EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

This is about one of my catchdogs and this scenario played out over the weekend.  I'm open to any and all opinions.  I will not take a offense to any comments.  The reason I put this up here is because I still consider myself new to the sport (only been dogging about 5-6 yrs) and definately new to owning a catchdog.  We would always bay/shoot until I got my first catchdog about 1.5 yrs ago.  I'm not asking because I'm not sure what to do with the dog.  I like him and I'm gonna keep him but I'm curious to see if my catchdog bar is set lower than others or maybe not. 

Here's the scenario.....I have a catchdog that I've owned since a pup and he is now almost 2 yrs old.  His probably caught 80-100 hogs in his life.  In that time frame he has only had a few minor cuts and one decent poke on his front leg.  This past weekend I sent him in a very respectable boar and it smashed him up real good.  I heard him hit and then heard a dog start screaming bloody murder so we sent in another CD.  While the dogs are fighting the hog about 15 yards away I run to check out the screaming dog and find my CD sitting on butt spinning in circles, screaming like a girl, and looking at his back leg.  I instantly see a huge rip up the front of his back leg, almost in the guts and over the hip.  I grabbed him, looked it over real quick and determined it wasn't life threatning.  I slapped some sense into him real quick and sent him back on to the hog.  He ran right in and caught out until we had it killed. 

Would any of you bulldogs guys consider this dog a cull???  He did quit but he went right back in and helped seal the deal.  I don't consider this dog a soft dog by any means and has never showed any kind of response to pain until this happened. I don't know if he ever had an ear the first time so I don't know if he let go.  I do know that he stopped his pursuit because of his wound.

These two comments leave me questioning the dog. In an ideal world, I don't want a catch dog to think about self preservation.  I have often said the day Tyson quits a hog, is the day he is no longer a catch dog. I haven't been in that position yet, so I can't say how I will feel if it ever actually happens.

BTW,

   I too am interested to hear what some of the more experienced members have to say about this subject.

Im not sure that i would cull him, but i would never go hunting with just him. I have never had a catch dog get cut in the ass or the gut. Just chest and front shoulders. And my dogs dont catch anything but an ear. If that is how he is he might have not even had a chane to catch. I dont believe i would hate him for it if it was that bad of a cut. Jmo

CullBuck,

Would you walk in on the next hog with 100% confidence that dog is going to be caught?

Cheers
M

A dog can get cut there if he hits the ear from head on and the hog is dog-smart. The hog can get his snout under the dog's body and a tusk can hang on the flank or rear leg. This is what got Meat Head in the end. What I believe to be the same hog did Clay's Jug dog two or three weeks later. Luckily that hog is no more.
m

 Cull Buck, while i don't have any more experience that you do. I have to say that our cd's don't seem to have any self preservation. But on the other hand, maybe the hog hit some sort of sensitive nerve or something, since you said that he had never done that before. The only thing that would be in the back of my mind is did that incident put fear in your cd and would he turn loose again and cause you to get cut. Hmmmmm....the trust that a cd will never turn loose is where i get my nerve to leg a big hog. So can you still trust him?

It would be hard to trust him by himelf. I have never seen a bulldog quit a hog unless they were dead. I always like to send in at least 2 catchdogs anyway.

I would not cull him for this one isolated incident.  Every dog is going to have a bad day and hopefully that is all this was is a bad day.  This may never happen again and he could be the best cd you will ever own?  Only time in the woods will tell.  I had a cd I would consider great get thrown 10 ft in the air and when he came back down he didn't go straight for the hog he circled around and got a run at him from the side and caught the ear.  All dogs are different, but prior to this if you thought he was a good cd I would keep him.  If this happens again then I would start looking for a new one.

Just curious, what breed is the catchdog? If it's a APBT then I would consider it a cull. I just expect a certain amount of gameness out of a APBT. Either way, My personal preference is for a catchdog to take the blunt end of the damage and be game enough to hold the hog even over regard for its own self. If you are dead set on keeping the dog, that I'd suggest using it as a back-up and 2nd bulldog. Regardless, if the dog was caught or not when the hog cut him, he was engaged at a "no turn back" point. I'd be just a little leary because I have seen dogs quit before and it just seemed a little easier for them to quit again. I hope this isn't the case with your dog, but I'd hate to see a post on ETHD describing you going in on a beast and your bulldog coming off. It just takes a split second for things to go western.

to simply answer your question...yes your standards are lower than most for a catchdog. i believe everyone that i hunt with would cull that cd if they were "spinning in circles screaming like a girl". the cd is supposed to be the muscle to your pack, that is why we say "we sent in the calvary and it was a SEALED DEAL". they are supposed to seal the deal. having a catchdog that gets hit and hollers like that is like having a bodyguard that hears a gunshot and they take off running and leave the person they were supposed to be protecting. they get paid to put their life on the line for those people. well the cd is "paid" to put their life on the line to catch hogs. when they don't do that they are no longer a cd. as hard as it may be to hear...that my friend is a cull..... :(

As a Bulldog/catchdog, the dog is a cull.

