EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I was just wondering what everyone thought about them. I have been hearing a lot of rumors lately that they have been supporting/pushing many of the new anti-hunting regulations, especially anti-hound hunting.

Does anyone else know anything about this?

Id like to hear what they are up to.

We use them and have a great agent and they are cheap and pay out on claims extremely fast from what I have heard. 

I know people in charge of the Farm Bureau in another state. I know they hunt and want to hunt hogs with dogs. Because they asked to go hunt with me the other day.

"The Farm Bureau Insurance company is the enemy of the hound hunters. They stood up at the meeting in Jackson and stated that they supported whatever the TWRA wanted to do and where 100% behind them in the fight against the hunters. If you have Farm Bureau insurance you need to be reconsidering your coverage and letting your local agents know what you think about their stance against the hunters."

This is a quote from the UKC forum about the new hog hunting laws in Tennessee.

I don't know that these are facts, just rumors.

Also I have heard rumors that they have been behind making it illegal to retrieve your dogs without contacting the landowner in a few states.

Again, only rumors...

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=35577.0

This is a link talking about Farm Bureau in Oklahoma.

http://bullseyeblog1.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-farm-bureau-finds-an-ally-in-its-fight-against-sunday-hunting-the-animal-rights-lobby/

Article about Farm Bureau against Sunday hunting.

Well crap then I need to set up a hunt for those boys! I don't have any fancy places. I don't have insurance through them they are a client. If anyone has a place to entertain a couple guys from the Farm Bureau and show them what it is all about let me know and I will send them an invitation. Just spoke to them yesterday. They are not in Texas but they are in the same company that is in Texas and a few other states. I never really paid attention to where all they had offices. But I would be happy to see if they come or were just all talk if someone can handle it.

I was at the crossville meeting, and I would say theres alot of truth to it. Thats the impression I got from the rep. They sent, he tried to play both sides, but it was very obvious where he stood. He went on about how a wild boar "ALLEGEDLY" got in with some domestic sows on a pig farm and spread some kind of disease, but had ABSOLUTELY "0" facts or proof of this, he just knew thats what happened.
    The twra keeps screaming about the spread of disease to pig farms,  WHAT PIG FARMS?  Swaggerty farms has to have tractor trailer loads of pigs shipped in because there aint any hog farms in Tn.  I heard a deal on the radio this mornin about agricultural. And they were talkin about the new changes in the law.
     About how the land owners NOW had all these new ways to kill hogs, like baiting and trapping, spotlight, nightvision. The land owners have been able to do all this for yrs.  Just had to get permit.
    They keep saying that we have had such liberal hunting seasons, but that was still hunting, not with dogs. They are against dog hunters, period.
   We shot there so called facts, all to pieces, caught them in several lies. There is much more to this than what their sayin. Plus the fact they just put in some feller from NY over it, if that tells you anything.

my family always knew the farm breau supported anti hunters, we dont mess with them

I don't know where Farm Bureau stands  on hunting but they suck for an insurance co. I use to have them for home and auto coverage until a tornado totally wiped me
out. They wouldn't cover anything and trued to  weasel out if it totally.
I would love to take the agent and the adjuster for a hunt ,if ya know what I mean. >:D

I haven't heard this about FB, but it doesn't surpise me at all. I know that what Tom says happened in Crossville you can take to the bank....he was there, I know that. So it would appear that FB is NOT for the hunters, and certainly not the dog men. I'm not for sure about where Allstate stands on this, I need to check....I've had them for over 25 years both home and auto, had a bad fire years ago at my house....Allstate could not have been any better to me.....they were great, had me a check for expenses the next day. I was extrememly impressed with their service.....don't think I'll be changing anytime soon.

x2 on allstate, they acutally wrote me a check when my hunting truck was stolen and wrecked so there maybe some good stuff outta there

Farm Bureau wont even insure my grain trucks anymore, wtf over???  Does not surprise me at all really, they have a huge staff, collect dues and have meetings where they eat off of members money, the magazine they have is retarded its so out of date, its really a bunch of wall street bean counters and shysters acting as good ol boys with a name only, check your rates against other insurers, they are always higher if they even insure you in the first place, they have been on 60 minutes about finanical questions and why dont represent the members, most members have no clue and think its a good old time business, i canceled them out when they would not insure a mack truck used to haul grain off of our ranches, same way with hunting insurance, they dont sell outfitting insurance for day hunting dove or hogs, so no surprize they hate dog hunting, every see them selling anything you really need for a ranch or hunting, goes to show ya, boycott them for being too high and out of touch with hunters, have not used them for many many years, shop around and see who has best bargin and best customer service its our money until we give it to them for dog hunting hating!!!!!!

