EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Ok, now I know this is going to be about a 5 page topic and get heated. But, I just have to ask because I don't understand.  I was reading along on another thread talking about crossing a pit with a cur.  While I want no part of a dog that's too rough to be a strike dog and might cur out on a big hog, that's beside the point.  When reading this I see folks saying things like, "breed them, they'll be rough enough to shut down a runner"  I see this ALL the time on here.  I DON'T GET IT.  First off, when those hogs that run a lot take off, I havent seen a whole lot of dogs that can hang with one in the brush to be able to "pull some hair", or "put some teeth on them".  Those of you that hunt rough dogs, how do you know your dogs are shutting down the hog and he's not just stopping when he wants to?  Are you catching every hog you start? Do they often stop them in the wide open? That would make sense if they did, because that would be the best chance they would have to run one down to make a hog spin and fight, right?

The best time to stop a runner is before he makes the decision to run.  If you have loose bay dogs and lead in your catch dog most experience runners will run either before you turn the cd loose or before he gets there.  The idea with the rcd is to be with the bay dogs and catch when they find the hog.  I run a rough crew and a loose baying crew it just demends I on what the hogs are doing.

this should be interesting ... my opinion on it is its just an opinion on what people prefer and what is catching them pigs  i personally love all dogs that do their job i have ran both rough and back up dogs can't say one type caught more than the others but i will say this a good group of dogs that are smart and work TOGETHER that is the key jmo now i will say that a good group of CATCHING dogs not rough straight when one hits it the rest do the same seem to make shorter races but overall produce more hogs i would have to disagree

 Well personally i think that our rough dogs shut them down because if its under 150lbs they grab it, and if its a big hog, it ain't runnin very far. Ever see a fat man in a marathon?

Well if they catch it before it runs then how do you know it was a runner in the first place?  I consider a sure enough runner one that splits as soon as he hears or sees a dog.  If they just catch him as soon as contact is made, thats not a rough dog, thats a catch dog IMO.

Also, I am not asking about "RCD'S" I understand that concept, I am talking about "rough" bay dogs.

You know my stance on this but I will always have loose dogs and see no reason to change.  I think that the hogs are going to do what they want to do and the ones that want to fight or do not want to run are what we catch.  If a hog REALLY wants to stretch out and run there isn't a dog alive that can "stop" them in my opinion.....

The way you know he is a runner is because he has burnt you before and made fouls out of you bay dogs.

I don't consider my rough dogs to be catch dogs when they will bay one that is over 150 lbs. . its a rough bay dog.

My thoughts exactly Matt, I was just wanting some input from the guys who run these type of dogs.

I mean catching any hog.

 Well we run both types of dogs, loose and rough...and we can tell if its a big hog or not before we ever see it just by listening to which dogs are baying and which ones aren't. It works well for us and we catch our share of hogs but we still get outrun sometimes. I don't think that anyone has a 100 percent catch rate.

Then what is your definition of a rough bay dog?

X2  

I think your exactly on the money Micheal and I agree 100 percent.  

If its a sho nuff runner I personally havent seen a dog the " Stops The hog " if it is in the brush or thickets.  Now a open fiels might be a different story.  But in the woods either the hog decieds to stop or it doesnt.  If the dog cant see the hog he sure ain't gonna put teeth on it.  And on these runners over here , and probably most places,  you better either have RCD and catch on first sight or a stay back and bay dog and let the catch dog do his job.  Cause half a$$en it just makes em run. Cause as soon as a dog bumps these hogs if it aint caught its off to the races  . . . . Just my opinion . .  

  X 3

I understand all that DJ.  What I am asking, is when your rough dogs get on a big hog, and he breaks, how do you know that the rough dogs "shut him down" and it wasnt just the hog deciding he wanted to stop and fight.  I just always see people saying this and i wonder how they know that is acxtually what is taking place when 99% of the time no one is there when the hog stops to see what made him stop.

I think thats why a lot of hogs are called runners when they are really just average. Some dogs dont have enough bottom and drive to stay with a hog til the end, the hog gets away and is dismissed as a "runner" and the dogs are off the hook. But thats for another topic to stir the pot on another boring Sunday night   ;D

Ok I gottcha. The answer to that is, if a man owns loose baying dogs he will tell you that his loose baying dogs shut the hog down. and if a man owns rough dogs he will tell you that his rough dogs shut the hog down. Nobody knows for sure, it just sounds good and everybody likes to brag on their dogs no matter what kind they are. LOL

well if he runs he better not stop  to bay or my pit x curs will shut it down for good and they never cur out my bmc's dont even cur out the thing is for the rcd to stop the hog before it breaks and runs . i have never had a lead in catch dog and dont want one a good dog dont need led in he will go with the strike dog and be there catching when you get there

 I personally dont think hogs are shut down unless if it is in open woods or open fields.  If its thickets then either the hog decides to stop or not and the dogs catch up to it or it keeps running and the dogs play out.  

