EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Back in rifle season of 2011, my wife was driving on the turner turnpike and saw a older man driving, with a huge buck in the back of his truck. She took a picture to show me how big he was. A couple days later we saw on Facebook, that a deer was shot from outside of a local hunting ranch. The person that told us about it had a decriptsion of the truck but no license plate number. I was thinking about it and like a light bulb the picture my wife took. We went over to the ranch owners place showed them the picture. And it was their deer!!! The game wardens went to the mans house wrote a big ticket and took back the antlers. Sure happy for Facebook, cause without it we probably wouldn't have got to help our neighbors out!!

you've never took a deer by other than legal means?  Maybe you felt right about it, but I see that as snitching.  I wouldn't have turned them in, but thats just the way I see it.  Game wardens already have too much jurisdiction and power, and I don't think they need any more help.

how was it proved to be the same deer ?  was it dna tested ?

i agree game wardens have more authority than the pope  >:(

Really??? What if you paid for the deer, the feed, the management methods, the property maintenance etc... Would you want this good samaritan to help you get another thug out the woods or let him continue to trespass and kill your animals? I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect but wrong is wrong. I try my damnedest to do what is right and may slip up, but blatantly shooting through a fence at a deer is stupidity at its best and deserves to be caught!

x2 do yall not know how much money those deer cost that's just another form of stealing

X 2

  Theft is just that stealing. Wonder if they will steal something else? We have a moral problem in this country.

To the second and third posters,,, if someone steals one of your dogs, dont get upset, i mean, hasnt everyone , at one time or another, come across a good strike dog by less than legal means,,,,, sin,,,, is,,,,, sin,,,,, and stealing is stealing,,,

was it an exotic?  If it wasn't, then he did not steal anything.

 Could be reading it wrong, but looks like some outside the ranch shot into the ranch and harvested the ranch's deer without permission or payment, if thats how it went down, i'd call it stealing, poaching, illegal,,, etc

If it was inside the fence it doesn't matter if it was exotic or not

Now, I am not entering into a petty argument over this.  BUT if it was an indigenous animal, then it belongs to the State of Texas.  It is my understanding through a little research that yes, you can high fence an area, yes you can purchase and transport and breed and innoculate deer inside of this high fence, but own them you cannot.  Firing a weapon from a road, across a road, or within so many feet from a road is illegal.  Trespassing is illegal.  Unless the animal in question was an exotic, it was NOT stolen.  It would be mighty hard to prove without dna that the animal shot, was raised by that ranch. 

 :-\ :-X popo

It was stolen because the rancher with the high fence can decide who hunts there.

It was taken illegally I'm sure, if the Game Warden wrote a ticket.  But, you are arguing semantics here. And, I assure you, you are wrong.  You cannot steal something from someone if they do not own it.  In any capacity.

Texaslacy, let me throw a hypothetical situation at you, as I am just  curious.

Say you've got a buddy who has a 1000 acre deer lease, which he has exclusive hunting rights to. He has 3 yrs of trail cam pics of  a 170inch double drop tine buck. He has set feeders and planted food plots with the hopes of getting this deer. One day you just happen to be driving by your buddies lease and see a truck pulling out with that deer in the back.

From what i have read, I'm assuming your not going to call your buddy or a warden since your buddy doesn't own the deer and you don't want to be a snitch? Just curious.

And not that it matters, but I believe the original poster is from Oklahoma.

Sorry bout the quote in there. Typing on my phone, not sure how that got there.

It probably matters a lot as that is a different state. I'm not arguing that it's wrong, I am simply campaigning for proper vernacular to be used. And, no, I would not alert the authorities in your hypothetical situation. I would however, gather pertinent information to reveal to my buddy to use in whatever way he deemed suitable to handle the situation.

??? ??? ???

so..... you WOULD snitch?... LMAO

"you've never took a deer by other than legal means?  Maybe you felt right about it, but I see that as snitching.  I wouldn't have turned them in, but thats just the way I see it.  Game wardens already have too much jurisdiction and power, and I don't think they need any more help".
 :angel: ;)

Check me if I am wrong here, but isnt this exactly what Deepfork did in this situation?? He took pertinent information, the picture, to the landowner to do what he needed to do. Is it the fact that the landowner wasn't his buddy that makes him a snitch here? Or am I missing something.

