically different, I promise you can come back to both those same men 10 years later and the dogs will be drastically different in the way they hunt, work, percentages turining out, etc.  And THEY BOTH HAVE THE EXACT SAME BLOODLINES ON PAPER.  There are good Ben dogs, and there are bad ones.  It really just comes down to who is buying their feed and how much they expect out of the dogs they choose to keep and breed.           

Just one more point . . I am not FOR or AGAINST Ben bred dogs.  I am probably like most folks, I just like a GOOD dog, no matter what the breeding.  We owned 7 or 8 FBMCBO reg. Ben bred dogs.  Most of them did not turn out, a couple of them did and we like those dogs and they can continue to eat our feed.  We hunted the Clyde dog of Robert Benson's for about a year.  Most people would call him a Ben bred dog.  He was rolling out over 2 miles and finding, stopping and baying hogs at 9 yrs old with no teeth.  I think he would be a good dog by anyone's definition.  He also would work cows real well.  So there is just one  example of a good Ben dog amongst the 1000's of junkie ones.  Just a reminder to all the future Weathorford's Ben owners.  Don't buy into the percentages, buy into the MAN that hunts them, culls them, and buys their feed.  If you call someone with some BEN pups for sale and all they can tell you is . . "these pups are 67.5% this and 35.4% that" . . then I would immediatley hang up the phone.  Hell . . you're not buying a calculator, you're buying a dog.     

i like the foundation dogs , thats mostly what i've been using ,i'm over here across the river .. in a thicket and thats the only thing worth feeding i've found so far .  almost 4 out of 5 of the ones i've had passed my inspection . 4 of them came from over here ( tn and east ) , and they'd been here for several years . i just used a7 month old pup today on a cow job because i was short handed , and she did better than i could of hoped for,  the one i culled came from a well known breeder and he made it right  when the dog didnt turn out.
 he's a stand up man as far as i know .

   i probably shouldnt say this , but i have to wonder why randy sold senorita  in the first place and why shes been for sale everyso often since then .

   i think hes produced some excellent dogs , and there will be good dogs come out of them  in the coming years .

I have a male dog comin 2 that came from 4D kennels in N.M. he's off Wrights Western Cinch thats been finding hogs sense he was 9months He's still got some learning to do but I can catch hogs with him.I can only say good about the way Steven Dallas of 4D has treated me and he does hog hunt This is not a advertisement for anyone just telling my experience with the( one) WB dog I have .I will mention that I had a yellow jacket bred gyp that came from DG Dawson that was making a good dog but lightnin struck her

I know exactly zero about BMC lines or Weatherfords Ben and his progeny.  BUT, I sure can appreciate a few of these replies as they apply to ALL breeders, ALL bloodlines and ALL breeds!

Steve

Redriverslim -  You sir hit the nail right on the head....Dogs are dogs, it is the man behind them that makes them better or worse with how he manages their progeny.

378 veiws,and 10 of 28 votes FOR Ben dogs.....thats it outa all these close to 1600 members?

I have only been doggin for acouple of years, so you can take my opinion for what its worth. All the dogs I hunt with are Ben bloodlines from 4-D Kennels out of N.M. I am really impressed with these dogs agility and heart. My best dog is 4-D Thor which is out of SD Zeus x Wrights Western Tia. Thor has plenty of drive and very gritty, when he hits the ground he is always suited up. I'm sure there are many different bloodlines and breeds that are great hog dogs too but the Ben bloodline is what I use. Just my .02.

Thans for sharing..

So ???? dont really see your point i guess. Out of the people that have viewed the post I doubt more than three have even seen a 50% ben dog hunt 1 time, much less owned one. Plus from a point of view i live most of my life by, be financial, political, etc. if you see the herd going one way I would reccomend going the other.

Sounds like a good one! I dont perfer gritty so I am hoping mine will take to the dogs i am hunting him with.

I think someone nailed it early in the post...most hog hunters don't want to pay the money it would take to get a ben dog.  Most of the people who have them are probably cow dog people..I would also suspect that lots of dogs out there have a little ben in them and most don't know it.  I want to know all the history on any of my dogs, but find most hog hunters (from my dealings) just want a dog that will hunt and don't want to waste space in their head to have to remember the where and the how ;D

Make Em Squeel, I'm proud of 4-D Thor, he is the grittiest dog i have. His pedigree is SD Zeus x Wrights Western Tia, but I have another Ben dog that is out of Wrights Western Rustler X Wrights Western Senorita that is more of a bay dog. So depending on how it is bred you may have more of a bay dog than a rough gritty dog. Good Luck

I have two dogs in my yard with Ben blood in them.  One is a registered dog and the other isn't.  I REALLY like both dogs.  Based off of what these dogs have shown me I would not hesitate to snatch another up if the opportunity presents itself. 

