EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

can the dogo be fixed within its own gene pool?

here is how i see it-they are too big
                          lots of health problems
                          not enough nose and hunt
                          dont catch and hold well
                          slow maturing
                          cost way tooooo much
                         
thats just a start,now if you have a good one good for you.



the breed standard is a problem imo not allowing color is the cause of the ear/eye/skin problems

i believe an outcross is needed myself or 2......look at all the breeds used in the dogo-lol

i have my ideas but dont realy care i dont and wont hunt dogos anymore,had 5 diferent ones and hunted with 10-15 others...dont care to be knocked down or have my leg broken by 2 or 3 big dorks running back down the trail playing and not hunting,now you tell me has that happened to you or not?lol


i dont give a crap about purebred dogs as you can tell...i do give a crap about dogs that get'r done right now!!!!!



if your with me??? what breed/s would you use to fix the problems if it could even be done?                                   

it seems this thread is dead before it has really started as you have already made up your mind as to waht the dogo is and isn't.

1.i've never been knocked down by a dogo, everyone that ia hve been around leads great. when i have been around dogos they have been used as lead in catchdogs so they aren't "running around playing".

2.i've only been around one dogo that flat out wouldn't catch every other dogo i've been around hears a bay and hauls a** to the bay and is caught solid when we get there.

3.i've seen two blue eyed dogos(both could hear fine and were great catchdogs) and none of the other ones have had any health problems.

4.they are slow maturing, but the rule of thumb with a lot of catahoula's is they aren't truly ready for the woods until over a year. nothing wrong with a slow maturing dog.


5.there is nothing you or i can do to bring teh cost down. so that is a moot point.

6.my dogo runs about 75lbs more or less, probally less. the dogos i have been around area  touch smaller tahn other peoples but they catch just as good and probally with more speed adn agility.

i there is enough breeds already in the dogo that they don't need any other breeds in them. i would say that because teh breed is relatively new that there aren't enough lines to outcross and give teh dogs good hybrid vigor. the more tehy are linebred and inbred then OUTCROSSED to other lines teh stronger teh breed will get.

the problem is that takes some dedicated people that are willing to cull hard and be willing to go to other people to strengthen their line by going with compltely unrelated dogs. this will be a long time coming becasue this takeds peple willing to farm out dogs and be willing to stud for free and swap gyps for free.  why do you thik the pit bull is such a stout line of dogs? because the old timers had 5-6 friends that they shared dogs with. they all culled hard adn they made breedings for free becasue tehy were trying to establish great dogs. they swapped gyps for free adn they swapped pups for free. when teh dogo breed does this i truly believe they will see their breed get stronger. most of your dogo breeders want big money for their pups because they made an investment so they have to get their money back. i don't knock this, i totally understand this point of view. i believe that if several dogo breeders were to get together and get several different strains of dogos and then work with each other to cull, test and breed their different strains i bet you will see a more uniform and stronger breed genetically.

Man sorry to hear about all of your bad luck if you dont mind me askin where did you get your dogos?
I have had mine for a couple of years and never had any problems I have had pits my whole life and they have always worked but would have to cull due to them always wanting to fight and then the ones that made it didnt have alot of wind I guess it is differnt stroks for differnt folks I have seen cat cross that worked really good but I like to have purebred dogs and all of the dogos l have been around have been nasty in the woods and l dont know if l would hunt with out a dogo in my pack ever again but if I would have started out like you and been thru 5 bad ones l can see why you would be pissed and if that would have happened to me  l would look at it a little different but I got a good start with some good people the man I got mine from said if for some reason she did not work for me he would buy her back at what I gave and he stands behind all of his dogs I hope everything works out for you

duece that was well said

at 75 lbs or less you are under the breed standard,a good start but keeping the dogo on a leash how will you ever use the dogo as intended by the brothers and take the dogs forward seems by keeping them leashed you do the breed no justice

This is what I was saying, the dogs are being patterned after bulldogs and not hunted the way they were developed. some of the things they do are probably b/c they arent being hunted the same. So is it really a "Dogo".