I agree with this statement. I would think where you hunt and terrain have alot to do with if a dog is the one doing the shutting down. Where I hunt if a hog wants to run there is not a dog on this earth that will catch him in a east texas thicket. The only way to bay them hogs is to have a dog with more bottom than the hog has.

 Roughdog, If he stops then they didnt "shut him down" is what I mean though. Youre missing what I am getting at.  I see the the quote "this dog will put some teeth on one to make it stop and fight" and others meaning the same thing, nearly daily on here.  If the hog stops on his own and your dogs catch it, thats a whole different deal, thats not shutting it down, thats just catching him.

I didnt catch very many, maybe 5 or 6. Guess i need some rough dogs huh.

Agreed ,  BUT if a dog cant catch up to a hog, in these tie vine thickets , then he cant put teeth on his nuts.   And its NOT about speed cause you can have a gray hound and he wount be able to catch up to a hog in these vines unless the hog stops .   If hes a sho nuff runner you have to have a dog with more bottom than the hog.  

How many times do "rough" bay dogs cause a hog to run that otherwise would have stayed put?

In my opinion its more than some people want to admit.  Some times it takes 10 years for guys to see the've been in denial about this subject all allong.  Some will always swear by rough dogs no matter what.  Its easy to get sucked into the "rough" dog frame of mind when you hop on the internet as a bigginner and start reading things that should be taken with a grain of salt.   I've seen it time and time again. I've hunted with all kinds of dogs since I was a kid.  And I see the same thing in cow dogs as well.  Some rough dogs will make more livestock run, so they do more harm than good in those cases.

There are dogs that will be hard on a hog that runs and pretty much convince the hog its better for them to stand at bay than it is to run.  THAT is the ideal that rough dogs are based upon.  But its not just that simple.  The second part to that equation is backing off when the hog actually does stand at bay.  And thats were most "rough" dogs ive seen fall short.  They stay rough and the hog starts off running all over again.  Then you have that "rough dog" that will "catch anything under 200 lbs".  OK thats all fine and dandy but the first time I see that dog catch a 60lb shoat out of a group of hogs thats standing at bay will be the last time I care to hunt with that dog again.  Just my 2 cents.  

In my opinion it takes a well bred dog that comes from a livestock background and a good bit of luck to consistantly produce dogs that can pull off the "rough dog" thing and do it the right way.  There is a whole lot more to it than "just add a little of this and a little of that to put some gritt in there"  It may work for some people but it don't work for me.

Waylon

This is NOT a thread to bash rough dogs by any means, BTW. I am strictly wanting someone to explain this to me.

well i hunt out my truck most of the time so i get to see the whole thing from start to finish alot of the time.most of the hogs we strike of the road are not over a couple hundred yards from the truck when cought so i know how my dogs hunt

you caught over 300 hogs within 200 yards of a road? Man you must have a lot of hogs where you're at and not much brush, Im jealous.

WOW that must be a nice way to be able to hunt.  I wish i had places like that . .   Over here where i hunt i have NEVER seen a hog in the fields. When they hear a car, truck, four wheeler, or dog they are running to the next county.  So I NEVER see a catch , NEVER . . .  

Roughdog you have an open invitation to come hunt with me.  

Micheal you and Kevin need to come on over and make a hunt also.  Yall been talking about it for a couple of years now. .

im ready to show my dogs any time i have people come get me all the time becouse there loose bay dogs cant stop the hog they been after and want to see me catch the hog they cant catch i dont always get the hog but most of the time we do and i use a POT LICKER for a strike dog not no high dollar papered up bmc  to do it

Glad my BMCS were free and i dont have papers on them then   ;D

we got lots of hogs and plenty of places to hunt in this river bottom  but my dogs will wind hogs at 65 mph going down the road and i catch them where ever and when ever if you guys would stop huntting the same old spot you might catch more hogs

What part of the country do you live/hunt in ?  Im in North West Louisiana .  I wont come and get ya but you have a place to stay and keep your dogs and we will deffinately do some hunting  . .

Djhogdogger- The thing I hate about a pissing match is that it isn't a fair contest, Someone may have a head start!  :laugh:
 
I run fast dogs because slow dogs suck adn I know my dogs stop hogs because I've seen them leave my side and 50 yards away hear the pig scream and exchange until the stand off when the rest of my dogs arrive.

