EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I would hate for someone to think that because I do not pray "for" something, that it means I do not care.

I was raised a brainwashed Christian... however, I'm not sure what I would call myself now.  I believe in God for reasons that only I can explain.  I believe he is a good being.  I believe he loves us.  I believe he created all of "this" for us...

Do I pray? Yes.

Just being here to experience life itself is more of a gift that anything else one could ever ask for.  So I do not ask for anything more.  I thank our creator for what each of us has been given thus far and ask for nothing else.  It is what it is.

Well said noah, i felt and still feel the same as yourself, growning up catholic, attending a catholic school and being fotrced to attend church twice a week, every week throughout grades school and highschool.....i felt that it wasn't right to force someone to attend something if they didn't want to.

I am a catholic and a believer, i have more or less the same outlook on it as yourself, nice seein others that share the same views.


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

Just wondering whAt sparked this post?

Many of my traditional Christian friends mention "prayer requests", both on this site and in my everyday life.  I don't want them to think that I do not care... because I do.  I just fundamentally believe there is no point in asking God to change his plans if you know what I mean

Its late and im wooped so if my figures are off a little i apologize but im sure you will get the jist of it:

The bible is 13 books, each of them written a hundred years (give or take) from each other, some in other countries from one another and in different original languages from each other (some not all).  now translate each of those books from one another to one another for a few thousand years and add in a King who changed it to suit him self and what do you end up with?  The metaphorical 5 year olds playin the telephone game.

I believe in God and Jesus Christ, and was raised a christian, but the more i read about different things in college the more i began to doubt my religion.  Over the years i learned there are some things which just cant be explained, and things we walk away from that we just plain shouldnt.

I posted a prayer request at the beginnin of the year for my dads health. When I posted it I was askin for strength through the troubling times not necessarily to change God's greater plan and that's what I get from the prayer requests here on the board is to pray for strength through there struggles.

I grew up in a very old school small non dominational church where if you didn't go to the Sunday and Wednesday services you where looked down upon and not one of the more 'popular' members. And since they kicked us out of the church for my parents gettin divorced (very old school small town city slicker church) I haven't found one that I enjoyed attending. That doesn't mean I don't accept the Lord as my savior or make me any less of a Christian.

I agree 100% with both of the above posts, i spend my time talkin to/ praying to my Lord in the woods and on the water......my mom and gf often worry about when I go by myself but sometimes i need to, just to clear my mind and attend my version of church...if that makes sense.


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

I also agree with the above posts the woods are where I do most of my praying when I'm going threw hard times I have a few spots I prefer to go hunt they a beautiful spots this is my reasoning for hunting them because I can look at all the gifts we were given verses all my little problems that I could fix my self and as Justin said above I didn't grow up catholic but penicostal and my grandpa who I lived with is a preacher I was at church every time the doors opened I was normally the one opening the doors

Noah, I understand your post.  I like the people who post on here.  I feel empathy with their struggles when they post a prayer request.  I wish them strength.  But I struggle with how to do that and in the midst of their struggles I do not wish to cause any argument or disrespect to them.  I usually simply decline posting.  The reason is because I am a "non-believer" or athiest. 

Romans 1:18-25
everyone will be without excuse

James 2:14-19
faith without works is dead

Matthew 7:21-23
do you really know him?

Same outlook here Noah, matter of fact I think we had a similar discussion awhile back. I don't believe in organized religion, however I do believe in god. I also believe he created this great universe for us. I also pray and talk to him but in a different way I guess. I feel close to him when I'm out in nature, or see  young children playing,etc. etc. You just know he created such things. I have absolutely nothing against a person who goes to church and is involved in every aspect of his or her religion. It's just not for me. I love and appreciate god no less than religious folks do and I got a strong feeling he loves me no less.

Noah - I want to put a bunch of reasons up why you should go to church but I'm only gonna put up a few verses (I assume if you believe in God you believe in the Bible) because I don't think that is what you are looking for in this thread.  They aren't about going to church but more about prayer. If I read it right you said you don't think God will change his plan just cause we ask. He may not change it but he might and it is worth asking. I pray for things I find important and things that are more selfish as well. Sometimes I just talk about what is going on with me. If God is or 'Father' He wants to hear from us about our day.

Jesus asked him to please find another way.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.


Abraham made a few requests and God changed his plan because of them.

Genesis 18
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing —to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. ”
 
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
 
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
 
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
 
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
 
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
 
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

marks,  Do you think God loves Noah or Justin or myself and others like us any less for not going to church ? As stated, we still pray , just not in a church. Also do you think church goers think of us any less? Just curious as to your thoughts on the questions.

Not tying to start an argument or anything I saw this post and thought I'd hop in. I grew up in church a lot like most of you and as a kid I was forced to go to church. But as I got older I began to realize that it wasn't about church at all it was about your relationship with God that mattered my grandpa was a pastor pretty old school too then we moved church's when I was 12 we went to a church where most of my family served there now my father is a pastor of the church we served at and. Even him as a pastor doesn't look down on people for not coming. Because that's not what it's about the bible says that God honors what is done in the secret place behind closed doors where no one can see you because anyone can be anything they want to be in front of people but it's who you are when no one is watching that matter it's a heart condition. So my opinion is I don't think God looks down on it there are parts in the bible that's say we should be connected to the body referring to the church body which is the people fellow believers. But God loves us all just the same and honors what is done in the secret place.. If you really have relationship you know right from wrong.