Not being there it makes it hard to say....but with that said it would be a cull in my book.  I am just to slow to even get out of my own way if a CD lets go on me.  If you like the dog use him as a back up CD and nothing more IMHO.

All true bulldog men will say cull, they should never let go with guts hanging out or not.

I personally dont fault you for giving your dog you like a 2nd chance...because if you do, the fact is that it is very possible it could have hit a odd nerve or his sciatic nerve that sent a sharp lighting bolt pain down his leg and out his butt like sitting on coals, thats a strong possibility.

None the less once is an excuse but twice is a cull.
 
The only personal experience i have like this from hunting with cd's for 4 yrs was a solid pit who had caught through severel (8-10) bad cuts alot of which put him out for 4-8 wks and never quit, one day he was caught and a sow came around back and ripped his butt hole down to his ham, he yelled like a girl as well for 5 min. and let go with his butt on the ground ??? He caught great after that, even when cut,  until the heat got him one busted bay many moons ago.  If he had never caught through a cut before that i would have probably given up on him but as it ended up i never saw it happen again. Who knows... let us know how he does next time he gets cut, i could learn something from this since i am a rookie....and dont breed him  ;)

What if you had been in there up close and personal with the hog and your dog did that?
In my opinion he is a cull as a catchdog.

 Cull, a bulldog should never give up and quit. Hit hard and stay on till the end.

Cull. I'd hate to walk in on a bad hog if I had any doubts about my catchdog.

I tell you what, I was hunting behind a buddies pit when it let go and let me tell you I lost complete trust! Let's just say he will be running in to leg on that dog not me!  :-\ But that is a tuff choice!

 Cullbuck,

I have been hog hunting for well over 20 years now and in a lot of ways I am still new to the sport. Especially when it comes to catch dogs. I started out and spent years catching hogs with just curs and a rope for the man hogs. My biggest hog to date was a monster about 17 years ago. I had no catch dog. I legged him backing out of a briar thicket without a dog touching him. No amazing feet though. The hog was completely worn out after 3 and a half hours of baying! I legged him and he fell over in exhaustion. I couldnt even get my hands around both legs so I used both hands around one leg!
After all those years of catch and tie with only 2 good catch dogs, I scaled down and shot hogs mostly for 10 years unless I was hunting with friends. The past 3 years I have been catching hogs again and have had a bad run with catch dogs.
I have not been around a lot of goods catch dogs but I have had a few in my opinion.
I guess I tell you all of this because I have never been 100% confident in a catch dog holding when I went in to leg a big hog. Its not even a requirement for me on the big ones.
Give me a thinking catch dog with some brains. Thats what I require. A dog that will help me catch a big nasty hog and not catch one for me. Give me a catch dog with handle and a desire to please. Self preservation is fine with me as long as he is not willing to sacrifice me! lol.
My standards are a little different with catch dogs because I dont expect them to kill themselves catching a big hog! I would rather them have the brains to help me get it cought in time and live to catch another.
Maybe I am just a little naive when it comes to CD,s but "my" limited experience has brought me around to my way of thinking!
If you cull him I will give him a try! ;D

Took the words right out of my mouth BoarNinja!  Saved me some typing!!! .... but here I go anyways.... ;D

I also prefer a dog that will "help me" catch... dog gets to catchin' by hisself too much and bad things happen...

I also like a CD with a little "self preservation" bred into it...  they defenitely last longer

I'll take a dog that's willing to die when I ask him to... not just because he fees like it...

Obviously, my vote is "you might just have a better dog than you thought Cull Buck!"  ;D

And for the record... I don't trust any catch dog... they're all subject to gettin' shook off with the right hog.

I trust mine better than having a gun in my hand, If I didnt I wouldnt use him. We always use two catchdogs so I would think there is less of a chance of that happening. I will say shook off and turning loose are two very different things!

Good point.

I look at it like this... imagine a professional boxer that's used to gettin' his face knocked in for yrs and yrs... then one day somebody walks up behind him whilst he's in a fight and hamstrings him with a razor blade...

"Why'd he stop boxing????????????"  ..... "he's a fighter... he should have kept fighting"  the crowd said... rolleyes

"new sensation"? .... takes time for most creatures to learn to tolerate pain from unexpected angles...

Once my bulldog gets there all my other dogs jump on and a bulldog that would come lose of a bad boar would get all my dogs wrecked.  Self preservation in a catchdog is unacceptable.  But cudos that he went back in there and caught but he thought about it and it is what it is.  