Yeah i need more spots to hunt.

im from marquez tx might have to take you up on that i aint got the best dogs but they are rough and they find and catch hogs  

Michael........I'm not bashing rough dogs.    I have hunted with some good ones and I look forward to hunting with more in the future.  I have a crippled one sitting in the back yard right now.  I've seen him work hogs in the open, on the rare ocation that it occurs, and I'm am confident in saying he "shut them down".  I've also seen him bay hog that never ran and those hog just bayed up there was no shuttin down to it.  I've also seen him nut hogs that never did stop running, so like Matt said some just won't stop.  And there were many times when the woods were just to dang thing for him to do his job.  Now hes a yard dog and the only thing he shuts down is his food bowl.  My point was, they are not allways gods gift to hog hunting like some people think they are, and a good many that i've seen fall short becuase "rough" is all they are.

Waylon

Roughdog.......Where do you hunt?

Yea BigA, we don't have the luxury of either or. We have loose dog, a rough dog, something inbetween, thick dog, skinny dog, fast dog, slow dog, yella dog and brindle dogs.  But we are still catchin hogs dang it! Hahahaha! :laugh:

i hunt alot in freestone limestone and leon  countys

My experience is this.  If a 250 - 300 lbs are bigger boar hog wants to run and is determined to run ain't many dogs gonna stop him if any !  The hog will determine when he wants to stop and has had enuff not so much the dog unless he is one bad bad azz dog are two are three !

If you hunt in the limestone, freestone, leon county area and live in Marquez and you hunt anywhere around your house then you know about running hogs.  If you are catching hogs that are being winded at 65mph then that is a topic for another thread....where is there a ranch road that will let you go 65mph?

If you ever make it to the Big island feel free to let me know and I will take you on a hunt. No gaurantees they will run or if we will stop them all but if what you want to see is a pig STOPPED whether he wanted to or not then I can show you that!

Here's an idea...

Instead of trying to breed those rough, catchy, super dogs to stop all those runners why not breed some dogs with a little bottom to stay with one.  Lack of bottom is what has educated all these "supposed" runners in the first place...

x2

i wouldnt have a dog that will run a hog for hours i can catch 3 before you get that one stoped  and if you dont think so get your pocket book out ill show you

that is what I was afraid of......

You do realize you arent the only person on here that hunts that part world dont you?  Just saying....

yes i know there is lots of good hunters around here they all catch good hogs we have no shortage . the land owners here just want the hogs daed what ever it takes so how i hunt is not hurting any one.  i dont go on any property that im not supose to be most of the time but cant any hog hunter say that they dont some times for some reason

 A hog that gets stopped more then ear distance from me is a dead hog that i will never see and not why I hunt.

I've. Run cow dogs for a long time and i don't know how many i've had to"cull"because they were to rough. There's nothing worse than getting a bunch of cattle set and than a dog gets bored grabs an ear or nose and all he'll breaks loose. I think they do the same with hogs. To much pressure and to many dogs make them run.jmo

I understand exactly what you are tryin get an explanation for, but i too, cannot explain it.  you make a very good point, and a very good question.  unless we are there when the hog stops there is NO way we can say that our dogs actually stopped the hog, or the hog just decided to stop.

      It just sounds good in the story line, the hog broke and the dogs got in there and shut him down, and catchdog sealed the deal. 






 ;D

Unfortunately, a good "rough" curdog is hard to keep alive. :(
 

well said

We think alike.I always heard that those ole sorry open dogs made all them "runners".Not them dogs that grab a hog every chance they get.  rolleyes

