EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Been doing a lot of pondering over the past week.  Frustrating would only begin to describe my last couple of years.  If anyone would have asked me a year or so ago which part of the hunt is my favorite, I would have without a second thought said that working young dogs and watching them mature into hunting machines is what truly gave me satisfaction in the woods.  A short time later, I find myself beginning to question whether that sentiment still holds true.

Let me first preface by saying, my frustration is not something new.  Anyone who has hunted and worked dogs for any length of time has at some time more than likely shared the feelings I’m feeling and I'm sure with time it again will pass.

Over the last two years I have lost six sure enough good dogs...one's that anyone would be proud to own. (RIP - Abby, Doc, Ranger, Romeo, Duece and Buck).  What's even more irritating is the fact that ALL were lost due to out of the norm issues that most don’t experience.  Seems I can’t get a dog raised before something happens and I find myself again having to work the fire out of some pups trying to fill a void.  Concerning my breeding, what once seemed like a well thought-out plan with an ultimate goal now almost seems like a never ending and un-winable battle.

Although in reality I don’t see it happening, but there comes a feeling where I wonder if it’s all really worth the effort.  I can quickly sum up my investment of $50,000+ in equipment, kennels, hunting rigs, tracking systems, training collars, dog boxes, etc.. and then there’s a couple hundred a month in feed…vet bills, medications, vaccinations and the list goes on.  Now figure time…an hour a day washing pens and feeding.  Time spent training, fuel from here to there.  WOW…when you begin to really think it all through it’s kind of mind boggeling what I have tied up in all this.  Then there’s the hunting places…time it takes building relationships only to have some yay-hoo come poach on a place and sour the owner to hunters in general.  Shesh…

I’m sure in a couple weeks I’ll be back to my self…talking and pondering about the next litter and what dogs I hope will do what, but for the time being….I’M FRUSTRATED!!!

I hear you! After all the years breeding and raising dogs, money invested, breedings planned, etc I started to realize after this last litter that if they live to be 10 years I will be 62 years old!! So I may be through raising pups............

 I don't have kids, my nephew has no interest in the dogs, so what happens to all my work and energy I have invested over the years??

Talk about frustrating....see everything I have put together for the past 30 years fall apart...

IF YOUR NOT ENJOYING IT THEN STOP. MONEY IS MADE FOR SPENDIN, IF YOUR KIDS ARENT HUNGRY AN HAVE SHOES THEN SPEND THE MONEY DOIN SOMETHING YOU LIKE, THATS WHAT MAKES LIFE BEARABLE. ITS A LOT OF TIME MESSIN WITH DOGS, BUT WHAT ELSE IS A GUY GONNA DO, WATCH TEEVEE?

My luck went down hill after I lost my old Blue dog a few years back... think i've lost seven more since then, pretty much had to start over. Went all them years without ever loosing a dog, then bam... the bad luck begins. Luckily, Matt sold me Tweety and we're on are way to having a good line of dogs.

But, I enjoy it and have no plans to ever get out of it.

Like Ed Barnes said, if it wasn't for this, you'd be spending all your time and money on something else.

Bryant,
I agree with everything you just said.  I too have lost some good ones before they needed to go; for reasons from other than a hog.

10years ago I only hunted for the thrill of the kill.  That thrill is over and I am no longer blood thirsty.  I love to eat fresh meat but it would be cheaper to buy it from the market.

I find myself also searching for "why I do it"

the only thing I have is the magical moment when the relationship of man and dog come together to produce a hog in a bush that once seemed empty to human eyes and now is alive with our prey.   THE STRIKE!  Unfortunatly that too has lost it's luster after a few thousand times.

If anyone has any good words of wisdom, I AM ALL EARS
Longshot

Bryant,

   I hear you....

 I took some time off from hunting this year. To the point that people I used to hunt with twice a week don't bother calling to ask if I am in for the hunt anymore, they already know my answer. ;)  Hog dogging for me is a hobby, and I have had several hobbies in the past that I no longer participate in. I have always maintained that when it is no longer enjoyable, I'll find something else to do.  This year, I picked up a rope. Been roping 3-4 days a week, and having a blast.  A good friend and I own the cattle, the roping pen that is only 500 yards from my house, horses, etc...  We don't have to worry about landowners, deer hunters, other hog hunters backdooring, dogs getting hurt, ...  Not to mention, I was spending on average $200.00 per hog hunting trip. ( tank of diesel, dinner for Mandi and I, and some drinks for the hunt), and hunting multiple times a week.  

