EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Found pretty good article with vidio on New York Times about coyote hunting with greyhounds.
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/04/26/sports/1247467638442/coyote-vs-greyhound-one-man-s-sport.html?ref=sports
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/sports/26greyhounds.html

That is the kind of slanted article that results in legislation being pursued to ban the sport. It points out injuries to the dogs, the fact that the man carries no water on his truck for his dogs, likens it all to dogfighting, and brings to light the fact that coyotes help keep the rodent population in check.

I want to call the Times and let them know that I found the slant on the article offensive and ask them if they have ever stood by and watched as a calf bawls while a coyote rips his intestines out of him as his mother tries in vain to ward off the yotes. Rats and mice my arse, yotes are bad for fawns, ground nesting birds, and domestic livestock among other things. They have a place in the world and they don't need radical extermination, but they do need control.

Jackass AR folks.

Cheers
M

Yep, we need more coyotes, bears, eagles, and oh yeah OBAMA's.. that'll make this country better.

The biggest kicker is that article reached hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who now probably have a poor judgement of coyote hunting. Next it will be ban the sight hounds and save a coyote. HSUS was behind that article, you can almost guarantee it. They were even mentioned in the article as if they were some sort of authority! My tail is still red over this. I know I should get over it, but it still makes me mad.

Cheers
M

I agree it was biased.

i grew up in a "shag wagon"  thats what the hunters call there rig.
 my dad raised grey hounds back in the 70's and when i was about the size of those little guys in the truck.  i would hiss the dogs and  pull the cable to drop the door to let a set of dogs out.  was a load of fun. 
 im shure some wack job could twist the video around but i would say that guys dogs are taken pretty good care of from the looks of his pack.

I thought the same thing about the dogs when I saw the video, When I was reading the article I was expecting to see some banged up dogs but that wasnt the case.

I thought the dogs looked good too, and the author probably had to really manipulate the story to make it seem really bad for them (no water, cuts, etc).

Cheers
M

yeah i want ot go coon trapping one day in D.C. lol ;D ;D ;D ;D

Though it may be a little biased, is the story wrong? Based on what I've seen from hog doggers, the descriptions sound pretty accurate. Cut kit - yes, water - maybe not if there are creeks around, scarred dogs - heck yes from head to toe.

They didn't talk much about how destructive coyotes can be, they didn't get in to the role dogs play in pest control until the end, but the hunter himself keeps calling it a sport. The problem is, hurt and killed dogs aren't sporting, and I think it opens up a can of worms when people call any sort of hunting an "outdoor sport." It sounds flippant to those who aren't involved, like taking a life is just the same as tackling a football player, and I think the reverse is true as well. Calling it a sport fosters a weekend warrior attitude where people don't respect what they are doing. After all, a dog is not a soccer ball or a baseball bat, they shouldn't be thrown in the back of the truck and ignored until the next game.

But journalists are word people, they are gonna take it literally. If you call it a sport, they are going to look at it in a sporting context and realize things don't mesh. Personally, as someone who has been in the media, I completely understand why the full story doesn't get told. A reporter can only report what they see, and if hunters don't make a real effort to show them why utlizing dogs is important, all they will see are the tough conditions and injuries. And yes, it is the responsibility of the hunters to make it blatantly obvious, newsrooms are run on a paper thin budget these days and reporters will get fired if they spend too much time digging in to every nook and cranny of a lifestyle piece.

The truth is, animal rights activists are well versed in media relations, hunters are not. It's just like legislative issues, the outspoken and organized group has influence while the naive group is easy to misinterpret or ignore. This article should just be one more wake up call.

ive hunted coyotes by way of greyhounds all my life   nothin wrong at all about it   i say if u dont like the way we do things in the south go north   i aint gonna quit huntin dogs

if you don't like greyhounds, don't go north either. I grew up in south dakota, and the greyhound hunters are alive and well there too, along with Triggs, Goodmans, and Julys.  My uncle had a nice pack that he ran coyotes with.  definately not a southern thing.

I liked this quote from the greyhound man......“Probably 99.9 percent of the people that’s going to protest it never been, don’t have an idea of what a coyote is or what a greyhound is,” Hardzog said. “To me, they don’t even have a right to draw an opinion. They can pass all the laws they want to, but the good Lord is going to do all the judging.”