I feel like the older the blood you got from randy the better.  Some of the stuff he started out with was line and inbred to the hilt.  I just believe that the dogs are getting watered down because of all the looser breeding (by not proving the dogs first before they are bred)..

i agree , dgdawson , i use to use hangin tree dogs on cattle . after they got popular and i ran out of them  the price went up and the quality went down .

dgdawson, you seem to be going back and forth with your opinion on the Ben dogs. So what is your opinion on Ben and Randy's dogs, are you dogging them or supporting them? Have you talked to Randy personally or are you just making assumptions? Have you bought dogs from him to know what his guarantees are? Have you had dealings with him, or is this a thinly veiled attempt to back the dogs that you sell?

ahk ohh , look out folks  .  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Obviously you haven't been reading what I have written.  I think the dogs have the potential to be great.  I don't have to talk to him to know how he is breeding the dogs.  You can't use every dog you have as a stud dog. That is common sense.  I haven't sold a pup in over a year, and have only sold 6 pups and two started dogs in my life.  I don't mass produce dogs, and don't want to breed anything until I find the dog that I think is suitable to be bred.  I have a problem with the philosophy of using any dang dog to breed just because it is marketed as a genetic wonder dog...The statement that you can use any dang gyp in the yard as a brood gyp is just stupid and it is why people don't have better dogs today.  Now do yourself a favor and go back and read what I have written.  I coulld care less about his guarantee, because I know that he has a yard full of dogs(I have friends I trust who have been to his yard many times) on chains and doesn't hunt them to know which dogs would be best for hog dogs.  Also, cow dogs that will bay thier heads off in a pasture at cows they can see with their eyes are not good enough to be bred for hog dogs. Oh and I could put down that I am Jesus on my website and that doesn't make it true. Hopefully you can see what I am trying to say...If I need to be more clear, pm me and I will call you and we can talk about it.  My attempt was to help, but obviously you tooK offense to something I said.  

  WOW!  What a topic!  I will try to answer some questions that I know to be facts.  To jdt I currently own Rita and she will never be sold again.  That I can tell you for a fact.  Why did he sell her in the first place you asked?  Well to be quite frank (Things happen in everyones lives that cause them to part with something from time to time that they wish they didn't have to sell).  I would suggest you call Randy and ask him why he sold her.  He will tell you and then you won't have to do any wondering.  I am really still trying to see the relavance of that post.  Does it matter that he sold Rita?  Should everyone be suspicous of the man that sold Weatherford's Ben? :)  Or could it be because it was a lot of $$$ offered for the dog ;) 
  I can in fact, also say I hunt these dogs and can show them in the woods anytime.  I have had several dealings with Randy Wright and he has conducted himself with nothing but honesty and integrity every time.  The dogs were what he said they would be every single time.  So I say if you can rattle off percentages and be 100% right in how these dogs will work.  Well that kinda speaks for itself doesn't it.  As far as, guarentees go.  I have seen Mr. Wright on several occassions send people dogs when other peoples dogs didn't work out for free.  They were registered with the foundation and linked back to his stock.  He didn't make one red penny on the deal.  He just wanted to insure the integrity of the association and for the sake of our breed.  He didn't have to do this but he did it.  If you buy a dog from him he guarentees YOU to be satified with the dog.  It's really quite simple!  If you are not happy with the dog then let him know and he will do what he needs to make it right.  Man what more can anyone ask for?  The stud dogs that he owns.  He has proven those dogs on cattle.  There is a lot more to a cow dog than going to a pasture and baying up some cows or yearlings.  There are a lot of big, rough places where the dogs have to track those cattle.  So don't assume that a cow dog never has to hunt for cattle.  In fact, a lot of these same qualities are what is needed in hog hunting.  Therefore, making these dogs a no brainer when it comes to hunting.  I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in Weatherford Ben genetics give Randy a call.  He will be more than happy to tell you the good and the bad.  That way you are not hearing random junk from others.  There are a lot of people out there that claim to have Ben this and Ben that but that is sooooo not the case.  Heck, at least ask someone who has bought a dog from him.  Maybe, I need to start a poll on who has bought dogs from Randy and been happy with the outcome.  I bet it would be funny to see if the same ones that know so much about Randy Wright, his genetics, his guarrentees and so on have ever bought from him :) 

  JMHO!!               

