EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a reg APHA filly. She will b 2 n May. I've broke horses when I was in high school n trained barrel horses.  It's been a while. I always broke them bareback with a mule bit. Been seeing lots of people using bosals.  What do u prefer n why??  I also need to get me a better riding saddle. My barrel saddle just don't fit right.  I win it years ago n lord knows my hips aren't that small anymore. Lol. Just needing some advice.  Thanx in advance.

Here she is as a yearling.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss145/BrandeeK1/3f3d78f1.jpg)

Snaffel bit for me, lots and lots of ground work.... I want the horse to think I've already ridden it before I even get on....

X2 what noah said,i like to start my ground work with a 15 foot lead rope on a rope halter(preferably witha couple of knots ofer the nose). This alllows you to lunge them in a 30 ft pen without having to chase them all over yet still have control of the nose and head. You can also use it to tie back to the rear D"s and set their heads left and right and when you are finally ready to climb on just double it over the neck to from a set of reins with basic left and right control. I give 2 or 3 quick rides in the bronc pen with it and then start over again on the ground with a snaffle bit,its a great way to set their heads and break them at the pole etc,i could go on forever...................

X3 on Snaffle Bit & I use a martingale.
X3 on ground work. Let her be comfortable with the saddle. Bit her back and side to side and just let a lot of things happen by her own doing giving her opportunity to learn with out fighting you or even blaming you. ;)

One other secret....   ;D.  Got tired of getting throwed off from a colt spooking that first ride from seeing me up on their back... So I went and made me a "riding dummy" to get that chit out of the way ahead of time.... Made it out of those foam "floaties" kids use for swimming... Zip tied them together in an "x" shape, slid a white t-shirt on, a cowboy hat, and foam arms and legs that flopped when they ran...   Use an aluminum pole to sack them outwith it from a safe distance(horse snubbed to wall).... Then zip tie to saddle, lunge the horse in the round pen, and watch the show....  ;D

That old dummy saved this dummy a lot of pain....  ;)

I start in a halter and get 10 good rides and switch to the snaffle. I would never use a martingale on a colt. A Bosals take a long time to learn to use correctly so don't try and learn with a colt.

I do quite a bit of ground work, and before my first ride I lay the horse down and get on him while he is rolled up on his belly. I do this for the same reason Noah uses his dummy, just a little different way of not getting another another concussion   rolleyes

The trick to colts is to have their respect without fear, and to foster a learning, submissive, and happy work environment. Slower is faster...

I have a snaffle bit in my in my homemade breaking head stall but I don't have the reins attatched to it. I just have it there to get the colt used to something in his mouth. I start off letting the colt wear this head stall for a couple of days dragging the reins. This teaches it to "Stop" and back up to get off the reins. When you see him doing this on his own then it is time for the ground work to begin. Most colts have plenty of "Go" so first you need to learn to "Stop". When he starts bucking and you pull back on the reins, it will hopefully stop, if not just gigem up and make him buck harder and harder till he finally get to tired. ;D Hopefully you are still in the saddle. ;D Now it is different for everyone. I have cow horses, so the faster I get there head down and stop to see what is in frount of them the faster they read the cow and then the turning comes natural.

Noah, Jimmy and Paul have given you some good advice.   like Paul said take your time, lots of ground work will pay off down the road.
if you could leave that colt tied with saddle on alot,,,, every day if you could.
 i have tarps on the side of my round pen or have them laying around on the ground, a long stick with a walmart sack tied to it works well for sacking out. dont try to scare her just ease it around over her back down her legs, under belly till she is not scared of it.  have her saddled all the time you are messing with her.
 i put a ring bit in there mouth the first time i saddle them so they will be used to wearing a bit. 
it dosent bother me to spend a couple of weeks doing ground work.
 