Of course God loves you just as much. God loves us all the same. Believe it or not I think God loved Bin Laden and Sadam and Hitler just as much too. However (there is always a however) I think God has asked us to do a few things for him that he expects us to do. One is Repent of our sins, do our best not to sin, be baptized, bring others to him, and several other things. I think he seriously expects us to do these things. Who takes over 1000 years to write a book that big if they aren't serious about it.  Also I think a lot of our churches these days get off track. A lot of it has to do with tradition and hypocritical thinking, or that church isn't made for sinners mindset. Church was designed specifically for sinners.

Noah,

  Do you believe in the power of prayer?  My youngest daughter who is 25 had a lump in her neck and the doc examined her and told her it could be cancer and to get a biopsy. My heart sank, the first thing I did was ask God to take the lump away, my mom started a prayer chain and she went back to get the biopsy two week later and nothing was there.  I thank God and all those who lifted my daughters health to the Lord.   I don't think you have to publicly say, " I will pray" most of the time that is to help comfort those who are asking for the prayer request, but to actually say a prayer for is between you and God.

My youngest daughter who is 25 had a lump in her neck and the doc examined her and told her it could be cancer and to get a biopsy. My heart sank, the first thing I did was ask God to take the lump away, my mom started a prayer chain and she went back to get the biopsy two week later and nothing was there.  I thank God and all those who lifted my daughters health to the Lord.   I don't think you have to publicly say, " I will pray" most of the time that is to help comfort those who are asking for the prayer request, but to actually say a prayer for is between you and God.


Amen...100%

This is a loaded subject for sure… and is something that I’ve talked/felt about very strongly with friends a few times. LOL! I will start by saying that the bible was written by man… Of course it is through “God’s vision”, but still interpreted and felt by man. And like it was said before, that pretty much leaves it to be passed on from generation to generation of watered down hearsay. Also, if you were to take a man nowadays, and have him say Jesus or God is speaking to me, and have them write a book and say that God said it… they would probably be considered crazy and be locked up…. Just saying…  So the Good Book, IMO, is probably not what is was meant to be when God passed on the information to man. With that being said, I think that God (or whatever you want to call him/her) exists. I do fear something that is greater than any living being, something bigger than myself, and something that I cannot explain.

My main question for that is… if so many people throughout the history of the planet have believed in something bigger than themselves, whether they called him Alah, Buda, Ja, Ra, God, Christ, Jesus, Jehovah, ect… and they did so, some at the same time, without talking to each other about it, or having a book, or news or ect, and being on completely different sides of the globe… would they be considered wrong according to devout Christians or other beliefs? Are they going to hell because they do not believe in God or Jesus? That is something that I do not like about organized religion! The fact and thought of, “you don’t believe in God (or what I believe in)”, is insulting… What if His name isn’t God? What if He doesn’t have a name because it’s already taken by some other religion? I’m not saying that is the way it is for me, but is something that I question.  Are they wrong about who/what they believe in?

I am a God fearing man, but to have to put a name on it, I would not… I talk to the man upstairs on my own time, and I ask for forgiveness, I know wrong from right, and try to live life the best that I can. From what I’ve experienced, this is what life is about and why it was given to us as a gift. To be here on this Earth, and to be the best person you can be, helping others and yourself, becoming a better person through your own experiences is MY meaning of life. To help the people that cannot help themselves and not expecting anything in return shows there is something bigger than you at hand. I take to time to pray for myself and others, and that doesn’t mean that I’m sitting at a church doing it… but does that mean that it is not heard? I do not think so… Does that mean I’m lesser of a person for it, or not as much a believer or as “loved” as the next person? I do not think so because who is to judge such a thing. I go over this a little more than I honestly would like to because of what I’ve seen in my short 27 years… I do know that I am here for a reason and that this life is a gift; but for me to say that I know who and what put me here (other than my parents) and why I am here would be a lie. This is why I just keep being myself, and give thanks where it’s due, and other than that, I’m just here! ;D

Sorry for the long winded reply…

I'm learning the Good News of God. More and more each day, God wants us to respond to Him through a conversation about this life we are facing. He wants us to be in reality about what the Bible teaches of Him. We live in a culture that is constantly changing in many ways. We must not let the Good News of Gods love and grace change and get weaker by the day ----if we do, we will get further from the truth that God wants us to know about His purpose and plan. We constantly want to be friendly and tolerant in this culture we face. It's clear that through media and music alone, generations to come are falling away from blessings that the generation before should be teaching and passing down. Now I say, if you are an adult, show the truth of Gods love to the younger generations-live what you believe- just do your homework to believe what the bible teaches is true, that way you are living what is true.

Jimco, i know the question was not directed at me but i thought I would share this tidbit (a large reason of why my beliefs are what they are)

My mothers side of the family are devout catholics to say the least(grandparents attend mass daily and are very involved in the church). My family attends church 90% of the time on saturday evenings and goes to dinner afterwards, one particular evening after mass we went to eat with my gparents and roughly 10-15 other members if the church. As conversation began one of the members made a remark i will never forget,  " did you see what Mrs. X was wearing, you think she would take more than a minute to get dressed before mass", this was followed by more snide and rude comments by others. The woman they were referring to was someone I hold very close to my heart, she is a true saint....she has 12 children(most i am good friends with) and works her tail off daylight to dark 6-7 days a week just to keep the lights on, she has more or less fostered other "troubled" youth her entire life, (including myself in a rough patch of my life) never turning a childs friend in need away. To say they are below the poverty line is an understatement. The belitteling comments continued and angered me to the point that i snapped in front of every single one of em, by the time i left they each knew exactly what I thought about their "catholic" holier than thou ways and how big of hypocrits i thought each and everyone of them were. My own grandfather called later that evening in tears apologizing for their words......that day was the last time I attended their version of "church"..........stills blows my mind to this day that these people  consider themselves in higher regard than others who are less fortunate due to their looks!