Randy doesn't have a dog on his yard with much more than 50% WB breeding, but I know 3 people that have dogs with over 60%....So if you want ben dogs why go to randy?  So Bogger, lets talk WB genetics and see whose dog has more Ben in them...and it says clearly on his website that Bounty Hunter never produced a cull, so what are all these culls that he has replaced?  How is that possible if there are no culls.  So, which is it, does he replace culls or is he Marketing that he doesn't have any.. What if I could give you the number of a guy who 5 years ago bought several dogs from him and culled everyone of them.  What if I told you that several were sons of Bounty Hunter....Would you still say I didn't know what I am talking about?  How about I give you his number and you can go talk to him.  Oh and WB was sold to Randy for $150.00 because he was a cull that was a straight catch dog.  Now this doesn't mean that everyone would cull him, but it isn't like you say that Randy paid a bunch of money for him either.  Lets talk facts....Where do you live, I want to come see your ben dogs?  Tell me how they hunt and tell me about their bottom....Tell me how many culls you have had and what your success rate is....Have you produced any dogs, or have you bought them all frrom Randy?  I don't want to buy from him because it says on his website that ben and bounty hunter never produced a cull.  That scares me enough to stay away.  Especially when I know for a fact that ben had 40 litters...Where are all those top dogs now?  We know none of them were culled right?

wow  where to start what a topic. I am steven of 4d kennels ive had these ben dogs going on 12 years and hunt them very week I always hunt a dog to find out its potential before i breed them  so all of my dogs have proven them selves to me all 30 of them lol i personally guarantee my dog to work what ever you are trying to do with it from hogs,bears,cats,people,cows, it dont matter these dogs wrork whatever u want to put in front of them but it does matter on who trys to work them some people just shouldnt even bother   and some are right we as breederes do like the best of breeds to stay close or to peole we trust but evan the others are still elite oh well just a few words i could ramble forever but i do use my dogs alot and are what work for me
thanks matt and casey for ur input
575 693 8491
if anyone want to know more

Stephen - Didn't mean to pull you into this, I have heard good things about you and your dogs...Let me ask you this, do you think that if you went to Randy's today and started over that you would have as good of dogs as you have now?  Honest question..

 I am baseing my hunting dogs around her.  I need a set of jam up cow dogs and a set of jam hog dogs.  I figured who better to do it with than one of the best female BMC's in the country.

Bogger - Saw this on another page from you...You invited people on the website to come see your dogs hunt.  So do you have these dogs today, or is it your hope to breed them in the future...Cause it sounded like you were speaking from experience..

  I am from Bremond Texas and yes we can go hunting.  Give me a call and we can set it up.  My number is at the bottom of this post.  You will leave here with a different perspective, I promise.  I feel you will be happy with what you see out of these yellow hammers :)  To answer the other stuff.  Randy was replacing other folks stuff not his.  However, if he needed to he would replace one of his as well.  I know this for a fact.  As far as, what Ben brought (that's really none of my business).  I don't have any animosity towards you.  I just stand up for what I beleive in and I beleive in Randy Wright and his genetics.  Again, he has always treated me with the upmost respect.  He has also always had nothing but the highest of moral character and been 100% honest.  You asked Steven where he would be today if he had to start over?  What is your point here?  Are you saying that the dogs Randy is currently raising are not as good as they use to be?  

    

    Yes I have had them and yes I have them now.  I will just be basing a lot off of her in the future.  I am not in to selling my dogs.  Anyone that knows me can tell you this.  I breed them for me to use.  As well as, some close friends.  You can be the judge if you show up for a hunt ;)  I am more than likely not nearly as knowledgeable about all of this as you though ;D   

Yes, that is my belief...So, does Randy feel that any of his dogs are fit to breed?  If so, then why wouldn't the dogs progeny be fit to breed.  Or is it that only Randy's can breed the two dogs and get aces.  If I breed A and B from his yard together, shouldn't I get aces too?  I really like the debate, and have no animosity to you either.  What will I see from your dogs that are different from the ones I have?  My point in this whole thread is that I have ben dogs and I have no name dogs...I keep the good ones and I have good ones that are not ben bred dogs...I personally have seen some jam up Ben bred dogs, but they are from older stock. Now I will be honest, I haven't seen everyones dogs..  When I look at the papers I have seen, I see that Randy bought Ben and then outcrossed him to several other females in the foundation program...Burkhart, Sims, Gay and others...then it looks like the progeny have been bred together..  I know for a fact that some of these dogs are better than the others...If they weren't, why does Randy have 3 or 4 of the older dogs bloodlines that he markets?  I have a couple of my dogs that are way more dog aggressive than I want.  I wish I knew where it came from so I could get rid of it.  I met someone in Louisiana who bought a dog from Randy 12 years ago and this dog havd no aggression problems at all, they line bred/inbred this dog with a jam up local female BMC and they have thrown many jam up dogs.  I bought one of their dogs and if he turns out like some of their others I will use him,  He will protect hmself, burt has no aggressin issues that I can see so far.

