EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Weatherford’s Ben made his living catching bad cattle, fact. He was a dead catch dog on hogs, and the best I ever legged a hog behind myself, many other say the same, cold nose, he could and did turn cattle and hog tracks 16 plus hours old, heavy distance winder, wide deep hunt, extremely intense working dog, if a cow ran off she wore him as fast as he got there. Heavy windmill, extreme hard fast windmill, on ranker cattle he would quarterback. Extremely impressive conformation amazing speed, cat quickness and agility, heart, drive, desire, bottom , natural ability in every way, 65 pound light fawn yellow, wide, deep chest, long body and leg, good arch in his back, tight high flank. 

I went and read up on Wrights website for yellowBlackMouthCurs and saw that it is claimed that Ben took a 16 hour old track and caught the hog!!

  I was just wondering how this could be??   If a dog could find a hog that was there 16 hours ago the did the dog take a time out for sleeping and building a campfire or how exactly could a cur dog follow, trail a hog track that is 16 hours old???  If a hog was walking at 3 miles per hour that meant the hog was 48 miles away?? If the hog was running that would make it how many miles????  Maybe they mean Ben found a hog and bayed it for 16 hours or something like that??  I just wanted to hear others view on a yellow cur that could take a cold cold 16 hour old track and catch the hog???  That means to me somebody saw a hog last nite at 2 am and marked the spot and looked at the watch and wrote down the time and called up old Ben and he got there tonight Ben ran the hog down and caught it or how does this work??  Does anybody know the story behind the 16 hour old hog track????  Willis please splain tis fur me willya pard????  Myself I have no use for a hogdog that could or would do this, the hog would be out of the county and for sure out of hearing and tracking it with a collar??  What does a 16 hour track mean to you guys???  I guess anything is possible but 16 hours for a cur sure sounds kinda windy to me???

I thought the same Wen I read it

i would have caught the dog way before his 16 hours was up, i like to hunt but not that long at one time :laugh:

well , i can't answer your ? knight stock , but if my ybm's finished a 16 hr track i'd figure that hog was feeding there 16 hrs ago and was bedded down afew hundred yards ( at the most ) away !   :) :)

To think, if you're willing to part with your hard earned money, you too could purchase a pup that shows him in the pedigree several times over. EXTRA, EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT!!!

Not to argue but just because its 16 hours old doesnt mean the hog would be 48 miles away.....BUT  with 16 hours transpired the hog HAD to have went a lil ways bedded up, woke up, and moved further away over the 16 hours..  Even if the hog was within a mile or two a cur dog taken a 16 hour old track and catching the hog is something I would have to see to believe.  

On a side note: I have not heard of any Weatherford dogs taking tracks that old so does this mean Ol' Ben does not produce pups as good or better than himself??  Something to think about.   No doubt there a several good weatherford dogs out there but......

I saw a blue dog take a wounded deer track 18 hrs after the deer was shot!  This is true, I tracked the deer the night before and my dogs could not pick up the track after about 3/4 mile.  The dog was brought in the next day at 10am, he tracked the deer until 2pm until he bayed it up barly alive.  This was Otis, Cuatro Hindes dog.  The dog was pulled off the track twice to drink water and cool off, then put back on the track. I seen it for real, not on the interweb!

Jerryg   

Im not saying it cant be done or that it has never been done but I would just have to see it to believe it. ;)

Jerry,
A Bluetick that has a cold nose is a lot more common that a cur tracking 16 hr old imprints. Both types of dogs have their strengths and weaknesses. However, true cold-nosed is not a cur trait.  Most guys that hunt curs will tell you a 2.5 hr old track is a lot for a cur.  I know there are exceptions, but not 16 hours worth of them.  ;)

   you said it just right bud !    and i'm a straight yeller dog man  ! lol

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  (No Comment). 

Blood trailing is not the same as a track.  or at least that is what I was told.  Blood scent does not break down like a tract will,   So a 16 hour hog track is not the same as a 16 hour blood trail.

CHICKEN!!!!!   LOL!!!