Who cares if the dog is not being hunted the way it was originally bred, times evolve, The dog is a tool for us hunters not the other way around. I use mine as a lead in cd and it loves its life. At least we are hunting them and not showing them.

This thread is going to get someone banned from ethd if were not carefull. Big nasty, to answer the only relevant factual question you posted I would cross it to a ridgeback or the right cur/hound.

My opinion is "If it Aint a pit it aint shyt" lol i got buddies that wanna spend that cash on a dogo just cause they can and i laugh an break out my 65lbs full blooded free pit bull that would love to die catchin a hog an tell them have fun spendin 500+ on a dogo that could be killed the first time you hunt it ... hog huntin is a gamble you never know if your gunna walk every dog out the woods again and a catch dog is a ruff animal to own i never have understood why people want a catch dog but wanna cry when it gets cut up or killed its part of it you live you learn free dog is the best dog in my eyes they will all hunt you just gunna work with them an put the time an effort into them dogs an they will meet you in the middle kinda off subject but again "If it aint a pit it aint shyt " the end   ;D

My experience with the dogo is limited but I have hunted with a few and found them to be lacking when it come to courage.  I watched a pair get their a$$e$ whipped and quit by one boar that my pit later caught solo.  If the pits are better catch dogs and the curs are better strike dogs why own a dogo?  Rcd may be the place for a dogo but I think the breeders need more courage that the current dogo does not have.

However, just like most hunters of other breeds, no one agrees on what to look for in a hunting dog. A family developed those dogs with the same goals in mind. Most people dont even breed for the traits the Martinez family selected for. These dogs are supposed to have nose and hunt as well. Add in the amount of money dogos go for without having to have those qualities I just dont see any cooperative efforts happening. Too much for a few isolated dedicated breeders who hunt to fix b/c people who get any dogos from those folks are going to take those dogs and breed it to a cat, pit or Ab or whatever to get what they want out of it. So the pure dogos dont get reproduced and passed along to maintain their traits as a breed. That's my honest opinion.

Not another Dogo thread  :'(

Haha  8)

i'm sorry that many of you have been behind such bad dogos. like i said i've had one dogo that i personally bought that would not catch. the dogo i have now came from catchdogs parents. i've seen many of my dogo's siblings in the woods and they are great catchdogs. these dogos if we wanted to could be let off lead and they will find and catch hogs for us, problem is we do care about our dogs so we don't want them caught 500yds away while we are navigating through vines and briars trying to get to them.

quite honestly i don't care what the dogo was originally bred for i paid my money for the dog and i will use it as i see fit. if you want to get into that type of thing, pits were not bred for hog catching they were specifically bred to fight other dogs until one of them quit. so YOU my friend aren't using the pit as it was originally bred for. if you are breeding pits that will not fight until death then you have a cull on your hands, plain and simple.

i bred pits for over 15yrs and one of the most established line of pits was founded off of around 5-6 people that had the same strain of dogs and did as i stated earlier. it CAN be done. just so you know those 5-6 people didn't always agree on what was a good dog or not but when ever they crossed their dogs or swapped dogs they made sure THAT particular dog was what ALL of them felt was an exceptional dog. the dogs that were on their yard they did with as they pleased but any dog that was 'shared' between them had to be viewed and agreed upon by all the people in the circle.

if you don't believe me research flloyd boudreaux, bobby 'bullyson' hall, maurice carver, and mr elliot(i forgot his first name but he is the founder of the elliots six bits line of dogs). the people that worked along side with them aren't as well known and i know them personally so i will not put their names on the net, just know that i speak the truth.

Your frustration reminds me of myself a long time ago when I was trying Catahoula after Catahoula!
I was down on those dogs for years and years until I hunted with some guys that had sure enough good ones!
I get on this board and I see other folks getting it done with them just fine also. I just never got a hold of the right ones is all.
Luck like that can sure leave a bad taste in your mouth about breed. I know!