I run rough dogs and will always run them as they work for me. I like a 1/2 pit by cur and wished I had a bunch more then I have now. Now I have a few dogs that are either not rough or not rough enough as when they are hunted have more races and no hogs to show for it then not. Since my old dog was killed earlier this year. I know he shut down hogs as I had seen it more then once in open fields and on the edges of brushlines. When I ran him and his running partner not many hogs had a chance. As soon as they found it it was either caught on contact or bayed untill it moved(again seen with my eyes). They did not care how big a hog it was either. THESE are the type of dogs I love and want in my pack. I want all my curs to work like that and not let the hogs have a chance to run. If they do they better catch it and stop it fast. If they then have to bay it that is why I carry dogos. I do not want long races. I want the hogs stopped or caught where they stand.
Dogs with bottom are nice and I have had some, but they were rough as cob as well. The ones I had would hunt all night and roll out as soon as you showed up after the next one and go however far they had to catch the next one. But I also seen these dogs miss alot of hogs and hunted with long range dogs with alot of bottom that passed up hogs as well. That the cur pit crosses found an caught while they were getting out there to their "hunting range". Also in a lot of areas dogs with bottom as most on here are talking about can not be used as they need to be due to small acreage. You have to have dogs that stop hogs fast or come back in a short time due to that reason. Eventually that hog and all "runners" will f up and be caught. Be it rough dogs or loose. Sometimes it takes two packs to do it. It has worked for us to have two packs when we knew the hogs habit when struck. An that hog is no longer living due to that. I have also seen alot of hogs that stay put for silent dogs where as when they hear an open dog they are moving already. There is so many different styles of hunting and opinions on it that folks could debate this forever.
Everybody hunts their own styles and ways due to where they are and how they were tought to hunt. Some like loooooooose dogs and some like tight. Others like me want the hogs caught on contact and do not like long runs. I want to see good dogs work no matter how they hunt as long as they produce and we have a good time doing that. T

Rough dogs, Loose dogs, Bay dogs, catch dogs, Hog dogs, bird dogs, cow dogs, coon dogs,rabbit dogs, lap dogs are all used everyday some where to CATCH HOGS. Some will work in one area and not in another. If you feed'em who cares what anyone else thinks  ;)

AMEN!!!! :)

  IMO the reason there is alot of runners these days are because of rough catchy dogs.

I am going to go with roughdog on this one. Marquez, Tx. is the area I hunt all the time and we probably know some of the same hunters.

The hogs in this area have been run so much that you will be chasing them next week if you do not get them shut down.  You are not going to get them all shut down either. If they hear a car door slam they head out of the country.

My last hunt we got three. Two of the long range dogs were off to the races and had run completely off the ranch, across hwy 79, and God knows where. They finally got them rounded up but it took a long time.

It seems to me that the hogs are getting worse about running as time goes along.

My opinion is that you read about these breedings alot more often this time of yr b/c everyone gets out run more in the summer..PERIOD! EX: Sounders in the corn scatter the dogs and they are harder to stop in the dence vegetation, harder to track, etc. etc. So in come the guys who want dogs geared to hunting summer crops effeciantly, or guys who dont have the patiance/hunting experience to know the seasonal ropes...ie in come the catdo, pit/cur whatever topics and dogs. I wish i had the chain space and time to hunt enough to really care that much  ;D

And I am not saying this is always true... but i have notied on this forum through the past a lot of guys want to run a pack of pits to catch everything etc...they are mostly young guys who havent been around much or hunted behind good curs.

why when having a disscussion about an intresting topic. one that may or may not ever becompletely understood, does one individual have to make it personal.its almost like small man syndrome. or whos@#$!@# is bigger. i think a couple of the comments made on here were idiodic. im even wondering if at 65mph does he even slow down or do these rough "curs" just fly to the pigs and surprise them from above with an arial attack. i got some good laughs reading this and picturing nepolian leading a pack of super dogs (red capes,and a big "S" on there chest ) down the highway with total hog anialation on the brain. can i get a witness

Thanks for the input guys...I can see some of you still dont understand what Im getting at....

I understand what you were saying and think it was a respectful question!!But is it a question that can be answered well I'm not real sure!!Would I run rough dogs no have I yes!!Hunt with some guy's who still do! I own my on place and those dog our not allowed on it!!If I get a rally than I sure want to watch them dogs work'em not bust'em!! I run loose dogs and catch lots of runners!!Like Bryant  said bottom he is correct!! I am a loose cur man!!But if someone wants to hunt rough dogs then that is there choice if I do not agree with it then I just don't hunt with them on my place's!!!
But with me running behind ruff pit cross's I have seen them tear a hogs ass off one day and the hog never fight just pull loose and never stop!! I have seen another group that did get out run in a thicket!! Seen loose dogs get out run!! But you really don't know if the hog would have stopped with loose bay dogs or rough dogs unless you ask the hog!!
In 2000 I had a hog called number 6 that is how many times it took me to catch him!! one bark the race was on!!
He laid in the wrong spot one day were he had aways to get to another section of woods he bayed like a champ with the same dogs he out ran 5 times!! Who knows!! Good question though!!

That might be the word for casterated dog!Foul ;D ;D
Like
Barr
Steer
Gelding!!

I can't knock the spelling I can't spell for crap!!

A dog cant keep up with a hog in the thickette, or heavy brush so therefore he cant Grab Them Nuts as you put it! So the only way for him to do that is if the hog stops on his own and the dog catches back up to it, and as Michael says alot of dogs dont have the bottom to stay with one that long.