That would explain all the empty space in their office building rolleyes

I'll chime in with my experience with the OK Farm Bureau insurance. I have worked in body shops for 11 yrs now, and the farm bureau is one of THE worst to deal with.  If we get a farm bureau claim we can count on it being close to two weeks before they will come out and write or approve an estimate. All the while the customer is calling wanting to know why we haven't start work on their car yet. And we write our sheets high for them just because we know that when they do finally come out that they will come in and cut it to pieces and try to throw any aftermarket or used parts in that they can. I have no experience with FB insurance outside of a body shop, but I know from my experiences there that I would not give them my money for insurance. And from my experiences in the shop, for ya'll that have had good experiences with Allstate, I think you are pretty lucky. They are another one that I absolutely can not stand to deal with.

who do you prefer to deal with?

In my experiences, State Farm is the absolute best to deal with. They try to haggle a little bit to cut costs, which is there job I guess, but they also are willing to do what they can to try to get the job out the door and keep the customer happy as fast as they can. Liberty Mutual and Shelter are also some of the bigger ones that are super easy to deal with. Those would be my top three to deal with that I do business with on a regular basis. In my opinion, most of the other companies just look at the bottom line. They will come in and try to cut an estimate to pieces, with little consideration of their customer. I am sorry but with the ridiculous prices of insurances, I would like to think that they would fight for me a little bit. But I have seen new model cars get wrecked with less than 500 miles, and their insurance companies will put used or aftermarket parts on the car. To me that is not what we pay insurance for. With some of the lesser companies, if the customer, throws a big enough bitch fit, they will get their way. But I dont think it should have to come to that. To put it simply, I prefer the ones that do business with their customers in mind. Makes it much easier on my part when the insurance company is on board to try and make the customer happy. And the three I listed are tops at that. There are a few smaller companies who are good that I deal with on smaller basis, but those are the biggest ones that I deal with on a regular basis.

I may have to switch to state farm, they send stuff infused mail all the time. What about direct  ins?

i think state farm is alittle pricey and they dont cover as much as allstate

X2 on State Farm. Been with them for 15 years and they have treated me good.

I had someone hit me and they had State Farm. I wanted to get an estimate to make sure I did not get taken. The shop said to go see State Farm and what ever they gave me they would fix the car for because State Farm treated people right. They are pricey but I guess you get what you pay for. It just makes me mad when I have to fight the company I pay to do what they should do. I absolutly hate insurance companies. Even mine.

    I still don't see the reason why yall hate farm bureau in Oklahoma for backing the dog bill. I stand firm on that no one has the right to enter property they don't have permission to be on. Plain and simple.

 Here is a discussion about the issue of Farm Bureau and permission to retrieve your dog. From what I can tell, its not about permission, its about having written permission or else the state can issue the hunter a ticket.

 http://forums.huntingboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31345

I have seen some smart dogs that can do lots of things but I have never seen one that knows what a property line is. I understand what you are saying because there are some fence jumpers. But the law goes to far. If I am hunting and my dog gets lost that is not trespessing. Poaching should be handled as poaching. I just see the law being abused by people that don't like dogs. I don't live on Oklahoma so I am not worried about it but I still don't like it. We don't need knew laws there are too many to remember now.

No one has the right to come onto my property no matter what the reason may be. Do you let your neighbors walk in your yard?  If your dogs cross the fence call them back or wait. I like the law.

I don't want anyone but myself to have the RIGHT to be on my property. Simple as that...

Your dog gets on my place, either slip in and take the risk of being prosecuted, or come knock on my door an ask to retrieve your dog.

I personally get permission to recover my dogs when I can. If your dog is on my yard I expect you to get it if it does not come when you call it. If I have to deal with it we both won't be happy. My dogs have gone in my neighbors yard and his over here. If either of us are not home we put the others dogs back. We also go look at the fences and pens and help each other keep our dogs in our yards. Because we are both responsible people we don't have problems. I can call my dogs off if they can hear me. I agree with what you say I just don't like the law.