There are really good dogos out there and there are really bad dogos out there. Even when the brood stock will not hunt, some of the pups will make hunters and vise versa. It is a young breed and it does have its problems, I hate the white coat, but watching two male dogos totaly control a hog that would carry away a couple of pits can make almost anyone a believer. You just have to understand that there are good lines out there.

Big nasty,

I would say just start over with a new breed. It's not working out and you'll waste more precious time and money trying to fix em with crosses. If you gotta cross its a failed project. Get a bulldog. No wanting for courage there and you be breeding them exactly for what they were intended, and use them the way they were intended. Pits true callin aint in the woods, and they like to fight hogs too. Cut your losses. You could end up breeding just to get your money back. Thats not gonna do anyone any good.

Man u started aaa wind storm lol don't have any pure dogos but am happy with my dogo ridgeback pups and at 4 months they show a good hateward toward pigs and these two breeds are both slow maturing but these seem like they will be ok.  The dogo that my two are out of will hunt find a pig and hold by his self they use him as a one out dog

WOW rolleyes

I had a pit that i got from a boy on this board that was exactly that "shyt"! She would BAY ???!!!!! With that being said i dont think all pits are "shyt" just like all dogo's can't be lumped in that group.

To the fella that said a lead in Dogo is not being used correctly an a injustice is being done to the breed using them this way..........so if i have a hard catching cur dog that i use as a catchdog am i doing the dog wrong by using it as a catch dog????????

Forgot to add, if your running one style of dog for everything? You will need to have division of labor to use a bulldog. So you would need some good curs. I know of people who have some real nice ones you could hit the ground running with.

I believe you missed the point....

Come on fellas.....Ford, Dodge, Chevy......single cab, ext. cab, 4 door, gasoline or diesel.
If it works for you, use it, if not, try something else. To each his own.

Dodge 4 door diesel ;D  Tried them all, kept the ones that work :o

One thing I have noticed, the haters are always a bunch of Broke A$$  hillbillies bragging about thier free dogs and complaining about the price of a Dogo. Our group drop those Pits like flies! very few dont have a hole in them somewhere. Either they couldnt run across the street without having a heat stroke or they have to try and kill every dog in the pack before the night is over. We just culled another one this weekend, a good little catch dog but she attacked three different dogs in two hrs. and two of them were 8 month old pups. That first post....give me a break very littleof any of that crap was true. Just go to the pound and get you a bunch of free pits and maybe one out of 10 will make you a good dog! I dont like Catahoula's, at all, never seen one that would hunt but I dont get on these threads and bash them and ask what we need to do to the breed to make it like I want it to be. Im not a hater, they are obviousley working for a bunch of hog hunters, who am I to tell someone else what they dont have. If you dont like them dont hunt with them! If you cant afford one, get a job! O0

raider, are all yours dogos? or aren't some 1/2 dogo x 1/2 johnson ab?

Im a proud North Alabama Hillbilly and I do "not" take offence at this statement! ;D

I think it has more to do with the point of diminishing returns than it has to do with someones ability to pay.

Mine are crosses with AB but this isnt about me its much bigger than that. I have a couple of buddies that own pure bred dogos from the PPC line and they are fine dogs. I like everything about them. DFWHogHunter (Chops) his Eloy dog I would put that dog up against any CD, He is fast, smart, No back up, catches ear every time, dont fight the hog, dont get tired. He is an awesome dog. Makeemsqueel has a little gyp about a yr old, same way. I crossed mine and I got just what I wanted. They wouldnt suit everyone, they are BIG about 130# They are the best handeling dogs I have ever owned, they have more manners than any I have seen anywhere. They know what they are there for and they do it! Very quietly and directly, I can catch a 300 # Boar with them and bring them home and my grandkids can ride them or grab thier tail and they will pull them through the yard and you cant make one of them fight. Whats not to like??????