Sorry i'll get off my soapbox, that incident was over 2 years ago and still frustrates me, after that i decided that my  "church" would be where i personally felt closest to my Lord, not in some fancy building surrounded by people whom i did not care for.


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

Noah this something I do agree with you on I dont always agree with you but you do have some interesting and insightful post keepim comin

People ask for other to help them pray about a situation because God asks us to. Absolutly nothing wrong with that. Yes, God does have a will but prayer does make a huge difference even though not everything turns out how we expect it to. Being drug to church isn't the end of the world either. You need to go and learn from others and just like going to school, work, or exercising, no one wants to do it. Iron sharpens iron. Just remember that it's not about how much time you spend in church or in the woods thinking about God. All that's going to make a difference is your relationship with God. Don't ever compare you life to another persons because even if someone looks like they have it all together, they may have no relationship with God or they may have a great relationship with Him and they're life may be rough. It's not about being religious at all. God actually told us not to have a religious spirit. If that had been a person saying that for their own good they would encourage us to have a religious spirit.

This is something I hear about alot when it comes to church. .......This person from church offended me....I'm quitting church....This church didn't visit xxxx in the hospital....I quit church..........This church member gossiped about me......I quit church. I hear it having to do with church more often than with any other topic.

It doesn't make sense to me. When another hog hunter hunts unethically or bad mouths your dogs do you quit hog hunting? Of course not. That is ridiculous. There are bad apples in every bunch. The church is full of them just like hog hunting. Sometimes a whole congregation may have even lost their way.  I'm certainly not condoning their actions but you have to be confident enough in yourself and your relationship with God to overlook them. If you aren't happy with someone in your congregation then call them out , ignore them or seek out another one that will build you up instead of tear you down. There have been several guys on this thread say 'I used to go to church but xxxxx happened and now I quit.'  I bet most of you same guys will back me up if I tell another new member on here they have to have thick skin if they are to last on this forum. The devil is one sneaky son of a gun and what better way to get you out than to attack you from within. We have several where I attend that like to wonder into other peoples business and insert their worthless opinions. They are easy to spot and I just ignore them. I just laugh most of the time.

I'm getting a little soapboxy too. haha

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think Justin is wondering why in a "only God can judge environment" do people insist on passing judgement? What makes them so Hollier Than Thou? IMO, this goes hand-n-hand with most churches that I've been to... which is why I choose to talk to God and pray and be closer to him on my own time... Correct me if I'm wrong Justin, but I would have to agree with you. What's to learn from someone who needs to pay attention theirselves...? Well, other than to not do what they are doing... LOL! If your relationship with the Lord is sound, and you are comfortable not going to church, what's the difference so long as you have a relationship with the Lord...?

I my opion the problem with people at church is they read the words but dont git what its tryin to tellem.Just readin the instructions on the box dont git the job done you got to follow them

I guess if you have done what the Bible says and you are a more christian person alone than you are with a church family then by all means go it alone, that is every mans personal decision, but how many can honestly say they sin less and are closer to God now that they don't attend church? I think most just don't get called out for it as much. My brother for example used the whole hypocrits or holier than thou arguement and now doesn't attend church. My other brother also doesn't attend and hasn't for years (not sure of the reason. I was little at the time). Both will tell you they believe in God but I can tell you from observation they don't live their lives as stronger christians than when they were attending church. I don't know how God will judge them but I do think they would be better off in church. Again, church aint perfect but we are all on the same path. I have problems just like you do. I need you to help me just like you need me to help you.


[24] And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
 

Judge not lest you be judged

You know how you read something once and hear one thing and read it again and hear something else? I think I answered the first part already but as far as other church goers....unfortunately I think a lot would think less of you but a lot wouldn't. Depends on the church goer. As far as my opinion.....I think you have the right idea but are a little misguided. Religion to an extent is a mind set..a way of living and thinking but there are also a lot of direct guidelines. I don't know you guys well at all. Just what you post on here and honestly other than Noah (because he post very unique topics) I can't single out a single comment off the top of my head that you or Justin have posted. I don't think you can pick and chose what part of religion you want to practice and ignore the rest. Its a package deal.

I have always believed in god!  A few years ago when I started going to church on a regular basis, I have gotten closer to God!  I think attending church is like a tune up, we need it to stay strong in Christ!  As a christian it is our duty to share the strength of God with others!   Maby it's in the woods, maby  some of us are good public speakers, it doesn't matter, just share the word!  I do believe most that do believe in God were dragged to church as kids, and as we lost our way in life, we went back to how we were raised and asked God for help!   The single most important thing we can do is to show our children our relationship with God, and hope one day they will follow him....more than likely if my parents hadn't dragged me to church as a kid I would have still never made a shadow in the door of the church!!!    So a big thank you to my parents..... There are deff people that are only Christians on Sunday... So be it, I cannot worry about there relationship, for I am a sinner and have no room to judge others!    God helps me every day, it may not be when or how I want...but his plan is In his time!  As I plant my crop God will help it grow!