I agree with BoarNinja and Noah.

I have never owned a "catch til i'm dead" CD. My cur dog that I lost a week ago was the closest I have had to one, but if he got wrecked he would back up until I got there and he would give i another shot. He was smart enough to not take a beating if he didn't have to. Before I had him it was usually just two or three gritty cur dogs, and i've had to play catch dog a few times but hey i'm still alive.
Personally I wouldn't want one that hangs on til it's dead, THEN YOU JUST HAVE A DEAD CATCH DOG!!!!
If it comes down to it i'll give it a try or just shoot the dang hog.

But hey, that's just me talking

It's those ones that won't "hang on till their dead" that you ought to be concerned with. I don't need a "smart" bulldog. It's nice to speculate that the dog wouldn't quit on you in your moment of need...but if they quit once...they'll quit again.

If you're talking bulldogs...lack of self preservation is their defining quality.

I thought we were talking catch dogs but I hear a bulldog will catch one too. ;D

will they i wount 1 he he ;D

like what was said before, getting shook off is one thing, quitting cause of pain is another. quitting cause the cd got hit funny just inn't good enough. i'm not going to say that i would cull him, but he wouldn't be my number 1 anymore. maybe i'm nuts but i want my cd to catch till he's dead. that is his job to catch hogs and hold till i tell him "caught hog". my bay dogs should back up if the hog is too much for him. i don't mind a gritty/smart bay dog. if they can catch the hog GREAT! if that hog is too mean for them i need that bay do to back up and keep him there till the "calvary" gets there. the cd has one job and that is to run to the bay and catch. if the he is able to make it to the hog he needs to catch that ear, snout, jowl and keep him there..if they can't do that then i personally don't need them.

I can respect what you say hear. Most of my buddies feel the same way. Hell, I use to feel the same way. Send me your culls if they cant keep a big hog anchored until they die. I will save you the cost of culling him and Ill give him a try.

for once I agree with leonriverboy. it was the dogs first time getting cut like that, and he made up for it with good effort in the end. keep him in the woods and don't even consider replacing him unless he does it again.

X2

my thing is the next time he does it you may be running in to leg the hog and just as you get there he gets hit wrong and quits on you. then you are looking a pissed off hog that has not dogs on you. now you are up a tree and you can't "slap the sense back into them". there is a reason they call hogs the poors man's grizzly..lol. if i ever get any culls boarninja i'll send them your way...lol...if you have any culls give me a buzz as well...lol

I don't really think its a good idea to hunt with just one catchdog, always use 2. so, even if it did happen again, you don't have to worry about it. i have gritty curs anyways and usually send my catchdogs in from  200-300 yards away so I can't imagine a caught hog becoming uncaught just as I go to leg him. not after he's been caught for over 5 mins cuz even if one catchdog is MIA, you still got 3-4 curs and another catchdog still on him.

Raider I fugured you would agree being as the same sorta thing happened to you recently.

I am with all the folks on the "cull" side,a true catch dogs job is to catch the hog peroid, not get smart and wait for you or what ever,catch and catch till you need him to let go. I also agree if this type of thing happened to the dog or like raiders dog it could happen again at the wrong time and get someone or dogs hurt. If I wanted dogs to wait on me and catch on command I would go back to some old rough azz cur dogs but I enjoy my bulldogs and like them but will cull a quitter.....just my oppinion tho,if a dog suits a man and he is feeding it it all comes down to what the mans own perception of good is and his expectation levels.



X2...


Pretty much what I was typing while you were....if you ever ran into a bay and a CD has decided to quit for what ever reason it ain't a good feeling  :-\  a cut down inable to continue is different than one who quits and the decides to go ahead back in there.

Everyone, thanks for the opinions.  This has been a very interesting read.

In about a month he should be ready to give it a go again so we'll see what happens.  Someone asked if I would be 100% confident going behind him again and my answer would be 100%.  The only reason I still have complete confidence in him is I'm almost positive he never got the ear when he was first cut.  It was a hit, split second scuffle and then whining.  In my hard head, getting smashed and having your back leg dang near half way severed by a big boar (that had obviously been dogged before judging by his torn up ears) and acknowledging the pain is different than catching and letting go because of pain.  When he went back in on this hog it cut thru his vest and gave him a 3" rip on his shoulder.  He never reacted to that cut/poke and was the last dog to come off the hog.  Had he been caught and let go my confidence would be shot.