That is the whole deal in a nutshell right there!!!

Come on... really... there are long doggers and lurcher men all over kansas, nebraska, wyoming... this is not a north vs south issue. This is about hunters needing to learn to be media savy in a media driven age and society.

All we need to do is be honest without being brash. We should all take a lesson from the N.T.A., they are doing it exactly right. They make no apologies, they don't hide the truth, they address the common concerns of those who don't hunt/trap, and have articulate and scientifically minded experts explain the realities in clear terms:

http://www.nationaltrappers.com/video/Destroying%20the%20Myth.mp4

The anti's will always we be there, we can't control that. But we can control our own behavior. The media can be an ally if approached correctly... the problem is that hunters usually approach the media and respond to media in unproductive or even self destructive ways.

The media can be an ally if approached correctly...  :laugh: :laugh:


the problem is that hunters usually approach the media and respond to media in unproductive or even self destructive ways.  ???

I think that's a little broad there, Some hunters maybe and what do you mean "usually" come on man your slamming your own crowd there, it's the minority not the majority that make us look bad. You can forget the Media as a whole EVER being on our side so long as liberal colleges train and educate the majority of those who find employment in said fields most are urban raised and think milk is made at the store and meat comes from tree's.

I am not attacking you man but I have not seen it that way at all where I live maybe it's different where you live, but I won't be caught bad mouthing " hunters "

I think we have tried crawling long enough and it's time we stand up and fight these people, to me buttering them up sounds like Obama's tactic's with terrorist.. we have tried diplomacy with those behind such slamming and they don't want to talk man they want us to STOP that's there position BAR NONE. You will never defeat them by throwing other hunters under the bus

JMO

Waylon, I think u are dead right man. i am sick of bowing down and being politically correct with these folks.  Plain and simple, it aint done no good so far. Its gonna come down to a line drawn in the sand in this country and I know what side I am on and whether they cross over or not dont matter to me, frankly I never did get along with these warp minded folks anyway.

waylon i agree completely it is what it is we are what we are and as far as im concerned hunters as a whole have nothing to hide nor should we have to hide anything nor are we doin anything wrong

Right on cue rolleyes

Calling a spade a spade is not bashing hunters. It is giving the community a much needed dose of reality. Because when legislation gets passed banning your passion, all the come-and-take-it BS won't get you anywhere but fined, jailed or with a yard full of empty chains because your dogs are confiscated. Or maybe you'll escape that fate and keep hunting but you'll be doing so as a poacher. Is that the sort of legacy you want to pass on to your kids and grandkids? Sneaking around and breaking the law because when you had the chance to rise above and make a difference, you decided to give the media and legislators a big F you?

Yes, animal rights activists are the minority, but so are dog hunters. The majority of people don't fall in to either camp and are too apathetic to care. It will come down to which minority can work the system correctly.

But you probably shouldn't trust me. I grew up in Chicago and went to a liberal top 20 university and work in the media and think meat grows on trees. Obviously someone with my sullied credentials couldn't possibly form their own opinion or put their skills to use defending dog hunters. Guess it's time to pack up my hog dog and move back north and make websites for PETA.

Well you go do it your way and i'll do it mine, Lord knows the Deplomacy is working GREAT so far ;)

( But you probably shouldn't trust me. I grew up in Chicago and went to a liberal top 20 university and work in the media and think meat grows on trees. ) I don't  ;)

Guess it's time to pack up my hog dog and move back north and make websites for PETA. ( Whats that all about :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( )
 
  By the way I am not looking to get into a pissing match with you, I was not talking to you. To me you showed your true colors in the post back when the whole muslim thing got blew up on here and then shut down. So if you don't like my opnions sorry for you, You have your belief's and way of life, I have mine I am not gonna eat tofu, go green or crawl around asking a group of people who call me there enemy if we can work it out. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN AND THEN I AM OUT OF THIS POST... THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH,TALKING,OR COMING INTO A AGREEMENT. THEY WANT YOU TO STOP KILLING ANIMALS THEN EATING THEM PERIOD :o.OPEN YOU EYE'S AND SEE WHATS GOING ON AROUND YOU. THE MEDIA IN LARGE IS THERE BEST WEAPON ;)

God Bless

i agree with both sides to a point   i will not bow down to anybody about my hunting  ask the city of geronimo ok 

I think this misses the point. I gave a real life example where the diplomacy HAS worked ??? What major inroads have been made, what hunting methods or opportunities have been saved by hunters being arrogant, antagonistic, or acting entitled? None.

