EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

WHY DO PEOPLE HUNT HELP DOGS ? I UNDERSTAND A RCD, BUT NOT A HELP DOG.I'M NOT BEING AN ***,ITS JUST A QUESTION. 

Maybe because they want more dogs on the hunt and don't have that many good dogs. IDK

TO ME ,THE MORE DOGS ON THE GROUND PUT'S MORE PRESSURE ON A HOG AND THEN YOUR ON A FOOT RACE.IF YOU DON'T HAVE ALL RUF DOGS, AND SOMETIMES THAT DON'T WORK.

i agree with you. I don't like more than 3 bay dogs down at a time

YA AND 4 IS THE MOST, AND CAN BE TO MUCH DOG POWER ON THE GROUND. FOR ONE MAN   

I put 4 baydogs on the ground and a rcd still got a cd on lead. Around here if u got 2 or 3 loose bayin dogs on the ground and bay u aint gunna stop it with lead in cds u got 2 have sum gritt on the ground.help dog might not strike but is at every bay hammered down.   

O OK SO WHY NOT HAVE ALL 5 DOGS RUFF, AND WILL STRIKE AND STOP ONE BY IT'S SELF. YA'LL WILL STRIKE MORE HOGS,AND COVER MORE WOODS, AND IF IT ONLY ONE HOG  IN A 1,000 ACERS. YOUR % OF YOUR DOGS STRIKEN IT GO'S UP.

It is all about the strength of the pack.  I hunt anywhere from 2-4 dogs.  My dogs find and bay; however, this weekend I sure wish I had a couple extra help dogs.  My four dogs could not get a pack of 18 hogs stopped and bayed.  My four dogs tried to bay several times in a pine sapppling thicket and in a big slough, but I just didnt have enough stopping power.  If I had a couple of good help dogs, I could have dumped them out when I saw the hogs cross.  When my dogs finally stopped, they all ran between 8-12 miles and one hads the pads worn off.

If a guy wants help dogs and they work for him that is good enough for me.  Not everybody wants and needs four dogs that will all go seperate ways.  If a helop dog works for a mans pack and he catches hog that is his decision.

A few of the places i hunt have been hunted alot over the years and one dog is not stopping a hog unless it just catches it. By adding alittle grit to the mix more often then not it is either caught or makes the hog stand and fight. All rough dogs works for some but you go through dogs fast and alot of staple guns LOL. I have found i can strike just as many hogs with 2 dogs on the ground as an entire group of strike dogs. more often than not a group of strike dogs will break off and do their own thing and i want them to work as a team each dog has a reason it is in my pack. Help dogs are used to fill a void in someone pack that is lacking that maybe all they do good but it completes the pack

I've always said that too many " strike dogs" on the ground leads to broken bays or multiple bays that can't be worked. I either like some help dogs or strike dogs that will honor another dogs bay. Problem I find is that the good strike dogs ive had were all independent and wouldn't honor. So some sluffer me too types are handy to have around. Basically it just boils down to hunting style and personal preference.

HEY ' !!!!!! HOG DOWN  QUIT HOLLERIN 

I agree with PLP, most of the time good strike dogs are more independent and won't honor the bays, they want their own hog and usually has dogs and hogs going everywhere with no good results in the end. Got on a nice boar this past weekend and had 4 dogs on the ground and one good pup ended up with two on the boar and three out chasing their own, left the bulldog at the truck because the dogs are rough so we figured it would be a caught hog...wrong if we would have had my little help dog gyp he wouldve been caught or if I would have shot straight he would have been on the ground instead of running after being hit.

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To many variables to answer that question intelligently. What kind of dogs do you run? What's the terrain like? Do the hogs bay or run? Do you lead in or run rcd's? This topic has been covered many times. You tell me you dont have help dogs in your yard I respectfully say your definition of a help dog is different than mine.

i agree Kevin... I have hunted with a few people that have made my best strike dog look like a help dog ;D I am sure some people have felt the same way hunting with me. to me its all about what YOU want to feed and hunt.

