EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I've got a cat pit cross and he's a great dog and I want to breed him to his sister is this possible or well the puppies be a sack of rocks?

 Im deffinately not an expert on the subject but ive always been told not to breed brother to sister or daughter to father.

Im sorry. I need to modify what i said. I meant to say not to breed son to mother. I think that daughter to father is acceptable in some cases.

That's what I've heard but a guy told me different he said you can't only do it once but idk so I'm here now lol

 dj is rite on the siblings, but a lot of folks inlcuding the person from your other thread will breed the daughter back in the dad if you want to keep the traits of dad and put more of his dna in the pups. u do have to watch linebreeding that way, bc it will amplify negitive traits of the dad every time you breed and it doubles each time you line breed.

I've never heard of anyone purposelly breeding litter mates, I know if you linebreed = The same sire to daughter then to granddaughter,then to great granddaughter and so on,, that the gene pool gets closer each time and starts throwing inbreed type problems.

Ok well that's out of the question lol man I got to get more gyps lol

 you can breed back once of twice without havin the inbred signs show up, but the negitive traits will still be there everytime. you can put an out cross in the line and then breed back to that pup with first dad unless you used the same male to breed your out cross.

u can do it , my dogs are half brother to my bitches i breed

I'd consider brother to sister or parent to child inbreeding. Linebreeding would be more uncle to neice, aunt to nephew, grandparent to grandchild. Half sibling to half sibling
Now, like someone said, u doubling up on either the dad's or mom's genes, good and bad, breeding sister to brother. U may get a good one out of the deal, but u gotta gointo knowing you may have to cull pretty hard on alot of pups to get that one really good one ya want.
Last, i'd always heard when the old school pit breeders wanted to replace a grand champion, his last breeding would be to a daughter. That gave emthe best chance to reproduce him, but also saying ,, some of those pups would double up on the bad genes too and have to be culled.

the good and the bad will be amplified, you shouldnt really worry about any major problems due to them being scatterbred already, they will all be different, thats how you make your lines rock solid and stabilized, bad side is yes some will not be what you are after but the ones that have what you likewill out do their parents, thats nature, now being that they  are half bred you will have to line breed and inbredd many many times in order to get to them all being the same everytime with high percentages of being godd, this means alot of culling, which is not always a good idea when you can get dogs of a good caliber off a good bred solid lineage and pick up where many many generations of planned breedings left off, but because they are different breeds Id say do it,

I agree,, the cross bred your starting with will play in to the finished dog if you inbreed..

Meaning????

For now, you can go as tight as you want. The genes are so scattered with this initial breeding it's not going to matter. It's what you do with the subsequent breedings that will determine what you're actually breeding on.

when you tighten up the genes you tighten up the good ones and the bad ones...make sure the bad genes are not that bad, otherwise keep the gene pool deep enough to prevent litters of culls

a guy on this board who i respect once told me breed tight and carry a big hammer. ;)

In cattle to keep genetics  strong we breed uncles to nieces or nephews to aunts.

Whats the real purpose of it ?  

Why are you doing it ?

Thats the question .  What are you trying to accomplish ?   If you are looking for jam up athlete's I doubt you get it from a breeding like that .  It happens but not that often atleast from my breeding experinces.

If you are doing it for Bloodstock you had sure nuff better know what is behind them two dogs and I mean for gens not just who the daddys and mommas are but much futher back .

  x2 This is what I ment by reference to the cross your starting with, not knowing the full bloodline of both of your 2 dogs parents they could throw good or bad from way back in the bloodline , so it's a crap shoot with inbred on top of it.. be ready to cull hard so you don't add to all the washed down bloodlines that are all ready out there..