Man... I really did not want to get into this discussion again, but oh well... guess I asked for it haha  rolleyes ;D

As I have matured as a human being(still an evolving process  ;D), I have come to the understanding that the more I learn... the less it seems I really know.

A fundamental issue I have with most all religions is the fact that EVERYBODY thinks they are right... and EVERYBODY else is wrong...  this human desire to claim "ownership" on a concept of understanding of a higher being is, quite simply, a tool for men to control men.

Religion is man's feable attempt to explain, CONTROL, that which is not his to do so.  Since the beginning of a thinking man, we have record of our ingrained genetic desire to label something that we've come to call "religion".  I will not go into the pre-Abrahamic religions now, but as for what most of us now recognize... Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all based on the same idea.

... allow me to say this again.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are ALL BASED ON THE SAME IDEA.

... allow me to break this down for some of you even further... 

IF YOU HAD BEEN BORN IN IRAN YOU WOULD VERY LIKELY BE A MUSLIM NOW AND THEREBY HATE CHRISTIANS YOU DUMMY.(Yes I am talking to you)

BUT... You were born HERE, in America.... so you are smug in the fact that YOU are "protected" in your beliefs, and will have "everlasting life", as for the rest of BILLIONS of "non-believers" accross the world... "GOD" will send them to hell to burn in eternal damnation because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour...

... Yep.... that makes complete sense....   

Matthew 18:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I believe that when more people pray for a given cause... the better the outcome...

"wherever there are two or more gathered, I am there." This is only my opinion, but the theory of church is for fellowshiping ( not sure that is a word lol). I too was raised for most of my younger years by my grandpa, who was a pastor. He was one of those country preachers that could lift you up so high with a sermon that you would have to look down to see heaven. If the doors were open I was there. At the age of about 13 I became disenchanted with the church that I had attended for all those years, when like it was mentioned previously, I saw the people that had been out the night before drinking it up and cheating on their spouses. These same people were the ones that were sitting in the front pews saying amen and hallelujah the loudest. Not wanting to give  up attending church altogether, I attended several (14 to be exact, that is how many we had in our town) and continued to be left wanting. I decided to talk to the one that I felt wouldn't give me the answer, but who would help guide me to where I could find my own answers, my grandpa. By this time he had long since left the pulpit, was a little hard of hearing, unable to perform the duties as a deacon but was still as much in love with his Lord and Savior as the day he began his journey. After listening to me ramble on and on, he asked me a question. He asked me "Why do you attend services?" I thought he had lost his mind, but I answered him as best I could because I knew he never asked a question lightly. I told him I attended to feel closer to and worship the Lord. He just shook his head and said "Baby you don't have to attend an organized service to do that." Now I really thought that he had started to slip. I asked him "Well, why did you feel the need to minister?" He said shoot thats easy, I wanted to bring the word to those that may not know Him. Your granny always said that I could talk the horns off a billygoat, so I thought as long as I like to talk I might as well talk about something that I felt strongly about and the rest is history. He said when he started out he didn't do his worshiping in the church all the time. There were stretches that he never set foot in a church, but he still worshipped. It could have been when he was plowing a field, hunting, walking or driving down the road, etc. He told me "Baby the Lord doesn't care where it is that you worship Him, as long as you take the time and do it with love in your heart." I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, just felt the need to share.

So none of you pastoral delegates wanna play I guess?

I didn't come to argue religion. I just intended to say my first little piece about prayer and then the questions and soapboxes came out. Lol. These type threads never seem to come to any solutions or anybody switching sides so I'm backing out while we all still like each other.  I leave you with one final thought.  Roll Tide!!!

Roll Tide.....BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!  Lol

HOOK EM!!!


"the sun is shining somewhere in texas" -Jason Boland

Noah what is it your wanting to play?  I dont understand your post from the start, this was orginally about not praying when people ask for prayer request.  Now it has evolved to you stating that Americans are smug in there belief of God and what his word says?  and his word does say there is but one way to heaven John 14:6 Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me.  That makes perfect sense.  God is soveriegn and his word is absolute.

You said you believe in God for your own reasons.  There is not but one God and im not sure you where your getting your information.  Please use scripture to support your statements so we know what you are saying is the truth.  Im not hear to argue or sway anyone from one direction to the other but I will say again if your going to speak on what Gods word says give us scripture so we can check this out and make sure it lines up with Gods word.

Noah something is wrong when I understand what your saying!!!!!!  When you are born a different belief then you think your way is the right way are we praying to the right god? Are we Christians cause our parents guided us into being a Christian ? Why yes it is. Is it the American way to be a Christian yes it is. But the Muslims judge us as we are in the wrong. Do we really study there beliefs or any other beliefs. 
I tell my kids to only believe stuff they see. Don't believe what people tell you. My kids are in a Christian private school. Cattle my 6 year old ask me dad how do I know God is real I cant see him. Im like holy chit how do i answer this . So I say faith my son faith.
Then the 6 year old said so if I have faith that means that sasqauch is real? Holy chit again. Thats when I said you going to have to talk to someone more educated than me.
So if i raised my kids to believe that a sasqauch was God then you would have a hell of a time convincing them different .
Sorry to ramble but Noah im on the same page with a open mind.

just saying, i see quotes on this board that are saying you dont have to go to church to be saved or talk to God and that is correct you will not find anywhere in the bible that says you have to go to church to be saved.  So if you dont go to church who is your spiritual leader, who is your accountability with who do you fellowship with.  Do we just pick and choose what part of Gods word we want to live by or do we take it for what it actually says.  why would you just want to take what someone says for truth without searching and finding out what the truth is when all you have to do is open up the word of God and see for your self?   

