EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I read more and more stories of people turning their catch dogs loose from 50+ yards, 100+ yards etc, 200 yards, etc.. And more often then not, when a CD is killed on this site by a hog, it's usually been turned loose from a good distance away. Not always, there are exceptions to everything but in general.

1.) My question is how many people actually know what there dogs are bayed in before they turn loose??? It seems more and mre ppl just cut their CD loose as soon as they hear a bay. 

 We 95% of the time know where the hog is bayed before cutting them loose. ( for example in a wash out or deep creek the lariot rope comes out, and the cd is saved from getting his world rocked in close quarters or a bad spot)

2.) how many people want "holding power" (bigger cd's), vs just any size dog that catches (for example 45# pit bull)??

Over the last 5 years we've caught hundreds of hogs per year and I can probably count on both hands how many times we used 2 cd's. I've always thought and been taught you just need a distraction to catch the hog. Not a horse of a dog holding him down for you. That's why with Cutters and Ninja's "hat trick" you don't even need a CD :)

hahaha i done forgot , what is the hat trick ?

No don't know where the hog is before cutting loose to me that is the cds job.  Not expendable but usable.  Yes I like a bigger cd 65 plus enough leg to keep their feet on the ground on 99 percent of hogs.

i like to walk in the bay with the catch dog i dont turn my cd loose far away i want to know what there are getting in to. As far as catch dog size i take 2 catch dogs with me both are around 45 pound pits but if i can rope the hog i will do it first

I won't even lie, that is all John.

To me, it all depends on a few different things....

I prefer to be within about 50 yards or so and like running 2 cds...
I like them to be around 40 -50 pounds to maneuver good in the thick spots...

Daytime, i like to walk in and see the bay...
Night time, depends on what kind of terrain we are in...

Also depends on if the hog bays up good or if it breaks and bays over and over...
If it keeps breaking when we get close we may cut one loose alittle farther out to try and
shut it down... but try not to make a habit of it...

The other night my pup got on a hog and ran it about a mile one way, bayed for a while, broke and ran
a mile the opposite direction, and finally bayed again... took us 2 hours to catch up to her after she struck, and i knew she was bayed in the creek.... cut the cds loose from about 100 yards ( 50# pit and ~110# bulldog/dogo ) and hauled azz behind them... There was a tree that had fallen away from the dried creek bank with a hole that went about 15 yards back.. luckily it was a sow about 100 pounds... if it had been a good boar we would have been in deep doo doo.... we had dogs behind her, on top of her, under her... could have been a wreck...  :-\

Twillbanks: those are all situations we've turned Cd's loose early. Broken bays, knowing it's just a sow or small boar hog..

Been in that same situation with a cave except it was a 340# Barr and we had to dig a hole in the bank above to get a rope on him.

I'm not knocking the 2 cd's or a big dog.. Just getting everyone's take an perspective on it. I've yet to see a CD get killed in the woods by a hog and trying to better grasp how so many ppl get theirs killed

I like to see the dogs work the hog. Enjoy the dogs working then. Turn catch dog loose when as close as possible. It don't always work out that way though.

Excellent subject matter brother...  ;)

As always, it would vary by how and where a person hunts... whether your bay dogs help catch or don't... etc...  BUT AS FOR ME  ;D .....

I prefer not to send my CD in from distance, UNLESS I know my cur dog is already caught, in which case I'll usually send in the anchor as soon as they can hear it...  If they are baying... I will get as close as possible, so as I can get in and help my dogs once they commit... as you stated, most bad damage happens when they been caught on a bad one too long... which I aim to prevent by how I hunt...

I like to see where they are bayed at before I cut a CD into them...  we got some bad spots that you just don't want to send a catch dog into(let alone go in after them) to cut one in blind.... blown over trees make for some bad, water/mud filled caves that are no fun to go into after a bad one....  wild cattle is another reason I always like to see what I am turning into... you never know...  :o ;D

As I have developed my style with the dogs/terrain I have to work with, I have learned to appreciate a big catch dog... 98% of the time I don't even need a catch dog... my dogs are plenty rough when they see me... however, for that 2% when I get lucky enough to bay one up that might could do some serious damage... sure makes me feel alot better runnin' into a catch knowing I got a dog that can control a big hog from shaking dogs loose... not to mention the decrease in injury to my cur dogs since I began using this type of CD... the sheer mass of the dog cuts down of the "flailing/thrashing" aspect of bay dogs gettin' cut after the catch... worth it's weight in GOLD to me  ;)

As for catch dog etiquette... I have a lot to say on the subject... when hunting with others... it is always a touchy subject with me....  a good catch dog is a valuable asset, and many do not appreciate the amount of work that goes into making a good one...  my catch dogs know how to work with my dogs.... they know each other well and help protect each other and me.

I see other hunters ask me to send my catch dog to theirs occasionally.... which I have no problem with if I know your dogs and know they will keep the hog bayed and help my CD when he gets there...   What I don't like is when people ask me to send my catch dog "to stop" a hog for their bay dogs.... my CD's are NOT meant to stop a hog, the bay dogs should take care of that.

If I know you have a bay dog/catch dog team of your own that I know functions the same as mine, of course I have no problem using my catch dog if needed.... common courtesy.   Otherwise... no thanks, I'm not risking getting my CD hurt to make up for your chitty bay dogs.

... have pissed a few people off over the years sticking to this idea.... oh well.