I guess we are just different. I would call the law, warden, friend or neighbor if I saw something or knew of something going on that wasn't right. Be it on a buddies land or not. And I would hope that I would recieve the same courtesy from other people. I saved for several years to be able afford my lifetime hunting and fishing license and it pisses me off to no end when I hear of some random jackass with no respect for anyone else who just poached a trophy deer , or anything along those lines. Grade school is over, so I'm not worried about being a "snitch".  I dont look at it that way, I look at it as doing the right thing.

And as far as wardens having too much power I dont buy into that either. They have a job to do, like it or not. Not trying to come off as holier than thou, but stay on their good side and there shouldnt be any problems. Same thing with police. I have never taken any game illegally that I have known of. Had I been caught doing something illegal, so be it, I screwed up and would face the consequences. Have I been pulled over for speeding, yes. But guess what, I was speeding. Have I got a public intox, yes. But I was drunk and being ignorant. Never had any problem with either as long as I wasnt doing wrong.

Sorry for calling you out on this one but it just struck a nerve by calling someone a snitch when they were just doing the right thing. Thats all I have to say about that.

TexasLacey, no I have not ever shot a deer out of season. We did the right thing, sorry you think it is snitching!! Personal I think not!! We were helping a local family that is trying to make living. And no I was not exotic, it was a 150 inch whitetail. It doesn't matter if it was a exotic or no, the man that shot the deer was on the road and shot thru a high fence and here in Oklahoma that is illegal!!

Thank you to the fellas the agrees with me on this!

I see it as deepfork doing EXACTLY the right thing.

Snitch??  Good grief.

I bet 75% of the cases game wardens end up filing on begin with information they've obtained by someone who saw something.  Unfortunately, they can't be everywhere all the time.  This is the exact reason the "Operation Game THIEF" program was started in Texas.  Someone observes a gill net in the river, they call....someone see's someone hunting migratory birds over baited fields, they call.  You're correct in that all whitetail deer in the state of Texas are owned by the state.  That translates to ownership by me, you, and everyone else who lives and pays taxes to the state.  So yes, I do own a portion of every deer in the state and I aim to protect OUR resource whether I suppose it's termed being a "snitch" or not.

I suppose if you looked out the window and saw theifs hauling crap out of your neighbors house, that calling the authorites would also be "snitching" and best thing to do would just be ignore the situation and kindly let the neighbor know upon his return home what you saw??

Maybe someone will come steal TexasLacys crap while his neighbor is watching.  Then when he asks his neighbor what he/she saw they will just tell him...." I ain't no SNITCH!!"   >:D  >:D

lol my thoughts exactly

Next time someone is missing a dog you know whose house to drive by looking for it now? But dont ask if he knows any information. That would be snitching. Nobody hates snitches worse than a thief. haha

He can say snitch or whatever. I did the right thing, heck if I owned a hunting ranch and payed for the deer that's in it and somebody shot one without permission, I'd want someone to help me out, just like I did. I bet if texaslacys saw somebody stealing or poaching he'd do the same thing maybe but more than likely. The only reason I think he used the word snitch is because it didnt happen to him.

Again, I'm not a proponent for poaching.  Seems to me that several people posting in this topic are apparently ignorant of what the definition of stealing is. Bottom line, if deep fork feels the need to report alleged poaching then so be it. I'm not one to involve myself in a situation like that. Just my personal conviction on the subject. For the ones who have likened me to a thief, you may first of all feel free to reread my posts and please point out what part of what I've written advocates theft, and secondly I've never stolen anything in my life. So, you may also feel free to keep your opinions to yourselves concerning a mans character unless you have the testicular fortitude to speak these words in a more personal venue.  ;D

I don't like to get other people business either, but I live in a small community where everybody knows everybody and if I have chance to help a neighbor out you can count on it!! Either if it's helping them change a flat or calling the game warden.  So don't go out and call a snitch!

I too live in a small community and I applaud you for helping a neighbor out. If you saw what I said as a personal attack on your morals or integrity, I apologize.