I will say this and think about it.  Everyone wants a savior but not everyone wants a Lord!  To have a Lord in your life means you have to submit to him.  how many of us that say we are believers and submit to what Gods word says and live by it.

Romans 1:18-25
everyone will be without excuse

James 2:14-19
faith without works is dead

Matthew 7:21-23
do you really know him?

Not going to try to argue being a Christian as I am a Christian. But im open minded about things. I bet every Christian on this board was raised Christian. There parents and grandparents were Christian. Columbus was Christian. There's a pattern there. Now the guy down the road that owns the store that is Muslim is a great guy I talk to him all the time. He is from Iraq. You will not turn him into a Christian I will a sure you. Sorry!!!!  Im not to close minded to look at the world through a clear pair of glasses. If you live in America and you were not raised Christian or no belief when your down in the dumps and have nothing and needing something the odds of a Christian taken you in and introducing you to God is way better than a Muslim taken you to there God.

I see no productivity in debating religion.  Each of us have our own views and are unlikely to be change.  Each of us chooses what works for us. 

Back in high school there was a group of about 10-12 of us that always sat together at lunch. We had two topics that were not discussed,  religion and abortion.     It served us well to let people have their own beliefs without feeling the need to justify them to anyone else.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that this is a debate... more of a sharing of personal views and beliefs... Like I said in my post... is everyone else wrong and going to go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus Christ the Lord our savior? I do not think so... for so many people around the world to believe in some higher power for a lot longer than the bible (10 - 30,000 + years) has been around says something to me... that no matter what you believe, there has been one constant wave of thought throughout the years, long before the bible was written, and that is there is a higher power... Who says that everyone else B.C. is wrong and is in hell? Who is to say that everyone else that has a different religion is wrong and is not going to have everlasting life? That is why I do not like organized religion. There is no way all the people around the entire globe are wrong in their "faith"...  to me that means there really is a higher conciseness.

Dictionary.com  --  defines it as a discussion of opposing viewpoints.  So if that is not what this has evolved to, it is close.  Many on here are christian.  I am an athiest.  I think any discussion of religion, god, the bible, etc. will be a discussion of opposing viewpoints.  And in my experience, it devolves into argument, offense, being offended, adamacy, etc. and if just unproductive.  It is not that I can't defend my views.  That is easy.  I could dissect the weaknesses in many of the posts, but I'm not sure I can do it without offending others though.

Maybe you have more skills and restraint than me.  Just not a road I care to travel  ...  unless provoked.  :)

I will agree to disagree... and that is a debate... LOL! I just think that there isn't anyone trying to prove the others' points wrong, which IMO would not make it a debate but more of a discussion. JMO take it or leave it. I like talking about others' views of what is what and why. I like hearing people that are "in the know" about a subject give their own opinions... and I would like to think that most (saying it very loosly) of us on this site can do so without debating religion or arguing about something that noone really knows about first hand. That is my main problem with the bible and "faith"... I was not there when Jesus was hung from the cross... nor were anyone of us. So to say that they, without a doubt, believe in something is solely based on faith and belief. I thnk this is a great topic... IMO and am thankful that some people on this board are open minded enough to have their own beliefs but yet be able to discuss others' beliefs as well... Good post Noah!!!

By anything I have said I have not said that I do not believe in God... But I question that everything that we have ever been told about it is true. Mainly because of the "pass it on" game... I also find it hard to believe, as Noah and I both have said, that everyone else (non-christian folk) is wrong, and Christianity is the only right way, or its hell for you... That just doesn't sound like an All Loving God to me.... For Someone (God) to create everything that exists, and have lets just say, half the world not be on the same page and not be a Christian (meaning they are going to hell) just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If someone can explain how that works, by all means I am all ears (eyes in this case)...

and sorry Noah, but I can't help myself but to butt in here on this sub...  ;D  ;)

2 Timothy 3:16-17

"All Scripture is God Breathed and is useful for teaching,rebuking,correcting,and training in righteousness,so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for good work."

Proverbs 15 :26

" The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord,but the words of the pure are pleasant."

Revelation 1:3

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy,and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near."

Romans 14:11

"For it is written,As I live,says the Lord(Jesus),every knee shall bow to me,and every tongue shall confess to God."

12." So then everyone of us shall give account of himself to God."

Having faith means you believe regardless.  Not you believe what makes sense or what you can explain. "Saved by grace through faith."

I am not saying any of you are wrong.  It is a fact that my own daughter is in a christian school.  I believe the aspiration to know God and walk with him is a good base for development of character, regardless of what moral/God focused religion you choose.  At the same time however, I also teach my daughter that there are many other faiths that also focus on the same God.  I will raise my daughter to be tolerant, understanding, and open minded enough to realize that "our way" is not the only way... I have not, nor will I ever tell her what to believe.  That is for her to understand in her own life.

SO.  Why is it important to discuss our differences on religious beliefs?  I will tell you after I eat dinner haha  ;) ;D

 I BELEIVE IN GOD .

THEREFORE I BELEIVE IN THE BIBLE , AND JESUS AS MY ONE AND ONLY SAVIOR .

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT ALL ............................   BUT I WILL SOMEDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I HOPE TOO SEE EVERYBODY THEN  :angel:

I am a old man [78] love this thread [I am a believer]  love to see young men disgusting this subject.