 

Deal! But I never said that I would cull a catch dog that “would” kill himself keeping a big hog anchored. ;D I just said it wasn’t a requirement as long as he didn’t sacrifice me in the process! ;) This arrangement may not work out as good for you as it will for me. lol

I have never been around a catch dog that I had 100% confidence in. Im sure I will be spoiled to em if it ever happens though. ;)

I can't speak for any other breed of dog but a bulldog should be held to a higher standard just like a linebred cur dog. I will cull every cur dog that I raise off the line I hunt that doesn't live up to that standard. I don't think it should be any different with a bulldog. Years of culling made them what they are and yes of course there are some sorry ones out there and that will never change. The same arguement can be made about bulldogs as it is with good linebred cur dogs. The only way to get consistency and dependability and raise your percentages within a line is to be honest with yourself about them and cull hard. But In the end Cull Buck it's your dog and all that matters is that you are happy with him. I certainly don't blame you for giving him another shot :)

I can support this totally.
The problem I personally have with "Catch Dogs" is that I haven't fully figured out what "my" standard is yet. I will admit that I havent had the same thought process and high standards with CD's as I have with curs. I use to have that "dime a dozen" attitude with them but not anymore.
Keep us updated on him Cullbuck.

I think that since that was his first serious cut he didnt expect it when it happened and didnt understand, it kind of surprised him.  He went back and caught the hog after you got to him and "calmed" him down.  I think he will be ok to keep hunting.

I never cull a dog the first time they do something wrong. My main catch dog came from a buddy that sent her into a bay one time and she didn't catch. The day i bout her, for twenty five dollars, i took her hunting and caught four hogs with her. Just give him another chance. But watch you a$$. I would be sure to take another cd with u.

My question is.....What did you tell him in your pep talk that he gathered himself and went back in? Was it like a Rocky Balboa deal

I went back and re-read your first post Cull buck. I was for some reason thinking this was a 6 year old dog. I missed the part where he was under 2 years old and that changes things a little. I don't think any dog is fully mature until he is over 2 years old, even bulldogs. I still would not like it that he quit but If the dog went back in and caught then I think giving him another shot would be fair.  He would have to earn my trust though..

this topic is good. cull buck has already stated that he is keeping the dog, so no matter we say his mind is made up of the dog. his MAIN question was simply is the dog a cull and are his standards lower than most because he wants to keep the dog...

my opinion is simply that yes the dog is a cull. i could careless if it was his first time seeing a hog or his 1000th time seeing a hog, if a cd has to be "talked" into catching hog after it gets hit hard then it's a cull. the cd has one job..catch a hog no matter what and never let go. this is no different than a regripping dog. most all of us will cull a cd if they are always regripping. what is the difference than this dog?

next yes his standards are lower than mine for what i want in a cd. i want my cd to go to the bay hit on the front end of the hog and nto let go. i don't care if he gets hit hard before he gets to teh ear, that cd needs to be jumping up and running to get to that hog. a hog shaking a dog off or running a dog into a tree to get them off is one thing..long as that dog gets up right then and there and goes back to teh hog. i shouldn't have to slap sense into my cd cause he over there running in circles screaming like a girl...

I think there's too many variables to say for sure.

Yeah, it's easy to sit behind a computer and say, "If it were MY catchdog..." or "...by all means a cull" but in reality who owns a dog that hasn't made a mistake?

Say for instance I have a dog who I consider the best cur dog that ever hunted.  Now you also have a buddy (we all know one) who has a piss-poor dog that he seems intent on always hauling around.  One day that piss-poor dog ups and finds a hog ahead of everything thing else.  Do you start culling curs?

One of my absolute best dogs a couple months ago took a notion that when I turned him out of the box he was going to straight shoot me the finger and crawl under the buggy.  I usually don't do this, but this went on for a few weeks until one day I had enough and he got the raw end of a pretty good switch.  Didn't take long and he got his mind right.  According to what I'm reading, I suppose now he's a cull.

Even with good breeding and goals in mind, dogs are simply not machines.  They think, reason, and make decisions all the time.  If you think you have a perfect dog, just brag on him to someone a little bit then take 'em hunting.

Personally, as (mentally) young as the dog AND being that this dog is 1/2 cur (if the one I'm thinking of) I would definately give him another shot.  If it happens again, then you might have some thinking to do.

x2

Culling is rarely easy, but it is necessary and required.

IMO, I believe the comparison is apples to oranges.


If it's half cur...then, personally, I wouldn't expect as much out of it, as I do out of a AB, APBT, Dogo, or crosses of these 3.

took the words right out of my mouth scott...great post.

x2

I don't think either of those comparisons really apply in this situation.
I do however agree that dogs are not machines.
And like scott said , if the dog is half cur I would not hold him to the same standard and would not consider him a catchdog.

To me a dog that has caught that many hogs, and at that age no matter what breed of catchdog is a cull. But not being there and knowing the full situation I can not say for sure. I would NEVER run him by himself again, and would run no less then two catchdogs at any time. One being him and another sure nuff catchdog. I do not believe in using only one catchdog, but that is my opinion.