The NTA has made major legal/political headway in keeping trapping related issues off the chopping block, and that video they made exemplifies why their approach actually works, not in theory, but proven in real life. TBL is right... thumping your chest and proclaiming "I'm not gonna take it anymore!" might make you feel better for five minutes, but it's self destructive to our way of life, because long after the "I'm not belly crawlin' for no one" rhetoric was worn thin, the anti's will still be playing to win, and we'll be too busy blaming them to look in the mirror and realize it's our own @#$% fault for not playing to win ourselves.

The Beagler's alliance and several other hunting advocacy groups just successfully won a major battle against the anti's on the proposed ban on coyote dog training pens in Indiana. They won the battle by being SMART, by being DIPLOMATIC, and by using the system to their advantage.

Nothing is 100%, you'll always win some and lose some. But the diplomacy appraoch has and does work for hunting issues more often than not when done right, it's a proven fact.

And I am not throwing any hunters under the bus!!! I'm a licensed hunter, a licensed trapper, a field trial judge, I've worked in conservation professionally, I've taught hunter ed, I've taught National Archery in the Schools programs, I've worked with law enforcement, political bureaucrats, journalists and with media consultants. I'm a dogger that has actually seen the machinery... from the inside... I'm just telling you how it works, and how we can win using that machinery instead of always assuming it's a lost cause and that it's always the "enemy".

Both the media and the political process CAN be used as tools for our side. Why? How? It's simple, again TBL is right. We and the Anti's are both very small minorities. We don't have to eat tofu, and we don't have to convert the Anti's to our side. All we have to do is focus on the MAJORITY, on John and Jane Q Public and the politicians that 'represent' them.

The obvious truth is that the average person isn't a hog dogger, but the average person does eat meat. They're not hunters, but they're also not anti's... most people are just reasonable folks just trying to get by... meaning they don't have strong feelings for or against either side. So if we do what the NTA has done, and instead of simply throwing up our hands and saying, "we can't use the media, the media is the anti's weapon against us" we should realize that a good knife cuts both ways. We CAN follow the example of the NTA and use the media to support our cause and win the battle of ideas for average America.

We can beat the anti's, but we'll only beat them by turning it around on them, by fighting smarter than they do on both the public opinion and legislative fronts. If we're going to succeed on those fronts, we're going to have to stop with the posturing and shallow "don't tread on me" rhetoric. Obviously, we're inevitably going to have some blowhards among our ranks, and it's a free country and anyone can choose to go that route. But the blowhards won't be the ones saving our heritage and our way of life. Instead it's going to be those of us that have the wisdom to look around, and see the societal landscape for what it is (not what we wish it was) and actually get to work on learning how to use media campaigns, political lobbies, and grass roots popular support efforts to OUR advantage. That's how it works. You simply have to make a choice. Choose not to fight to win, and be left holding the (empty) bag. Or choose to accept that you don't have to like it and you don't have to agree with it, you just have to choose to be willing to work the system.

That was a real good post. too bad most people won't see it since its tucked away in this obscure thread in in general discussions. The anti's definitely have better organization, visibility in heavily populated big market urban areas, and a lot of funding. Even though it is two smaller minority groups fighting each other, unless you have a "NRA" type organization that has numbers, money, and visibilty, on our side, it definitely seems like it will be a much harder fight.  Grassroot campaigns do work, but we need more of the highly motivated and highly vocal volunteers it takes to help get a solid backbone of support built, and maybe I am wrong about this, but that is one thing I do think is lacking within the dog hunting community.  Seems like most hunters are more the "don't tread on me rhetoric" kind of guys and not the kind of people that are going to volunteer to work the "machinery of the system" which is the only way laws and general public opinion are changed.