I just see the game wardens as trying to prosecute people simply because of the revenue generated through fines and such. And I will not help them do that.

I guess no one here has ever dogged deer, baited doves, called catfish or anything else to provide for their family that some bureaucrat has deemed "illegal?"

I can tell by your attitude you have never been on the other side of the fence.

When you spend thousands of dollars and many,many hours on leasing land, food plots, running feeders, mending fencing and managing the wildlife for years and years.....to have some jack nuts cut those fences, and gates and fire hunt the place and ruin years of hard work.

Because he has to so called "provide for his family".......The wardens dont have enough power!

Yeah I did take it as you were making it sound like I was a bad guy for turning the man in. Now on the other hand a man that needs to provide for his family is a different story. I have a wife and to samll kids and I will do whatever it takes to put food on the table and a roof over their heads!! My opinion the man that shot the deer wasn't providing for his family. There is a lot of dirt roads around us and I'm sure there is a lot of doe's running around, but when a man shoots and 150 inch buck from inside of the fence and cutting the fence to get out, I believe that the only thing he wanted is the horns!!

x2

unreal

Why would anyone want to steal a Lacy? Atleast steal something of use  ;D

hey hey now lets leave the lacys out of this...thought we were arguing over deer...lol  ;D

PUT THAT IN YOUR BOOK! ;)

NEXT.....  ;D

Good one!!  Peachcreek- Did you check to see if you had the TESTICULAR FORTITUDE to post a comment like that!!??

Naw i forgot to look ??? ;D I barely graduated from high school so I had better bow out of this battle of the big werds.  ;D

Aren't you clever?  You figured out how to use tha google on tha internets machine did ya?

(http://www.smileyhut.com/fighting/box.gif) (http://www.smileyhut.com)

Lets Get Ready To Rumble!!!  ( if you have the testicular fortitude )


Sorry, im just stirring the pot... Dont hurt me!!   (http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/chair.gif) (http://www.smileyhut.com)

    ;D     (http://www.smileyhut.com/happy/gap.gif) (http://www.smileyhut.com)     :D

Texas Lacey I understand the point you are trying make in your last several posts even though I and nobody else agrees with you. Technically by your definition the guy doesnt "OWN" the ranch either. It belongs to the Government. That is why he pays taxes on it every year. If the Govt decides they need it back then by Imminent domain they can take it back. The way I look at it if he bought the deer and they are in his fence then he owns it. If it walks across his property line then it belongs to the next guy. If he shoots a purchased deer inside a high fence, sneaks into the fence and drags it out then that is stealing. If you chose to split hairs to make it sound ok the go for it.

Anyone who has any kind of morals or ethics is obligated to say something in this situation. In your first post you pretty much admitted to taking deer by illegal means (which lets us know about your character) and said that by the OP alerting the landowner of the criminal activity he saw that he was a "snitch" (also informing us of your character). Basically you told us that you feel it isn't wrong if you dont get caught. I didn't say you are a thief but from what you have said in this thread I wouldn't turn my back on you if I knew you were on my property.

IF THE STATE OWNS ALL HTE DEER IN THE STATE IM GONNA SEND THEM A BILL NEXT TIME ONE RUNS INTO MY TRUCK

Great post. I agree 100%, I cant believe anyone would question that what the OP did was right! Even if it isnt stealing, its chicken sh#t!! and killing deer illegaly is chicken sh#t too! And anyone that has to poach a deer to provide for their family needs to try this new idea out called GET A JOB!

Well said!

Agree 100% marks!!

Who needs a job when you can be on unemployment for years at a time  :laugh:

better yet put THAT on Facebook!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

You are making a lot of assumptions my friend.

Judging from your post, I don't see how you ever have time to hunt, with fulfilling your "obligation" to report any and all illegal actions that occur on a daily basis.

 :laugh: And you men think that women are bad! rolleyes Makes a difference when you are standing up for something you believe in. You should think about that the next "disagreement" you get into with a woman. Food for thought! ;D

If everyone can sleep better at night because they were able to point their little fingers at someone and make themselves feel morally superior, and that is what they need to do in order to validate themselves as "better" than someone else then so be it.

