EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I was wondering if anyone has hunted this cross and if so how did they hunt as far as range? Also how good of a strike dog did they make? I am going to make this cross with a treeing walker and a pit and was interested in some info on what to expect. The reason for this cross is I am trying to make me some stop dogs for the runners.Thanks for the advice in advance.

Why not find someone who has a proven cross of pups like you wish and buy one?

You might end up with a dog like you desire, and you might end up with a whole pack of long-range, open on track catchdogs.  More than likely, they will be a complete mix of who knows what.

Are you planning to keep the whole litter to find the dog your looking for, and if not how will you market the rest?

Not trying to be critical of your thinking...just tossing out some food for thought.

Also...I would not personally breed to much hound into anything I wanted to be a stop dog.  I have seen and heard about hounds who would watch a hog that broke bay run off and instead of visually running behind it, they put their noses down and start trying to track again.  WWAAYY to slow to do what your hoping.

Thought about that but the walker I am going to breed is a finished hogdog not trash , and yes I am going to keep the whole litter between me and my buddy. I was just wanting some info from some people that has hunted the cross b4.

   Those hounds that just watch a hog run off and put their nose back to the ground are not hounds, It would be spelt more like this "culls" I have hunted hounds my whole life and if you have a hound doin that it was a mistake in the brood pen and he needed to be culled. Just my twooo cents......

I had a treeing Walker last year that a coon hunting buddy had given me as a pup. He kept saying they were gritty, but he only coon hunted. Well, I got the 7 week old pup and raised him with my curs. He never knew he was a hound.....except he was open on track. He had a BIG bawl mouth and a good cold nose. He hunted like a cur and if he stopped a hog would bay it tight or catch with a cur. And I mean lock on catch......

The hogs down here just run so bad from a  track barking dog that I sold him. He is in Mississippi now and the guy out there loves him.

A hound like that would be what you need for crossing, in my opinion. I would never have gotten rid of him if he didn't bark on track, just didn't suit the way I hunt. I thought about breeding him to one of my curs, but was afraid the pups may be open on track, so didn't.

Good luck with your cross.

Again...not trying to be critrical, but an unproven cross is just that.  Just because a particular dog is a crackerjack in no way means he/she is capable of being a producer.  Two different things completely.


Crossing two particular breeds of dogs doesn't really mean anything.  You never get an exact 1/2 whats good of this dog X 1/2 whats good of the other dog; and quite possibly you could end up with the worst of both.

For example, many people have tried to mimic Krystal's Dogo/AB dogs or Douglas Mason's Catdo's thinking they could simply take two dogs of the same breed and get the same results.  Genetics simply don't work that way.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Bryant,

I agree 100% on the breeding being "iffy" Its hard to get good dogs by breeding two good proven dogs together of the same breed. Start throwing in different sets of gene pools and who knows....

Course, I have seen some birdog/cur crosses that were jam up hog dogs so its possible.

I wish I could cross a hot nosed close hunting dog with a wide ranging cold nosed dog and get medium nosed medium range dogs!! But it doesn't work that way.....LOL

You're exactly right.

If it were as easy as crossing certain breeds, I've got a recipe in my mind mixing about five breeds that could cook up some sure enough show stoppers.  It can be done, but I personally don't have the time, space, or any of the resources to do so.

For those interested, google up the creation of the "Dogo Argentino" breed and you can read about what it takes to cross ten different breeds of dogs to end up with the intended final product.  Not an easy task to say the least.

It is a real iffy cross.  You never know which way the pups are going to go.  I have known them to be from jam up trail dogs to darn near like bulldogs out of the same litter.  They would all put teeth in one though.

Bryant
The hounds you are reffering to are culls.  Dont be too quick to judge a whole type of dog based on a few bad ones. ;)

I read something like this another website. it was a guy trying to mix a dogo with a walker hound for a bear dog. just about everyone told him not to because the bully / hound mix creates a high number of man biters. and told him just to buy a  fila brasileiro.

here is excactly what was said

bad moon
crossing any bull or mastiff breed to bloodhound produces an unusually high percentage of aggressive manbiters. so unless you're hunting escaped cons or bringing back slavery their is nothing useful in such crosses. a number of the most aggressive & dangerous nightkeepers dogs in british history were the welsh bred dogs containing bloodhound. ultimately you'd wind up w/something like the fila brasileiro.

AR Frog (& others)

bulls & mastiffs & crosses of them w/ cur & hound have been used effectively for centuries. as recently as Roosevelt's time pure bulldogs ran w/ big game packs and they actually did CATCH the bears & lions and didn't have anymore significant mortality than pure scenthounds (of course there are allegations the scenthounds of old were more aggressive than today). even today bull blooded grade hounds are run on bear in the southern states. i am pretty sure modern bears & lions aren't anymore capable dog killers than their ancestors.

Never known of a bull/hound to be human agressive.  Have owned and hunted quite a few of them mostly walker/bull or plott/bull.(I am sure as with any breed or cross you will get a bad apple hear and there)

Sounds like a bunch of BS the fellow that wrote that read on the e-net somewhere. ;D
Keeps mentioning bloodhounds also, not the same as a walker.