Weve only been running one cd ( 50# pit ) on alot of hunts since i lost my other to heatstroke... he gets the job done, but i like having the extra insurance of 2 cds..... most of the time we dont need them, but when we do they are there....

well me personally when i know its a strong solid bay ill let the catchdog go from 100+ but however that depends on the dogs that are holding this bay together as well...
when we bring a rougher gritty crew i know that the sec the hogs caught the other dogs are on it like white on rice so no problem.
but when were working younger dogs,nighttime exceptions, etc i like to see it or know what im dealing with first..

At night its completly different. I sent my catch dog when ever im kinda close but not right on top of them. But in the day light i can normally see the hog and if it looks like a bad spot ill break it somtimes. I do like sending 2 xatch dogs if im hunting with some one else but i hunt alot by my self and cant lead two of them. I like two bull dogs because i normally only have a old dog or maybe 2 and 1 pup. My good dogs roll out most of the time and dont help catch some time and its hard for a 45lbs pit to hold a big hog by its self.

Very Good post TShelly. I am curious to hear the answers after listening to so many make complaints about vest getting cut through, I ask myself that same thing. "turning loose" at a few barks and not even knowing if they got a bay, wondering if some know the difference between a bay and barking dogs.

True, very true!  I like to have two CD's with us even if we only use one.  I like to be as close as possible sometimes that distance is 20' and sometimes that distance is 20-30 yards.  Where I have been caught in a bind is when a hog breaks and runs when my CD is between me and hog.  Common sense tells me that if my dog is getting wrecked when the hog breaks and runs a few hundred yards because of the time it takes me to get to him that I ought not intentionally let him go from that kind of distance. 

I like to get as close as possible, I don't think ive ever sent one from 100 yds. Reason I quit hunting with a feller. He would send them no matter how far they were. Cost him a dang fine catch dog and several stitches.

i like to see the hog, i would take 2 cds on purpose, one small pit and then a big bulldog, no since in sendin and wearin out your star player in the first quarter

with the limited hunts ive done and learned, ive learned bigger and closer is better

Very good subject. I understand that sfboarbuster can do the hat trick. I know there are people with way more experience than me. But I hunted with many people before picking my catch dogs. I am not saying anything is the best because I think there are trade offs. But I got tired of calling dogs off because they crossed the property line. I saw the bigger catch dogs being used as RCD and did not have that problem. My Cd's are still puppies and are far from throw away dogs. I hope to use them as RCD's one should be about 100 lbs and the other 60-70 lbs. If I have a dog that bays anything but pigs it won't be hunting with me. I also expect my catch dogs not to catch anything but pigs. Maybe a skunk or two rolleyes but that ain't really trashing ;D But if my dogs can't grab that hog, shut it down and hold it until I get there they will be lead in catch dogs. I also think that if your catch dog is caught you better be busting through everything to get there. I know people think I am crazy for getting my unicorns. I sure hope they catch half as good as some people say.

But I have caught some pigs with just one bay dog. Just let the dog distract the hog and I grabbed them. But it only took once that it almost went bad for me to really want a good catch dog. For me I want a hog anchor. But I know Chance has used a Jack Russel for a catch dog. So I don't have the perfect answer just what I want.

I like to use the big leggy catch dogs. around 27 or 28" at the shoulder and 80-90lbs. I hunt some pretty open country where I can send my catch dogs from a long way out, but I will be able to get to them pretty quick. I like to use two at a time that are used to working together. Two big dogs can control a pretty bad hog for a good while in this country. That control is what I am looking for, less damage to the catch and bay dogs. I also find it safer when I am hunting alone.

In open country when I am hunting off the truck and can drive about anywhere I will send mine from 200 to 400 yards. When I am in the thick brush or canyon country I like to get a little closer.

I am running my dogs in breast plates because they are cooler and the dogs can move better while they are running to the bay and after they are caught. I also use these dogs by themselves one to or three at a time as finder holders when I am working crop ground or very open pastures. They often go 1/2 mile and hold untill I get there with no ill effects. I have got to have them in really good shape for this type of work so I road them 3 miles every other day.

Size, speed, and a clean holding style in these dogs is what works best for me in this country.

That's not why we think you're crazy.  ;)

i hunted for years with just my catahoulas and a kid rope and knife .dogs get em bayed up and when i git there if they hadn't allready caught they would catch when they seen me coming and i would leg and rope the hog and if possible start pulling the bigger ones back end up a tree branch  .when i started useing catch dogs i treat them just as i would a pistol don't shoot till you see the target . and i walk not run like a wild man to a bay . i've hunted with a couple guys that would take off runnin and hollerin into a bay . no wonder the hogs break

I'd like to hunt with you halfbreed... I bet you got some stories you'd like to put up on here and can't...  ;D

X2

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

you talkin about all them heartattack hogs ?? best fun i had was when i had them cataracts and couldn't hardly tell a dog leg from a hog leg . them was fun times . and i couldn't put most of em on here cause them young uns would call me a liar !!

ill bite... if you get the time id like to hear a story or two, you can always just pm it to me, i love reading stories that would make me mess my pants.

and i want to know bout the hat trick, is it all in the wrist or what?

i'm left handed never could find me a left handed rope so you just gotta run in thar and manu ally apply it and hope like hell the dogs don't let go  ;D  ;D

