EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

My hunting buddies only want loose bay dogs. The only dogs I have that were worth feeding are rough. I dont think suicidal but defintly not afraid to put teeth on the axle or the ear if the think the can get a away with it. anyone out there run a pack of mixed loose and rough or do they all end up rough?  I know both styles catch pigs but not sure what I prefer. Always liked a gritty dog on bear but not a head fighter. Seems to me some teeth need to make contact if you want to stop them. I got to hunt what I hve but dont want to looose my hunting partners in the process. What do you guys think?

are they worried your dogs will make theirs rougher?

yes they figure if one piles in all will and then dead dogs. It was my experience with bear that dogs got hurt more if there was only one rough dog. And that was usually him.

me and my huntin partners run both loose and rough dogs together never had any problem with loose dogs turning gritty but not to say that it cant happen

Run either or, don't mix them. I run loose dogs and won't run mine with rough dogs... good way to get dogs hurt or killed.

O x2

I have learned I can only get away with running one 1 rough dog with 1 loose dog... One rough dog and 2 or more loose dogs... still straight catch....

... 2 rough dogs obviously no bay... straight catch...

... for me it is a very fine balance that when off.... usually ends badly... when it works, however, it is a beautiful thing  ;)

X3 The only dog I have had get killed so far was the result of running my loose dogs with one rough dog.

Its almost impossible to run a catch dog or lead on in the hills we hunt.  They died like flys or over heated so i went to all rough dogs sure i caught some big boars the vet bills added up and the dead ones piled up but i kept raising them and burying them.  Then i met a guy that invited me to his house and i couldent believe my eyes . He had 2 sets of kennels one was retierd dogs and one was hunters,i had never had a dog live past 5. He has a line of long range,coldnose,push a track,put a tooth in ones ass, set back and blow their doors off baying sum baeches. now i have seen the lights

so how bout you guys that like rough dogs and are crossing pits to about everthing to get them. what do you like about them?

I like to run a pack of dogs that are in the middle .   They will get ruff and gritty on a big boar to make one face up and stay loose nuff and tight nuff to keep him in nutral till the catch dog and us gets there.  In this you cannot run a dog that wants to get catchy they have to be smart dogs cause one catchy dog and you got trouble if you are a long way off they are all gonna pile in.  Also I like dogs that know their limit to big and rank hold him big but not rank catch him , its a hard thing to get this right it is a breeders challange hard to do .  Been working on it for a while now and still working on it .

If for some reason I could not get the dogs I want in the middle . I am a ruff dog man I want them stopped as fast as I can get them stopped.  I ain't got 20,000 acres to fool around on and it gets awful irritating to be chasing hogs for miles.  Just so I don't start a augments here this is for the type of land I hunt.  I understand were people have to use loose dogs and if I was in there situation I would probably do the same but I sure don't want to unless it is a must . 

X2...

x3 and to me there is smart rough dogs, seems like the butt rough dogs are smarter and live a long life now im not saying thay don't get scared up a little, but the rough dogs that catch on the ears don't last long and seem to get alot of loose bay dogs cut up.

i say gear up for the country and the type of hogs you are hunting..
   
if you can be right on top of your dogs in a small area go to catch them in there tracks.

if you are hunting some big country that is hard to get around in, you had better put a set of dogs together that will bay a hog for a good long while.

like we have all learned there are some hogs you cant stop no matter what you do..

We run one loose and one rough too. Usually ends up pretty good.

i run nothing but rough dogs my buddy has loose bay dogs and they work just fine together .his dogs dont get catchy with mine  and if you guys would suit the rough dog up like they need to be they live a long time i got 3 rough sobs on the retirement line and they earned it .a good vest is alot cheaper then all he vet bills 

dogs can still get cut or killed with a vest on..

no need to start a argument..

this is about rough dogs vs loose dogs not about vest or no vest.

 LOL YA OK MY BAD  YOU MUST HAVE LOOSE BAY DAYS

LOOSE BAY DOGS I MENT TO SAY

Yup. I ask before we hunt. ;)

I think the argument isn't loose vs rough but rather smart vs stupid within the ranks of each category.