So why is it important to talk to people that believe something different than you?


... a list of wars resulting from an inability to understand/respect another's religious views...

     -The "Thirty Year's War"(1618-1648): Between the Protestants and Catholics... as many as 11,500,000 people killed.

     -The "French War of Religion"(1562-1598): Protestants vs. Catholics again... as many as 4 million killed.

     -The "Second Sudanese War"(1983-2005): Islam vs. Christian... as many as 2 million killed.

     -The "Crusades"(1095-1291): Islam vs. Christian... as many as 3 million killed.

     -The "American War on Terror"(early 21st century): once again... has pitted Islam against Christianity... death toll? still counting...

... and this is just the tip of the iceberg...


A brief note on human Sociology(the scientific study of how societies work/interact)... I present to you a concept of "us" verses "them".   It is a fact that when people communicate, personally interact with each other, that some sense of "us" develops...  by simply meeting/shaking hands with a person an individual can thereby associate with that person and this begets empathy... a VERY good quality in humans...

... WITHOUT associative empathy, humans tend to classify unknown people as "them".... "them" is a very dangerous people to be.... "them" does not have a face.... "they" are not missed when they are gone... "they" can be killed without emotion, because they are not one of "us"....

... when a people can push a button and send a missle across an ocean to obliterate a whole city... without ever having to see the faces of the families as they suffered and died... this is an example of "us vs. them"...  an emotional disconnect because of lack of socialization...

I am not finished, but I must take a break












 

excellent post my friend...  :o :)

Noah, it seems someone has read The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Emotion.

   

Never heard of it, love to hear your thoughts on it though

CHURCH IS TO A RELATIONATIONSHIP WITH GOD LIKE COMPETITION HUNTING IS TO HUNTING. A GROUP OF MEN IS GOING TO STRIP IT TO THE BONE, MAKE A FEW BUCKS AND GET IN THE WAY OF WHAT SHOULD REALLY BE HAPPENING.

Just googled that book, looks interesting... I'm not much of a reader to tell you the truth... I'd rather do the writing lol...  but I may have to make an exception if you say it's worth reading

Worth the read.

I DONT GO TO CHURCH, DONT THINK ID REFER TO MYSELF AS A CHRISTIAN BUT I THINK I KNOW GOD. IVE SAT IN A CHURCH 1000'S OF HOURS IN MY LIFE BUT I DONT THINK I EVER CONNECTED THERE, SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE AND NOISE AND UNCOMFORTABLE. REMEMBER WHEN JESUS THREW THE PEDDLERS OUT OF THE TEMPLE. AN WHEN HE TOLD THE DESCIPLES TO FOLLOW HIM AND BRING NOTHING? THERE ARE STILL SOME COUNTRY PREACHERS THAT HAVE DAY JOBS AND FOLLOW JESUS WITH NOTHING, BUT THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT WITH HARLEYS, BASS BOATS AND HUMMERS ON A PREACHERS SALARY. I SEE IT ALL THE TIME IN MY WORK AND IT MAKES ME SICK.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r219/BONEDIGGERKENNELS/1-1-2010/other%20stuff/jesus_on_a_trampoline.jpg)

X2

I think the biggest disagreement I have with most of this thread is with commitment issues. Just like a guy with commitment issues with marraige. He wants all the benefits of marraige (sex and companionship) without the legalities and inconveniences and long term commitment of marraige but until you commit say I do you aren't actually married. People want the benefits of Heaven and God but they don't want to be tied down to the rules of religion(I mean the Bible, not the traditional rules many churches have added along the way). They want God on their terms. Pray when they need a pick-me-up but the rest of the time do want I want when I want. When I wanted a college degree I had to go to class and do all my work. Yeah I skipped and slacked from time to time but overall I had to try hard to finish the course. I couldn't show up when it was convenint to me. Same with God.

As for the question on what about the rest of the world???? Thats a tough one and I don't really know the answer. I do know at one point the Gospel was spread to the entire 'known world' which was much smaller back then. Since then it has been lost in many places so I don't know but lucky for me I don't have to have all the answers. I'll let God take care of it.

As far as athiesm......I think a higher power makes much more sense than a bunch of nothing blew up and created the universe and galaxys in perfect orbit and then a bunch of random protiens came together and BAM!! Life!!! Then that single living cell without any genetic reason started splitting and reproducing. My question for that has always been...Life here survives off of organic matter (dead things). How did the first cells survive on when there wasn't organic matter but that is for another thread. haha

Ooops just meant to highlight top paragraph!

We used to have an "edit" option.  That really helped on spelling errors and oooops posts.  Probably eliminated due to abuse though.

I did the same thing for my post before last.

Not bashing on you or anyone, just building on your statements and adding my own...