    I didn't sell out, but I did sell down. Then sent some of my dogs to be hunted by friends. Heck, I've even had some of my friends hunting my places to keep the landowners happy.  Now that the cooler weather is coming, I am thinking more and more about turning the dogs out.

Only problem now is how to deal with the a-hole landowner that has a 200 acre place right in the middle of almost 12k acres of prime hunting property that I have had for years. Seems the two landowners are feuding, and I don't want me, or my dogs in the middle of it. >:D


You are a level headed guy, so I am not telling you anything you don't already know, but...  Don't do anything rash, like getting rid of everything. Tracking systems, equipment, boxes, etc don't cost anything to sit on.  It won't hurt the dogs to have a six month break either... just maintain, then after some time away from hunting, see if it's still worth it.

I don't see myself ever selling out, and that's not the intent of my post.

Heck, I'm not all that old, but I'd be willing to bet I've been at these hogs and dogs probably longer than most on here...got my first hog dog 19 years ago.  Trust me, I can understand what your saying James.  I see it all the time with the new guys I take along who want to jump off the machine at full blast and run through the woods towards a bay as fast as they can go.  Sometimes I miss that excitement, but at the same time I am also reminded of the maturity that comes with the years of the hunt where good dog work and all that has just happened prior to the actual bay and stick is equally appreciated.  I'd like to ease into a bay...find a place to settle in and watch the dogs work for a spell.  That would probably drive those crazy who are only thrilled with the kill.

I've seen lots of people come and go over the years.  If some of you don't understand what I'm talking about...stay in the sport long enough, raise your own dogs and someday trust me you will.  There's no greater satisfaction than going to the woods and catching hogs with dogs you've raised, but there's no greater disappointment than loosing those you've put so much time into.

Ahh...those things that make the mind ponder.

I agree that I while the new has worn off I have come to enjoy time off from hunting almost as much as hunting haha.  I hunted hard for a few years and I am not above coming out and saying that it consumed me.  I still go hunting and I enjoy going for an all day cool weather hunt as much as anyone but when your free time starts "hurting" more than going to a paying job its time to re-evaluate.  People can say what they want and it is true I don't have any world class dogs but if you set those dogs up for 3-6 months and go do something different they arent going to forget what they were bred to do.  They may get a little out of shape but heck so do I.  They will come around after a hunt or two and everyone will be running on all 8 again and you can come back to it with a want to that maybe was not present before.  The thought of missing a hunt used to make me furious and I would be in a bad mood if I couldnt go etc and I realized pretty quick that is not healthy at all.  You should not be stressed out and mad regarding something you do for fun.  Like all things in life, everything in moderation keeps everyone happy and metally healthy.

i became dogless once do to the job and a mean ol EX-WIFE . and i'm gonna tell you i was a miseable sob . then after the dogs was gone the EX couldn't live with me so she left . so there i was single miseable and dogless after 40 years of dogdom . it's just in the blood or being conditined into a life style . and now i'm here with a yard full of good dogs single and happy as hell .still chase the ladies every now and then but they are strictly catch and release . all the dogs i've got way more than i need now some how seem to allmost pay their own way . i still hunt on foot and enjoy walking in the woods behind the dogs . but do to some health issues i'll have to get some kind of ride pretty soon but it will not be the new high dollar rides . keep the cost down on any thing you do and you will enjoy it alot more , to hell with the joneses !! i've known alot of people that got in and out of huntin with dogs . and if you watch closely you'll find that those people are in and out of every thing they do . if your happy runnin dogs you won't be happy not runnin dogs .just the ramblings of a gettin older by the day dog man . good luck all and if you have to cut down not out .

It's either in you or it ain't. For some it's a hobby or a sport, for me it's a way of life. God willing, I'll have a good cur dog or two in my yard till I can no longer walk or ride behind them ;)

been there done that and it is a hard place to be...lots of thinking , contemplating....

you hit the nail right on the head...I got out in 2007 after retirement and sold 3 top 1 year old pups for 500 dollars package deal and gave others away... I am talking about those kind that aren't for sale.