Good Post

X3

 After re-reading the original question, I have to first say that i think that most pit x cur dogs would be strictly catch dogs without a lot of bottom. However this is an assumption because i don't own any of these crosses. We do however own a rough cur. He is rough and will put teeth on a hog. If it is a small hog he will grab it by the ear. If it is a big hog he will bay it. He also has lots of bottom and will stick with a hog until he  stops it or until we cut him off because he got to close to the boarder of our hunting property, unless he gets too hot and then he will break off of it. One time he was on a large boar and it was a runner, we didn't get a chance to cut him off and he stuck with it for 5 miles. We had to make some phone calls to go and get him off of another property and when we got there, he was still with the boar. Both of them were wore out but he had him by the ear. The whole chase was thru the thicket. So whetther the hog stops or he wears it out, this rough dog does stop hogs and that is why we feed and hunt him. ;D Does this help any? :)

Sounds like you caught that hog because of the dogs bottom not his roughness.

I've said for a long time and made a post on here just a few days ago about this topic that A lot of people THINK their dogs are "stopping" hogs when in reality most of the time the hog just decided to stop and fight.. A good way to get your feelings hurt is to take your rough stop dogs to a thick 100 to 300 acre pen with one or 2 hogs in it that run. You will learn a lot about your dogs and hogs.. A guy not far from me has a 300 acre pen with 2 marathon runnin hogs in it that he used to let people run their dogs in. I can't tell you how many people came over there with a dog they said would shut them runnin @$#%&%$#@ down and after about 2 hours swore up and down the hogs must have gotten out of his pen because there was no way Ol Blue or Ol red or Ol killer would not have already caught a hog if there was any there.. He would then go get his yard dog off the porch and turn him loose in the pen and in 5 minutes he would have the hogs up and runnin and they were still runnin after them guys loaded ol so and so back up and headed home..
A lot of people just want to think their dogs are out there "running down" and "shuttin down" and "stoppin" hogs and there is nothin wrong with that, I've been guilty of saying it a few times myself  :D. But in REALITY  you can take the roughest, toughest, fastest, hog hatin dog that ever was born and throw him in one of these 100 acre cutovers or briar patches around here and he will look like an idiot on a hog that does not DECIDE to stop..

Either way, he produces hogs and Im not going to cull him just because he is rough. I don;t think that he gets hogs because he is rough, I think that he gets hogs because he is good. Rough dogs tend to get a bad rap and i dont think that its always a bad thing. I agree that bottom is very important. A loose baying dog without bottom is a cull in my opinion.

Ok guys and gals "play" nice.  Let's try to stick with the topic and not stray off with "drama":). If you need to vent get in the woods and catch hog;)

Sorry if i got out of hand. I could type for days on this subject. ;D

Okay what about thye piggie that ran so fast he "had to slow down" to catch his breath, and then the rough dogs caught him, and shut him down. Them rough dogs were so scary that the pig ran out of breath sooner that he would have from any of those loose baying dogs, therefore them rough dogs through a series of unfortunate circumstances, Did really shut him down, right?






 >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D Go head figure that one out!

 :D A caught hog is a caught hog! No matter if your dog stands on his head to get a hog to stop and look.

In a perfect hunting situation like a wide open field where a fast dog could stretch his legs and use his speed I would agree with you a dog could put a lot of pressure on a hog. But in thick woods it's a whole new ballgame, the hog has all the advantage and can stay ahead of  a dog for as long as he chooses to in my opinion.. Think about it like this if you were chasing someone of equal speed through the woods and they knew exactly where they were goin and you didn't and they had been all through those woods no telling how many times and they never had slow down to try and look for you, all they had to do was keep running with their head up and lookin straight ahead, do you think you could "shut them down".
 Not too hard to figure out I don't think.

Rough dogs might not shut down runners any better that a loose dog.  They just prevent them from running.

How many times have "runners" bay and then break bay.  Go and read the stories.   It happens all the time.  


 I see the value in rough dogs as preventinge hog from leaving the first bay. In my eyes true rough dogs need to be hunted together and be short to medium range to live long.

There are some areas that hogs just run way worst than others, but if they make the mistake of baying for too long they will need to cut there way out.

A runner is going to run no matter what. A dog, will need bottom and drive to run a hog down in the thicket, loose or rough. The reason that i am so passionate about this is because our two best dogs are both curs and one is loose and the other one is rough. My favorite one is the rough one. He has sooo much drive and determination, he keeps the loose dog going when he would otherwise give up. I know this because we have hunted them separately and together. We get outrun every now and then just like everyone else but we have a good catch rate also. We catch them in the open and in the thicket. I think there are sorry dogs loose or rough, but just because someone has a bad experience with a rough dog doesn't make them all bad.

scdogman said}
Rough dogs might not shut down runners any better that a loose dog.  They just prevent them from running.