I personally would not hunt a cur or cur x as a main catchdog. I could never put all my trust that when things got tight the would be there until the end.

ok ,what kind of dog(breed) is it? sorry if i missed it somewhere

I would heal him up and give him another try before making a judgement. Is he a cull? As you can see in the eyes some he could be but the final say rests in your eyes. Your standards and mine heavily differ due to our past experiences. When you release a CD the dog is gonna go in full speed ahead and depending on the position of the hog and other dogs it may not have a clean initial catch 100% of the releases and could run into an awkward position leaving itself open for a shot. It happens! I don't care what kind of breeding a dog has if you pinch a nerve you're gonna go through that initial "shock" which will put your balls on the ground faster then you can remember what you were trying to do.

The dog cull buck is talking about is a catdo. Catahoula X Dogo

well i would give the dog another chance if you like him and if you caught that many hog behind him i wouldn't be afraid to run right behind him also take into consideration im not that bright lol but that being said if it happens again he wouldn't walk out those woods with me again

bigA i agree to a ceratin extend. bulldogs are bred to be impervious to pain. they can feel that pain but they should have the mind set to be push through the pain and get the job done, not me slapping them to get them to act right. i've seen dogs bit so hard they have pissed right there on the spot and those dogs never made a sound they had one goal in mind. bulldogs are bred to be like that...if they don't have that mind set FOR ME i can't use them..i need a dog that doesn't need me to get them right after a big hit..they need to take that hit roll over and go get again son......and keep doing it till i say they need to stop...if they don't have that mindset they are a cull in my mind...will those dogs catch you plenty of hogs obviously they will as this dog has, but what happens when you go into another big bad sob and hits him again you are up a tree and your dogs are getting wrecked cause you took a known cull cd to the woods..its just to iffy for me..cullbuck will do as he pleases...i've got a dogo right now that if she don't do what she is supposed to do..i will take the hit to my pocket as hard as it may be, but she will get culled quick if she ain't getting the job done...

Not sure if it being part catahoula makes any difference. Hell, I think we have all seen or heard of someone who will use purebreed cur dogs that hunt like and qualify as a solid "straight up catchdog". Like someone already said they are not machines and will never act perfectly all the time everytime.

Scott and Deuce24... we are talking about hog dogs, not fighting dogs... correct?

Yes but most catchdogs are "bulldog" based and the history behind them is what makes them what they are as well as understanding the history of bulldogs/bullbreeds help w/ breeding good bulldogs/catchdogs.

these dogs are only flesh and bone..i totally understand that...i was a collegiate football player. during my playing days i played at about 175(i was a cb), when we played utah there was a time when i had to "stick my nose in there" on three 370+lbs men coming at me with a running start(i say men because utah is known for having a lot of mormons that don't enroll until they are 24-25 because of missions). i had to do this over and over throughout the game. my TEAM needed me to do that. i wasn't BRED to take on men a one full size bigger than me, i was built for speed and agility not brute power, but i did over and over again. it was what i needed to do that game to win. taking you guys standpoint if i had quit you would be okay with it...just let me play in another game...well that isn't how it works. when you quit you lose your position and you may never get it again, simply because you have shown the qualities of a quitter. the team now knows that when it gets tough you will quit on them. as a coach if i see that a player quits on me i won't play them again. they have shown they will quit on me so there is no need for them to play anymore. i hate a few things in this world one of them being a front runner....wel the same thought process goes for these dogs. they are apart of our team. their contribution is to catch the hog over and over again, no quit no back up. if you can't do that then you lose your job, never to be won again. it's like a pro team, if a player quits on you, during the off season(and sometimes in the middle of the season)you trade them out. they make work out for someone else. for me and my team they won't work...i've never quit so why would i allow my dogs to?

No, no, no....

To use your analogy... If we're comparing a catch dog to foot ball miss-match.... think of it like this....

I don't plan on going nose to nose with a man a 100#'s heavier than me... that would just be plain stupid. ;)

Wait till he ain't lookin', however, and I'll bet you I can take him to his knees.... permanently.... ;)   

Ain't no such thing as a fair fight

well noah you must not have played the game very long..lol...when you have a closed-in side and you are the edge player..the TE blocks down..then they pull a G, T, and a FB..then hand off to a TB that is 250..well buddy you have no choice but to stick your nose in there and take out the outside leg of the first guy you see. if i'm a coach and see that i got a guy that is going to back up everytime i run that play i will run it every single play until the other coach gives a player that will stop it..lol...same with the hogs. if they hit that dog and he backs up they are going to do it again and again...you can't be overthere screaming going in circles...you got to keep sticking your nose in there..it's what the team needs...

