EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Ok so let me start by saying that i have never owned a black mouth, Ihave hunted with some crosses tho. Really liked the way those dogs hunt but anyway long story short i just got one my cousin picked up in georgia... And hes huge, big block head, legs for days, tall and lanky.. Never seen one this big so really what i was wondering is if anybody has any big black mouths would you post some pics? How he/she hunts? Weight and height? Ill try and post some pics of mine tomarrow. Thanks 

I own Okefenokee Cowboy out of Rathke's Reno and TLS Delight.  Grandad was Weatherford's Ben and he is about 65 pounds, I would call that bout normal.  About 9 months ago a fellow from Floridia had two heavy bred Reno females that are super gritty, in fact he used both of them to hog hunt by themselve that he brought me to breed Cowboy to.  They were very large dogs! Both probably outweighed my Cowboy by 10 pounds and were 3-4 inches taller.  I have a male pup that is 7 months from this breeding and he is already bigger than all my other dogs and has helped with catching and biting the hogs and just recently found a little one and bayed it!

You mean like these??
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/Picturelaney065.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/DSC_0337.jpg)

(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/CIMG0241.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/CIMG0244.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/CIMG0249.jpg)

rockin roo, where are you located. i remember askin you if i could breed my carnathan gyp to 1 of your males. she should come into heat somewhere in feb, but i will be heading back to afghanistan around that time

(http://img.tapatalk.com/aefd61ca-bda1-7e4c.jpg)
This is my 7 month yellow pup and my sob

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This is my 7 month old yellow pup baying with my sons 6 month old brindle puppy. I prefer a smaller more catty dog. I look for Him to get alot.

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(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/bOOGgRINGO.jpg)

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/Drifter.jpg)

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2011-10-21_13-52-53_638.jpg)

Cut alot sorry my wife bumped my phone in the process Of posting.

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Nice black mouth curs in your pictures, those other dogs above sure show the pitbulldog cross in them, I thought they were what they called southern curs due to the bulldog in them??

Treeing rat...... what the hell are you talking about bulldog cross?

take it easy roo he's probably never seen the caranthan line or the bigger bred yellers. i know howards line had them big jug heads on em .

roo and myles those are some fine looking dogs  :)

DEFF SIGN OF BULLDOG BLOOD BEING THERE WOULD BE WRINKLES IN THE FOREHEAD,  not a blockhead yella dog with NO wrinkles wat so ever, just a bulky dog NOT a bulldog  :D
define ignorance please someone...Lol.

Roo... You have some damn fine looking dogs there. I thought I had big black mouths at 70 lbs... But you sire have big, good looking dogs!!!

 ;D Haha,the dog bill sent me to use "bo" might be half bulldog!! We kicked the dogs out last night and walked about 50 yards from the truck,mick and bo ducked into the woods and i thought they were going potty like they normally do in the first minute or two,about 5 seconds later at 150 yards,squueeeeeeeeeaaaaalll !! No bark at all,ran to them and old bo was caught on a little 120 pound sow. Bill said he was rough but i sure hope he barks every now and then!!

 


caranthans dogs were first advertised in the old ARF magazine and he promoted them having bull dog added to them for hunting  hogs in southern style states like Florida, lots of people like it some dont, they were sold for years by him in his own adds as southern curs, then when blackmouth curs got hot and popular he distanced himself from the southern cur name to yellow blackmouth curs, that is why they are larger and dont look like the real blackmouth curs you see that have not been changed over the years by promoters, I cringe when i see these dogs crossed to Ladners or Wrights as if they are all the same dog, it is obious something is not the same between the dogs just looking at the pictures, go back and look in full cry and the animal research magazines or some of the adds he ran and some of the discussions about them, do your dogs have papers and if they do from what registry??  All I know is what he ran and i read and what i saw when somebody had some down here, way different dog but certainly not the same as 80 percent of the YBMCs in texas or anywhere else.  How much do you know about his strain and where it came from?

This matters not to me but if you have carnathan blood heavy on bruno this may interest you....

 (http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/alanscott.jpg)

The landowner where we lease has two BMC that go back strong to the Bruno line and I agree they are different dogs from foundation curs we have there and run on hogs. Interesting link on the Bruno dog.

i don't understand the post about bruno . bruno was a catahoula x bulldog  not his blackmouths line if i'm not mistaken . good thread please tell me more .