I like to see my dogs work day or night.  That's what I am there for.  Don't think I am leaveing the cds out I like to see them hit to.  I don't like to turn them loose from a distance to many factors.  Might catch a hog on the way or get gun Ho and catch a cow( not good).  I had one that missed its catch a while back and ended up caught a long ways from me and in a bad spot.  I lost her to heat stroke.  Now I turned her loose from 15 yards but the Chase and where they caught prevented me from getting there in a timely manner and it cost me.  Usually I turn loose from 15 yards or less but here lately I can't keep a cd, so I haven't turned one loose in about a month.  I'm in the market for one. I do like 2 cds because my dogs don't hang around very long.  When they see you coming in they role out.  They bay pretty loose.  I like that because I don't have dogs getting cut up all Tue time.  Lately one of my yellers sees me coming in and has started catching, kinda got me worried alittle bit but I guess he will learn.  JMO

I like to use just one catch dog but I have brought 2 and used them when I did. But as far as how far I turn loose I had my #2 dog get killed last christmas eve bc I turned him loose to early and it was thicker terrain than I thought and they were caught for too long. With dogs with heart they will get hurt in a hurry if u can't make it ther in time. So now days I turn loose when I am close.  Jmo

We lead our cd's in as close as we can. We have owned both small and large cd. I prefer a large cd, because I think that they can handle a large hog with ease. We ususally bring one cd. Most of our bay dogs will help the cd.

 We like to be pretty close when we turn the cd loose and catch the hog quickly after the cd latches on. Keeping in mind that nothing goes according to plan on a hog hunt.  :)

Halfbreed, if you don't put some stories, I'll have to call you!!

for about 19 years i didnt own a catchdog and usually didnt hunt with folks who used one either. we had some dogs that would catch but i didnt have a ;lead in catchdog till i got to using american bulldogs about 15 years back.  how far i turn in a bulldog all depends on the bulldog or bulldogs, the terrain and the dogs on the ground.  if we hear dogs gettin hurt and are close enough to get a person to the dogs within a couple minutes we will turn in a bulldog or bulldogs. personally i like havin 2 bulldogs that on their own can hold most rank boars for 10 or so minutes. i prefer a bulldog to be 70 to 90 lbs. part of the reason i like 2 bulldogs is just because you turn 2 loose dont mean both will make it there( may catch own hog etc) or one may get taken out of action by the hog and so then all you have is one bulldog. now the dogs you are hunting with  decide what type bulldog you need a lot also. the pack of dogs we typically hunt now will catch alot of hogs without a bulldog so a big bulldog or 2 isnt as important. the dogs we hunted with for many years  would not help a bulldog too much if it were a bad hog so the more bulldog power the better. and since it came up in some post on this thread, ive tried to have cow broke bulldogs so ya dont have issues in that area, not sayin never had a accident  but after one the dogs got broke really quick.

Since I brought it up.  Many years ago I had one catch a cow and tore her head all up.  I was able to pen her and doctor her but the landowner was PO'ed.  I took care of business and we got along.  I will blame it on haveing new catch dogs every week and them not knowing any different, not that I was young and dumb.  Lol still ain't much smarter.  After that incident I am very careful how I turn em loose, especially new ones.

2 springs ago we were hunting a big place.. Dogs rolled out and caught a sow and a boar hog pretty quick. Then they rolled way off and went about a mile into another big ranch. No way to get to them so we start trekking it in. We can hear em bayed so we know we're gonna need cd.

About halfway there a puppy tagging along with us bays a big spotted boar hog. Turn Obama loose and bam trainwreck and off to the races. The other boys went to the dogs bayed, while I chases Obama down. Mile and half later on foot get him caught and headed back to the other boys. They've been catching sow after sow with the dogs and have already stuck 6 by the time I get over to them. Big e meanwhile has gotten q truck around and picks me up. We're getting over towards the dogs and we notice 2 gyps are bayed right by us in a bad coupon thicket. I jump out and E tells me  its just another sow, to turn Obama loose from about a 100 yards so i didn't have to fight him the whole way in. Well I get to a 100 yards and cut him loose. Still headed to them, about 60 yards out and the two gyps never missed a beat baying but I can see Obama treed there already. I finally get into them about a min later and find him caught on huge spotted Barr in a very steep and narrow creek.. Of course the gyps could care less about a caught hog and roll off. He was spinning everything direction making it tough to stay down in the creek long. Twice I almost had him and he through Obama off and put me up the bank or trees. Finally a 100 yards down the creek it flattens out and I was able to do the wheelbarrow.. It took about 3 throws and finally was able to get him caught. That's one of the worse Times Obama ever been cut, he almost even lost a toe but luckily a vet was hunting with us and sewed it back on

To this day I won't turn a CD loose without knowing where they are.. Especially when you're by yourself

(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/baseball_10_03/1308665937.jpg) 363# Barr 

nice hog and looks like obama was caught solid!

It's hard to say how I will use a catch dog.  My decisions depend on a lot of things.  Knowing my dogs and my friends dogs helps with those decisions.  My pits might be hunted loose, sent from a truck/boat, or walked in.  No magic formula for me, just whatever I decide at the time.  

I often have someone send a catch dog from my truck or boat.  So, I try to sneak in from down wind with a VHF marine radio, when possible.  When that won't work, I vest a pit, hope for the best, and let 'em fly.

Dog size is a personal choice.  I like them medium to small and "athletic", but not muscle bound.

As for hunting with dogs I don't know:  Mixing packs is a good way to loose dogs and friends.          

I agree with most everything you said Tony....I will not hunt with rcd or dogs intended to catch. I do not put down that syle but not how I want to hunt. I think people who think catch dogs are expendable are not good for the sport.