I on the other hand view it differently. I am a believer and webster tells us that is all it takes to be a christian. I say no! I do not go to church even though there was a time that I was on fire for him and his word, got saved in my front yard on march 12 1996 during a "yardball" game by my neighbor who was a paster, baptised along with my mom and 2 brothers on Sept. 17 2002 at Riverside Baptist church ... Man that was one good revival. One night his sermon lead my mom and dad to throw out every bit of alcohol in the house and unplug every form of entertainment for days and days. I choose not to go to church because of conflicts with in me. I still pray, not for personal gain and personal problems but for family and those that need prayer. If I dont have the relationship I want with him what gives me the right to go to him with my struggles other than my struggles trying to resemble him. I also thank him daily for my blessings. To myself I am a believer and that is it. To me a christian is someone who is closer to him that just believing. He walks the walk, talks the talk, spreads the word but not in a boastful matter. I do not go to church because I have things that I feel are wrong with me that I need to fix before I go. I choose not to go to be just another hypocrite. To me I cant walk the walk good enough to put it on display at church. I dont want to be a luke warm christian, and be greeted at the gate with him telling me "you barely made it but welcome" I dont live that way. I am either 100% or I dont do it. So until I get my life in order and my personal conflicts, I have chosen not to be a hypocrite and chase something that I know I cannot be live up to right now. I know that is not the way to live because we are all sinners and being in church doesnt change that but I have been dealing with this for a couple years. I just dont want to fall into the hypocritical christian group. When I am ready, he will be there with open arms and it is then that I will submit again and be on fire for him.

Another personal conflict I have is that all 3 of my children were dedicated by 1yr old... Meaning that I vowed to raise them up in a Christian home and teach them "the way". My wife and I read the bible to them every night before bed. It is what I vowed to do infront of the church and my savior. The conflict is what gives me the right to share the teachings with them if I do not show them through actions. Yes I am a good guy, ask anyone that knows me, but I believe in my heart that I am failing my children and my savior for not living up to my promise. I do all that I feel I can do in this stage of my life with my kids, but I fell like I am doing it with an empty heart. The more I read to them the more I grow and the more I grow the more the bad habbits slip away. Church doesnt save you, and being a believer doesnt make you a christian in my book. To me it is sticking to what you asked him when you invited him to live inside of you and when you promised to live through him. It is walking the walk when noone, and everyone is watching. It is knowing your wrong doings and turning from them. Thanking him for the good before talking about the bad... Until you have done that and continue to do that you are no more than a believer to me. It is a daily struggle and a daily walk, he is there when you need him but if you only go when you need him you are no different than the hypocrites you despise.


Sorry if I rambled or contradicted my self in any way... Just alot of mixed emotions coming out. It is hard for me to admit failure and I have failed my wife and kids by failing in my faith.

Just my opinion but if you are working to become what you want to be then there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed or ashamed to be in church. Being a hypocrit is claiming to be what you are not or better than you are. You seem to admit exactly what/where you are but are ashamed that you are not where you want to be. That is different. We all start somewhere. Some start from a tougher situation than others. You might consider studying with someone in person to try and untangle your thoughts.

Makes alot of sense thanks.

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Together in the Christian Life
 
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Watch Together in the Christian Life video.

 
Charles F. Stanley
 
Memory Verse: Hebrews 10:19-25
 
I. Introduction: Hebrews 10:24-25 says, “Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another” (emphasis added). It’s true that some people can’t attend church due to physical limitations and others have no Bible-believing congregations in their area. But aside from those exceptions, everyone who wants to maintain a vital, growing relationship with Jesus Christ needs to be involved in a local body of believers.
 
II. Who originated the concept of church?
 
A. Scripture clearly teaches that the church was established by our Savior Himself (Matt. 16:16). He’s the Savior of the world, humanity’s only hope. This truth is the foundation upon which Jesus established the church, and no evil force can prevail against it.
 
B. Throughout history, all kinds of movements have come and gone. In contrast, the church—also called the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27)—has thrived for centuries and in our generation is growing quickly all over the world.
 
C. Why has the church survived despite changing times? Because it belongs to God, not to men and women. Jesus is the originator and sustainer of the church. Today He ministers to both believers and unbelievers through His body.
 
III. When Christians claim they don’t need church, what does that imply?
 
A. If we can walk closely with God without the fellowship of other believers, then assembling on Sunday morning is a waste of time. Those who believe this would say we don’t need other Christians for support, encouragement, or prayer.
 
B. If believers can maintain an intimate relationship with God apart from church involvement, then Jesus made a big mistake. After all, the church was His idea.
 
C. Of course, our Lord didn’t make a mistake when He established His church. You and I need other believers, whom God commands us to love as ourselves—a mandate second only to loving Him whole-heartedly (Matt. 22:37-39). It is in the context of community that we exercise our spiritual gifts, find encouragement to follow God’s will, and learn how to properly interpret Scripture.
 
IV. Why should believers assemble together as a church?
 
A. To worship: Worshipping Him lifts our spirits and strengthens our souls. Many of the songs are full of theological truths that educate us about the blessings we have in Him.
 
B. To learn the Word of God: In church, we often have the opportunity to learn from those with special biblical training or deep spiritual maturity. Be ready to check any teaching against the whole counsel of Scripture, since pulling verses out of context can lead to doctrinal errors.
 
C. To fulfill the Great Commission: As the body of Christ, we can send missionaries to far-off places. We support them through our prayers, letters or e-mails, and financial support. Together we fulfill the command to share the good news with the nations (Matt. 28:18-20).
 
D. To protect themselves: When someone stops attending church, it is almost inevitable that he or she will begin to drift away from God. Hearing scriptural truth each week helps in holding believers accountable to high moral, ethical, and spiritual standards.
 
E. To exercise spiritual gifts: These supernatural blessings, such as administration, organization, and mercy, are to be used “for the common good in the body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:7).
 
F. To develop an atmosphere of support: The New Testament is full of advice on how to relate in love to one another.
 
G. To strengthen and broaden the Christian impact on the world: When believers are committed to a local fellowship, the influence of that church is greatly multiplied. God works powerfully through churches where each person sees himself or herself as making a valuable contribution to the ministry’s work.
 