Amen brother!

ha ha all my dogs are help dogs  lol they HELP me kill hogs  .

kevin you should have come got that dog i was tryin to give ya . first time out he got on a hog and run it plum out of hearing . i guess them boys didn't want to follow him and their dogs couldn't keep up i guess . i hope he turns up i knew he was gonna go the distance  lol . quit letting your ol -lady tell ya what color dog to get  lmao  j/k . hell call me

+1. I agree.

That HalfBreed is full of Chit than a Christmas Turkey!!!! I LOVE his post.

Lol, halfbreed culls his women faster than he does his dogs!! Call me a liar Robert! Lol

lol been a many through the front door and rite out the back lol if a woman ask my dog to move over so she can sit down ,  she's culled on the spot  !!!   nuttin personal ladies but good dogs is hard to come by   >:D

That's the Halfbreed I know and love!!! Haha

What's your definition of a help dog? As far back as I can remember it hasn't changed any?

I don't have any help dogs in my yard. I expect every one of mine to be able to find and bay a hog. They will honor each other's bay and join in a race... but they won't quit their own hog to do so. If a young dog doesn't make the grade around here, it gets culled.

Sigh....just one question.

Does your yard rotate strike duty? Meaning, do your main hunting dogs have exactly the same amount of strikes under their belt? If you can say yes then you have an amazing line of dogs and I envy you. If you answer no then you have help dogs in your yard.

I'm not talkin bout up and comers. I'm just assuming you have a main strike dog. One that gets the job done over and over. I would also assume you hunt with him at least one dog that is more than 2 years old, maybe two. These dogs have probably struck their own hogs but more often than not its your number one that strikes. That's the nature of a pack. Nothing wrong with it, that's just what happens.

My definition of a help dog is simple. If the dog is not your number one he is a help dog.

And just to clarify... Again, nothing wrong with (my definition) a help dog. Your help dog could be someone else's number one. That's just the way I see it. EVERYONE has help dogs. Lol

Well, I guess your idea of a help dog is different from mine and every other hog hunter I've ever known.

While all my dogs will "help" each other... they are all capable of doing it by themselves.

Most hunters have always considered a help dog one that is sent to a bay or race... a dog with no hunt or finding ability to it.

In other words a cull...

So...this "help" dog responds to barking, goes to a bay and "helps" hold the hog in place or maybe even "helps" catch. This "help" dog is maybe relayed on a runner, a chase. He "helps" when your trying to keep dogs fresh. Yep, sounds like a cull to me.

I also understand all your dogs getting it done on their own. That's perfect and what we all strive for but that being said.... Don't you have a couple that "help" more than they strike?

If you ever wonder if they are just help dogs leave the others at home and see if they can still get it done!  If so then they are not help dogs! 
 So if I read this rite when I take my two older dogs that find hogs on a regular basis, and put another dog with them and he finds hogs faster than they do, you are saying the older two are just help dogs?

It sure does. If it can't start a hog by itself, I have no use for it. A hog dog doesn't need help.

What do you if you have a yard full of help dogs and your find dog, or dogs, are put out of commission?

Sure, there's always gonna be better dogs that out perform the others... but the others can get it done also.

After 1 hunt? No, of course not. I'm saying if you run the same four dogs on every hunt. 1 dog will strike the hogs the majority of the time. If your really lucky you may have a dog come in a close second. Your other two dogs are probably going to have numbers that are ALOT lower. I would consider these two dogs help dogs. Again, doesn't mean they are bad dogs, culls. Just means they primarily fall into a help or support roll. Heck, put these dogs in someone else's pack and they may become the number one.

I just don't differentiate between the type of dog mentioned above and a three year old that has never struck his/her own hog but is there at every bay. That's just me.

It sure does. If it can't start a hog by itself, I have no use for it. A hog dog doesn't need help.