now you are ready to get on!!   
by now your colt should be flexing and giving to a bit you may have even drove her from the ground some, that will help to learn a little whoa before you ever get on.
make shure you have someone with you incase you get in a bind.  being a novice rider i would have some one hold the colts head while you get on, you could even go half way on and back off to kinda ease your colt into it if she doesnt feal comfortable with you crawling on her back.
   

now you are sitting on you horse , everything is feeling good..   ;D

have the person holding your colt walk foward a couple of steps ( if colt starts bucking pull her to the left in a small circle) if everything goes good them have them to keep leading you around and letting out some lead, now you can start turning the horse with your reins. if this works then then unsnap the lead and have them to keep walking the colt will follow them. 

 these are some simple tips but they will help you and your colt get of to a good start. 

Paul
 i was wondering why you dont like a martingale on a colt.   you are way better hand then me , so i was wanting to hear your theroy.

i have alway used a martingale on a colt , but i adjust the length of the ring to be almost in line with the sweals of my saddle and the corner of the horses mouth standing with his neck at rest or in mormal position.

i ride with really soft hands and  stive for a low head set on my horse.   i really like my horses to be soft mouth and have alot of flex and break at the pole.

i ride with alot of leg and try to stay out of there mouth as much as possible.

                                     

Listen to these guys start with lots of ground work.  I use just a rope halter for the first couple of rides.  Then go to a ring snaffle.  The first few rides I usually get someone to get in the round pen and push me around while I just sit there.  I found that this keeps the colt from getting overwhelmed since they are comfortable with someone pushing them around the round pen.  Also as soon as you feel comfortable take them out of the round pen and ride in the open.  Colts will get bored pretty quick in a round pen.  Just my two cents.

Craig, for me it interferes with the lateral control and direction of the front legs and can also push the hip out and cause the colt to reverse pivot on the outside leg in a turn. ( if your a cutter than thats all good )

When riding in the snaffle, a straight arm controls the shoulder and a bent arm controls the hip. If I am asking the colt to start stepping to the right, I will be using my right arm straight with it sweeping out to just shy of 90deg to the horse's body. The martingale is going to get a hold right there and put some backward pressure in that cue (the same as bending the elbow will) and that will encourage the colt to step out with the outside hind leg and load weight there. The leading front leg steps short to the right and catches weight early causing the outside front to step behind instead of in front of the right. Produces a bottle spin with the weigh distribution backwards from what you want.

I also don't want any downward pressure during the early training. You can't duplicate the downward pressure any other way and the colt can fall apart with out that crutch. Also the martingale tends to make the colt break at the poll, now you think that is what you want BUT you really want the colt to break back in the neck first and then soften in the pole second. This produces the correct weight transfer allowing the colt to elevate the shoulder and carry his weight over his hocks. Everything happens easier with the weight over the hock.

You can get where you want to be without the martingale and you can do it faster because there are no conflicting signals for the colt to sift through. I work to get all my rein cues inside the swells and working to get then up and in, to simulate riding in one hand in the bridle.

I used a martingale when I was younger, but I just found a way better way to get what I wanted.

Also, and this is the big thing for a green rider getting on real green colts with a martingale, when the crap hits the fan and the colt blows up bucks and/or runs.....If the rider hits one rein real hard and the colt braces he stands a great chance of hitting the ground.....and then our rider gets another another another concussion.

That's just the short version on my take of the subject  ;D

Well said Paul, a martingale is just a crutch for bad hands.... And a trainwreck waiting to happen with a colt

thanks for the explination, Paul  ;)

Well here is how We used to do it! Would go get the two year olds out saddle them and hope the trailer ride where we was going would take it out of them! There was one time me and kipp grabbed two colts that had never been ridden and his started Buckingham while hog hunting and bucked out of the bosal he was wanting me to help him but as my colt had a huge frog in his back we set back and laughed. These were some of the best broke horse's we ever had! But now we do things the way most of these guys explained it to you! I still say saddle the colt and ride itten hours hog hunting and force it to do everything that you need done treat it like a tool and it will be everything you want it to be!!! There is no bit that will train a horse and no Thirty minutes class going to do it! Just like a dog exposure and genetic will make the cut!