I like it doehead! My  2 gyps are half walker and 1/4 pit, 1/4 bmc... they have ALOT of hunt in them, gritty!! Coming along great and still only 11 months old

well i been guiding hunters for 35 yrs and have never used anything but a hound____ an open hound--- thats the way i make part of my living!!!! i promise you mine will tree a coon -cat  or catch a hog and kill it if its a 125lbs or less  and yall are right  some hounds only want to trail a animal  but there are hounds that want to catch and when they do they try and kill it  just like it was a coon-cat-or bear-- i can show hundreds of pictures of my hounds  and friends hounds catching big hogs and me tying them up--- i have 3 catch dogs but hardly ever turn them loose!!! dont want to ruffle any feathers but the right hound will catch any hog any time --even if the dog is fully open!!!  they have to have the desire to catch  not just tree, we catch bobcats and coon all the time--i am 56 and thats all i have ever hunted and none are bulldog crossed----JUST THE WAY I DO THINGS--- thanks for listening and any cross will work if the dog wants it to work!!!  adios  good hunting

well i didnt say it was the truth just what i had read.

i know bloodhounds arent the same as walkers, my origanal post was from memory on what i had read awhile ago thats why i went and got the actual statement not to misquote anyone.

it will be a heck of a cross and will probably catch  anyway good luck with the cross

I understand a dog like this would be a cull, and I would never judge a breed based on the actions of a select few.  HOWEVER, I would also never assume that just because a dog is a particular breed or in this case a particular cross that it would no doubt act or hunt a certain way.


You made my exact point, boxr.  And so will the RIGHT dog of any make and model.

My only question would be how good is the male, is he a strike dog and does the pit have any hunt in it.  If the pit won't hunt then you may end up with a few pups that won't hunt. They'll be plenty gritty but if they can't find a hog it means nothing.  I've seen too many people take a great stud strike dog and cross over a female that wasn't a great strike dog and end up with a litter of crap. I  have a male pit right now that will go find his own hog and catch.  If your female hunts and catches then I'd say that would be a great cross. If she doesn't then I wouldn't make the cross.  

Human aggressive dogs?? Hell, ALL of mine are that way.... ;D
I don't think I have a dog on the yard that won't bite a stranger. It doesn't bother me at all. Lots of these Fla dogs are that way , it doesn't prevent them from making good hog dogs.
Course, if you are hunting with me, the dogs are fine. You just can't come in the yard or handle one in the box or truck. Once in the woods anyone can pretty much handle them, so its never been an issue for me.

BoxR, you would have liked the Walker I had. He has Houses Lipper show up 5 times in his pedigree and he would catch a hog less than 100 lbs or so by himself and catch any hog with a  cur dog. Here is a pic of him at 10 months with a hog he trailed up, jumped and bayed by himself. Caught with him and my Monkey dog.

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/crooksfirsthog.jpg)

   I agree with you Boxr I have hunted hounds my whole life and you run in to some just like in any breed that are culls, but I've never had a problem cullin the one's that needed cullin but for the most part and especially now days the way the dogs being bred for the compition hunts they are bred for run to catch traits, and noone can tell me they don't know what to do when they catch up to what ever it may be that you are runnin with them. For most of the hounds I have owned in my life time think they are made of steel and were rough as he//. The strike dog I'm runnin right now is a 13 month old BlueTick x 1/4 cat x 1/4 bulldog with a whole head full of sence and just enough gritt to get er done though half hound and half bulldog will probly be catchy I doubt they will be catching people.......HAHA.

Thanks to all for the replys. I am going to make the cross and already know what can go wrong but wanted to here some positive things about them,like what kind of nose they could have and how rangy they might be. The dogs that I am going to cross are good dogs. The walker catches by his self,semi open on hot trail, goes till he finds the meat. The pit is fearless like any other and has a very good handle on her. I just want something to help him so the races will be a little shorter. So if the pups turn out to be rcd's with a nose I dont see anything wrong myself. That is the reason for the cross. I am not breeding to get bay dogs I want stop dogs with the ability to smell one if the bay breaks.

Lipper was suppose to be an alligator. He was known to throw lots of good dogs but also sired more dogs than any treeing walker in history.

Never thought about it but guess that aggression would make for a good hog dog.

   I like the idea and if your not to far from me I would probably try one if you have enough to sale one.

Just like any other F1 cross..... If you are willing to keep them all (or have help keeping them all), accept that none of the pups will be created equal, pick out the one or two that express your desired mix of traits at maturity, and cull the rest, why not give it a shot?

Don't expect too much, be willing to accept failure, and go for it. :)

I do have to agree though, that your best method of achieving your end result goal is buying a dog or pup from lines proven to express the traits you desire....... Much higher chance of success that way.

Steve

I think it would be worth a try you will never know until you give it a shot. Most of my dog are blueticks or bluetick x cur and they will all catch and hold a hog no matter the size and kill it if its around 150lbs. or smaller. Try the cross if it produces some good dogs then you will know and if not cull them and try something different.

dang it cracker  WHERE IS THAT WALKER  I WANT IT!!!!! and it looks goooood too  thats all i own are hounds except 1 airdale and 4 pits which i hardly ever use because my clients dont want to catch it   ---just bay it and shoot it---take pictures and go home  hahahaha  nothing wrong with that!!!!!  well good luck to you all and stay safe