As an attempt to find humor in this post, I shall quote Tony Montana as an anecdotal response.


Tony Montana: What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of' a$$holes. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

When the government utilizes imminent domain, they only force you to sell, they don't take it from you.

Texaslacy give it up. You was outta line on that. lol

(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii166/southrnboi069/used/bad0b789.jpg)

Dammit I actually had to go teach the youth of america and missed a few things!!!   

TexasLacy-  While Im tryin to figure this here GOOGLE thing out you must be sitting with a dictionary and thesaurus in your lap finding them BIG words to use in your posts!!  No one who associates themselves with Lacy dogs should use words they dont know the meaning of!!!  LOL 
Trenton- when is the rumble gonna start??!!

So does that mean we won't get to read any more posts from you?

Remember the Alamo!

Well I sleep fine at night, but I can promise you if i saw some one doing wrong and i didn't do the right thing then i wouldn't sleep good at night.  Has nothing to do with a high horse or what ever else you said, just boils down to right and wrong.  And as far as I know i have yet to break any state game laws, because i realize those laws are in place for a reason. And if you are in a bind trying to put food on the table, don't you think instead of driving around spotlighting and road hinting deer you should sell your rifle and get a second job?

Did you read the original post?  The man in the pickup had a deer in the back that the op's wife took a picture of.  The op did not witness the crime take place.

Also, I am not in a bind trying to put food on the table.  I'm not quite sure where you got that impression.  Maybe from my suggesting that the man who had a deer in the back of the truck maybe was feeding his children.  Who knows?

Deepfork, do you have further details on the situation?  Like, what the man was accused of, or what he was fined for, or any of the circumstances?  What further actions were taken by the oklahahoma game wardens?

Was accused of shooting from a truck, and killing a privately owned deer! And fined for both. The gw wrote the ticket for that and took his lifetime licness and the rifle he used. The man that owns the deer is taking the man to court and trying to get him to serve to time something in that nature.

Texaslacy- you don't know what you are talking about. You use a lot of big words, but you speak gibberish. You are caught up in a common misconception that game wardens have so much power. Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you, but they don't. They don't have any more power than any other police officer anywhere else. They are bound and restricted by the US Constitution just like the rest of us. Even hunters have civil rights that are illegal to violate. And yes I am a police officer and have been for a long time and guess what. It IS illegal to shoot across a fence line. And yes, with the growing popularity of deer farms in the State of Texas, YOU and everyone else can OWN DEER. That makes it your property. Statue defines stealing as "depriving someone of their property". If you kill a deer that belongs to a rancher. You stole it. And yes its a felony. Go pick you up a Texas Trophy Hunter magazine and check the prices of these deer you can BUY in the classifieds then you would understand why people get so upset.

Also, imminent domain, read up on that.

Oh yeah one more thing. It IS against the law here in Texas to see, know of, or have information on a crime that has been committed and not report it.

Not necessarily correct.  Not sure about other states, but in Texas Game Wardens are commissioned officers just like any other law enforcement with full powers of arrest for any violation, however they retain the right to enter a residence without warrant if reasonable suspicion of a game law violation exists.  In addition, wardens also have full state jurisdiction.

They cannot enter your residence on reasonable suspicion alone. They have to have probable cause just like the rest of us. Every police officer has statewide jurisdiction as of 2005. They are bound to an area by departmental policies.

Also, we (and game wardens) are even more restricted on the search and seizure laws as of a 2010 supreme court ruling that was brought forth by some stupid new mexico officers that decided to exceed and abuse their authority.

Texas penal code, as an Leo I would've expected you to know this already.


§ 31.03. THEFT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he unlawfully appropriates property with intent to deprive the owner of property.


And, no, an individual cannot own a deer in Texas.

You, good sir, speak ignorant gibberish. How can you uphold the law if you don't even know the law?

Can you explain?  The definition you quoted doesn't say a thing about owning a deer or not.  Or is that just something you have been told.  Just curious. 

Let me get in front of a computer and off of my phone and I will post proposed hbills that have failed from land owners attempting to make deer personal property.

I'm sure Texas and Oklahoma has totally different laws, do what you gotta do!