It is my opinion two 50 lb catch dogs can do the job of any large dog and typically access the hog faster and catch quicker. I feel it is very important to know where your dogs are baying and be able to reach them quickly as possible. My release preference would be 25-50 yards. Out of all the hogs I have caught...I have yet to see a hog two medium sized pits could not handle.  Before I hunted two...I was never concerned with one dog holding a 250 + lb hog. Obviously two dogs can handle a larger hog easier than one dog. Which to me has resulted in less cuts or damage to my catch dogs and helping bay dogs.
All that being said...I do not want my bay dogs (even though they are 20 lbs) catching with the catch dogs...I would prefer them to roll out. That is easier said than done with jagds. Point being...I want bay dogs to bay and catch dogs to catch. I dang sure do not want my unvested bay dog on the other ear of the hog along side my vested catch dog.

We both seem to share the same idea of minimizing the time and damage a catch dog takes...but if safety is our concern...do you not agree putting two catching dogs on a hog will limit the possibilities of cutting/damaging the catch dog..as well as a bay dog helping?

I like the idea of two catch dogs i think it is safer for the cd if there is two, my feeling on turning dogs loose at a distance changed this week end, from now on I'm going to get as close as i can before cutting my cd loose.  When i first started hunting we waited till under 50 yards to cut them loose kinda got lax the more runners we got on but i think I'm back to waiting to be under 50 yards.

No arguements that the safest way to use a cd is to get a visual of the hog, cut the cd from a close range and get the hog off its feet as soon as possible.

BUT...

Weather or not its b/c I am lazy or just stubborn I use my cd like a good tool. I make sure its the best for the job that I can get (athletic etc) take great care of it, but work them hard. Once dogs are bayed I mostly cut loose from about 150-200 yds. Sometimes alot closer and soemtimes alot farther. Typically I have 2 big leggy good winded cd's and we stop alot of hogs that way. Havent lost one in 5 yrs (knock on wood) I would say the dogs are typically caught for 3-4 min on avg and 1 out of every 5 catches 8-10 min. When hunting with certain friends I have no problem walking in close but like a cd that has the diversity to be used multiple ways.


Good topic

But yeah cd need broke off everything your bay dog is broke off of, and i agree a cd Is doing the dangerous job u better have a good one that knows what's up.

Bump: absoltely agree that a hog is handled better with 2 cd's, hence minimizing damage. Where I see the problem or issue is... Does hauling and carrying around 2 cd's everywhere you go for that 5 or 10% chance that you'll actually bay a hog that needs the extra help. Weighing all the pro's and cons of how much we hunt, the number of hogs we catch and the number of bruisers that need 2 cd's I just feel that one is enough.

That being said we don't have 20# bay dogs lol and most of the time 1 or 2 cur dogs will have the other ear

It all depends on the situation, when I used to have a CD back a few years ago i'd turn him in from up close if we had a good solid bay, but if it kept breaking on us then i'd turn him out from however far we needed to get it shut down.




Sneak up behind the hog when the dogs are bayed, throw a hat in front of him. They will usually try and bite the hat, when they step forward, grab some tail and hang on! But, this little move will backfire on you eventually and get your ass hog caught! Make sure there is a tree handy to climb lol. I've also done this when they are bayed up underneath a blowed over tree to get them to come out where you can get a rope on 'em.

Sometimes, when you don't have a CD there is nothing you can do if they are bayed in the wrong spot. I've sat up in a oak tree for an hour trying to talk the dogs into catching a boar hog in a clump of small cabbage trees, nothing I could do about it except listen to the music and go back to catch him another day.

x2 a good story is hard to beat! just write a book!

for me sometimes we dont use catch dogs... that gets kinda interesting lol but whenever we do it's normaly one lead in (mine) and for me the best part of the hunt is the catch.. i love to watch that dog run in there with no fear and just jump up and grab on... point is i have never turned my cd loose on one i couldnt see JMO

good subject

Understood...Im sure the amount of hogs I catch which really need two catch dogs is less than you. But I am a puss and always wanna make sure. In my area I can most likely drive near the bay and very rarely do I tie...so hauling two dogs isnt as big of deal.

Good topic

Now that ain't how I heard it. I heard you just run in there, toss the hat, grab the 5,000 lb hog toss it up and slam it down so hard the pine cones fall off the trees in Maine. I heard that is what really shook the North East but they blamed it on an earth quack so you would not have to pay to fix the Washington Monument ;D

Dub, I was TRYING to be modest, but ya caught me.

I'll tell you what catch dog etiquette is to me. This is what I want, good level mannered pit who catches smart and holds like its got a brain. Between 35-50 lbs. Unstoppable desire to catch a hog, but calm cool and collected. This is where etiquette comes in, no matter the type of catchdog, it should be quiet, walk properly on lead, act right in the truck or atv and know all its required commands. A catchdog has to be around its handler alot, so why put up with headaches cuased by an uncouth dog.

All depends on situation. I like a versatile dog for a cd though. I have dealt with alot of runners in some of the areas I hunt. But I take so many things into consideration before I turn a cd loose or run them on the ground. Soco is goin on five years and still kicking, he gets the crap hunted out of him and is used any way you could possible used a holding dog, but I spend as much or more time in training my cd as I do a cur. My opinion it's a much more thorough building process for my cd than my cur dogs. I wouldn't ever just got take a year old cd with no experience and put them in the woods. Soco for example was strictly lead in for the first year of his life. Honestly, he is the one who opened my eyes to see that he could do more.