Again, I just want to debate...I am not saying I know it all, just want to know it all ;D  Tell me about your dogs...What do you like about them?  Is there anything you don't like about them?  I will tell you my dogs faults if you tell me yours ;)

I guess where I am going here is that everyone is on a different plane when it comes to what they expect out of their dogs...I have no doubt that there are some people on here that I could go hunting with that would smoke you and my dogs....at one time I was very happy with my dogs, untill I saw better dogs and then realized that mine were lacking in some areas.  I have seen dogs that have the bottom to stay on hogs many hours....they produce more hogs than my dogs do...my dogs would probably suit most people on this board, but I want better dogs always...

Somewhere around 10 years ago I made my first phone call to Randy Wright....talked with him about his dogs off and on for several months.....he always had the same things to say.....unbelievable amount of successful puppies, "chainsaw on a hog rearend", super long range, on and on......he and a couple of his cronies where breeding piles of dogs....he was in kahoots with a couple other guys around the south and they were popping out puppies and shipping them all over....If i remember one of the other guys name was lamon....or something like that.......

The sad simply fact is that Randy Wright is not a hog hunter, nor were his cronies......they were strait up pupppy peddlers......breeding piles of unproven dogs to unproven dogs.....always with some kind of grandeous story behind each one.....at the most he was a bay penner.....

but let's take Randy wright and his buddies lack of woods time completely out of the discussion.......It is completely impossible for ANY PERSON to own enough proven finished breedable dogs and produce the amount of puppies he did.......

I got a puppy from him....it was junk.....no big deal, no litter is 100 %....I have hunted with 6 other grown ben dogs.....all not worth my feed......

Now i'm not saying that all ben dogs are completely junk.....i'm sure there are some good ones out there.....at least i hope there are......cause there is a pile of ben dogs on the ground.......my point is with that many unproven dogs being bred to create a line.......you are not buying anything that is any different than your average grade dog......your just buying a normal curdog pup.......

Thank you Dan...Some people can't see it....I am not saying Randy is a bad guy, but $$ talks...I have talke to several known dog men who do the same thing....You can not mass produce proven dogs....It just can't be done in the numbers they have bred.  Bogger, I know you bought a female from him that produced Pistolero, and he did it because he could get good of money for her and could replace her in a second on his yard...That is a fact...  Have you been to his yard?  Be honest, how many dogs does he have in his yard?  How long would it take in man years to prove all those dogs?  It isn't like making gasoline, there are differences in the dogs...Do you really think that Randy invented the best way to breed dogs?  Hell, all he did was buy up a bunch of old timers work and breed them together and market them.  The genius is in his marketing, not in his genetics or his breeding skills.

  I honestly only have one thing that I don't like about them.  I just wish they knew property lines better ;D  No seriously, I have a male dog that I thank a lot of.  He is a hard hunter!  When he was younger he was a touch rough which like to cost him a time or two.  When you let him go he leaves out and takes care of business.  When you hear him open up he is looking at a hog.  He doesn't bark on track.  He WILL stop a hog.  Once you get in there and catch the hog.  If you don't catch him quick he is gone after another one.  He has the MOST bottom I have ever seen in a dog.  We got on a race this summer and this hog cut a lot of dogs down.  He was still in there on the hog and when I got there he was in there baying away.  His guts were hanging out and I started panicing.  We caught the hog (red hog about 185 pounds with some daggers) and I got him to the vet asap.  I could go on and on but he is my kind of dog.  This is what I expect and will breed for in my dogs.
    

sounds good, how is he bred?  Will he stay on a hog 8-10 hours if he had to?  How does he handle?

I just want to say that it was not my intent to offend anyone with my posts today ;D believe it or not...I just have different opinions than some people on the board.  It is hard enough to produce great dogs, and I just don't believe they can be mass produced with the same consistency..