V. Conclusion: Commitment to a local body of believers is the way to participate in fulfilling God’s purposes. There, you can receive solid instruction in the Word of God, participate in corporate worship, and find opportunities to exercise your spiritual gifts. Find a Bible-believing church in your area, and make an effort to get involved. Your life will never be the same.

Copyright 2012 In Touch Ministries, Inc. All rights reserved. www.intouch.org. In Touch grants permission to print for personal use only.

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Together in the Christian Life
 
Print Page   

Watch Together in the Christian Life video.

 
Charles F. Stanley
 
Memory Verse: Hebrews 10:19-25
 
I. Introduction: Hebrews 10:24-25 says, “Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another” (emphasis added). It’s true that some people can’t attend church due to physical limitations and others have no Bible-believing congregations in their area. But aside from those exceptions, everyone who wants to maintain a vital, growing relationship with Jesus Christ needs to be involved in a local body of believers.
 
II. Who originated the concept of church?
 
A. Scripture clearly teaches that the church was established by our Savior Himself (Matt. 16:16). He’s the Savior of the world, humanity’s only hope. This truth is the foundation upon which Jesus established the church, and no evil force can prevail against it.
 
B. Throughout history, all kinds of movements have come and gone. In contrast, the church—also called the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27)—has thrived for centuries and in our generation is growing quickly all over the world.
 
C. Why has the church survived despite changing times? Because it belongs to God, not to men and women. Jesus is the originator and sustainer of the church. Today He ministers to both believers and unbelievers through His body.
 
III. When Christians claim they don’t need church, what does that imply?
 
A. If we can walk closely with God without the fellowship of other believers, then assembling on Sunday morning is a waste of time. Those who believe this would say we don’t need other Christians for support, encouragement, or prayer.
 
B. If believers can maintain an intimate relationship with God apart from church involvement, then Jesus made a big mistake. After all, the church was His idea.
 
C. Of course, our Lord didn’t make a mistake when He established His church. You and I need other believers, whom God commands us to love as ourselves—a mandate second only to loving Him whole-heartedly (Matt. 22:37-39). It is in the context of community that we exercise our spiritual gifts, find encouragement to follow God’s will, and learn how to properly interpret Scripture.
 
IV. Why should believers assemble together as a church?
 
A. To worship: Worshipping Him lifts our spirits and strengthens our souls. Many of the songs are full of theological truths that educate us about the blessings we have in Him.
 
B. To learn the Word of God: In church, we often have the opportunity to learn from those with special biblical training or deep spiritual maturity. Be ready to check any teaching against the whole counsel of Scripture, since pulling verses out of context can lead to doctrinal errors.
 
C. To fulfill the Great Commission: As the body of Christ, we can send missionaries to far-off places. We support them through our prayers, letters or e-mails, and financial support. Together we fulfill the command to share the good news with the nations (Matt. 28:18-20).
 
D. To protect themselves: When someone stops attending church, it is almost inevitable that he or she will begin to drift away from God. Hearing scriptural truth each week helps in holding believers accountable to high moral, ethical, and spiritual standards.
 
E. To exercise spiritual gifts: These supernatural blessings, such as administration, organization, and mercy, are to be used “for the common good in the body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:7).
 
F. To develop an atmosphere of support: The New Testament is full of advice on how to relate in love to one another.
 
G. To strengthen and broaden the Christian impact on the world: When believers are committed to a local fellowship, the influence of that church is greatly multiplied. God works powerfully through churches where each person sees himself or herself as making a valuable contribution to the ministry’s work.
 
V. Conclusion: Commitment to a local body of believers is the way to participate in fulfilling God’s purposes. There, you can receive solid instruction in the Word of God, participate in corporate worship, and find opportunities to exercise your spiritual gifts. Find a Bible-believing church in your area, and make an effort to get involved. Your life will never be the same.

Copyright 2012 In Touch Ministries, Inc. All rights reserved. www.intouch.org. In Touch grants permission to print for personal use only.

 Print Page

Article Archive
Bible Studies
All Things Are New
Sermon Outlines
Life Principles Notes
God's Promises
Monthly E-Newsletter
30 Life Principles














 About About In Touch
About Dr. Charles Stanley
From the Pastor's Heart
Dr. Stanley's Speaking Engagements
What We Believe
In Touch Foundation
In Touch Ambassadors
In Touch International
In Touch Messenger
Work at In Touch
Press
Permissions
FAQ
Terms of Use


Broadcast This Week on TV
Today on Radio
Sunday Night Church
Find a Station
Ask Dr. Stanley
Podcasts
In Touch Apps
 Today's Moment
Radio Affiliates

Store Account Login
Customer Service
Privacy Policy


Magazine Current Issue
Subscribe Now
Daily Devotional
Letter to the Editor

Community Impact Prayer Team
Request Prayer
Facebook
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Resources 30 Life Principles
All Things Are New
Articles
Life Principles Notes
Bible Studies
Sermon Outlines
God's Promises
Monthly E-Newsletter
Chaplains

Partner Donate
Ways to Partner
Annual Report
In Touch Foundation
Board of Directors



Select a Language






 




































































































































Contact Us
© 2012 In Touch Ministries.
 All rights reserved.
 P.O. Box 7900, Atlanta, GA 30357

1-800-789-1473 toll-free
contactcenter@intouch.org

 





























</body>


</body>

Not sure your copy/paste came through as intentioned friend, please explain