Anyone who knows me on a personal basis knows that my soco dog is probably the most important thing in the world to me (besides Lindsay and my family). He is pretty much my child lol. As hard as I hunt him, I calculate the risks tremendously. I know that any day could be his last. So many things go through my mind, that it's hard to put into words, before that dog ever comes off a lead. Have a 7 mo up and comer that I plan to eventually run side by side with soco to take some of the work load off him, so well see how he ends up. He deffinetly has the potential.

 I perfer a couple 50lb pits but we do have and use alot bigger pits than that. I want to be able to see my bay dogs work the hog and the CD hit when he catches. We have never sent a cd to a bay over 50 yards away and the less time a CD is caught the less likley there will be damage to the dog.

I agree with you here. But have a ? for you. Have you ever seen a pit hold clean? I like pits and have caught plenty of hogs behind them, but there typically not the breed you want for a clean holding style. Despite owning a few good pits and being around many more I have never seen one that wouldnt shake out the bite....they were line bred to kill for 100's of yrs not hold. There typically a shorter dog as well and as soon as there feet go off the ground its like a dish towel in the wind  :D
Good topic

i have never had a lead in catchdog and dont want one if you cant  take the time to trash break the catch dog then he must not be worth haveing .

Are you saying that a lead in cathdog has to be lead in because its not trash broke??

IMO, its just another style and in most cases has nothing to do with the dog not being trash broke...  ;)

     TShelly I feel ya brother.  In our neck of the woods it works best with 3 catch dogs to turn aloose in increments.  We use a RUFF cur dog and bull dog combo.  We run garmin collars on all of them.  We do not like the catch dogs that will run with the curs.  I try to keep a short range catch dog.  If the hog breaks they will make a short run at it and come back.
     A couple of years ago we bayed one off a cow feeder down in a creek bed.  It was dark so we got in as close as we could and turned two large american bulldogs loose.  They caught a boar that weighed around 350 with 3 inch cutters in a wash out in a creek.  I'm talking about 10 foot banks and only one way in there.  That night I was thankful for two large catch dogs.  That hog was fat and feeling good due to all of the high protein show calf pellets he had been eating.  That hog was big enough to swallow one small catch dog.
       I think some of the problem is the type of cut vest people run on their dogs.  My old vest is 11 years old.  I've retired 2 catch dogs in it and am currently seasoning my young dog in it.  It has only been cut through twice, and both of those have been in the last two years.  I will retire the vest at the end of this year.  Nothing pisses me off more than to see a catch dog with a phony vest on or without a vest. 

Everybodys different but for me i rather have a lead in catch dog over one running with curs, after a while seems like they will try to start striking and catching on there own and that seems like its a wreck in progress when they get seperated from the pack and try to lock up on a dog killa by themseleves, I hunted tons with one red blackmouth cur and 2 or 3 pit bulldogs, always held them back and let the cur strike off the hood or front of the truck, if he barked he was looking at the hog and then dumped the dogs or lead them in to him depending on how far from the truck, nothings worse than finding 3 dogs locked up on a easy fat sow or shoat and then start looking for the remaining catch dog and hear him getting wacked solo becuase he split off on the way to the bay up, but this was on ranches with lots of senderos and thick heavy brush, got tired of the catch dog deal when one got after my fence jumping mule out of the blue after riding in the truck bed with him for 4 years, go figure, until it happens to you its hard to figure when one snaps like that out of the blue with no warning, stuff happens when we hog hunt thats for sure, you never know what to expect really, I think thats the draw, no hog hunt with dogs is ever the same!!!!

i have a 42 pound pit , listens good , catches good, good around other dogs , broke off livestock , leads good the only thing i dont like is he gets excited a squeals when he thinks he hears a bay , im gonna have to start runing shock collar on him so maybe he will learn ,i like him because i can turn him loose an he will go hunt , so if i see pigs close by an the other dogs are off i can cut him loose an he will go an try to wind them ,

perfect catch dog in my eyes would be about 45 - 50 pounds , hate hogs but still gentle  an calm with other animals around the house , good with dogs , livestock an , ride on atv or truck , listen pretty good , know how to sit an not pull on the lead i dont like big huge catch dogs they are hard to lift over fences an stuff , IMO bigger catch dogs will get cut deeper because of weight when the hog hits they pushing against more pounds

Were all intitled to our own opinion but yours is wrong. I do agree that the above described cd is a good one but the last part of your post has no validity

The law of physics would say that you are right, a bidder catch dog is a great force agains a cutter therefore the cutter can go deeper and this wOuld be correct if the dog was an object that could not manipulate its own  movements. Where a bigger cd strives is when they can keep their feet on the ground and get side to side with a hog (there has to be some holding style also of course), and therefore can stay away from teeth.

Example. My soco dog is no "large cd" he is about 70 lbs and built right. He was run on the ground the other day and we led a pit it (the hog that weighed 283). Soco was caught and the pit was sent in behind him. When I got there, the pit was not caught. He was trying to catch and having to jump at the hogs ear (hog was very tall for 283 but also short boddied, all weight was in height and upfront). Soco was stretched out pretty good but was able to keep all four feet on the ground and body up with this particular boar. Soco suffered minor flesh wounds (one bite through the skin on the neck below the collar), quervo, the pit, ended up dead from his wounds. From the looks of the wound in his side, he was caught at one point and the hog slung him pretty good and he got a good tooth to the ribs (just a guess), the. Many puncture wounds on the neck/shoulder from gettin knocked back.