I dont know of too many hounds that could or would take a 16 hr old track.   I have all ben dogs, and if he could do it, he SURE aint throwin it, or the long range. ;)

Yea figured this was a no win situation for me. So I better stay clear. SOOOOOOO how bout them Cowboys!!!   :laugh:

 ;D :laugh:

It seems to me that Donald Cain wrote that descriptionon of the Ben dog. Donald used to write a column in the Full Cry magazine and he was a promoter of the FBMC and if I am not mistaken he was one of the creators of the FBMC association. He featured a dog every month in his column as well as breeder of the FBMC.

The description you just wrote is exactly his style of writing. I am willing to bet he wrote that...He was super high on the Ben dog.


I don't remember ever reading about his sire and dam. I believe that a great bloodline is formed around a great dog that comes from great dogs.

On the contrary it is most of the time a deer is lost, it is done so because they lost the blood trail. Meaning the bleeding has stopped or plugged itself up. The dog has trailed it long enough to start to trail the animal now by scent. I truly believe some dogs might have a better nose than others but you seperate them on their drive some have the ability to trail or push a track but won't. The handler sometimes must make the dog push the track and teach them what you want out of them.

In 1991 we were rounding up cattle south of Marfa and the hunter's found a fresh kill, this was at 9am. We called a buddy Rick to let him know if he wanted to run the Lion. We walked up the mountain to scout and verify the kill we found the kill and jumped the lion and pushed him off the kill. We went back to Ft. Davis to load up everything mules and dogs we got back out their the next morning at 6am. I was was telling myself there was no way these dogs were ever going to run this almost 20+ old track. I be go to hell if the dogs circled the kill and picked up the exact path the Lion bolted out. Those dogs ran for almost 9hrs before they lost him down a very steep bluff. I was truly amazed by that pack of dogs.

It is my belief that quite a few dogs can smell a track but the dog must be genetically inclined to take a cold track. Some dogs just don't get excited on an old track but most hounds do. Most curs do not respond to a cold track.

I have seen quite a few catahoulas and bmc's pass up a track that mtn curs will take. Quite a few mtn curs will take a 3 or 4 hour track or older. I just know that if the sign is fresh the dog better bay a hog even if it is 2 miles off. A good cur dog should circle wide if there is too much scent in one location and then find the exit track and follow it.

You do realize that the dog Jerry is talking about is a BLUE LACY not a BLUE TICK!

I should also add that I think most dogs smell the world around them pretty similar.  Where the difference is that I have seen is that some dogs will take that older track and see what they can do with it while others just realize that it isnt worth it and keep hunting looking for a fresher track.  I have seen some cases where a dog produced right behind another and still don't know that the second dog smelled it any better but just wanted to try and then maybe the track warmed up the deeper he got.  There a lot of reasons why some dogs take older tracks and why sometimes any given dog will take a colder track than usual.

No, I did not realize that.  Thank you for telling me. 

Just to confirm, the dog is not a Blue Lacy, its a strain of dogs that was developed by the Hindes family out of South Texas.  Not blue ticks.  Now, when a deer stops bleeding, the dog tracks on the interdigital glands of the deer., which is located between the hooves.  What happens at the beginning, the dog associates all the scents the deer is emmiting, with the interdigital gland of the particular buck, (during the rut the associate the musk gland which is stronger smelling, that is why our odds always increase during the rut)...so when they plug up, the dog continues on that particular interdigital scent....

Jerryg

 

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XvrNrKnLSaE/SX0wBn57fxI/AAAAAAAAA-w/Yj_J4hNZr88/s400/Hindes-Greg-Baker-deer-blog.jpg)

Hes what ever yall want to call that.....hes more cur then hound I believe.

So can a WB or a BMC, or any cur take a 16 hr track of a particular hog, I honestly think that it might be able to, there are many variables.  Wet vs dry condition, early or late in the evening vs. middle of the day.....  

I was tinkering with some crosses for blood tracking not long ago when I came across a WB BMC dog my buddy ownes.  I was thinking of crossing him over my catahoula/hound cross but honestly, the BMC has a great nose, drive, just as good than my hound cross, ... plus the brains. So instead of trying to reproduce or produce a tracking dog, I started looking hard at the BMC line of dogs, because in my opinion, that dog possessed all the characteristics I wanted in a bloodtracking dog.  Now I have no vested interest in any BMC dog, line, etc  and I decided to keep working on what I had, but if I would change, I would look strongly at certain BMC lines...just an opinion

The Hindes call them Blue Dogs..