I am speaking of bulldogs/catchdogs...not gamedogs

Duece 24...did any of them 350 lb m ormans have a pair of knives in their hands?  ;D

okay deuce24 i'm bored and your football analogy made me want to counter it with my own football analogy.

just like a team you got to run with the best guys/dogs you got. think about the catchdog like a kicker. The kicker/catchdog is a specialized unit on the team that has a unique job. most teams only have 1 kicker and 1 punter. most hunters usually only have 1 or 2 solid catchdogs. Now the guy said his catdo was young under 2 yrs old but had caught over 100 hogs and this was the first time he had ever done this. so you got a young kicker who has never missed a kick and one game he finally misses 3 or 4 kicks in a row but in the end, still hits the game winning field goal. well even though he missed a bunch of kicks, you can't just cut him from the team cuz NO ONE ELSE ON YOUR TEAM CAN BE KICKER cuz they are real football players not kickers. and then in the offseason realize that there really aren't that many good kickers available on the open market just average ones. so you gonna replace your near perfect kicker thats only done you wrong one game for a random one on the open market, who might also end up letting you down. its the same with dogs, if you decide to cull him for just the one mistake, what are your options to replace him? you can't replace it with a cur cuz it won't catch like a catchdog. a random bulldog? who knows if it will catch solid or even as good as the one you had been working on for 2 years. you gonna raise another bulldog pup? cuz you need a replacement in the meantime. I say keep going with what you got unless he lets you down again, but get a good backup prepared just in case. well I guess if you got two catchdogs you can always give the punter an audition.

nope they sure didn't... but 350 running down hill at 175 can cause concussions, paralysis, dislocated shoulders, pinched nerves and everything inbetween...after that game i was covered in ice the whole flight back to houston. i had every reason to quit during that game, that stuff hurt plain and simple, but I NEVER QUIT...it was my job to do that knives on them or not..the catch dog has a vest on right...i mean we are now making excuses for the catchdog...are you guys as lieneint with your bay dogs...say there is a hog right there at the side of the road, but they haul but down the road and never find hog that day...do you say that dog is just having a bad day? their job is to find hogs..i'm pretty sure if you see a hog and your dogs don't find it we would all cull those dogs..so why are we being so lienient with the catchdogs? their job is to catch under any means neccessary AND never quit catching...

the above post for some reason wouldn't go through, so i copied it and backed out and now adding on to it..lol

i like that analogy, it is a great one...ask bobby bowden how important the kicker is. fsu missed out on a host of nc's becaue their kicker could never seal the deal(and they were good in most games, but never showed up when they needed them most). they always got another "top rated" kicker in the off season. actually i played through a season where our kicker missed ONE PAT the whole year. he missed that kick in the last game of the season...guess what? we lost that game by one point, if we had won that game we would have been bowl eligible and we would have won conference outright. while i was in college out head coach always had two place kickers and one punter. the punter early on was taught how to place kick. if i'm the head coach i'm looking for another kciker as this kiker has shown that he can't handle pressure. you can't go into a game knwoing that if you need them there is a good chance they will chock. it changes how you coach teh game and how you call plays. i don't need that.

if i have nothing but that one dog then i will probally keep them UNTIL i found me another dog that was already catching. soon as i found a catch dog that i liked the other one is culled. i know teh other one will quit, they have showed me that, its time to see what the new one will do. while that is going on i most likely would be searching for a good cd breeder to get a pup from. i would say that the dog needs to get fixed as it isn't a top notch cd so there is no need in breeding it..

BWAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE BUMP! I do believe that would even make a difference to a collage football player! lol

Just for the record cullbuck, one of the two of my best all time catch dogs was a double registered Cat. The other was BMC X PIT. I would love to try a catdo for catching hogs! I still think your dog is a keeper for now.

This had been a great thread for me guys. Its pretty obvious we all have different standards in catch dogs. Even with all the good debate and experiences shared, I’m not sure if “catch till the death” is a higher standard in my book but Im going to leave it alone for a while.

it's quit funny until you are the one that is out there doing it...i played with a guy in college that shattered his kidney in three big pieces in the first quarter recovering a fumble...HE PLAYED THE WHOLE FIRST HALF AND DIDN'T KNOW THIS....so you right we don't have knives or guns but SERIOUS damage can be done out there...this kid at half time was looked over and they rushed him to the hospital and he ended up losing his kidney and his football career was over...this kid didn't quit, he is that type of kid i want on my team. the kid that feels pain and has to be "slapped" to get going again...ya'll can have them, i went 2-8 with a bunch of those type of kids..we had a few i wish i could clone...this is a great thread i will say the only time i would expect my dog to let go is if they were drowning, but soon as they came up they should be swimming to the hog to catch again....maybe i just expect too much...catch without quitting rolleyes