Been trying to get back in for several years and here it is going to be 2012 and just now feel I will have some decent dogs. I remember back when I was trying to get in and it was a hard go because A good line of dogs was hard to find back then that was used strictly for hogs. I learned back then that the best dogs and the highest satisfaction comes from breeding our own line of dogs...

This time around I will hunt once a week and only keep 5 dogs to keep my costs down...still want to breed my own dogs because that is where its at for me...

 i been doin this for 35 years and i know for a fact if i go out tonight and catch a good hog it feels just like it was my first one. i did take a 5 year break of ownin my own dogs and huntin every week about 15 years ago but i never quit goin. heck i call my huntin partner if he dont call me first and listen to how the hunts went when i dont go. i have been on so many that i can live all them hunts  just by him tellin me about em.  heck i ve had em call me when i dont go just so i can listen to the bay. heck i buy doggin videos of folks i have no idea who they are just cuz i love seein the dogs at work and catchin hogs.

I'll hunt hogs with dogs until I die out or just get too crippled up to go. I cannot imagine even the thought of quitting.  You want to know what is painful .....having the will and the drive to go and having two places within an hour drive to hunt...and only one of those has hogs on it all the time but you can only hunt it with a friend that doesn't want to hunt very often......now that's my idea of misery.....shame on you that have good places to hunt near home...that you can hunt at will....you should thank the Good Lord.....I'm off the soapbox now....

my old hunting partner calls me and gives me the blow by blow hunt...like a good movie playin in my head...kinda like visualizing some good dogs in the woods and we are telling the story as they hunt...

i think the best one i recall was a few years back a friend had borrowed a strike dog from my hunting partner and went by himself one night.  he got on a big boar and called dean on his cell phone and dean in turn called me on his house phone so i could listen also. well the dogs were screamin their heads off on a brute and then he said im settin the phone down as im gonna shoot this hog( he didnt have a bulldog) then kaboom and he got back on and said hes done and hes a dandy then went to checkin the dogs and all were clean. then he goes uho i see lights on at the nearest house.  he wasnt supposed to hutn at night and kinda snuck in this place,lol. well then pretty soon he called us back as he was draggin the hog out and said he could see a game warden truck down on the county road . well they ran him all thru that valley for over 4 hours till he finnally made it back to his home. it was just like i was there but i couldnt get in any trouble and wasnt whooped from all the runnin lol.

You are burnt out, stack everything sell off if you cant stand looking at it but whatever get something else to, its very normal and typical to feel like this, I have had it and seen others with it, the ones who get over it find something else to do and come back later, it does not take anything to start over once you have done it yourself, you owe yourself a break, find something new out of the box to do or explore, staying in too long will drive you crazy, hogs dont make money and the time hunting them takes up is marriage breaking or personal madness sometimes for sure, down here there are 10 new hog hunters everytime i look at dog boxes at the prison parking lot, ther are 50 less places to go hog hunting and 50 more poacher types, heck i get asked to slip in on 3 of our owned ranches by some who dont know who i am or what we still ownlol  I would take my self to a huge book and magazine store and buy 30 new hobby magazines and read what others are doing you would never in a million years expore due to the hog hunting demands, you might even do some charity work for homelss or the poor or sick or aged, u never hear them gripe they are so happy to get helped, you might train drug dogs or dead body recovery or just take the dogs to a nursing home or something i its just the hunting, good luck and dont burn yourself all the way out,,,,,,

I learned years ago that a man can get so wound up in it that it takes a lot of the fun out of it if not most of it.  So wound up about breedings , so wound up about having the best dogs out of all your friends and every were you go, so wound up about having this are that, that people forget they are suppose to be doing this for fun and because they love it and enjoy it, not because it is a competition with yourself and others.  Ive seen great dogs come from Multi Millionaires and I have seen just as great of dogs come from dirt poor country boys,  seen them come from great breeders and I have seen them come from people that didn't know the first thing about breeding just put two dogs together and I have even seen them come off the street, there is always a better dog somewere man .  Find yourself a happy medium and things will be a whole lot better thats what I did.