Jerryg

I've seen my tracking dog take a 23 hr old track on a bow shot hog and find it.  The only disclaimer is that he only had to follow for a couple hundred yards before he found the hog, but I've also seen him find at about 12 and 13 hours too.  It's not unusual for someone to take a track the next morning and find what they're looking for.  In my opinion it has less to do with time, and more to do with the length of the trail and the condition of the trail.  

I do agree that blood will hold scent better than just a trail where an animal walked, but a lot of times there's not much blood to be found.

I'd like to meet Roy some time and listen to him talk dogs. 

Here is a similar discussion from November of last year... The question was, can a dog take a 5 MONTH old track?

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=21450.0

 All BS aside its just advertising, The thread should be "Great Dog or Great Promoting", Im thinking great promoting.JMO

i heard it all now :D

All in all i would hate to track a dog that is trailing a 16 hr old track, that could get kinda rangey

i personally rode with and witnessed a set of prison hounds track a robbery suspect. the track was atleast 12 hours old when they got their with the hounds. granted they were all flop earred blood hounds and red bones but once they got a scent, they never let up. we rode about six miles behind em till they got an old train depot and some tire tracks.

i gonna say a cur couldnt hit a really cold track. dont know if i want to stay behind em for that long though.

It took along time to convince you didn't it Jerry! JK

I don't think people are promoting a dog here. Just think that a cur dog which ever type you hunt, can do it. They just as ourselves have to be pushed to do so. Work the track till they get it hot enough to where they will take it and go with it.

Starting pups you sometimes walk near a tank and see that the hog was there 30 min ago. All the signs are there. Tank is murkey, where he got out. The ground is still wet, the tree where he rubbed still has wet mud. The pups might walk around follow it for 50 yds and come back. Walk the dogs in there, push them to take the track. You will find that doing this a couple of times and they start to understand what you want them to do. I know that most of us do that, but the same goes for wanting a dog to take an older track. This is something I believe in. Push em beyond what you expect them to do, and sometimes it will really payoff. ;)

Long time to convince me that what? rolleyes That the Hindes dogs are not Lacys, I knew that when Roy told me his dad bred some Lacy in them some time back....just a little.  Your the one that called them big Lacys  :P....  Look more like a cur than a hound for sure.  That dog in the picture looks like Gus.  I have seen that dog take some tracks.....on one track, he tracked a deer 9-10 hrs after it was shot, my young dog tracked it approx 1/2 mile and I pulled him off the track.  My good female was in heat and I could not run her that day.  At the spot I pulled my dog off the track, old Gus worked it for 15 minutes and kept on going,  another 1/2 mile later, Gus takes a 90 degree turn and goes in about 100 yards.  Roy is using his quicktrack and says..old Gus has not moved, lets wait here a bit, 10 minutes later he turnes on the quicktrack and says..hes in the same spot..there is your buck.  As we quietly walked in I hear Gus chewing on the deer.  Deer was dead.  The hunter lookes at Roy and says...I will never admit to this .... and he plants him a big old kiss!!!!...  We laughed!!  The only spot of blood on the whole track was two quarter sized spots at the shot.  I pulled my dog off the track, my fault for not having the confidence in him, old Gus walked right over his tracks and kelpt on going.  Buck was a 190 clas deer.  Shot at 7 am and found at 6 pm.    

Here is a pic

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5305/5788578067_77845a8de8.jpg)

No dummy about the lacy's> LOL

Jerry,

That is a great buck. 

A sixteen hour track in southeastern Louisiana is not the same as a sixteen hour track in southeastern New Mexico.

I've seen curs take cold tracks, but those I've seen take cold tracks will not do it cosistantantly, only circumstantially. Conditions generally need to be right.

I think a lot of People would be surprised at what their dogs are capable of, if they just stayed out of the way...  "Ole Dan is gettin' out a lil far, hate him to bump a deer."
Most folks won't give dogs time to sort out a track either, if it's not hot enough to bolt with, let's move on...
That gets dogs in the rut of not even considering those colder tracks...