It has been my experience that rough dogs caused more busted bays and sent a hog who was content to stay put and be bayed on the run. Maybe that's just me and these Oklahoma hogs. Maybe your defenition of a rough dog and mine are different to

Mine is this: Rough dog= any dog that would rather bite ( not catch ) than bay, or while baying insist biting or putting undue pressure on a hog. He is not a true catch dog, but hopes to be some day when he grows up  ;)

Loose dog= a BAY dog who will bite a hog only when he has to, any other time he gets back far enough to release enough pressure so the hog feels it's best defence is to stand his ground than to try and run, but not so far back the hog can simply leave out without this dog stopping him, he is confident enough to step back and BAY a hog, skilled enough to only be rough when he has to  :angel:

In my world the rough dog is not welcome

dj, don't get me wrong I'm not saying you can't catch hogs with a rough dog. My point is that I don't believe ANY dog, be it rough or loose or in between is running hogs down in thick woods and MAKING them stop. We all probably want to believe that and I want to someday hunt with one that can do it anywhere.. But I'm in no way saying that a rough dog won't produce hogs , my best dog is a little on the rough side.  If it was as easy as having a fast dog or a rough dog I could catch every hog around here..  ;)

I think we have found common ground! :) :) :)

i have been thinkin about this topic since i could remember and all i can come up  with is either type will catch hogs its apparently proven... you won't stop a big bad hog if he wants to run... and everyone has different opinions on this topic ;)

Yep I think Common ground was Found and it got to the 5 pages predicted from the start!

You hit the nail on the head.  What some call rough is different from what others call rough? In my book a dog needs to bay or catch.  
Anything in between is bad.

I know some guys that haven't owned a catchdog in the 15 years I have known them.  If you are bringing your catch dog, you would just be doing it for exercise.  

The ruff dogs of that I speak are usually 90 to 95% I would guess all catch by themselves.  No waiting on the bulldog, no biting the hams , but straight to ear.    I have never owned one, but know they exist and can produce high numbers in populated areas and shorten races( I mean prevent races in others).

i know people that catch alot of hogs with rough dogs and alot with loose dogs.
different strokes for different folks. who cares if they are catching pigs.

once again, I understand this and thats not the issue at hand.

Rough dogs are better  rolleyes ;D

I got one that will find em catch em and tie and load in the truck ;D

WELL I GOT ONE JUST FOR YOU TO COME CATCH HE HAS KILLED 3 OF MY DOGS I CANT SEEM TO CATCH HIM I WILL PAY GOOD MONEY IF YOU CAN CATCH HIM IT WILL BE FUN  ;D

What Michael is referrring to, and his question remains...there is a difference between a so-called rough dog and a catch dog.  If you want dogs that straight catch, why even mess with curs?  Why not run a pack of bulldogs?  What he's referring to is a dog that will stop a hog, then back up and bay it.  Happens VERY little even though everyone says "so and so got him stopped and we finally caught him".  If this was the case, there would be a heck of a lot of hogs caught (with bulldogs...not with curs hanging all over it when you get there) in the open, which doesn't often happen.  If it's the dog truly doing the STOPPING (not CATCHING), seems hogs wouldn't often end up bayed in places beneficial to themselves (wash-outs, edges of water, against fallen trees) like they mostly do.

Another question for those with the rough (catch) dogs.  How often do you bay up groups of hogs together?  Ever thought that one hog you find the curs caught on when you got there could have been the smallest of ten that were together when the curs decided to catch out and send the rest packing?  I think the latter is what happens more than anyone would admit.  A catching cur dog would be a quick cull on most of the old time stock mens yards.

I hunted with an old friend a few weeks ago who I used to hunt with some when I bayed and shot hogs (which he still does) and was reminded how a true stock bred dog should work a sounder of hogs.  His dogs bayed a group of seven hogs and had them bunched pretty as could be when we got there.  He shot a hog, and instead of the dogs all pouncing on the wounded, they immediately got ahead and stopped the group.  We eased in about 50 yards later and he shot another hog.  People can call BS on this all they want, but in the end all seven original hogs lay dead....one shot at a time.  Probably one of those things I'll see once in a lifetime, but thats the true definition in my mind of how a true stock bred dog should work.