When folks say they want a rough dog, I dont think anybody means they want dogs that find a hog, run to catch and proceed to grab whatever is open, getting flung, shaking their heads violently and getting cut to heck in the process.

Nor do I feel anyone wants a loose dog to strike a hog, stand back 40 yards and trail bark as it continues to walk off.


However, out of those two styles, which dog do you feel would be not only effective till help arrives, but live long enough to earn his keep?

x2 i totaly agree

If a loose baying dog gets killed because of a rough dog in the pack then that loose baying dog wasn't really a loose baying dog after all...must of been a smart bay dog but got careless with the rough dogs help...

I DONT LIKE RUNING HOGS I LIKE TO STOP THEM. I ONLY HAVE ONE FOOT AND THEY WORK JUST FINE FOR ME :P

If a loose baying dog gets killed because of a rough dog in the pack then that loose baying dog wasn't really a loose baying dog after all...must of been a smart bay dog but got careless with the rough dogs help... couldnt have said it better if i tryed

There are plenty of "loose baying dogs" that will help catch...

I used to have a bmc that was loose baying on big hogs, but would help catch anything once the bulldogs got there and he would lock on too...

I hunted him with some " rough " dogs and they got a 250# boar in a creek.. When we got there the rough dogs were biting/grabbing the hog but couldnt handle it... My bmc grabbed on when they tried and he was the only dog that caught and held ...   every dog on the ground got cut except one...

So one example of when loose baying dogs get wrecked is when a rough dog tries a hog they cant handle...

to me it depends on where your hunting, how the pigs act (runners or fighters), how big the acres are, some older hunters i know like runners to listen to the dogs work, i like mine alittle gritty but i also had a pack of 5 rcds that i ran on small places cause i know if i hear squealin or they stop, they are caught on somethin

Exactly right my friend. Loose dogs dont necessarily never touch a hog, they just know to wait on human interaction. If a pack of loose dogs never touched a hog until they saw the catchdog hit, hence, they knew the handler was on his way, then somebody else comes along with a bunch of rough dogs who catch a boar while the handler is still 1000 yards away, how is that the fault of the loose dogs?


this is and was my whole point about smart vs stupid. Loose dogs dont mean your gonna be on a ten mile race if you've got good loose dogs who know how to work. If the dogs you drop ain't got no hog sence then it dont mug matter what style they are. You'll either be chasing hogs or chasing bay busters.

I agree with Stringbean on this one. Sorry Reuben.

I 100% disagree. My dogs are all loose baying dogs... they'll will sink teeth in one and catch when the catch dog does. But they will set back and bay one till the cows come home.

When I refer to a rough dog, I'm talking about one that catches or tries to catch everything. I dont consider dogs that grab the ass end to stop one as being rough.

Rough dogs and loose dogs don't mix...  a lot of good dogs have been hurt and killed because of it.

Cutter...who is stringbean? ???

twillabanks...

All my loose baying dogs have been cut but its cause they have exposed there selves to lots of bad hogs.lol I agree don't mix the two.

well i prefer my loose bayin mutts.they both been on the bad end of hog and learned to respect.but i dont HAVE to catch every hog they start tho.rough dogs got their place as well .those dogs i usually wind up puttin dirt over their bodies ,used to run a set of each for diferent spots.with the loose dogs i aint haveing to buy dogs every 6 mo.to yr.

well he is right...the best dogs will have to be loose baying but put teeth on a hog to stop the hog and then be content to back up and bay...to me it real hard to get this type of dog...maybe shouldn't say this type but cow type dogs tend to do this rather well but lack in hunt and bay
nose...talking about percentages on a type of dog not  a breed.

I like a dog that will get up close  to hog and bay in his face and dares it to break...downside is the hog and can break and get away if the hog is in a place where the dog is in a spot where it can not keep up.

When i thought my pack was at its best the dogs would stop any  boar in the open woods but in the thick stuff it was bay busting until dogs overheated or they or they caught up...

Breeding bottom, hunt, nose for winding and trailing and the ability find a hog was easy for my dogs but the baying style was a major challenge...one dog and the might hold and maybe 2dogs but not 3...sometimes the bay would bust with one dog...didn't really need a bulldog because dogs would catch or back up on command...