Smaller places and established resident hog populations don't make for cold nosed curs...

they got the hog on camra  ;)and knew he was in the area on a friday evening popo went back sat. morning caught him  8)and called it a 16 hour track   it all BULLSH%#  :o

My question is....how do they know the hog that was bayed/caught was they same that left the track? You reckon he was the only hog in the woods?

  2x

In my case, because I knew what stand he was shot from and he still had the guy's arrow in him, which was the same as the ones he still had in his quiver.

10-4, I should have clarified that I was speaking to the original post.

That's right!
I pulled my 9 pound blood trailing wiener dog off the track of a gut shot deer around 5 o'clock one evening because the deer was still alive when she found it.
Took her back the next day after the morning hunt 16-17 hours later. Put her back on the track and she waisted no time leaving our lease and finding the dead deer better than a quarter mile on the neighbors place.
She would have taken that track and found that deer if it was 32 hours old.

Gotcha, sorry about that.

My old blood trail beagle was borrowed by a buddy to find a doe that his uncle had lost.  They brought her over there about 5 hours after the doe was shot.  She found it quickly for them.  He had lost a buck the morning before.  Just for grins, they put her on the trail at that bow stand.  She grinded it out, and they would find a puddle of blood along the way to confirm she was doing good on it.  It took her a while, but she did find the buck.  I think he said she took about an hour on it.

His uncle was completely impressed. 

Her litter mate brother was better than her.  I ended up selling him, as someone saw him track and bay a wounded deer.  He insisted on owning him.  Freckles was a good one.  I think he still hunts him today.  He'd be right around 9 years old. 

I just wish i could look at a trak and tell you this on is 6 hours old this one is 10 hours old and so on i can can tell you is it wasn't here yesterday!!!

Why is it so hard to believe? All that means is someone seen a hog in a certain spot 16 hours before the dog was turned loose. Why would anyone think a hog would go 48 miles in 16 hours? It could have been dead calm with very high humidity or dew on the ground and a really smelly hog. On top of that it may have been sitting a few hundred yards away waiting for the feeder to go off again.

Just to add to the fray here, I used to help a friend on his bowhunting operation that had an old beagle gyp he used for trailing. I have seen her find deer shot 16-20 hours earlier and trail thru herds of live deer doing it.

Growing up, we had several dogs around the farm that followed the tractor and shredder to the pasture every time it went out. One morning Sonny said they all stood on their head when they passed by a spot I had shot a deer 3 days before.

But the 16 hour old track story has to be taken with a grain of salt just because as mentioned before, how do you know it was 16 hours old ?

And while running a bowhunting operation South of Sabinal, I know some hogs would come to a feeder and eat, go water and bed down and never travel over maybe 300 yards in a circle. Blade will work a trail for 15-20 minutes before looking for something a little hotter. In a situation like I just described, I would bet a pallet of your favorite dog feed he would find that hog. Is that truly a 16 hour old track? I guess technically , yeah, but with the hog still in winding distance, what time he made that trail is not that big a deal.

A story can be told however you want to tell it. Leave out parts to make it seem more difficult or leave out the tough stuff to make it seem easy. Outfitters do it all the time. I did it when I was outfitting. Its not really lieing, just telling the parts of the story you want to ease the clients mind or give him high hopes. 

x2

If the dog handler is always in a hurry and doesn't hunt with the curs then the curs will learn to leave colder tracks alone because the handler will not wait on the dogs and the dogs know this so they will be more focused on keeping up with the 4 wheeler than running a colder track.

I hunt with Jay Hutto a lot. His old Dan dog will work a trail as long as it takes if you let him. If things are a little slow, Jay'll say, " Let's let Ol Dan see what he can come up with "More often than not, he'll start a hog. It may be a longs ways from the start, but he'll get him up and then we get close and send the rest of the dogs to him.

Jesse Paul has hunted with Dan too and I bet he'll be the first to agree with me, it can get aggravating as hell sometimes waiting on him to work it out.

I like a dog to start one quick, but if it aint happening that night, a cold nosed dog can make the difference in getting a hog or getting skunked.

i wa stheir.

well i read the same thing i think one time also .and correct me if i'm wrong but it was a cow track , and he finished it 6 ? miles from where he started it ? and then settled the cattle to drive ... its been a while but the original post sounded familiar .

Jdt I believe that's what I read also