I think different sizes all have advantages and disadvantages. You just got to find what works best for your pack and get a dog as much experience as you can without getting them killed. Soco was lead in, probably 50 yards or less, for the first year of his career and handled some good hogs that way before i slowly have expanded his horizon. Now I hunt him, not the way he wants to be hunted, but the way that is going to fit our needs that day in the field and still keep him as safe. Like I said, I take a lot into consideration before he comes unclipped.

what makes his OP so wrong i can fully agree with what he says. i like a smaller catch and a large catch dog. i run both at the same time, both are lead in and turned loose at the same time. 8 out of 10 times the smaller catch dog gets there first. but both do there job well , and work great togeather. they cover what the other dog lacks, small dog better speed and agility, bigger dog over all bulk and height. SO small CD gets there to hammer a hog, big CD gets there to help seal the deal. and the CD are there for insuarence. we lead in as close as possible, no sense in send to 2 CD for what one and the CURS can handle. 6 out of 10 when the curs now where that close if they can catch out there goen to so we have had plenty of times there was never CD turned loose.


T-bob u got it goen on for sure in what u want. and that is the CD i like to be around. as far as a pit not holding clean? sure there is alot the dnt wont and cant, just the same as any other breed. but just like our strike dogs, if u selective breed and strive for what ur looken for in a CD u can get the total package. This CD or pit is a dime a dozen theory is BS. why settle when u could go for greatness.

Make em squeel and Chris, thanks to both yall, make em, yes I've seen a clean holding pit, not many but a coupl.

My current catchdog doesn't fit my ideal but she's close in some aspects. Two different pits I've seen that I would be honored to own were; Chances male leopard who I can't recall his name but that dog definitely had his mind right.

My personal favorite pit ever was owned by my good friend Jheffern and was hands down the greatest mannered dog of any breed I've ever had the pleasure to be around and just really dadgum smart.

You have many good points and I see how you've come to this conclusion. Weight is a big factor for me as well, I personally enjoy a lightweight catchdog and absolutely do believe that less weight equals a better chance for the vest to do its job.

Not saying my thinking is right just what I have noticed is , all my dogs catch before or with the catch dog so the hog is kinda streched out So mayb that's why I like smaller dogs but who knows what ever works for you keep doin it haha ,

sqeel how can you say anybodys opinion is wrong it;s treir opinion not yours !! now with that said i prefer a small catch dog for the reasons swamp hunter i think said, a foarce against a heavier object will result in greater damage period just check out physcics and you will see what he's talking about . a small smart pit [like mine ] will do just as well as and a better job of catching than those big dumb hevier catch dogs will with less damage to the dog . >:D  >:D

And smaller dogs are easier to threw brush and over fences that's for sure,

Or a big dog can just jump a fence...

No dogs are going to get cut with two big dogs holding like this, this is a sow but the same happens with a boar with good teeth. The hog can't reach anything and really can't move his head much at all. I will stick with my big dogs.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e103/pwt3/020-7.jpg)

x2 on the big dogs

as far as jumping fence`s i have seen every pit i have ever ownclear a 6 ft privacy fence with no problem. no need to drop the tail gate on the truck. but when on the way to bay sure easy just tossen the CD dog over to a buddy instead of crawling and waiten for one through the wire. Man the variables!!!

U can't say a dog want get cut no matter how it's holding or how big it is

Zach, you can take our last Sunday hunt as a good example of a dog with its feet on the ground and a dog didnt. I know soco is only a couple inches taller at the shoulders but he had his feet on the ground and it made a difference. When I got there, quervo was jumpin to try and catch again. No one said that big dogs don't get cut. But when you got a big dog on each ear and they got there front feet on the ground on a big hog, they at least have some control of their body.

I have to agree... have seen it with my own eyes the ability of a dog to control a hog when he can plant his front legs to help control a hog... they just don't seem to get cut as much

Physics is obviously not your subject of expertise. These are not inantimant objects! You let your opinion on what you like in a cd get in the way of the discussion at hand. If I have a knife in my hand, and one day a little guy comes to take it from me and the next a big guy tries which one gets cut the worst has little to do with their size but rather their style of dis-arming me.

Unlike most people on this forum I have owned both types of cds. high quality in both styles, dogs who can keep their feet on the ground and hold clean get cut less most of the time. FYI Big does not equall dumb or slow

I can say and others who hunt with me can back me up, that my catchdog Eloy has caught his fair share of hogs and honestly has never been cut (a hog might have nipped him on the leg once... maybe) and I think it has every bit to do with how he holds and his size.

x2 mine will clear my privacy fence.. i got 2x4 welded wire over the tops of my kennels just to keep em in.. and you will get to the bay alot faster just tossin that 40lb 45lb pit over a fence rather then waiting on em to crawl under the wire getting caught on the straps on the vest

X 2

ha ha i knew that would fire you up . my little dog has only been cut once under the chin . might boil down to me prefering the smaller dogs for the fact that i have real hog dogs and when the catch dog hits the rest of my pack will emediatly catch with the exception of my strike dog . and them being taller does help control the hog . and me being a little man i can respect my catch dogs ability , cause just like i have brought down many many a big man by climbing on and installing a rear naked choke and biting them on the ear till they go down  ;D  ;D  and you still can't say a mans opinion is wrong all you can say is that it differs from your own period . good day sir ....

that opinion is also wrong...  >:D  ;D                     Just Kidding ( kind of )  :D

Lol that's great stuff. :D
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

he man whatever works huh lol

that other half of his breeding is leprachuan!!! >: ;D i feel the same way u do on the bay dogs getting a bite to. and stick man trent can understands ur point of view!!! after all he is part hobbit.