Carnathans Bruno may have been a catahoula bulldog but the Carnathans Bruno that was his foundation bmc is the same yella dog in the cat bull add....see what im sayin?

yeah just more stuff i didn't know  ;D  i will tell ya that i'm no yeller dog man . but looked into getting one back in the day for just a farm and chicken dog . so i guess the only good yeller dogs iv'e seen had a foundation of catahoula in them , that makes sense to me now . :o  ;D just kiddin yeller boys and girls  ;D

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=22567.20  


Here is where Uglydog debunked the Caranthan myth, i am old enuff to remeber how it tall started. hog hunting was only talked about in the old arf magazine way before the internet, if you sent in a yellow jaybird picture and filled out the pedigree it would be called a yellow black mouth curjaybid southern cur, he got mad at the ARF and wanted a break on registering dogs or something like that and quit them and started his own registry so he could save money and no worry about the ringnecks and brindle pups he was producing that showed up, then i think he went to american cur or something, the dogs had too much bite in them and were definetly a created strain he made up from dogs he bought off of the ARF magazine breeders, he brought some to quinlan and they caught the hogs instead of baying them like the texas ybmcs and the cats old man tom stodgill had there, he wrote his own column in full cry and shamelessly promoted his dogs for free with his own dog bruno at the top of the column, that saved him $200 a monthlol  Its the usual, when  u pay for an adverstiment you get to wirte the history and sell the koolaid inwhatever flavor you want, but some like me and others did not drink it, i love the part where uglydog posted that jpeg of a snake oil saleman in the forum discussionlol  It reminds me now of the part on Pawn Stars where somebody finds out there item is not geniunelol  If you google in a wayback look webiste you can find howards breed standard including brindle and ringneck dogs  up to 110 pounds, never saw any purebred texas la or Miss cur like that but his, where there is smoke there is usally fire and peeps get hot when they find out, but if the dog is working for you that is all that matters, >>>>>pushing away that glass of yellow coolaidlol

I don't know for sure and can't speak for Rockin Roo, but his dogs are Tolson Curs not caranthan, unless thats where the tolson line of dogs started from. A friend of mine has a litter mate to Roo's dogs.

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=21872.0 


Read the part about the foundation female being solid black he bought from some county agent??  Take a black female he did not raise like claimed he had them for 100 years in his family and breed them catahoulas and then u have the mess he created, thats why he had to change his own registry standard up i think 4 different times, other peoples real family strains did not resemble his dogs and he had to register them himself so they would be papered,  I just wish people would keep the strains seperate and not ruin them especially the Ladner and Ben and Jude Harts strains of dogs, they did not cross in bulldogs or Black females from a county agent and then blow them up as yellow black mouth curs and have to change up there standard 4 timeslo

I ran into exactly the same thing in rat terriers, one person introduced a different breed of dog, not even a terrier but a bigger dog and now his strain is favored and mostly show dogs and the orginal treeing varmit strains of rat terriers have been ruined from the introduction of non treeing dogs into the rat terrier, now they got outted and they had to create there own seperate registry becuase it came out they put papers on crossbreed hybird dogs, crazzee anint it. what a tangled web some breeders can weave.  Check out Decker terriers sometime to see what i mean, you will never see a squirrel dog for sale on that forum but tons of pretty show pups with no treeing guarnatee, thats why i dont register mine or ship them to somebody to cross up with my  Treeinfg rat Terrier dogs and then switch papers on themlol  I can see this happening to the black mouth cur as in the classifieds there are BenxladnerXwrights pups for sale from time to time, gees, these are not hybrids they are so different from what the original breeder selected, anyways, the ladners became more popular for squirrels and i think its becuase they dont tree fight like a lot of howards dogs did at competion meets so he had his own huntslol

Well guess mine would be Foundation Southern Curs.


I found em years ago and raised them south of the Angelina River.  :laugh:

As bad as I hate to admit it a cur dog has a dab of everything under the sun in em.

Great lookin dogs to everyone above and also good info to boot.

Yep you are right Hawkins,they are bill tolsons line of dog and didnt come from any strain of carnathan dogs. He has worked hard for 30 years to build his line and he does not advertise or give them any kind of fancy name. They are just good,big red/yellow blackmouth curs that get the job the done the way he(and apparently I) like them to. Like treeing rat said " as long as they atre working thats all that matters" and i couldnt agree more!

Bruno was a yellow dog in coloration and was the stud of many of the yellow litters thru his yard. Established Fact. That being said, who cares? If you like them and they hunt for you then congrats! I have some bias against Ben bred dogs and don't wholly care for that line in the hands of the men who have them. That doesn't mean there ain't no good  ones out there though.

Opinions are like buttholes...

Who you talking to T bob?

Treeingrat terrier and Roo i reckon, but thus was after extensive Christmas partying and lots a gentleman jack. I didn't realize there was a second page.  :D

Man, that's why I slowed down the spirits.

The yellow dog in my avatar is 70 pounds. When she was younger she could take hot trails but never ranged very far. Now with my Ben dog jefe she hangs around till he bays. I've also vested her up and used her as a back up catch dog. She still strikes. Other night jefe was bayed and when we finally caught up to him we kicked her loose to help and she ran 100 yds the opposite direction and bayed her own hog. 

So whats the story on Bil Tolsons black mouth curs, where did he get them, are they registered and where do they trace back to??  Just looking at them they might be from Howards made up line, but of course there is always the chance they are a splitter strain that came out from hiding, are Tolsons dogs all yellow and larger or whats the story???  I looked but no website or no images of his dogs on google images other than the ones here??