I knew i would get the invite one way or another to hunt with you..... I thought i was going to have to pay a guide fee ;) ;D

WELL WHAT ARE YOU WAITIN ON COME ON I KNOW WERE THIS BOAR LIVES  IF YOU WANT TO TRY HIM I USUALLY START HIM ABOUT TWICE A MONTH IN THE SAME AREA AND HE DOES THE SAME THING EVERY TIME HE IS A BAD SOME BEACH I WILL GET HIM SOONER OR LATER WITH MY LOOSE BAYIN DOGS / ROUGH WHEN THEY NEED TO BE ;D

Dang Jesse you just confused the crap out of everybody with that last statement!!
You will be seeing those dogs on the dog trade!! LOOSE BAYIN DOGS/ ROUGH WHEN THEY NEED TO BE!!!lol

Sounds like a runnin sob, can i wait untill deer season and then squeeze a deer hunt out of you too ;D.. J/K
Them Loose bayin rough dogs are the way to go, i think the less the pressure on a hog the better.

WOW! We have a rough dog that will do the same thing! And we have a loose baying dog that will stand there and smoke a cigarette while watching the rough dog do all the work.  rolleyes :D

The ones that would catch without being told to do so would be the culls. Another thing, you can't "work" them if their dead.  ;)

i run very rough dogs i catch hogs in coastal fields all the time we ran a hogs 274yrds and caught no cd, last sat caught a sow  400yrds . i didnt see any thick cover around just grass . iv caught more hogs with rough dogs than with my bay loose dogs. my bmc bark 2 or 3 times maybe and then they stretch him out . i dont run hogs real far any more , but they do get cutt on alittle more. hood hunting is my favorit its always short and sweet well 90% of time

I am going to leave this post alone, but Waylon what u define as rough I call a dog that needs to be culled.     

I would not say I would not own one but I tend to  agree with you roughdog.  I have owned dogs that would not come off a track till the end still do but dont like it  and have chased hogs as many miles any anybody on this board but over the years I have found out I can catch two three four five hogs in the time it would take me to chase that one hog down.

I have owned some of the ruffest dogs a man can own and we have stopped many a bad hog but there is some out there that we aint never stopped  as of yet and may never stop those are the few am talking about  in the other post .  I know dogs can stop hogs but I have seen some bad boar hogs that have not been stopped and caught yet and I have had the dead and cut up dogs to prove it there is one place around here we dont even go on because of this and anytime we get close to it try to back off of it !  There was a boar hog that got shot out there by th eland owner that dressed over 400 lbs and we have seen some of his skull that are just unbelievable and a couple other buddys will tell you the same!

Ive seen this happen more than one time with Bigo's Bear dog. This is the kind of dogs I want on my yard. Id much rather relace or repair a bulldog rather than my bay dogs anyday.

scdogman wrote>
I am going to leave this post alone, but Waylon what u define as rough I call a dog that needs to be culled.      
 
  
We agree 100% on that fact. But I do see that type of dog sometimes bragged about, some one will say " he's catchy, or rough or gritty " to me he is trouble. if I am the man that took him to the woods, you can bet he won't make the ride home in my dog box ;)

[quote   If it's the dog truly doing the STOPPING (not CATCHING), seems hogs wouldn't often end up bayed in places beneficial to themselves (wash-outs, edges of water, against fallen trees) like they mostly do.
[/quote]This is one of the best statements I have seen made on ETHD!!

That's where I would be going the most..  ;)

x2

x3...quality over quantity any day...

 :D I guess some people don't have my sense of humor! LOL

I fear no hog.  The bigger and meaner the better.  I like true lock down running catch dogs.  I hate bay busting dogs and have culled more for that reason than anything else.  If they can't catch and hold a 300 lb  boar they have no business trying.

Well that's the problem!  You see I hunt this property that joins that place and the man that owns the place does not want anybody hunting his place but I know him and he has give me permission to go and get my dogs if they get over there but the catch is I have to call him and get a Holt of him first.

Well as we all know this can take some time if he don't answer the phone and I have to track him down and by that time my dogs have been over there a while and on those hogs over there if you ain't right on top of your dogs then you are in for a bad bad bad day !