I'm pretty sure Cuervo and soko wermyth same height.  my point is any dog can loose it's footing, slip, loose it's grip.  I just think there is too many variables to say one way is the perfect way i agree two bigger dogs with their feet under them holding body to body is great but any thing could happen

A catchdog doesn't need to have total control over the hog! Its job is two fold, slow the hog down so a human can approach it in relative safety, and being the main focus of the hogs frustrations. The squeeky wheel gets greased and you hope the catchdog is making a louder squeek than you, know what I'm saying?

I have caught a few hogs with no catchdog and have seen and heard of other people doing it with with lil bitty ol terrier dogs

If all of you really believed the catchdog should control the whole situation wed all be mixing saint Bernard and great Dane and fila Brasileiro

t-bob that was kinda my point there is more then one way to skin a cat

one thing for sure... "GOOD"catch dogs are not  a dime a dozen...I haven't had many because they take up my limited space but they are nice to have...If I had a large place I would keep 3 or 4 just to breed good reliable catch dogs for personal use.

for years I did not use a catch dog because my curs stopped and kept the bad hogs bayed and caught when I told them to catch and they learned to catch when I showed up. After a few times of getting my dogs cut down and seeing the hog walk off made me have to decide if I wanted another catch dog. I finally decided that carrying a pistol was easier to pack around and then I taught my dogs to back up if it was a bad hog and I would just shoot it. That was the best method for me and still my favorite. If the hog was not real bad it was caught before I got there but it kept crippling injuries to a minimum.

Right now I am forming a pack and was thinking catch dog style again but am leaning back to the gritty curs and will eliminate the catch dog from the equation once the pack is where it needs to be.

Golly lee maybe I am in the minority here but I sure hope my catchdog does more than just distract a hog! IT DOES NEED TO CONTROL THE SITUATION!! Thats why nobody likes a catchdog that will re grip. The very possibility that he may while regriping "lose control of the situation" causes so much fear in people that they wouldnt own a regripping catchdog. So having control of the hog and the situation is very important. Like the post silverton boar shows. that hog is controlled and you would have no fear getting in close with that hog.  Just because someone can catch hogs with lil bitty ol terrier dogs doesnt mean its the most successful or efficient method, of course there are many ways to skin a cat but surely everyone can agree that some methods may just be more effective than others, and just cause it is possible to do it that way doesnt mean its the best method.

That's fine, and your probably right, I'm just tired of big vs lil, so I figured id shake things up a bit. The CD's hob is vitally important, but the most important factor in this sport is the handler, does he or she have the brain, heart and balls to be catching live wild hogs. Its not calling anybody to the carpet, its more of a rhetorical question. If your dog is giving you all he's got, are you willing to back him.

Once again, not you particularly, just rhetorical

Haha I'm inclined to agree with you T-bob.. Not calling anyone scared or anything like that but that's part of the fun of hog dogging to us! The pure adrenaline rush of you and your dogscatching a rank boar hog is where it's at!

 It all varies on style, terrain and your cur dogs that are hunting. We tie most every hog we catch and they are hard enough to flip with a lil cd and cur dogs caught. It sure be hard to flip and tie with 2 100# dogs hanging off both ears.

Is a big dog or 2 big dogs more efficient than one small cd at "holding and securing" a big hog.., absolutely!!

But how much more efficient is it raising, carrying and using the small dog vs always carrying 2 big cd's around, plus added feed, kennel space and other factors.

I think some people are a little hesitant to get in there an catch a big nasty boar hog with just one cd lol that's fine by me. We always need someone to take pictures, I surely don't mind grabbing hold of one

So that explains why YOU are always posting those " action pics " of the hunts...

We all know you have the camera zoomed in trying to make it look like your getting " close to the action "    rolleyes  >:D  ;D

I dont think most folks on here are scared to go in and leg or stab a hog that is caught, but a bet a few would be scared to grab a hog that is not caught at all.  I for one have tried to sneak around back and grab the leg of a good sized hog that was only distracted by the bay dogs and not caught and I must say that it was done with much hesitation and yes even some fear.  I dont think it is something the average hog dogger wants to be doing on a regular basis, despite the added adrenaline rush.  I guess sometimes you got to weigh the fun aspect vs the safety aspect and see which side tips the scale.

Twillbanks: hahaha you'll see.. On this website and life in general pictures are worth a thousand words!!

 I get all the action pics because I'm usually there so long before everyone else shows up! That 6 minute mile has got to be good for something lol  Big e finally got an iPhone so this next spring I can gurantee some better video and pics :) I do catch alot of noise for the pictures I take but then as soon as I the hunt is over; everyone talking mess can't wait to see em all and the video. I dont mind being papparrazi at times

Hoghunterdfw: yeah that's not the easiest or fun thing to do. I wasn't really talking about one outting them yourself, that's crazy.. But I've seen it done on very big hogs none the less. I was merely referring to early where people talk about not wanting to catch a nasty boar hog with just one small pit bull.

I agree with t-bob we just need the hog to be distracted and attention focused elsewhere fir us to catch it. None of our pits regrip! They are caught! We just need a moment to get behind them to grab a leg

So if im reading this correctly ( which i am 100% sure i am  :P ) , you run in there before everybody else and
then just stand there behind a tree ( sometimes already in it ) taking pictures waiting on the " real " hog doggers
to get there and grab the hog because you are alil skeerd.... right???    