Hey underdog, what's the date on that magazine....it's got to be way back in the 70's. Reason I say that is the ad on the right page has a listing for Owl Hollow Kennels...in Fort Payne, AL, that's where I live. Alan Scott is a lifelong friend of mine and still raises ABs. I also noticed that the area code was '205' on the phone number....that's from waaaaaaaay back in the day. Kinda neat to see that though, I'll have to show Alan, he'll get a kick out of that. :laugh:

Treeing rat,my last post stated that bill does not give his line a fancy name and you sure as hell wont find a website,that aint and never will be what makes good dogs,except for the internet hunters that are a dime a dozen. The mystery of the tolson line may remain a mystery,it will keep gurus like yourself from picking them apart and dogmen like myself and others hunting them for what they are....good dogs! I also said that yes,they are all red or yellow blackmouth in color and BIG, they will work hogs and cattle and have more handle and trainabilitiy than any PAPERED MUTT i have ever been around.  ;)

well said roo  i sold my toloson female  and wish i wouldnt have  some times

He called me this week wacey,there is a litter on the ground by blue cat or billy the kid that belong to micah,they would be grandpups to hank or oscar,i have old bo up here with me now and am really enjoying hunting him,hes a rough SOB! I think micah was getting 200 on the male pups,i think bill is going to breed a gyp back to my mick dog and they should be some dandys!!

my buddy has a   brother to your mick dog       and i  had  a female  that was out of there sister    she was a good  dog  just  wasnt  hittin it of to be i got her in the hands   of a young hunter gettin strated she will be better used there   i know they are good dogs  just wish my gyp would have been  a busyer dog  with no sign    she would get lazy on me but that 100% my fault

my  gyp was a litter mate to the  ones harry thurman got from bill they all followed suit

Howard Carnathan was real high on ole  Bruno...He was his main stud dog by how he talked in his Monthly FULL CRY column that he wrote...

hey rockin roo. when is the next time your gonna be down in the area of your daughter? x-mas im sure, but after that is what i am refering to. i wanna breed to your male and you can have half the litter if you like. i dont wanna bringher to early and you have to tend to her for to much longer than need be. if your dogs are registered, what registry? i'm not worried if they are or aren't, just wondering. she should have 13 pups with 1 possibly still born or she will lay on 1 and kill it, but the last 2 litters she had was 13 pups.

I sent u a pm,u may not have gotten it. Not sure when i will get back down but after i drop my daughter off a couple days after christmas,it could be a month or it could be a couple,just depends on what the trip is for,horses,family,hunting,idont know from week to week. They are not registered,if she has enough pups for you to spare one,that will be just fine with me,just give me a shout when u think shes close to coming in and we will go from there.

Sorry it took me so long but i finally got time to take some pics, and im not sure what bloodline he comes from or any of that... all i know is hes a big bmc that loves to bay a hog  ;D
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z333/bama36502/dog.jpg)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z333/bama36502/dog1.jpg)

I don't remember what his bloodline is but if anyone from S.Texas knows Cy Pavlowski from Floresville can tell you his dogs were huge. pushing 100lbs. Big and good lookin sun of a guns.

bama thats a fine looken dog

I agree YBM mine too.

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Not as big as some on here but here is my big yella male....

(http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af223/pittsburgrv/Rex.jpg)

Fine lookin dogs everyone...

Here is a pic of my tuff dog at 10months he is just a year old now and still growing fast. Does a good job and has found me several hogs. Have had him catch and hold some big nasty boars and take some nasty cuts doing it. I keep hoping he will learn his lesson and bay on the bigger ones but still catch the smaller pigs. I guess only time will tell.

Idk if Yall would call him big but I think he's pretty big for just a year old
 (http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z441/treydavis44/IMAG0196-1.jpg)

Jburns,that is a really good lookin dog mate!

as are yours roo! mighty fine looking dogs

here is a male from rudy cantu stock i borrowed to breed my gyp 3 years ago
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/maverick2010_2009/MAVERICK.jpg)
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/maverick2010_2009/A-2.jpg)
(http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/maverick2010_2009/securedownload.jpg)

Is that the sire to your Indio or daisy dog?

Thanks Chris.. I hope to get him in the woods soon but all this deer hunting going on is holding us back. There have been some fine yella dogs posted thanks for all the pics..

Great looking cur weller44.

This is Sam He is 85-90 lb Cox Cur. Tightly bred off of Henry. With 2 of him there is no need for a CD.

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/gfulcher/photo-23.jpg)

His son Dusty 8.5 mo, going to be huge, looks grown in person already...from a breeding to sis, a tightly bred Rathke gyp. Again back to Henry. Only been to the woods a few times but very catchy....working on baying
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/gfulcher/photo-25.jpg)

(http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae312/hogdogslim/19569_1289417430334_1077151238_1375898_2947797_n.jpg)