Chance
   a good friend of mine told me years ago " boy dont worry about the mules just load the wagon"    he was 90yrs old at the time.

well Paul did a great job explaining it I still think it is a personal preference! I have only seen Craig on two horses just assuming he trained both I would be happy to ride both! Heads set right got around and handled plenty ranchy!

thanks chance  ,  yeh i trained them and 25 others to get those 2  ;D


i was thinking of some of my old friends ways of thinking,    he would also say "dont spend more time feeding one than you do riding them"

With a halter in a small pen and piddle around as much as you can. Then with a snaffle bit. Lots of ground work also helps out alot!! Make him pay attention to you but don't pick on him! Just my 2cents  ;)

  Snaffle bit from the beginning. Bosals are more for finishing a lighter handle. The snaffle will work on the cheeks and once they and in a bit the ceeks are rarely used.

 just my  2 cents. Paul is right on with the training fork. alot of good advice here. Just remember the pull you need with a snaffle comes from below the horn of your saddle and the with your hands are apart. Think about where your going and use your upper body to give your colt some feel and direction. You want him to flex at the 5th vertebra not at the poll this will keep him rounded up instead of holllowing his back out .

Now we talkin'...  ;D    I disagree however...  ;D 

... how a horse breaks up front has less to do with the direction of pull than the timing of release...  I can ride with my hands/reigns above my head and round a colt up like a bowling ball  :D  I don't care what vertebrae he breaks at as long as he's soft in the face to I can drive his ass into it...

... Collection is my specialty...  ;) ;D

Well, I have this cowboy that owes me a good chunk of change, you talking about that kind of colection... 8)

Yes, I'm good at that too  ;) ;D  I once sat outside a mans house for 10 hrs until he came out to pay me for a horse I'd trained for him...  ;D

Lol yes sr. ride him right into the bridle. ;) ;D

Used to drive me crazy watching people pullin' a horse off the bit at shows... you gotta push them into it to get them off of it!!!

Times 2!

I was not saying Paul's or Noah way does not work they are cowboys who know how to get it done. Paul uses cats I use yellow dogs to l pen Cattle don't mean either one of us is better than the other just means we do it alittle different

Thanx for the advice n pointers. I have started light ground work as my schedule will allow. Once sports r done n school n my oldest graduates I plan on working with her more. She is a very trusting filly with me. I trim her feet n the pasture with no bridle halter or anything. She lets me do pretty much anything I need too. I'm sure she's gonna take time but I'm willing. When the time comes I sure hope I don't hit the ground. Been 20 years since I've been thrown. My husband is gonna get started on my round pen n riding arena after the first of the year. Can't wait. I like to ride alot with leg pressure n I'm very light handed. No need to b heavy handed. I've been working with my daughter too. She's Gettin there but at age 11 all she wants to do is rip n run. Her 13 hand pony has been there done that. He's finished western, English n play day n a level 3 dressage.  Neat watching him travel. Wish I knew more bout dressage so we could get him to do the diagonals. That's my fav part. I'll keep u guys posted on my progress. I have two 12 hand ponies to work with too. Took them n in rescue. Those gonna b fun. Lol.

 I start all my colts with a bosal.It keeps you out of their mouth.After about 30 days i use a snaffle bit then proceed to a myler cutting bit.I find the bosal gives the colt one less thing to think about when you are getting started.I also have my dad lead them around until they are comfortable.I teach them to work off of your feet with leg pressure before putting on a set of spurs.But some colts take a little more encouragement.I try not to teach them how not to buck and have trust in you.GROUND WORK is the key to starting young horses.If you teach them from the ground how to do things,when you get in the saddle its much easier.I never rush or beat a colt into submission.Trust and groundwork is everything.