I think it is not responsible to let your dogs run around someones property. If my dog is on your land should I just leave it and let it damage property. I feel that I am responsible for any damage so it is my responsiblity to get my dog off your land to prevent it if possible. I am serious about trash breaking but what if I don't know you have domestic pigs. should I let them bay your pigs if they can't hear me? I should get in there and get my dogs as quickly as possible to prevent injury to your animals and damage to your property. How many dog owners would see the problem and just walk away and leave the dog? It would be the responsible owner going to get their dog and take care of any problems. I know for a fact their are some daddy didn't marry mommas that will see their dogs that they did not spend anytime time working and trash breaking chasing a cow through a fence and just jump in their truck and leave. So you have an injured cow, broken fence, and a dog with no name on it that ain't worth the bullet to shoot. That is the person they need to go after. Pass a law that requires your name and phone number on any hunting dog.

If you have any utility company service they have the right to come upon your property without notice, we have a ranch next to a prison, they have the right to come onto the ranch as well if there is an escape without notice, same way with about any emergency service providers, a surveyor has the right to come onto your property if it is over a boundary survey, a member of a water district inspection or irragation district, a powerline utility has the right to come upon your property to acess another memebers property, a state judge can order the sheriff or land division commissioners to go upon your property to divide up a undivided ranch between the owners who are in dispute, all of these have legal rights to enter, harassing, locking them out blocking the road etc etc is a felony in some cases, try locking out a game warden, they get to cut locks all the time over this mistaken idea that no one has the right to enter others property without permssion or notice???  Maybe you meant your neighbors or something i missed in these posts??

That's a joke right? Easements are in deeds.  Why would you even include emergency personal? 

Well stated dub.  ;)

So for those of you who feel that no one has the right to retrieve their property from your land without your immediate permission, what would you suggest in this scenario?

A person is hog hunting on a nearby property and their dogs cross your property line and bays 100 yards from the line at 2 AM. This person attempts to call the dogs off with no luck.

Should this person:
A. Cross the fence and quickly retrieve his dogs
B. Wake you to obtain permission (at 2 AM)

I understand your side that you wouldn't want people snooping on your property or even illegally hunting it, but that in my opinion is completely different than retrieving a dog. If the person is retrieving a dog then they should have no gun, knife, or even hobbles. The only thing they should have is a leash.

Either option is fine with me... Just don't bitch if I happen to wake up on the wrong side of the bed while you are on my property in the middle of the night without permission.

That said, I am not going to pretend I have never crossed a fence to retrieve a dog. It's a risk I take. If I happen to get caught, I'll take the ticket. If I can get ahold of the landowner, I'll do that.   What I don't want, is any outlaw hog dogger to have the RIGHT to come on to my property to retrieve their dog.

I agree, but an "outlaw hog dogger" is not what I would call retrieving a dog. That is more like backdoor hunting, but the laws are always open to interpretation...

I would have no problem with someone retrieving their dogs from my property without permission, but it isn't right for someone to try to use this loophole to try to hunt without permission.

I drop everything at the fence except for dog leads and my phone even with permission. I don't want anyone to think I am hunting. If a landowner is mad he can yell all he wants and call the law too. When he calms down he will know I was doing the right thing. If I get a ticket I won't be mad but I will fight it.

 Well good luck prosecuting someone for treaspassing. A few years ago we had a drug addict climbing over our fences to gather mushrooms out of the cow patties. We called the law and they just laughed and said that there wasn't much they could do. My husband chased the guy down and found out who it was and told the dude that if he caught him back on our property that he was going to tote an azz whoopin. The law still didn't do anything. A few nights later he was in our neighbors pasture doing the same thing and our neighbor stepped out on his front porch with a shotgun and shot out above the guy to pepper him. He didn't come back after that. But my point is that the law didn't do a thing about it. However, we live in Liberty County. >:(

It takes one bad apple. That one bad apple has already ruined it for the rest. For every one person who is just getting his dog there are two people jumping that fence to hunt under the same pretense.  Cattle rustlers and hog hunters hunting illegally brought this law . Just like people having 20 dogs with out the means to care for them will bring on new laws in the future.
 No ones rights should over power land owners when it comes to who is on their property. If you are not for the bill you just might be the people it is written for. Think about it.

