EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

A friend of mine bowed his neck and decided to get to the bottom of the Big Boy mystery this weekend. After talking with lots of men, Mr. Perry included, he was lead to Bill Bay. Mr. Bay said he bred the dog in 1972 and he was the best dog around those parts at the time. Big Boy was by Woodruffs Coaly, a black and tan, and of a gyp Mr. BAy owned that was part Leopard. Mr. Bay also said that some of the Woodruff dogs were shaggy haird which would exsplane the hair on some of my dogs.

Coaly being a black and tan could confirm the suspicions of what happened to the other Big Boy X Blondie pups.

So what coloration was Big boy, just wondering?

Jerryg

Wow thats good to finally know, it's always interest

 Glad you found out the info Bob, Im sure you have been pondering on it for years.

So did Lloyd Perry confirm it was the same bigboy that he referred to in the book?

Waylon

Mr. Perry said he had heard of the dog but he didn't know anything about him. I am pretty sure they were not closely related. I think, if you dig deep enough and far enough back, the east Texas dogs are more closely related than people realise.

bigo ,was woodruffs coaly a black and tan hound, or cur ?

Agreed!!

 
Bryant do your dogs go back to Big Boy as well?

The Coaly dog of Mr. Woodruffs was a cur dog.

NICE!!! ta  no

I bought a dog about two years ago to use as an outcross to the line of dogs I've been hunting for a long time that was traced back to the Big Boy X Blondie cross.  I lost him a couple months ago, but fortunately did get a litter of pups which are now six months old.  He was as fine of dog as I've hunted behind.  I sure have high expectations for the litter.

Do you have pics of Big Boy and parents? I'd sure like to see em.

One of Ricky Drivers and my wifes cousins brought me a big stack of papers and pictures yesterday along with a tape of Ricky and Ben talking. I recognized most of the dogs that belonged to Ricky but some of the pictures were taken at Ben's and I will have to get with him or Clue to identify. I need to find a casset player today, to listen to the tapes.

good to see this topic still alive.

It would be great to be able to see some of those pictures.

Waylon

It would be real nice to put all theses bits and pieces of the subject all to together in one topic I know many  folks are interested and this has been talked about in many different posts over the past year or so possible on of moderators would want to sift it all together one day would be pretty good reading.

Skoal and I will go through the pictures this weekend and pick out some to scan and share with folks that are interested. I will ask Ben's permission before I let someone listen to the tapes. He was asked about what he knew about some dogs used in a couple of breeding programs in 1997 and was painfully honest.

Sorry to bring this thread back up again after its gone stale but....was curious about the painfully honest part of the conversation and what it entailed?

Did you ever get any of those pictures scanned Big-O?  I would sure love to see them.

Waylon

Bryant,
 So the coloring of your last litter comes from big boy ?

 Skoal put some pictures on another site and I didn't think to have him put them on here. I will see if he will do it. The tapes told how a certain dog was really bred and the problems that went along with a couple of dogs used in a big time breeding program. If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything and all this would do is stir up some crap and serve no purpose.

Fair enough. Since they were described as the mans personal tapes...I did not know if the information had already been put out publicly.

Thanks for the reply and X2 would also like to see the old pics if Skoal gets the time.

Ok I have some pictures of the old woodruff dogs that were old and alot of them were taking at the woodruff ranch while hog hunting or working cows. Bill bay knows good dogs thats for sure. But Mr. Woodruff had an eye for a dang good dog. The funny thing is alot of these dogs had thick hair. Black and tan dogs ,black dogs,yellow dogs, and brindle dogs oh can't forget the saddle back dogs. THERE WERE SO MANY STORIES I HEARD MR. WOODRUFF TELL OR STORIES THAT CAME FROM HIM.
But one. Of the best was when we were catching so many hogs and his dog HR got away on the role out and one guy ended up with HR and a bad hog. HR got cut bad and the guy brought him back in the saddle cut. Mr. Woodruff rides his horse up to the guy grabs his cut dog puts him in hos saddle. The other guy was saying how,bad the hog was and that is whenMr  Woodruff said something I will never forget. SON IF I WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE MY DOG WOULD NOT HAVE GOT CUT.  It was so true. He knew that dog and that dog knew him but that day that guy did not unass his horse and back that dog.