I believe in most cases you are right, it just get a little frustrating watching one thread after another of all the negativity about Dogos. I have one thats 16 mths old and has probably caught close to 350 hogs if he gets killed tomorrow, I got my money's worth ;)

Dang its getting heated in here >:D ;D,  . . . . . i Like pit's myself But yes they do have there faults such as the temperment, history and wind. They def. dont lack to ability to "GO GET IT", I know my pit's will defintley fullfill whatever is asked and die doing it if necesarry. I dont know alot about dogos and im sure they are good dogs. But like any Breed i think you can get sum good ones and you can get some bad ones i know i have seen some pits that straight Balled up when a pig got ahold of them. HERES A VIDEO OF SOME DOGO'S GETTIN IT IN WITH A COUGAR!!
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Unfortunately, you have some Dogo breeders and enthusiasts to thank for that. They Dogo has been hyped up to be this great white unicorn, that is the end all be all of hog dogs. When in reality, they are just another working dog.

I've had a Dogo,  AB/Dogo, Pit, AB, and a Pit/AB cross. I don't have any allegiance to any of them. I like to think I pay more attention to the individual than the breed. And because I have no preference, I can be objective about them too. I do have a "type" that I prefer, and I have seen specimens of all the above mentioned breeds fit that type.  

Pick ANY breed and you will find excellent specimens, and sub par ones. You will find people who have the breeds best interest at heart, and you will find the puppy mills too.

It just happens that the Dogo has been the discussion of the week...

Cant we all just get along lol
all l can say if you dont like them dont buy one
see that was a easy fix
sounds  to me like with all this pent up energy we all need to hit the woods and do some hunting l hope we can all agree on that

Well put :)

Boar Ninja, I'm not a hill billy but I didn't care about the "BROKE ASS HILLBILLY " remark....

Back in the 1980's I tried to breed airedales for the all around hog dog and finally through in the towel. My conclusion was that they hunted but not as good as a  mtn cur and they caught but not as good as a pit. The 2 things going against me were that there were no airedale breeders that bred for hog hunting that could help my program out and the long coat was an over heating problem in the summer.

IMO, part of the Dogo problem is that it is a young breed and a lot of different breeds went in to make the DOGO. So, because it is a young breed some traits will pop up that are from this breed and at other times from another breed. That is why so many different hunters are saying different things about them. Some catch others are rough.

If I ever buy one it will be for catching and I will wait until the breeder has proven consistantly that he has a line of catching DOGOs. I'm not saying that there aren't any now but I want as many variables on my side to up my chances of getting what I want. I do not want to feed a pup for a year just to have to cull it....


When the public (back yard breeders)gets a hold of the Dogo the price will come down and I think that these dogs are so big that after a while the public in general will not want to feed a dog of this size. They will be labeled a bulldog breed....

if i dont like a breed i dont even thaink about it i thank about what i have and make thim better

well yall i am going out back and turn my loud mouth plott louse and run some river hogs hope he can find one and my little bull can git him caught ninja i will post pix of what i get later  ;D

x2 I need to show yall some good dogos/straight catch/good lungs,fast/can be kenneled with a kitty cat  ;)

So, you're saying the Dogo as a breed doesn't have holes ??? ;D


You hunt with that guy?

It would seem from your posts that you've had exposure to a limited number of dogos, and they have been impressive. I have seen some real good ones myself, but I've seen way more culls.

By the way, I'm definitely not a "hater", I hunted with dogos exclusively as catchdogs from 2002-2006.

Paul Im not going to touch the dogo debate as I have very limited expierence with the breed. I see where you say you have culled several pitts because of fighting and your dogos are big loving dogs. Its not really fair to compare the pitts that yall are hunting at full grown dogs to your dogos that were raised with your family and around your dogs.