I agree with yall that is the first place I would love to hunt if I could get permission to hunt it and be able to hunt it right and take my dogs in there and do what I needed to do then those bad boys might be in some kinda trouble but the way it is the odds are stacked against me and my dogs .  I have counted as many as I think it was 12 - 15 boar hogs running in a group over there  and we ain't talkin no small hogs we talkin all hogs over 200 lbs and a lot bigger.  Every time I have been on that place I have had dogs cut up are killed every damn time .   One day my Black Jack dog and some more bayed over in that place we finally got a Holt of the guy to go to them when we got there they were bayed in the thickest crap I have ever seen and we had to fight to get our way in .  Once we got in there the hogs had the briar's wallowed out  like a bear den in there and as we got in there  I had to get my eyes adjusted because it was almost dark in  there but sunshine on the outside once I got my eyes adjusted I could not believe what I was seeing and my buddy Kyle either.  There were about 20 -25 hogs all bayed up in that clearing they had in there and they were all standing butt to butt while the dogs were keeping them bayed  it sounded like two freight trains it was so loud and every damn hog in there i swear looked like they were over 200 lbs and some way way bigger.  Turn the catch dog loose he caught one and I shot one and hogs went every were it was a unbelievable site to say the least .

Another time I had to go on that place after a big boar hog as we were walking to the back of the place were they dogs were bayed big big big ass boar hogs were about to run us over just un real man my buddy Cory was about to have a fit to say the least hahahahahahha!  We seen one black and white boar hog in there that has to be the biggest wild hog I have ever seen in my life he look like a Volkswagon Beatle and was a painted black and white hog .  Beleive me we have seen some chit in that place.

If he would give me permission it would be on like donkey kong that place is the key to that whole dang creek bottom from end to end were the hogs call home and the next place over you sure better not get caught in that place they have done told us you get caught in here hunting and its on big time and they told us straight to our faces we love the wild hogs and we feed them we want them here.  Would'nt you know some city slickers from Houston owns that place , those two places hold the hogs like I said for that whole creek for miles around !


Sorry so long no other way to tell the story.

This is the place I would be going the most.

X 4   isnt this the reason we go hunting is to catch "THE BIG ONE "   

All I got to say is if u go huntin on that place that texashogdogs is talkin bout u better take somebody with u to put ur dogs back together bc u are in for very very bad news on that place. It really doesnt matter if u have loose bayin dogs or rough dogs u are goin to get ur dogs in a wreck on that place. It doesnt matter where u hunt at bc the hogs are goin to try to run right to that place where u have to call that guy.

I CALL BS ON THAT STORY.............lol.......there must have been an 8th hog that did'nt make the personal desicion to bay up like the other 7 did. >:D.  No in all seriousness Bryant.......I have seen the same thing and to me there is no better sucess on a hunt than to bay up a group like than and shoot several out of it at several different bays.  Most dogs do good to consistantly bay groups and even with the really great dogs; to re-bay the same group one or two more times after shooting out of it is top notch in my book.  The stars must have really lined up just right with some really good dogs to take that whole group in sucession.  I know it can hapen and I beleive you that it did.  But like you said most probly don't believe it, and more than likely its simply because they never hunted with the style of hunting and the kind of dogs it takes to have something like that happen.

RE to what Bryant said in reference to the original question....... (if it were truely the dogs stopping the hogs then more hogs would get bayed in the open as opposed to where they bay more often than not; like water edges, down trees, and creek banks.) There is allot of truth to what you are saying, but what causes a hog to choose the spot where he bays up.  Seems to me its more of a defensive chioce because there is almost always some sort of natural fortification.  But what put him on the defensive?  Seems to me like it has to be some influence from the dogs wether it be simply the influence of a loose baying dog barking or a "rough" dog getting hard and putting teeth on a hog.  I say putting teeth not because its a cliche term that sounds cool but because thats litterally what happens sometimes.   I hate to keep beating the same drum that I always do, but it seems to me the best way to describe it.  Take a group of cows; bunched, settled, dogs baying, and being driven horse back to the pens.  Now almost inevitably there is going to be a snakey cow that tries to head for the nearest thicket once you get close to the pens because she doesn't want to go to the house.  But its no big deal because the cow dogs will do thier job and transform from the simple loose baying barking presence that they are when the cows act right, into the bunch of in your face, ear eating, monsters that come out when a cow tries to run off from the bunch.  Ofcourse, the cow allmost always realizes the bunch is a good place to be and goes back.  Yeah, she may have been the one who decided to go back.  But there was a very strong influence of the dogs and had there been no dogs the cow would still be heading toward that thicket with cowboys in tow burning out thier horses for a cow that they will probly have to go back for later and rope anyway.  Now take some stock bred cur dogs that could be used on cows and hogs and its not easy to translate that cenario.  The cow becomes a hog and the security of the group becomes the security of a down tree or washout or god forbid a group of hogs.  The hog may have chosen to stop on his own but the right kind of rought dogs can influence that decion to stop sooner or closer than it otherwise would have.

Waylon