Rhetorical question Tony... i know im right!!    :-*    >:D

good thread, as i see this has turned into a lot of styles and opinions on hog hunting heres my 2 pennies worth. i know this is a texas based board but you have allowed all us foriegners to join too.anymore in most states its illegal to transport hogs live from the wild and in some places they must be shot either with firearms or archery equiptment. as far as a bulldog( to me a catchdog is normally a bulldog as to me a catchdog never barks and never lets go, just grabs and holds) i agree that they need to control a hog and this is hard to do with the bulldogs feet off the ground. and as ive said as well as many others if you use a catchdog, the type that you need is  dependant upon the rest of your dogs. and i totally disagree with someones comment about good hog dogs dont need help. thats just a style /opinion. and one i completely disagree with. to me all dogs have their job on a hunt and if they do the job i want then they are a good dog. hunting with a pack that didnt help on a bad hog was never a problem as they kept the hogs busy untill we got a bulldog or bulldogs to them. their job was to find, stop and alert us they have a hog. the bulldogs job was to go to the bark and grab and hold the hog, no matter what. again just my opinion. but to say a hog dog that wont help catch a hog is no good is just a opinion, not fact by any means.

guess i should have said that for many years i didnt use a catchdog, just overall ruff dog . and yes some we had to shoot. but these dogs did the job we wanted them to do find and fight and hopefully catch hogs . if not catch to keep em busy till we got there to shoot em

HAHAHAHA LOL thats funny stuff right there!  ;D

heres a part of catchdog etiquette that maybe was discussed here but if it was i missed or forgot,lol. if you are hunting with  my hunting partner or myself  and our group has a bulldog or bulldogs and you hear the dogs bay up and you decide you are gonna go ahead and get to the fight or bay.... you best be takin the bulldogs with you as they do no good with us old slow guys while you are allready there and just holdin your pecker. and ahead of time  we always disscuss about turnin dogs in .

I agree it bugs me when new doggers sprint to a bay! These curs spend most of there life kennelled, let the sob's work! If they cant keep it bayed get better curs. (FYI I used to be a sprinter)

Haha you got it right Trenton! Thanks

We try to catch as many hogs we can, I guess that's where the being quick about it comes from and always have competition between alot of us on catching the most hogs. So y'all have fun sitting in the buggy. Our dogs are out there to work, it takes more to stop multiple hogs. I don't see too many other people having and 20+ hog days.. So I guess it works for us.

Anyways it's off subject from the cstchdogs, so enjoy hunting your own way and get back on subject or start another thread

The point of this post is etiquette so this is my opinion: 95% of the hogs all of us (besides lion&boarhunter/Jesse) catch dont need the perfect unicorn cd. A pack of curs that jump on with a small pit is all thats really needed generally. Thats a good way to hunt IMO. 5% of the time when the cd catches a bad one and the curs role off or its in a bad spot a solid anchor or two is great to have.

BUT....

I personally like to feed the best of the best so thats what I strive for, Cds included. We can all agree that if a short pit was the best all around cd they would be used in more ways. Even though a good clean holding anchor that keeps on its feet isnt needed on most hogs, or one with enough lung to stay lugged up w/o a heat stroke if the bay breaks is only needed once every month or two, it is simply worth it to me. My curs typically role off as well & I like that making the need for my cd to controll a hog more frequently, even if it is just a 200lb sow I dont want to get bit. The small difference in food etc it takes to raise something more diverse and used more effeciantly doesnt matter at all to me. This is my hobby not part of my budget!! If I couldnt afford to hunt or feed what I like I would quit....

back to the original Topic.... it took one time of turning my catchdog out from about 80yards to learn to get as close as i could. Dogs were bayed solid in a little thicket (pretty thick yaupon).  they were bayed up real good, so i turned him loose and me and my brother in law take off towards at a fast walk. Next thing you know all hell breaks loose. Two boar hogs bayed up in that thicket and as soon as my dog caught he got his butt handed to him by the other boar.  Worst day ever, dog made it ok had a couple small cuts nothing major thank god. BUT, it was one hell of a learning experience i'll tell you that. we did get one of the 2 hogs though, so it wasn't a total loss.

Garmin has changed the catch dog game for me.  Also, it depends on terrain(accessibility) and hogs. Where we hunt the hogs have only gotten smarter and faster so unless you want to spend all day chasing a hog you better have a couple of big long legged catch dogs that can be turned loose from 400-500 yds and be able to close the gap fast. But we hunt open river bottom land with few man made or natural barriers that would get in the way of us getting to our dogs fast.  The function/ physical ability is almost if not just as important to the curs where we hunt. In fact some of us are using a catchdog on the ground at all times now.

Joey

It would be nice to get in close to watch a bay and turn the bulldog loose. Unfortunately away from the river bottoms in this part of the country that opportunity arises very seldom. Some hogs will bay up around here; the majorities are just stopping to lace up their running shoes. For the most part run a pretty rough pack of dogs that will try anything if they think they got some help. A majority of the hogs we catch are caught by the bay dogs, either run down or we the hog stops to take a breather. I’ve turned my bulldog loose several time 250yds +, but I’m never very far behind in those situations. Terrain can be a major contributing factor to the distance the catch dog is turned loose. In decent terrain and better than average accessibility, anything within a 100yds is sought after.  Unfortunately some hogs around here are prone to break bay, they know what’s going on, they hear dogs coming or four wheelers or smell you downwind or whatever the case. They know the game. Whatever increases the chances of catching a hog, I’m open to: turning them loose near or far. I will say this; I am much braver with Garmin in hand.  On the size, I prefer one, well mannered 80lbs or so that is capable of running a mile or more if need be, in case of a broke bay. I don’t want it getting there and getting cut down because it’s tired.