The Truth about Senorita . . . I purchased Senorita from Wright in Sept. 2008.  The reason I bought her is because I had bought 4 pups from Robert Benson, started them on cattle young, and like them up to that point.  The mother and father of all those pups came from Wright.  So I called Wright and aked him to breed her to Bounty Buckskin and send her to me bred.  As soon as she got here she started getting sick.  We got 9 days straight of rain, and she got mucous, runny eyes, fever and lost alot of weight.  It was probably due to coming from a dry environment to a rainy humid environment, however I will say that she was in excellent health when Wright sent her.  She had 11 puppies and only 5 lived, but those 5 pups were healthy.  I sold 2 and kept 3.  At this point I had not tried to work her on anything yet.  When she got well and got her weight back, I took her to pen some cattle.  She would NOT WORK.  Even when the other dogs were circling, baying, bunching cattle, all she would do is run out and booger-bark for a few seconds and then run back behind the 4-wheeler or horse.  I tried her several times over the next few months and she flat out would not work.  I never tried her on hogs in a pen or the woods, so for that part I couldn't say.  I called Wright and expressed my concern, and he DID offer to refund my money.  However, a cousin of mine told me he would like to have the bitch and breed her, so I sold her to him for what I paid for her.  He had full understanding that I was not pleased with her as a WORKING DOG, but she may produce good dogs.  He bred her to Rio Concho, but sold her before she whelped.  He used my screen-name to post her for sale, but used HIS phone number.  I had nothing to do with the sale.  However, several people called me wandering why she was for sale, and I told everyone of them that she was not working.  That didn't seem to concern anyone who called, so maybe they knew something I didn't?  I told them they needed to call the man who owned her and he would be honest with them about her.  I know that he told several people who called him the same thing I told them.  The next man that bought her knew what she WAS and WAS NOT, but he stated he would try her as a brood female ONLY, based on her breeding and what she had produced, so I guess everyone was happy.  In other words, there was nobody screwing anybody else over on the deal.  I don't know what happened to her after that.  As for the 3 pups I kept off her, I gave one away to a friend and kept the other 2.  Those 2 pups stayed in the water bowl all time.  They fought the water bowl, turned it over, stuck their heads completley under water, etc.  They were not really old enough to start working anything seriously, but I just didn't like them because they made a mudhold out of my pens and you had to constantly keep filling up water buckets.  I was going to put them down, but my cousin said he would take them and try them on cattle when they got older.  I stayed mad at them anyway, so I let him have them for free.  He got tired of filling up water buckets too, lol, and he sold them to a man from WACO, TX when they around 9 months old.  He told the man the only reason he was selling them is because of the "getting in the water" problem, and this was the 100% truth.  I know this because I was standing there when he told the man.  As for the pup I gave to a friend, he called me and told me that she stood in the water bowl all day, to the point that the hair fell off her legs and her legs and feet stayed infected.  Now this is the 100% truth concerning Senorita.  I haven't added anything to it, or left anything out.  The facts are . . I was not pleased with her, but that doesn't mean she hasn't produced good dogs and maybe I don't know enough about genetics/breeding to know what I DID or DIDN'T have.  The man I bought her from did offer to make it right.  I hope whoever bought her has good luck with her and gets some good dogs out of the deal.             

  I bought Rita and am very happy with her.  It's really weird because after she dried up from the Concho litter I put her on cattle with my male dog.  She took to it like a duck to water.  It took her a bit to warm up to me.  Yellow dogs can be funny and very well may not work for everyone.  I have some of the Concho pups and am very pleased.  I haven't seen any of this water stuff you are refering too.  In fact, one of the Concho pups I kept back bayed a hog in the pen the first time it saw one.  I beleive it was like 6 months old.  Friends of mine got the other two and so far so good.  She is real finicky on what she eats.  I just take some wheat germ oil and put it on her food and she chows down.  I just bred her to male dog of a friend of mine and she had 11 pups.  So far she has raised 5 and I am okay with that.  I bought her like I said for my own use and not to sell pups.  I am not interested in the money I could make.  I am just interested in building my own kennel for my own use.  I am very pleased and happy that I was fortunate enough to get Rita.  All I can say is she will never leave here and have no problem showing her progeny whenever to anyone.  These dogs are bred to work and have done just that.  I don't know very many of those that have posted on this topic.  Who is redriverslim?  Are you and your cousin the ones that sold the dog to Scott?  With all the legal issues right now concerning dogs?
         

I have never produced a pup that wouldn't bay...especially at 6 months old...but that is a far cry from being a hog dog..

I guess all this talking and bs is getting nowhere. If you want to know what Randy does with his dogs and how they are worked, breed, and what his experience is call him. You may not like what he has to say and he may invite you to meet him somewhere, but you will get the answeres you are looking for instead of all this argument just for arguments sake.

I think everyone said what they had to say three times over... time to move forward now. Y'all got anymore questions or concerns take it up in private.