It is illegal to possess any wild animal who naturally lives in the state (ie., squirrels, crows, deer) unless you are transporting the animal to a licensed wildlife rehabilitator for care. It is illegal to provide rehabilitation to a sick, injured or orphaned wild animal without proper permits and licenses.

Senate bill sb-1504 and house bill hb-2901 were both proposed legislation allowing the private ownership of Texas state deer.

Here's an interesting article to read that is concerning the point I have been trying to make.  

It even has pretty pictures to look at  ;)

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Who-owns-all-deer-in-Texas-You-may-be-surprised-111499214.html

I am quite sure that they do. I believe in Oklahoma, you have to own a licence in order to farm deer. 

But that was not the question I was answering.  I thought we had settled the matter of who what where and when concerning the case you were posting about.  Most recently, Bailey508 (who is a self professed law enforcement officer) was making false statement about Texas law which I (hopefully) have made understood to be incorrect information, and also at the same time helped to educate him and others by providing correct and truly factual information.

Legal definition of eminent domain; The power to take private property for public use by a state, municipality, or private person or corporation authorized to exercise functions of public character, following the payment of just compensation to the owner of that property.

maybe you should have read up on it before you decided to post.

I thought we did too, didn't know if you were talking to me or bailey508.

Texaslacy-  Im not in the hunt but Im curious why I have to pay the state of texas for a breeders permit each yr in order to raise and own Whitetail deer in the state of texas If I do not own them?

Im with everyone else , If someone shoots across my fence and I catch them there wont be any law enforcement called I promiss!

TexasLacy, I thought you ended this post a few posts back with your quote from Tony Montana.  Its getting old. You feel your right and seemingly everyone else thinks your wrong.  

The only whitetail deer you own is the one hanging on your fireplace!

I couldn't tell you the answer to that, if it was my money I was giving to them, I would make dern sure what exactly I was paying for.


Because of the simple fact that I AM right, and it seems that every time I turn around there is some yahoo posting their own cockamamie idea on what the laws are.  Unfortunately, I am not the kind of person to concede or surrender.  ESPECIALLY when there have been personal attacks made against my character and integrity.  Just because the majority of posters on this thread share an opinion opposite of mine does not make that consensual opinion the right one, and because I stand alone, does not mean that I am wrong.  It is quite the opposite actually.  I have made a clear, valid and concise point with references and specific cases and failed (house and senate) bills proving the illegality of wildlife ownership in Texas.  But still, I face an opposition of which contains an overwhelming majority of people who stand unwavering.  And, that is fine, I does not mind a debate, but you asked why I have not stopped posting here, and the answer to that is this;  Unfortunately, for you it seems, as "Its getting old."  This is America, and I can.

You might have some facts and laws to post to help with your opinion but it seems like your moral compass might need to be calibrated.

Because I didn't jump on the holier than thou bandwagon?  Right is right, wrong is wrong.  Period.  Happy?

TexasLacy, your smart a$$ is about to be shown the door... I'd suggest you drop it and move on.

That's what unwashed looking for Texas lacy thanks. I'm still not on your side but it probably cleared up a lot of misunderstandings.

??? ??? ???

duly noted, I apologize for my tenacity.

Darn... Right when I get through reading all the posts and had a lot to say, its over. I was very prepared to show Texaslacy that he isn't the only sesquipedalian on the board.... ;D

Hey not tring to stir the pot any but keslling kennels is right if you have a breeding facility and breeders permit then the deer in that facility are the owners.  As soon as you release them from the facility even in side a high fence with a tx id they are the states not the owners.  This is in texas only.  In oklahoma if they are inside a high fence with a I'd they are the owners and can move them back and forth from pens to pasture etc.  Texas is pretty hard on deer breeders but that is a whole nother subject.  Also I know this from working at a high fence facility with breeder pens and we move deer here and there if you want to see go to www.4mwhitetails.com

Oh well... Maybe next time. Lol.

   I CANT BELIEVE 5 PAGES AND 2 DAYS GOT WASTED ON THIS SUBJECT ! AGREE TO DISAGREE, KISS AND MAKE UP AND LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE ! IT HAS BEEN ENERTAINING THOUGH .

NEXT....... ;D