Hey bud, i usually don't like to post but i thought since I have personally hunted with the dog and have had the chance to hunt with a variety of other catchdogs this would be a good time to put in my 2 cents along with the rest. In my opinion. 1. any catch dog can get thrown because ears tear! 2. A Hog can not only cut and injure a dog in half a second, but if the cut was in his butt the odds are the first lick was to his head and hard enough to knock him sideways? it happens to proffesional boxers and I bet KO's happen to dogs too. Just maybe between KO and cutt. it left him a little lost and in a lot of pain.  I know he has little back down in him. he has not showed any weakness in his want to catch for a good while. I have been able to leg several of his hogs and find it hard to believe he up and quit. I was thinking about self preservation, and cold hearted hammer heads! I personally like 3/4 hammer head!!!

i think we all agreed that getting thrown is one thing, getting knocked silly is one thing..but to be "screaming like a girl running in circles" and having to slap them around to get their heads straight(this was stated by cullbuck)is a whole other thing...i definantly understand it would be hard to believe that after 100 or so hogs this dog showed this trait, but it happens to the best of them. like i said in an earlier post..if i have no other cd i keep him, but i will feverishly be searching for something to take his place. i would NEVER hunt with just him as a cd and i would fix him to make sure he couldn't be bred....

IMO I wouldn't cull him! I have a Boodro  CD that was 5 years old, when he got cut on his juggler. I had the vest and collar on him but still got him good. He went in and snatched ahold of the ear and held on. He was slung a few times, granted this was a 300+ hog, then the last time he swung him and got his neck. As I was running into get dogs off, the CD let go and walked out of the woods and passed out! He was loosing blood like crazy! The wife applied a shirt over his neck. No longer then her getting it covered he was back at it again. We let him heal up for 6 weeks or so and took him out again. He did his job and never came off this time.

Luckily we had 2 CD and a hand full of bay dogs to back up the wounded CD.

So you really cant tell what to do with the dog till you see what he does next hunting trip!

Hope your dog turns out to be one of the best after this!

thank you, in that case i would let him slide just this one time

Well BigNasty, I think after 4 pages you have learned 2 things

1. 98% of the hunters here think he will probably be fine.

2. Duece24 dont want to buy your dog......lol

 ;D

right you are bob fox...i too agree he will probally be fine...and no i don't want to buy that dog, my standards are higher than that...if he was on my yard if i had no other dogs he would stay until i could find another i liked...he of course wouldn't be bred and i would be searching for another linebred pup from catchdog parents...it's funny how backhandedly i'm being doggged because i have high standards for what i want in my catchdog....that is really hilarious to me...i'm being laughed at because i want a dog better than that...amazing...lol...well at least anyone who ever buys a dog from me(if i ever sell one to date i have GIVEN all my pups away) will know that parents have NEVER quit so they can expect that in their dogs...OOOHHH the horror, a catchdog that catches without quitting ???

People have different standards in dogs. Just because yours may differ doesn’t necessarily mean they are higher or better.

 Whats funny to me is that this debate has been mostly tit for tat. What bothers me is that everyone that has bothered to comment on this thread probably has a dang good catch dog or two..............sept me! >:D If only miracle grow worked on catch dog prospects! lol

Cullbuck,

Please get in touch with me.  I have something I would like to share with you, however, I don't have the time to type it all out.  PM me your phone # please.

Regards,
Josh

It's your dog, do what you will with it. Of course, if anyone else or their dogs are injured b/c of the dog you should take full responsibity.

ive had my fair share of cds too. Its just like life in general you get a chance so why cant the dog? No im not tryin to be soft hearted but just one time dont mean nuthin yea it raises some eyes will he do it again? I had my bay dog get his shoulder cut open at a bay competition and he quit bayin but i cleaned him up and he ran again and yes he was very cautious about what he was doin after that and still will be and maybe thats what it took to put some "brains" into him and make a better choice. My other cd which passed away recently he was a older dog and yea he never quit on me but he got cut sometimes and whined on me because his cuts hurt him and no i didnt think different of him because he still went backin there and caught like a champ. You said you sent yours back in there and he caught. Theres a time to bea hard butt and times not to be.

Josh, I agree 100%.