Look guys and gals Dogos are just like any other breed you can have good ones and bad ones you might have  a yard full of hog dogs what ever breed you might have but how many are just top self strike dogs out of all the dogs and pups you have ever had and what you call top self might be junk to some one else I like the old saying one mans junk is another man treasure since I have been on ethd there has alot of bad press on the dogo and dogo vs pit all I can say find a breeder that has the proof to back up his blood line and that will stand behind his blood line even then some things are out of our control there are alot of breeds of dogs out there I dont care for but who am I truth be told I love me some yella dogs but that is me I have said this before it is hard to beat a good pit but I would not trade my dogo for anything and I paided good money for her and she was worth every pennie because there is nothing I cant do with her but I did my home work when I was lookin for her and found someone that could show me where she came from and that was all I needed and she is all that and a bag of chips lol  8)

Lookin forward to them! Good luck!

Yeah it can and here's how you can personally help!

too big - yeah I would definitely go with 80-90 pounds or less for males, for females 70-80 lb range. the bigger heavier ones I have seen aren't as athletic and I imagine overheat faster. I read on a dogo forum though that they just changed the breeding standard and are trying to go for smaller more hunt worthy dogos and away from the big huge worthless ones

lots of health problems - For the skin and hearing issues I too think that some color would probably help that and going away from larger size should mean less hip problem and other problems that real big dogs get.

not enough nose and hunt/don't catch or hold well/slow maturing - breed only good dogos from good bloodlines that best and most consistenly display the traits you desire most in your dogs and hunt and cull hard just like you would do for any dog breed- duh!

cost way tooooo much - here's how you can help with this one. buy a bunch of good dogs from good bloodlines spend a bunch of money to hunt and health test them. breed them and do the same with the pups. then sell them to the rest of us for really cheap and take a loss. if you do this enough eventually your good dogo bloodline will be readily available to everyone and you can be the one that set the standard for selling them low, but you will have the satisfaction of knowing you helped the dogo breed.


OR try to take an inconsistent shortcut and cross to a different breed. From some of the feedback I've been getting apparently I have recently been having some good results with a dogo blue lacy cross.

You misunderstood me I say all breeds have holes in them somewhere!

The best catch dog I have ever seen was 1/2 Catahoula 1/2 Pitt. Im not hateing on any of them. I like any of them that do what they are supposed to. I am not a true blue Dogo guy! I have seen 4 or 5 and they were very good. I have certainly seen more Pits and AB's that were good CD's. It is just hard for me not to respond to a Stupid Comment! The people who pay all that money for Dogo's must want one, who cares???? If they dont start as young as a Pitt, who cares? We have a little black Pit gyp that will  stand on her back legs and fight with a hog, she will finally catch it but she gets cut bad almost every time we turn her in to a boar hog, she is stupid but has plenty of heart, her heart and lack of sense will get her killed soon. I dont hate on pits because of a few bad ones we have owned. I just think it is silly to get on here and bash something you dont have and dont want. JMO

We have raised plenty of pits and I have found they are more prone to fight another dog than the others we have raised. I believe alot of both breeds dont make it for one reason or another. I believe the AB's have a great and predictable nature, I also like a big dog. It may sound silly but I like white catch dogs.....lol

O' really!

A 2010 thread, REALLY  ???

why is the dogo thing still going can someone please stop it...........i hope yall r as interested in the upcoming election as you r in a white dog

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$&$. As long as this is the main motivation for most breeders it can't be fixed. The average dogo breeder ain't gonna miss a $ to better the breed. The ideal dogo seems hard to consistantly achieve. That's a lot of traits to cram into a single dog. They cost a LOT and its hard for the average man or woman to be able to afford enough good dogs to breed right.

Guess there will be a dogo bashing every other day??? Stop caring about breeds that you dont even hunt anymore....man I had an ex- wife that tried starting drama everyday....

well i have to say its culls in every breed. about 90 % of the time its not the dog's fault that it is a cull. it is more our fault then anything. when i got into hog hunting. i can say i f*** up some dogs. that if they had got into better hands they would have been some good s.o.b. with that said this is not saying yall are f**** up dogs. but i know some people can say the same. if you dont learn from your mistakes then i would not call myself a dog trainer.

i like to use my dogo how i like to use it , not like two 100 year old argentenian guys ive never met like to use it !  if it fetches ducks then use is as a gun dog !