Ricky

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansRicky129719793972214425.jpg)


Wildman


(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansWildmanorRicky129719793974090193.jpg)

Spook

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/Jordansspook129719795962560587.jpg)

Sissy

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansSissy129719795050624711.jpg)

Girl

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansGirl129719797945091049.jpg)

Clyde

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansClyde129719793014009605.jpg)

Jake

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/DriverJake129719791886516723.jpg)

Spook and Sadie

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordanSpookandSadie129719797089428213.jpg)

Slick and Sadie

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JordansSlickandSadie129719797943996851.jpg)

That's something special having all that history on those dogs. It's something to hold on to and continue breeding, and that's exactly what you guys are doing.  It's an impressive feat to say the least.

There are 100 or more pictures of these dogs. Many of them  or their names would not ring a bell with anyone who didnt know them or Ben or Ricky Driver. These are just a few examples of some of the really good dogs we have pictures of, but like I say I doubt the  names would mean anything to most.  
I will say for what it's worth, these dogs and this family of dogs are as good as it gets , tested and proven over 45 years now by people who use em and know what they are doing. Money cant buy what's gone into this family of dogs.

And I will say a big thanks to the men like y'all who have kept the standards high, and the axes sharp!

Skoal

I remember now the top two pics from alton's board. Believe you stated they were both off of Mr. Driver's yard if not mistaken. 

Were the lower pictured dogs also off of his yard or were they from Mr. Jordans?

Thanks again for you and Bigo's time to put it together.

The pictures taken in the yard, around the house and in the pens were at Rickys house a year or two before he died. The pictures of the dogs on chains were at Bens place and taken by Ricky. Bens not much on picture taking. Ben borrowed Jenny and bred her to Camp's Moe to get Ricky, Bea and that bunch. Jenny was also bred to Beavers Crook and all those pups ended up culled or never bred because of bad confirmation, working ability or both. Clyed went To Drivers Leroy through Henry and was a good find dog. Jake and Sissy were littermates to Bens Cotton dog. They were by Spook out of Cotton Hilderbrant's gyp, who came from Buster Lee. Ben has put Cotton on a cow track and found him bayed seven miles from where he started. The dogs at Bens house will show up in most of his dogs pedigrees. Those at Rickys house blood was lost in a short time except Spook, who went to Ben.

mr. bob , tell us about camps moe , where did he come from - how did he hunt and work ? also do my cowboy pups go back to him at all ? cowboy was a grandson of cotton right ?

A short time after Ben and Ricky met, Ricky asked Ben if he had a dog to breed Jenny to. Ben said he did but knew where there was a better one, that being Mr. Camps Moe dog. He was just the best working dog Ben knew of. I don't think they knew for sure how he was bred. He was just a product of the dogs some of the mountain families bred. Cowboy was a grandson of Spook and heavy to Ricky with some Henry thrown in. Ricky was by Moe out of Jenny. Cowboy went back to the Big Boy Blondie cross 30 to 35 times. I got tired of trying to count it.

sure do like the build of spook!!

Was Beavers Crook a half tailed dog?

I have heard Crook called half tail and three quarter tailed with a crook in it.

Skoal
Not to change the subject on these fine yella dogs  but what was the story on the 2  running hounds pirched up on the dog house what did y'all run with them? And do they have some sulaky blood in them looks like they have a lot of hair

The hounds were at Bens house. He ran fox and coyote with them. I guess the long hair is from the collie blood showing up. I hear alot of the Winfrey dogs along with the Woodruff dogs come long haired.