I've been there to were it consumes you and all the sudden its more like a full time job and loosing's its enjoyment.   So now a days I know I got a good line of dogs , I know were ever I go my dogs are going to find hogs if they are there some spots make a dog look great that couldnt find a hog in a tuff spot know what I mean.  I know when I make certain breedings what is coming out of them so I don't worry about it no more I just go and have fun and enjoy it like it was meant to be .  I've lost great dogs and soon learned not to fret over it its just part of the deal and move on to the next ones coming up .  Thats why if I have a dog that is what I want I tend to put them up and use them for brood and hunt their offspring that way I always got more coming to replace them.  Anyway man when it gets to be bothering you like that and feels more like work, then that is what told me hey I need to take a step back and put things in perspective and I did and have not had to worry about it any more.  A mans gonna have what a man is gonna have.

Good luck just take a deep breath think about it.

Excellent thought Bryant...

I know I've thought about it many a time.

I have battled with the loss factor in this sport and cannot say what I would do for sure should I eventually get my slate wiped clean...

What I do know is... for me, it is all about watching an animal progress... Whether it be horse, dog, or child.... I just absolutely love watching them catch on and show me something amazing... a developing mind is like a blank canvas... more often than not, truly original things emerge when you simply give a being the chance to figure out how to do things their own way... put them in the situation, stay the hell out of the way, and sit back and learn something...

.. If it's not kids, horses, or hogdogs... it'll be something else... It's just what makes life worth living for me.

It's my therapy and serenity; my pain and love, but that is what life is about so just enjoy the highs and the lows or it isn't life as far as I know.

Joey

Everybody gets disgusted sometimes ! It's also my therapy! It  keeps me from going postal  ;D

well seein right now that im out of the sport i can finally see why i did what i did, why i got up at 4 am when i had trouble gettin up at 7 for school, or when i hated workin on a car but loved to stitch up a dog in a heartbeat, come home covered in blood, muddy, soaked to the bone or just plum tired only to get up and do it again the next day.

i see it as my heritage almost, i was born with a gun in my hand, seriously.... it was a family outtin we would do for 4th of july and thanksgiving, its my addiction but it keeps my sanity, its like that hot donut you just saw being made and knowin that "thats my donut", and that first bite into it would be the best

You're 5.0  .... ain't you....  ;D

no sir i just like donuts  :P

HAHA!  That's funny right there  ;D ;D

I've always loved dogs. When I started gettin' in a lil trouble I had to find something to occupy my mind and along came hog doggin'. I enjoy raisin' pups and seein' how they progress and just all the things I've learned in the 2 yrs of doggin' I have. Most of it coming from this site. Wether it's a problem with a pup or why you couldn't get a boar shut down to just Life in general this site has been shared by a wide variety of different personalities and backgrounds but all come here for the common good of helping others. This is what I have seen in this site. I've can't say that I've ever owned a salty hit the ground runnin, huntin', hoggin' machine. But life will give ya lemons and you just gotta make some lemonade. I don't have the best land to hunt, Have invested more time and money then I ever thought I would on dogs. People think I'm plumb nuts BUT I'm enjoying every moment good and bad. Quite a few of my life lessons have been learned from watching dogs mature and grow that you have put the time and effort into. Not just hand over some money and go catch pigs but when I do catch a good hog it's super rewarding.

Sure it's not all fine and dandy but if it wasn't doggin' I know where my money would be goin' and thinking about that just drives me harder to just keep doin' what I'm doing and improve and live life to the fullest.

Hope thangs get better for ya bryant. Don't make it a have to let it be a want to feeling and enjoy the good times and learn from the bad times.

Bryant, satisfaction is greatest from accomplishing difficult deeds. Not the easy ones. Nobody likes loosing good dogs but it is part of what we do. And you know that.

BeCause the Voices in mY heAd wOn't let me STOP!!

;D ;D ;D

 Bryant, I'm not sure why anyone would stay in this game or any other game like this for that matter. All I know is that we do. I have been around this game for a long time but in the last few years decided to get into it and leave the other game I was into behind. That was probably one of the best decisions I have made, not only for me but also my family. I understand losing those really good dogs, and I also know it don't get any easier with time. Each time you lose one like that you start to question yourself and your decision to hunt that dog, and whether or not you could have changed the outcome if you had done something different. I have learned to enjoy the time we have them and realize that it could be our last hunt together anytime I take the dog out. I try not to think about the investment I have in everything, I really don't want to put a number to it. I can only imagine what the numbers would be. But like alot of other people have said, if it wasn't this it would be something else and quite possibly something that cost more than this one.

Bryant, I feel your Frustration, I am kinda leaning on that point. I have been keeping 30 dogs for the past 10 years. When places to hunt are hard to find, the feed is expensive, the flea control is ridiculous, the FRICKEN laws about housing, caring and breeding our dogs are against us, when you got to wake up and realize is todays  struggle, and is the enjoyment out weight the Grief? I know the heat wave,  plays a role in this too.

asking Will we have to hire a lawyer this coming year because I want to breed two litters this  next year? will I have a place to hunt them after raises them for a year and all that?

Several of the dogs are old, a couple can't even hunt, got a few pups coming up, but Its just hard to think about the future of the hunting with the dogs in general and where its gong.


 

x2...we are losing ground every year in more ways than one...

It's amazing how many times this has ever crossed our minds. My brother stopped hunting over7 yrs ago but when he and I get together to  hunt I see the light in his eyes. It's a game. We love the game and always will, we lose sight and fall astray at times but that  feeling you get sown deep in your gut everytime your dogs strike or catch never leaves you it's the fire that keeps us going everyday. Things lose their luster although they stay with you forever.

I was raised doing it, and there are dang sure lots of reasons to keep on doing it.  Sure there are more and more things now days that make it more difficult to do.  Loosing places, hot weather, drought, more and more hog hunters every year putting pressure on fewer and fewer places, increased regulation on hunting and raising dogs, ect. ect.  But I will never quit for those reasons.  

Why I keep doing it.

Getting a rush never was a big deal to me.  I was raised hunting with dogs and it is exciting but also just normal for me.  Never really has been a rush.  Here's why I do it.  Working with dogs. Rasing dogs.  Continuing a tradition.  Maintaining health with good enjoyable, non-repetative physical activity.  Spending time with family and friends.  Putting food on the the table and the table of others.  Teaching the younger generations life lessons throgh taking them hunting.  Learning about how hard work pays off.  learning how to build and maintain personal relationships or business partnerships through interaction with freinds and landowners.  How to work together as a team.  Responsibility and how to take care of personal property, exspecially when it is not yours.  The circle of life.  How to deal with Personal loss.  How to stand strong in a difficult situation.  Problem solving skills.  How to rise up to a challenge.  Patience.  Planning ahead.    Harvesting your own food.  Protecting crops.  I could go on and on.  These are all things I learned about through hog hunting at a young age and all things that I enjoy giving young people the oportunity to learn about.  Also, it is good for me to take the oportunity and reinforce those lessons in my self.

I think it is very easy to go overboard.  Spend too much money on hog hunting, and get way to wrapped up in it.  I personally find very easy to become overly concerned about my success on a hunt.  If the dogs don't work how I want them to,  Busted bays,  or  if can't seem to get a hog bayed are all things that can't really get to me and I will let it spoil a hunt more than it should.  It has exspecially become appearent to me when I almost dont even enjoy huting with my self over the past year or so.  But this drought and not really hunting much has put a good perspective on things for me.  When the weather moderates am going to hit the woods as much as I can and be a bit more laid back and patient about things.

A little moderation and going about things in a sustainable way is a good way to approach all things in life.  Including hog hunting.  Perhaps you need to get back to your roots Bryant and just take a few dogs and a gun.  You certainly would loose allot less dogs to hog injuries and with fewer dogs on the ground there is less chance for unusual accidents.

Waylon

I also have experienced the downfalls of this sport due to losing many dogs throughout several decades now. I have attempted to remedy the situation lightly by keeping all the dogs in stages of age and training. I never hunt two lead strike dogs at the same time so when the inevitable happens it doesn't close you out completly. Placement of bloodlines with close friends along with always having another youngster comin in behind to immediatly take up the lead if the old man falls.

As far as the land issue goes...I have always went far out of my way to do the right things by landowners. If a law one day prohibits me from running game with dogs...guess I will then become an outlaw...this is who I am and I have ran dogs my entire life along with several previous generations of my family.

The hard knocks come usually all at once brotha. Hang in there cause the good ones will come and go just like the culls.

Same here  8)