I hope you are not trying to make accusations against me because I am against bills such as this.
Just because I want the right to legally retrieve my property does not mean that I am an outlaw.

they are tring to past the sme law here in oklahoma to. so what is it going to take to get them to back off of it . it is not the people that hunt truthfuly it is the people that hunt from the roads and the people that steal and tear or people land.

That law was already passed here in TN. Not sure about if FB played any role in it though, but I imagine they did.

That is a bold statement to make. You just spit on a lot of boots with that.

cantexduck what do you work for farm bureau  or what everytime someone has anything to say about the bill you stand up for farm bureau. there is other was this could be taken care of. it is not the land owners that live close or live own the land that cause us hunters problem it is the land owners that own land that live in the big city and  that do not farm or raise crops that raise a big deal about it all.the city people that owns the want the hogs on them to hunt. the people that i have talk to about hunting the land that i hunt dont care but it is the one's that live in the city that are the butts about it all. the farmers that i hunt around or on do not care about me going and getting my dogs because it is helping them out from the hogs tearing up there land. them passing this bill still will not stop the cattle rustlers and the theives and the road hunters. it only hurts the true hunters and dog owners that enjoy the sports of hunting with dogs.

I am for landowners rights. My dog going on some ones property doesn't give me the right to jump a fence. If you can't keep your dog on land you can access then don't hunt there. I know outlaws will always be outlaws. This way at least they won't have an excuse when they get caught. I work a full time job for an explosive company and work part time one two high fence ranches. No one has any right to be on our place . I don't care what they are doing. With 100000 worth of exotics we don't want some guy coming in and leaving a gate open or climbing our fence snapping wires.

People who don't have the ba!!s to police themselves are the ones that need the government to do it for them.  The outlaws will always be outlaws, they dont need an excuse.  Its the honest man that gets burned by big government and situations like this.

Waylon

 

  Fire department has the legal right to enter without permission, are they emergency yes or no, you are clearly not aware of the law in Texas, how about when the jets over hear crash and the US Navy drive over or cut the gates to reach a plane crash on a deer ranch, there are many legal reasons and protected by jail time and fines from interferring with emergency personell, just because a deer fence is up does not have anything to do with their right to enter your property without permission, look it up in the Texas penal codes if you dont believe me,   we have had 911 mapping people as well enforce this right to map the buildings on the ranch and prison guards have the right to enter our ranch and map barns houses structures in case of a prison break, has nothing to do with a easment, its Texas law and you know what they say on those signs "Dont Mess with Tecksus!!!LOL"  I dont like it either but it is the law

The difference is that I can understand your point of view but you can't even understand someone else's. That requires a level of understanding you don't seem capable of.

I am still not a fan of the Farm Bureau.

But also be real careful shooting at people. Even if someone is trespassing in your field you can't shoot them. But if you shoot at them and they feel that their life is in immanent danger they can shoot back and kill you. Then they can only go to jail for trespassing. In Texas not too long ago a man and his wife shot people for trespassing. I do not think they have gone on trial but I would expect the death penalty for the land owners.

I find State Farm very  accomadating.My house  burned a few years ago on a tuesday evening & state farm had a near new mobile home parked in my yard on thursday for me and family to live in while my house was repaired.

Dub, thank you for the in sight. I bet you use to want to be a lawyer. Law school is hard. In Texas the castle doctrine gives you the right to use deadly force to protect your person and property. Also covers you to protect your neighbors.
 I am sure most land owners will agree with the law.

You better read the castle doctrine again. I did go to law school. I think you need to consult a lawyer to clear it up for you. I paid way too much to for my education to give free advice.

Before I go spend my time pulling up case law, what firm do you work for? I mean you did pass the bar ,right?

c duck u would be 1 of the good ole boys every one that does right  inhunting AS long as it pertains to YOUR MAGICAL DOGS.must be boot lickers ?.cause most people i know with HOG DOGS the dogs dont read and dont know what "GET OFF THAT MANS PROPERTY <IGNANT MUTT CANT YOU READ"
 you protect them HIGH dollaR exotits BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT .A MAN THAT LOVES HIS DOGS  you won't like him when U get between him and his dogs .looked back all your posts and pretty much u would be a guy I WOULD LOVE 2 GO HUNTIN WITH
sorry ladies and gents of this forum just my feelings  hope i can teach my dogs to read outside a high fence

I bet the majority of ya'll that are bitching about this dont own the land you are hunting on, do you?