I have not seen so many culls in the APBT as some folks have though. I think that knowing dogs and picking pups/dogs correctly in the pit breed helps. Also, IMO, training and timing are important. You must have an idea if the pup is ready and mature enough to catch a big bad boar. It is best to start the pup or young dog on a smaller hog to instill confidence. Twice in the pen should be enough if it is the right catch dog. :)

I wouldn't call my cd dang good yet I'm still in the process of training her and getting more woods catches under her belt. I had a baydog also get bit in the side by a hog and she came out hollering then she went back and found that hog again. Is a baydog I don't need want or expect her to act like a bulldog. As I continue to evaluate this dogo that I have she will be held to the standard of going in hitting the front end and staying there if she doesn't do that then I will have to cull her...or as in stated earlier keep her all the while watching for a cd that does what I want. And she definantly wouldnt be bred

U are right it was in bad taste to call my standards higher they are just different

Are you ready for an old farts 2 cents? When I first started hunting in the late 70's ther were no such things as cut vest and tracking equip. Two of us hunted together along with 2 finished dogs a pup and 1 catchdog. Gene would lead his one day me the next and we tried to hunt 5-7 days a week. Cathdogs saw their first hog in the woods, and they were the only catchdog there. This was probably was very stupid but it was done out of necesity because if we were starting a new dog it ment we had just lost one. A dog was not turned loose until we were looking at the hog. All of this prelim is just to show how our dogs were handled.

Had a gyp that had caught alot of hogs, taken alot of beatings, cut up severly and NEVER showed a bad sign. One afternoon we turned loose on a little boar about 150lbs. He broke just as we sent her. About fifty yards later he stopped in a running creek in about belly deep water. When we get there she is baying her heart out behind the find dogs. If this had been her first time out she would've been culled but, we kept her. She died the next year with a mouth full of ear. Never showed another bad hair. she was full pit.

Several years later had a realy fun to look at cur/pit male big stout, fast never miss kinda dog. One morning he was turned loose on herd of 10-15 hogs. He ran in, checked up and started baying. Who knows why? The hogs were rallying but he had been through that several times. The left out and Gator swallowed an ear. Afew weeks later at the exact location he did the same dang thing only this time it was on a single. He died years later with a mouth full and never showed bad again.

Both these dogs caught many hogs but were CULLS on these three days. What happened? I don't know. Through the years we've culled many dogs for many reasons. Not these two cause we knew what they could do.

ps. Ninja, your not the only one out of catch dogs. My grandsons are chompin at the bits rearin togo guess we'll find one soon enough.

I didnt read every post in this thread, but in response to the original question.

When a bulldog quits like that Im done with him.  I have seen a few bulldogs that would catch good but ended up not being able to take a cutting.  I would hate to know I was belly crawling through vines up on a big boar and and my dog wussed out.

Too many good dogs out there to mess with something that will quit.

My 0.02

i have not learned anything here  ??? ???i dont have any dog 4 sale dont know what you are talking about- you dont even know what your talking about rolleyes.

I don’t believe he was trying to teach you anything here. I took it for what I believe it was intended for. A joke.  The “lol” usually gives it away for me. He may have you mixed up with CullBuck also.

Stay out of this one Ninja.  LOL!!!!!!

Don't you have some bigfoot to Ninja or something.  If not, you could always go to the local duck pond with your wife.  LOL!!!!!!

HA HA!!! That is actually good advice. I rattle way to much on here now that I have a Wackberry! lol The ducks have died so Im outta here to Ninja me a Bigfoot now! O0

It was a joke! You must not have gotten it! Never mind ;)

What if he got it in the family jewels? Sid

I just saw dig em downs pit get castrated by a sow while caught in a sounder, he let go and came out and i couldnt blame him  :o ....but again i think a game bulldog man says cull...never quit. 

If he lets go after being castrated, Keep him around and don't worry he won't reproduce!  :laugh:

I really believe a good catchdog that catches the hog sits back and closes his eyes you could walk up cut his nutts out and he would never even flinch!!

did yall forget about robo-dog? he is the perfect cd. he does exactly what he is programmed to do

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g90/bigainaboi/robodog.jpg)

Is this theory proven?? Because I would beg to differ ;D

Now that is Funny! the only CD thats not a CULL!!!! ;D

I seriously doubt that raider! Someone on this board will find a hole in him. ;D

yeah what if his batteries died right when you were going to leg a big boar... I don't know if I can trust robo-dog.

Well if he is bred with a little brains he will be smart enough to charge himself up fully before a hunt! ;D

I always laughed at this topic because my dad would say I seen you and your brothers quit lots of things I thought you should have finished.  Playing with a broken finger, arm, a bad cut, whatever. He would say give the dog a chance I gave yall chances in that aspect you and your brothers all would have been culled I guess it was those words that made me rethink my culling process in those stressful situations. LOL

I just don't know about Robo-Dog, looks to me like he has a weak jaw for a catch dog. :o

no sir. that is his bay dog head. he can be special ordered with the "boudreaux jug n' jaw" for a lil extra $.

I recommend a truck charger just to be on the safe side of those long, cool weather hunts! ;)

Who ever owns Robo-Dog can breed my catch dog to him!! We can  try and get some super robo-dogs!!

Im sure you are right about that Ninja

I believe Robodogs main set back is he will be made by Garmin and will get lost until he gets back to the last position logged.  :laugh: