EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Sittin at my desk lookin at my geometry book slowly dying inside so i figured id start a topic tgat ive been wanting to hear about. I hav a Blackmouth pup that's about a year old and is as leggy as a great Dane almost lol. All the cur dogs I see people use now are kinda on the smaller side. But An old cowboy was at the house the other day and saw my dogs and started rattling on story's about the old style stock dogs that were about 80-100 pounds, and real leggy. Not foundation bred either....! I really enjoyed looking at his old pictures of his dogs working and hearing stories. If anybody has or used to hav these old style big leggy cur dogs lets hear some stories and see some pics!

When i think of an old style cur dog I visualize a block headed leggy Yeller dog that was a step off of a catch dog. Usually very short range and dead silent. (Poacher style cur dogs)  I guess a persons visualization of what an OLD STYLE is, would have alot to do with the persons age and what they were exposed to during their youth. I only have one dog on my place that fits my  model ole style cur dog and he isn't even out of my dogs.  I had never seen or heard of a catch dog until hunting for six or seven years and the big pit craze started. Prior to that we used all rough cur dogs. When we got to bay we told them to catch and that porky pig was streched.  Alot of the old cowdogs I recall were built a little different. They were leggy but alot thinner framed. More stream lined I guess you would say. I have a mixture of the two traits in mine and it just goes from litter to litter on what trait will show heavier. I personally like the cowdog frame better due to they usually can do some traveling and the stamina to keep up. But I love the old poacher dogs as well cause them yellers need GAME OVER stamped on the flanks when they go in a thicket.

This is an old dog built and hunts the way I visualize the old style thicket hog dogs. He is from Indianvalleyranch brother and they have no background on him except he came from an old ladies house. Dead silent short range and absolutely GAME OVER dog when he gets there. I use him for a straight catch dog and he will die on the place. In his younger day he was a monster prob weighed 85 plus.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2011-08-30_10-46-38_238.jpg)

These several pics are more throwbacks to the cowdog side and build.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2011-10-21_13-52-53_638.jpg)

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2012-03-11_19-26-42_36.jpg)

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/2012-03-11_19-25-24_19.jpg)

And here is both side by side. The old dog on the left was just as leggy as the pup but heavier built in his day.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/thicketpics003.jpg)

Anyway great post man should be interesting to see what else pops up.

Good lookin yellas! I guess I should hav been more specific. I am leaning more toward the thinner framed, long legged cover some country type dogs

They look leggy to me... kid7 the dogs you described are what I consider newer style

Well idk Wat to tell ya bud. I've talked to about 5 different guys that are in their 50s and 60s and one that was 70 and they all talked about tge dogs they had and every other old cowboy had were real leggy I'm talkin like 3 1/2 foot tall and about 80-100 pounds. And they were Blackmouth curs. They never heard of a catch dog till after they quit huntin. Now I have no clue Wat kinda dogs you hav or Wat you see and I'm not tryin to be a smarta$$ by any means but every cur dog I've seen was anywhere from 30-60 pound range. They can still be leggy but they weren't thinner framed dogs that weigh 80-100 pounds.

I've got one of both that ya;ll are describing, but the smaller one is crossed with a pit.  The leggier dog, is tall, close to 70 lbs, big blocky head.  the shorter dog, it what I consider to be the better build.  I consider her more athletic...

 good looking yellers. they kinda look like ladner bred dogs.

Do you have a pic of what your describing maybe I'm not comprehending what your meaning

 A friend of mine has one just like you are describing. His name is Bighead. I will try to get a picture and post it tomorrow. He is just a bit shorter than a great dane and has a big ol block head. LOL, they use him on cattle but he is real rough so they don't use him often. He is getting old. I thought about finding a female like him to breed to just because Ive havent seen very many like him.

I have not been hunting very long and am just starting to get my own pack going. The "old style" cur dogs as you and YBM describe are what I am pretty sure I would like to have in my yard. I've got buddies who have some sure enough straight catch yeller dogs, but none of them are built the way I want. I am after some big, leggy, block headed, and  heavy built like a brick $hitouse dogs. I am wanting little to no bark, but a whole lotta catch. I dont want dogs that wont get away from your feet, but I dont want dogs that hunt a mile out  unless they are actually on a hog either as we usually hunt smaller properties. I have seen pics on the interweb of dogs built like I want, but finding them in the real world is a different story. I have hunted with BayemandSlayem, who hunted with RockinRoo, who had a yeller dog from Bill Tolson that sounds like what I am after, and from the pics I seen of him looks like it too. I want some big yellers that step up into the truck bed, not have to jump into it. And yellers that when you just look at them you immediately think them are some bad ass dogs!

Guess the newer style dogs everybody is referring to are probably the foundation dogs since they are so mainstream these days. Most of them come smaller famed in the 50lbs and under range. The old dog above was around 80lbs and up when younger the pups are around 70 lbs. Camera angll might be lil misleading but they have all been put on the scales.

Here is a 90 lb Yeller if this is what your speaking of on left?
Downfalls I have delt with on the 100lb plus or minus dogs is stamina and range.
they are just like a heavyweight fighter, winded easily and once the stamina is gone they are completely done.
But again they usually make up for it with agression and the size to back it up.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h450/YELLOWBLACKMASK/bOOGgRINGO.jpg)

No I don't hav any pics. I should hav thought ahead sorry. But Wat I am talking about is Wat yellowblackmask described the block headed ones with lots of leg under them

Ok I thought you were talking about narrow headed type dogs my opinion the first pic ybm posted is what I consider old stock

YELLOWBLACKMASK hit the nail on the head! That 90 pounder is a mirror image of the dogs in the pictures I saw. Good lookin dogs yellowblackmask

(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/Picturelaney065.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/CIMG0241.jpg)
(http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu59/roos_01/DSC_0337.jpg)

This one here is pretty dang old style I guess. Long legs, large body but at around 65 pounds she is built for stretching out and going all day
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/t-bobparker/5f5b5ec4.jpg)
She ain't the least bit gritty catchy rough, whatever you wanna call it and from what I've learned from her, she don't need to be.



This next one is also from a couple pretty old lines and while she will catch if I ask it of her, she knows that ain't her job and I like it that way.
(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/t-bobparker/f1da4a85.jpg)

 


Hope you are not implying these are susposed to be old time  Black mouth cur dogs because they are not, never were and never will, just because you got roo in your title and come over and claim you are now a dog man dont make it true, you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time, lets get this tolson bs over with and debunk it before some newbie thinks that they are even black mouth curs much less a old time black mouth cur.  These dogs have too much size and bull dog heads and i bet he can not or you can  not prove they were or are black mouth curs that have not have some recent  outside breeds in them, after all, you were not there much less even alive to know the difference between a kangerroo and a blackmouth cur so how can you claim tolsons dogs are anything but something created to sell pups to newbies like you and others who dont know the difference in the first place.  Sounds like dog promotion 101 to me, lets see some pictures from at least 50 years ago if he really has a strain.  It is what it is, huge dog with black muzzle, thats all i see.  Looks like those Carathasns Bruno who uglydog on here can link to adds calling them catahoula bulldogs but 2 years later bruno is a yellow black mouth curLMAO!!!!!  There is nothing on the web about his dogs so fill us in why u claim these are even yellow black mouth curs much less old time black mouth curs, did you not post some bull dog pups pics from his kennel a way back on here seem to me i remeber??  Willis aint buying it!!!

Well dang I didn't want this to start a fire! I just saw old pictures and heard stories I hav absolutely NO proof or clue they were Blackmouth curs for all I know they could hav been half donkey lol anyways I don't wanna run anybody down

I think all this rain is getting to people.....any how....

 I want to post a pic up real bad but Im not taking my fresh washed truck out there to take the pic. I asked my friend to send me a pic next time he goes to the barn and he said tomorrow. Im telling you. This dog is exactly what you described.

Tell us how you really feel....

Could i get u to re-post the photos of ANY tolson bulldogs that I have EVER posted on here,it seems to have slipped my fragile little mind. He does have some incredible bulldogs by the way,mostly out of weight pulling dogs but u wont find any crossed into his cur dogs. If bill knew how to turn a computer on im sure he would join the rest of the "GURUS" that constantly breed dogs just for the sake of selling pups instead of USING them,you wont find a single bitch on Bills yard that hasnt paid her dues or been put to the test on cattle or hogs,unlike so many other yards where females go into the brood string at the hint of their first heat cycle just because they are yellow. Im about to take some michigan fellas on a hunt tonight with these bulldog/dane/weenie dog/poodle/greyhound/beagle/catahoula/mastiff/cur/doberman/maltese/treeing rat terrier crosses that i got from some hillbilly named tolson that dont know squat about dogs and aint been breeding and using this line for 30 years and see if they cant stumble over a hog and if i get lucky they might even bark at it a bit,thats if they dont chew on a few skunks and coons and run around barking at the moon like tolson dogs really do,hahaha.

Well this post started out nice.... So much for just friendly conversation.... :-\ :-\ :-\

I dont worry much bout what most people have to say bout my dogs. Especially obvious anal ones. Hopefully you dont either Rockin Roo. Fine lookin dogs no matter how you look at it.

Fine lookin dogs Roo! If they find pork who cares what anyone has to say about them!

RockinRoo, I apologize for mentioning your name and Mr. Tolsons, and then having some jackwagon decide to pop off and run his fingers. I have never met you, hunted with you, or your dogs. I have even less of a clue of who the heck Bill Tolson is. I just know what Casey told me about your dogs, and the pics that I have seen. And they sound and look like the type of dog I would like to have. To use my original words, "I am after some big, leggy, block headed, and  heavy built like a brick $hitouse dogs." Yours seem to look the part. I dont give a number 2 if someone tried to tell me they were some Yorkies, if they look like I want and hunt like I want, that is all I care about!

As for treeingRAT, I dont see where Mr. Roo tried to imply or claim a gosh damn thing.  The original poster asked about big, heavier, leggier cur dogs. Roo posted some pics that appear to fit the bill. Hell, give me a dog built like them, striped up like a zebra, with neon green eyes and call it a BMC. As long as it hunts the way I want and produces pork I dont give a number 2.

hey man nice dogs,if you are happy with the dogs and they catch pork and you bought them as black mouth curs thats all you need to know. who gives a rats --- what anybody else thinks

i won't get into the argument over the comments made and I'm no expert but from what I've seen the the Black mouth cur dog can come out bulky and stocky or lanky and thinner. the dog can come from a pale pale yellow almost white looking to such a dark shade of red that it matches the red bone hounds coat. It most surely is from the early days when families bred these dogs for there needs you know back when they were tools not pets. I'd be proud to own any of the dogs shown here but T- bob that one on the chain is a fine fine looking dog, If you were to head north with that one and I'd steal you a pair of july hounds to swap for her just based on her looks ;)

 Good looking cur dogs Roo !

Sorry T-bob the 2nd one on the chain, missed the chain in the first pic but that dog is built right as well.

And I apologize for starting the topic! All those dogs look good. I didn't want it to be a knife fight sorry guys

 :P :P :P :P :P Well here we go again.....this is really gettin' old. Don't apologize Kid7....you've done absolutely nothing wrong....thank you for posting on this forum for all of us to read and enjoy. Post again anytime you so desire.

 ETHD is like a big family. There are always a few a - holes in every family. Ive learned to just ignore them...... well kinda.

Man dont sweat the small stuff. Great post. This is one of the topics that is open to each individuals interpretation and personal experience. Again each persons experiences will be different from their own experience and exposure to whatever type dog they grew up hearing about.  No right or wrong answers....just coversating.   :laugh:

Just don't wanna run anybody down. Love this fourm and always wanna talk about huntin

No need to apologize Kid7,you were just asking a simple question. Did u find a home for your walker dog yet?

Yes sir I did the American Hoggers crew came from brownwood and picked him and a lil pup I had lol I've never even seen the show lol. someone tell me how they do!

Ever hear back from your movie star puppy?  :)

hank is doing great seth havent got him on the show yet but hope to get him on there soon

I think they are some nice looking dogs , ought to be able to handle a hog

I have 3 black mouths that have came from years of line breeding , craig lofton bred dogs , heres one that is leggy and at least 10 years old [ SALLY ]   she is top notch , very leggy  , 70 plus pounds

(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/bobscoggins/bobsdogs009.jpg)

heres one about 4 years younger out of the same line bred group also my favorite , shes shorter legged but all heart

CANDY
(http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z413/bobscoggins/bobsdogs006.jpg)

i run two of the block headed ones a male and a gyp

Bob

What area and line are your dogs out of?  They both look real good.

to be honest I really dont know , they are not papered , craig had a dog that was named earl , I never hunted with this dog but he claimed this dog was the best dog hes ever had , the dog is on the cover of the march 2004 bayed solid issue with craig , earl died and craig spent a few years line breeding to try to get these traits he liked back , I need to get more history for shure , craig still has a male from some of these breedings [ JR ], all mine are female

Like YBM said in an earlier post...it all depends on how old you are as to what old time dogs are...Old time dogs for me is dogs from the 1950's on back...he is some of the logic from back then...farm and ranch dogs were used for everything from guarding family and farm animals to hunting all kinds of wild game...and then herding the milk cows or roundup for doctoring and branding cattle... from what I have read the dogs were more of a medium size for 2 reasons that I can think of...one is that a fifty pound dog won't eat as much as a 75 to 100 pound dog...and the other is that most true blue dog men believe that a 50 pound dog has the stamina to hunt and or work all day...from some of the old pics I have seen the dogs usually are leggy with a medium head and with a decent ear...

I do know that the mtn cur dog was of the type I just described back then...and I am willing to bet that quite a few dog breeds out there have hound and bull dog bred in to improve grit or nose and hunt...and dogs of today are bred from one extreme to the other in the same breed...

the post that was made by treeing ratterior is the reason you guys dont see me much any more....     what the hell happened to common courtisy toward other people.
 even more amazing, well not ...   everyone is apologizing exetpt the guy who made the statement toward Jimmy and his dogs.

i dont want to start no argument here , but this has been a great place to educate new hunters and people who think we are all a bunch of  mouthy rednecks.   my dady told me if i dont have nothing good to say dont say nothing at all..   

this is still a great site, we have a great set of administrators and for the most part a great group of guys i have meet alot of you and have great respect for the ones i have meet.   

Craig you are correct. I like to joke and cut up on here. There are so many opinions about hunting with dogs that its really hard to explain. Its kinda like this there ain't no bit that will train a horse its the horse and the man riding him. And rocking roo might have ole time cur dogs from another state. Look at the Florida cur different from the Texas yellow dogs but still alot of the same character.

That post from treeing rat was back in March... and was culled from the boards then and there.

Thought he was being awfully quite lately.   ;D

thanks for the update Mike.  i didnt even check the date...  

Mike culls HARD  and i shure am glad he does.. ;D

Think he is secretly trying to put a good pack of e-hunters together. I just try to stay moving on the garmin about a mile away from him on his atv. I never find anything for him...but he thinks I am tearing it up..and usually culls the ones that are always in seeing distance.   ;D

x2

LMAO! That's great!  :laugh:

Better get a tan Myles you might not be dark enough for mikes pack.

im from the old blood and have shown him alot of hogs in my day so maybe i will get to lay around here on the chain   ;D

Yeah, them light colored dogs don't last too long around here!!!

Lol that's freaking hilarious right there!!!! :)

I would think these are pretty old style we've been able to track one side back to the 1950's

(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/baseball_10_03/dcd477df.jpg)

(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/baseball_10_03/cfd3aae6.jpg)

(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/baseball_10_03/bf05dd3a.jpg)

no knife fight,s please   some on hear are trying to get ready for an aii out toe fight. ;D ;D ;D

Yup, and nobody wants to bring a toe to a knife fight

Tshelly  that first dog looks alot like my old earl dog.  i have books full of pictures of him but that was before we all went digital.

This is the photo bob refered to.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/cralof/th_march04_cover.jpg?t=1321982838)

this might be easier to see

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r248/cralof/march04_cover.jpg?t=1321982838)

The old style dogs I saw around Grannys house in Saratoga during the 50's when they still had open range, were averaging around 50 to 55 lbs. They had to go find them first, keep them bayed 'till you found them, then keep them bunched and lead them several miles to the holding pens. If dark caught them, the dogs had to keep the stock bayed all night then lead them on to the pens that morning, winter and summer. Most of the big heavy dogs I've seen could not hold up to that. Dogs don't have to work like that these days and have gotten soft.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/blueduck_ranch/1f8217e7.jpg)
Jake

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/blueduck_ranch/bbd6b1e4.jpg)
Jakes son Slim

They do look a whole lot a like Craig! Bob had mentioned before that his dogs look alot like our red ones and he had originally gotten them from you.