I would bet that if ya'll did, you would have a different opinion on this subject. Sure, it was a nice law to have to be able to get your dogs without asking permission from somebody, but i'm sure it has been abused to where the landowners wanted something done. Doesn't matter if the person lives on it or in the big city, they own it, and it is their right to do what they want with it.

You are funny. You insult me and many other people then you act like a baby. Clearly you do not have a clue what you are talking about. You obviously do not know me. I stopped trying to impress people a long time ago. Are you in high school or just act like it? I said I see your point and understand it but have a different opinion. You pulled out the law and have it wrong. So I think you should share your legal experience. BTW not everyone goes to law school to be a lawyer. There is a benefit to knowledge and understanding but clearly you would not know that. It was law school that allows me to see things from your point of view however skewed it may be. Maybe if for some reason I ever feel the need to impress you I will list my degrees, where I have worked, and some of the people I have met. But as far as I can tell you are not on the list of people who's opinions matter to me. But at least I understand your opinion about people tespassing and many people hold the same views that you do. I can also respect that opinion.

You do have to have permission to touch anyone's property. I have no problem with then writing tickets either. I speed and if I get a ticket speed then I will pay it. If I get a ticket trespassing I will pay it. I will never get mad at a land owner for telling me no. I even get permission ahead of time to retrieve a deer should it ever be needed. I have been told no and I have the GW's number so I han can assist me in retrieving my deer. I handle things through with the law not against it. I sit around and complain about a lot of laws just ask my wife. But if I like them or not does not matter I will follow them or take my punishment. If I think something is wrong I will fight it in court not on the side of the road or in a field. If you shoot at me expect me to shoot back and I am a pretty good shot. If you trespass expect people not to be happy with you. But if people would just behave in a civil manner then there would not be as many problems. It is the outlaws that cause the problems and they should be the ones in trouble.

I do not see deer hunters getting treated the way dog hunters are treated. I have seen more deer poachers. You are going to tell me high fence ranch worries about dogs more than the other poachers? They can fly helicopters over your land and run the hogs out but I can't go get my dog? I would bet money that if we were sitting down talking about this in person it would make more sense. I think we are all saying the same things from a different view point. I hate the trespassers leaving trash. My problem is with fisherman that don't realize the shore is not public land. But if someone pulls theur boat up and gets off I am not going to shoot them even if they dump trash too. Kids cut through all the time should I shoot them? I don't live there so they can't come knock on my door. I have to pick up their trash and I am not wanting them to even get a ticket. I would like them to pick up their own trash.

All this going back n forth is crazy. The law breakers r still gonna trespass even though this law was passed. I can assure u that we will go get our dogs but no fence cutting or gate opening. As for high fences.... How the hell would a dog get n there if u are maintaining them properly to protect your 100000 exotics??? Give me a break and go hug a tree already. Shoot at me buddy for Gettin my dogs n u better b duckin n dodgin cuz I will defend myself n my property right back. The LAW says I can.

imo think that post was alittle uncalled for. im not gonna play ref or try and start somethin here but he was just stating his opinion. but you do have a point you can protect yourself UNDER CERTAIN TERMS and the law always has a way with both parties, the law states that use of deadly force can only be used when a intrusion turns to a hostile attack. Also in general, (one) or a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine:

-An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
-The intruder must be acting illegally—e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to attack officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties
-The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home
-The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary
-The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force
-The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty) *(copied from a law site)*

In other words if im carefully but casually making my way to your house with a cd in tow to ask you permission if i can retrieve my dog that i trained from a pup and dont wanna lose it. and you shoot me before asking questions and thinkin that im up to no good. i hope you would kill me with the first shot ;)

carry on

Oops would that mean if you shoot someone picking things out of cow poop you are not protected? It is also not for you to decide. First the DA decides what they think. If they disagree you go to court. Do you know how much it costs to get a lawyer for pre trial work. If you go to court it will not be cheap even if you win. You better believe that if you don't shoot you will be dead if not you will be broke and maybe in prison.

In Texas if you shoot at someone you have met all the requirements for thier defense if they kill you.

I think this thread has run its course....

If yall want to continue arguing take it up in private.