Well what I'm tryin to do is keep his blood goin he hunts ungodly ranges about 500 yrds holds a hog on his own stops them everything I'm lookin for I hunted with his brother 8-10 times and he's the same way only mine has a Lil more grit Ive never hunted with his sister but the guy that has his brother says she's like the rest of them so I don't think I can go wrong except with this scatterblood I'm not sure about the grandparents but the damn and sire to my dogs were jamup too how early yall think I should start cullin 4-5 months ?

 depends, some dogs start early some late. take those that start early and keep, and cull from that specific pile and then keep those that dont start early and keep workin them and cull those that arent progressing as fast as the others and start culln from both piles as the training persists. u may cull 1 from the early starters over a late, simply bc the late starter shows more drive and hunt. a timeline is hard to put on something of this nature. if you have the food and time, keep them all and by 1yr you have a 90% guessing rate of what dog/s you want to keep and which to cull. with the breed so scattered already, if it were me and taking what i have been told from old time breeders, i would hesitate to breed dad to daughter but never littermates and then the next litter throw a real good outcross into the mix and do it again

So breed bro and Sis then cull and from there bring a nother good dog in for an out cross then that pup breed back to my catpit correct

 sry would NOT hesitate to breed dad to daughter, but NEVER littermates. i just reread what i typed and u should never breed siblings. breed back to dad, cull and then throw an outcross in there and do it again and again. remember, u amplify the positive but also the negetive traits when linebreeding

Got it thanks for all the help

If these dogs are really as good as you say they are I would breed the best brother to the sister and then cull hard. I would start testing the pups at  8 to 10 weeks for nose (trailing and winding) however these type of dogs might not trail or wind but I would keep checking that. At 3 to 4 months I would check to see who wants to roll out. Also you can stage hogs in the woods and/or start them in the bay pen but do not burn them out.


1. We bred the best male to the sister

2. picked at least 4 of what we think are the best pups with an emphesis to pick the best female pups. Place the best males and females with friends.

3. Breed 1 or 2 of the best female pups to the father. Place the best males and females with friends.

3. Breed the best females from this breeding back to the grandfather. Get the best pups from this breeding, male and female and place the best ones with friends and keep both male and females from this litter for breeding back to this line. Make sure the best hunting dogs have been identified.

4. Get these last female pups and breed to a male from a previous litter who would be an Uncle. All dogs bred must meet your highest standards and you can not make excuses why you are breeding a dog that does not meet these standards.

Cull hard and if you bring in an outcross at a later date make sure you breed once to your best male or female and the outcrossed dog must be similar to your dogs, This cross needs to be culled very hard and only the best pup from this breeding should be bred back to you line of dogs. This dog or gyp should be 50% of your breeding with all the desired characteristics. Breed this dog/gyp back to the best of your line of dogs which the pups will then carry 75% of your dogs line and always pick the very best pups that look and hunt like your line of dogs.

Repeat steps as needed but very seldom outcross.

This is how I would do it and the percentages of good dogs will increase with each generation except when you outcross. When you outcross you are only looking for one or two pups to bring in to the breeding program and these dogs should only be bred once otherwise will will be getting more of the outcross which is what you do not really want to do. This is basicly how I have done it and it has worked for me.

I just don't know about 1/2 pit and 1/2 cat though because they are so different from each other. I still think it can be done if it is done right. Strictly my opinion but this is how I would do it if I were wanting these type of dogs.

X2........

He's not 1/2 n 1/2 sorry should have mention this earlier he's 3/4 cat 1/4 pit

Everyone keeps saying uncle-niece.  Aunt nephew.   Its same as daughter dad. Mother son is it not.   It's same blood diff dog the way I see it

I can tell you this .  It will only go two ways, no in the middle .

Damn good dogs are pure crap.

Most the times in these types of breedings there is no middle .

I wouldnt breed sibilings... I was told you can breed up and down but not side to side.. But deff dont breed sibilings you will start getting inbred dogs and messing the genes up in the dog..

Im not gonna do it like y'all said it's to scatterblooded and I won't know what I've got so there for I bread him back to a reg cat so now I'm workin with 7/8 cat 1/8 pit should calm down some of the grit and shouldn't be so catchy