KED: he is just a cold nosed cur dog, bred from a long line of working stock were best was bred to the best

craig said that earl came from a man in comanche okla name johny warren , does anybody have any info or history about this mans line of dogs , he also said the line he kept were leggy hood dogs , thanks in advance

Don't know if this dog fits the bill but based on some of the descriptions i've read he purty much fits the bill, i have absolutely no info on his background but he is a 1 mile plus no check in kinda dog.........he would be impossible to hunt with a garmin, he rolls out and stays gone all night, if he's in hearing range he will be at the bay and he will try a hog on his own. Just wish he was a bit faster on track.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/aefd7740-1513-2a5a.jpg)


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

GREAT lookin yella dogs guys. i wish my phone didnt go swimmin i would post mine up. thanks for all the posts

Justin where did u get that yella dog?

I can say this for rockin roo kennels them dogs sure enough hunt there ass off and take alot of pride in they're work and dogs are built different in different parts of the world so you don't know what they and in australia  those could be theyre yella black mouths number 2 who knows. Just take it easy on jimmy!anyways them dogs are sure enough bada$$! Each dog hunts differently and are different but Idc what kinda cur dog or cur/cross  it is as long as it goes and finds me a hog I'm happy.

Sean, just saw this post, i bought him from Mr. Witherspoon out of anahuac.


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

I have one dog left that matches what you're talking about. An old friend of mine used to have a line of dogs out of some old stock that came from north Alabama 100 years ago. This one that I have is worth his weight in gold to me. He's extremely smart, medium range, loose baying but will catch if you want him to. Best part about him though is how he is around kids. I would trust him to raise my kids for me. He loves kids more than he loves huntin'. He can flat-footed jump into the bed up a truck with the tailgate up. Twice as fast as any of my other dogs. Just wish I had more like him. I'm wanting a female to breed him to. I'd let others use him as a stud as long as their dog has a clean bill of health. I don't have near enough pictures of him and none of him lately. He's bigger now than he was in these pictures. I know where there is a litter mate female of his but they may have got her fixed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Dogs/IMG_20111221_150628-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Dogs/IMG_20110723_163616-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Dogs/IMG_20110401_132536-1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Dogs/IMG_20101214_195848-1-1.jpg)

And yes, he rides where ever he wants. I'll put the old lady in the back of the truck if it's raining. He's the one dog I would never part with even if i got out of hog hunting. He'd get a bath everyday and sleep in the bed before I got rid of him.

This was all him on these two hogs. He got out there nearly 1,000 yards bayed the first one till I got there, caught it, rolled out and bayed the second one until I got there and caught it. Only problem is he didn't help carry them back to the truck.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Hawgs/IMG_20111111_092843.jpg)

He found this one by himself. Other dogs showed up at the bay but he was baying it by himself before they got there.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/NechesBobcat/Hawgs/IMG_20111219_075632-1.jpg)

I have two (http://img.tapatalk.com/aefd7160-d3c1-f457.jpg)

I sold earl to Craig loftin. My name is Justin Hulsey I live in Luther Oklahoma. I quite hunting it became to hard to find places to hunt and the time to do so because of going to get a education for my family so I could better support them. If I wanted a pup out of some good blooded black mouths I would spend my money with Craig. Earl was a pleasure to hunt with even as a young dog never had to shock him from anything straight hogdog. Run a hog long ways of and get bayed up by himself and stay. Excellent at winding,running cold track. Can't remember to many times came home empty handed and we didn't have very many hogs where I hunted they were dogged hard. I bought him from James hill from Ardmore ok earl had a yellow brother that I hunted with and they both were awesome. I think James got them Johnny warren. You could always go buy a pup from a guy that doesnt hunt or a dog trader. I have had a bunch of them that never turned out. Wasted time and money. Someday I will buy my sons a pup and show them what I loved about this sport. I am glad that Craig has bred to keep good hogdog genes in his blood so he can replace dogs when they are lost. Someday I will give Craig a call looking for a earl pup.           
,