What do you if you have a yard full of help dogs and your find dog, or dogs, are put out of commission?
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Puts a add on dog trade (lost strike doge last nite need one by tomorrow no bs & I'm not going to pay over $400 for one!   I no what a good is & what they are worth!)    3 days later another add (bought a strike dog yesterday took him home & he won't bay in a pen)   Lol

No one strives for a yard full of help dogs. Come on man. You work with what you have until you get that perfect line. Im kind of bored with the subject now so I'll just say this....
I will always have "help" dogs in my yard. If you were honest with yourself you would say the same. The thing about it is, if you do your job (breeding wise) the quality of your "help" dogs goes up after every breeding.

Where I Hunt one dog can't stop a hog and they are mighty fine dogs if 2 can do it

I also like a help dog because if they are all strike dogs then they will spread out and go different ways and will take longer to get to each other Myself I like to keep 5 dogs on the ground

What is the help dog doing that the strike dog is not??

How is more dogs stopping the hog where the one isn't??

More dogs doesn't mean more hogs stopped.

It doesn't take a awesome dog to get it done by itself, just a HOG DOG!

well thats how i see it to. we hunt places thats been hunted over 100 years,and we get more hogs with 3 or 4 dogs that each are on its own hog. if it's not the dog will go to another with the dog thats bayed, but the dogs that didn,t find the hog is not at our feet waiting for 1 dog to do all the work. thats a no, no around this camp. if its bayed with 1 dog y send 4 more thats what makes a hog run,and if a hog wants to run its going to. you just have to have a dog that will stay in the race.

All of ours are runners and I have never seen a dog that can stop our pigs by itself

And a help dog is there quick while another strike dog is still out looking for it's own hog

Do you think the dogs are actually stopping the hog or the hog is just tired of running?

It sounds like one dog doesn't have enough bottom by theirself, alot of times one dog will push another dog to take it further if they don't have alot of bottom.  Once again though if the dogs a hog dog, it should take one!

I probably hunt different country then you do though.

Well we had a few dogs run them 10 or 12 miles before and darn good dogs and still couldn't get them stopped that's  when we started putting more dogs on the ground and we starting stopping them within 2 or 3 miles but yeah it's all different in different terrain

At the most I run 3 dogs at once .. more then that its hell on me. Help dogs to me r the ones that didn't strike it just responded and help that time lol maybe different ones evert time

Well hogdown I agree and disagree with you. First I will disagree. Why do you care how someone else hunts? I figure I don't want them telling me so I don't tell them. If you are catching pigs and are happy then keep doing it that way. Now I will agree. When I hear the term help dog I think cull. If I am feeding a dog I expect them to either find and bay a pig with no help or catch a pig. If does not fill one of those two jobs then I don't want it. I will run one bay dog sometimes. But I like two bay dogs on the ground and two catch dogs. But like I said that is me. If you want help dogs knock yourself out and I won't even talk any smack about it.

I guess I got a pen full of help dogs cause they help me find hogs

well dub i agree and disagree with you also. first i disagree. i'm not telling anyone how to hunt. i said that is how (key words) I look at it. then i agree with you. i will keep doing it the way i do. thanks and have a nice day

I guess I'm a HELP DOG!

I gotta help my sorry dogs find hogs and my ol lady calls me a dog alot!

my ole lady says I help the dogs more than i do her

Ill tell you what you bring your best dog just one that doesnt need any help and lets see if he can stop and catch the hogs in my place without help LOL I have had 5 people off this site come try because i thought it was my dogs but i guess that means me andand the other 5 have culls

Where's your place at outlaw?

I never said y'all had culls either... I said a help dog, with no hunting or finding abilities, is a cull to me.

Dang Mike!! You are gonna be busy with all these offers and chit!!  ;D

I guess I better get my pups in shape from their summer vacation and tell them to act like hog dogs.

Waterwood parkway in oakhurst tx. 12,500 acres of track stars. No not directly but you did say that if it can find stop and bay its own alone it is a cull so my dogs cant stop them alone except my RCD that makes them culls in your book doesnt it  ;D. I know they arent culls because i take them other places and find hogs all the time Caught 3 in livingston in 4 hrs with a buddy. They just dont stop running at my place and i have never seen 1 dog alone able to stop and bring to bay long enough to get a catch dog to them unless they are like my Cat male and just catch it alone. Thats what i was saying