  yaaawwwwwwnnnnnn !!!!!!!! ain't non of you people hunting   lol

i think the reason they catch so much hell is the price .....  ive culled far more curs and pits than any breed of dog . if the dogo was a $50 dog then less people would abuse the breed by selling duds as pets ! only one to blame for the dogos downfalls are the breeders !  if bmc's went for $5000 then every tom , dick , and harry would be selling them on every street corner , and soon enough the breed would go to crap !

im bored at work , just trying to stir the pot a little bit ! lol

I think there is some dogo bashing because when people pay that much money for a dog, the expectation level is very high. That is only natural. The more you pay, the more you exeect. I would try either a pure pit, a small American bulldog, or a cross of those two breeds. Worked real well in Florida. My guess is you Texas boys would be equally happy. I have also seen some good catch dogs that were either AB or pit miexed with pointer or redbone. Good hunting.

There are breeders out there, that give dogos away to certain types of hunters - for some of us dogo owners, it's not about money at all - it's about picking the right person to do right by the dog.

They are not for everyone, slow maturing, hard headed, and some need a good push when it comes to catching young.
And yes they are big! My male is 97lbs, my female is 85-90lbs - but they are ment to control a hog by themselves - long legs, long neck, and enough weight not to get tossed around to bad. It's just a dog, like every other dog. Some are good some are bad.

My opinion is "If it Aint a pit it aint shyt" lol i got buddies that wanna spend that cash on a dogo just cause they can and i laugh an break out my 65lbs full blooded free pit bull that would love to die catchin a hog an tell them have fun spendin 500+ on a dogo that could be killed the first time you hunt it ... hog huntin is a gamble you never know if your gunna walk every dog out the woods again and a catch dog is a ruff animal to own i never have understood why people want a catch dog but wanna cry when it gets cut up or killed its part of it you live you learn free dog is the best dog in my eyes they will all hunt you just gunna work with them an put the time an effort into them dogs an they will meet you in the middle kinda off subject but again "If it aint a pit it aint shyt " the end   


Amen to that!!!!!
 

Haha, I've never paid for a cd of any kind. Actually Ive only paid for 2 dogs..... Ever and they were full sisters of different litters. I bought the pup sister to my old lead strike dog.

And I only paid for one dog in my life - it was a cur dog, what's the point?

Doesn't mean anything but you have a few friends.

Oh the glorious dogo posts, how we do all love them lol. Like every dog breed you got your good, bad, ugly, and expensive. As long as your happy then nothing else should matter. I love the breed and have been blessed with awesome dogs from the start. My advice to anyone who's getting ready to buy a new dog from any breed is go into it with a business mindset. Expect to spend money do your research and be patient.

My advice is to stay away from those with a "business mindset". They are more interested in lining their pockets than producing solid working dogs.

I meant its your responsibility as a buyer to do your leg work by researching the breed the breeder and so forth. And really if you think about it no matter what anyone one says weather you breed to make money or out of necessity for your own stock everyone will put a price on there dog. Jmo

For those who don't own/ have only been around a few dogos but yet still bash them. Please check out this breeder look at his pictures read his information about his dogs. EDUCATE yourself about the breed. Read the story about his dog "Morocho" who's known worldwide, then tell me the dogo doesn't have the courage of a pit.


 http://www.noresdogoargentino.com.ar/ingles/criadero.htm

Happy hunting with what ever breed you choose.

You should probably take your own advice and educate yourself about gamedogs...

Well it just may be time for this thread to die lol

Don't need to. I'm not here bashing games dogs. Before people talk about a breed they should know more about it other then " oh I hunted with one & it sucked". But thanks for suggestion

 

I didn't say you were bashing gamedogs...but you made a comparison


So, before making the comparison, you should probably follow your own advice...and have the depth and breadth of knowledge required to make such a comparison ;)

Same to the people who say a dogo doesn't have the courage of a pit.

But like I said earlier, happy hunting with what ever breed you like.