But I will say that I want enough grit to stop a hog. To catch most any hog and stay on it as long as it is alive ...on a big boar to catch enough to keep it there until I get there and give the command to catch or back up so I can shoot...this type of dog is smart enough day in and day out but can get cut down on a river bank or next to a ledge etc.etc....
Biggest breeding issue I ever dealt  with had to do with this topic...I opt to breed in the direction of more grit and invest in running vests ...

Well hope it made sense ..i don't do too good on my phone...

Everybody will have their own opinion on this topic----mine is that rough dogs will either catch the hog or make him run.
I went through a time when I thought I needed rough dogs because pigs broke bay and ran, so I bought a couple of rougher dogs----bays still broke occasionally and hogs ran---vet bills piled up and rough dogs eventually died. As I got older in years I tried the opposite, I have changed dog style again---now I run cowards that wont quit barking and let the catch dog do the catching. Seems the hogs dont break and run as much because of less pressure. I still have a bay break occasionally and still get out run sometimes but I havent been to the vet for repairs in 3 years. Just depends on what you as an individual like and what works for you. We all hunt hogs in totally different areas and situations.
If you like what you have stick with it.

Good stuff.

I like grit but it just might not be the best way...i like to see the dogs wear down and catch a big boar...

I agree...makes me question myself again... :-\ :(

HAHAHA, you just need to hunt what you got and the results will help calm your mind  ;D  Trial by fire brother..

I like loose bay dogs; both of my strike dogs want a hog to stand face to face with them and will put teeth in their rear if they don’t. I have several other dogs that will bay a big hog, two hundred and larger but any smaller is caught on sight. Isn’t exactly what I want, but they don’t have to chase that one. I guess they’re smarter than I give them credit for. I see people talking about vesting there strike and bay dogs, I don’t. I live in south Texas and I have enough trouble with dogs overheating!! 

In this discussion you have to take out junk dogs. ALot of people will claim their dog is rough because it runs in and tries to grab. Thats not rough.... thats junky. ALthough I like loose dogs , if the hogs are moving I expect them to put teeth on them. If that are bayed they need to back up and bark. A dog that NEVER puts any teeth on a hog can make for just as long of a night as a junky one always bumping bayed hogs.

 After reading all of the posts about rough dogs over the years....maybe what I call a rough dog isn't what everyone else is calling a rough dog because the dog that I call rough (RED) has been on hundreds of hogs and he we gauge how big a hog is by whether or not Red is baying or quiet because he is caught. He always catches with the cd also. We got him three years ago as a pup. He has only been to the vet one time and that was to get a toe amputated because of an infection.  On the other side of the spectrum is our loose baying dog (Foot) he doesnt have many scars and he will even bay a smaller hog. He doesn't always help catch, he is the one that will roll out if we tell him to.

I always read about rough dogs having lots of vet bills, so maybe ol Red isn't as rough as I thought.  ;)

I like to hunt ruff dogs that knows their limitations  for the most part 4-6 rough catahoulas  is all I ran for the last 9 years
 and still do for the most part and I ride the unicorns  ;)
 and if its going bad  the unicorns get to play
 since  Trippz and Queen are on the retirement plan will be using the white dogs more for catching and less for riding
           Dexter

IMO-It has alot to do with the country you hunt.
Open timber tracts may be more suited to a rougher type dog that can get to a runner.
Loose bay dogs seem to work better in heavy thickets.

In my experience a rough dog will break alot of bays in a heavy thicket and cause those 2 mile runs.

I have rough,loose and I usually hunt the dogs best sutted to the terrain.

Most of my places get dogged every week and is very bad thickets.
1 loose bay dog usually and 3 straight catch RCD's,1 lead in CD works best for me.

IMO-If a Rough dog can't get to a runner he can't stop him.
I know that Im always looking for that perfect dog that will find,bay,shut one down and get in his face,catch,roll,YaYaYa.
There is a few out there but very hard to find and even harder to get your hands on.

100% right on...open woods/country and it was a caught hog...thick heavy brush and my dogs were running a hog. Still might catch it but the dogs or maybe not due to over heating or trespassing...with lots of money one can breed both types...