EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

HOG DOG TOURNAMENT TRAIL - 2013

Only THE BEST need apply.

Find out more at www.hogdogtournamenttrail.com

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What's the reasoning behind the no barr hog rule?

I believe most, if not all, of the participating contests allow barrs to be weighed in.

I also believe that by having this new rule, you'll be loosing a ton of support/participation.

You say only the Best need apply, do the best only catch boars and sows?

Well, no, you're right BigE, I catch alot of shoats too.  :laugh:

Kidding!!

Long as some of y'all keep doing how well you been doing, the rest of us need a juniors division!! I got me a hat with a propeller on it and I'm ready to hit the woods.  ;)



 didnt notice that Mike, but thanks for pointing it out. I know where some real gnarly boars are right now, hoping they'll make it to spring.  ;)

Josh, go ahead and order me a Coleman cooler and a buckle that says either "oh well, maybe next year" or " honorable mention "  ;)

They look great By the way!

Disappointing to see the NO Barrs .. say we have another hunt like last year and catch 4 Barrs between 250 & 400 #'s. Most people myself consider that the hunt of a lifetime for a hog hunter. To y'all it's just an asterisk*. Guess we weren't hog hunters that day. Just seems the competition is now biased and you arnt really looking for "The BEST"

By any definition of the word, a Barr hog is a "Pre-caught hog".  Tournaments that do not allow barrs are conducted on a basis of straight-up competition. 

Not to say that Barr hogs don't have a place in tournaments.  Because they do.  Just in a category by themselves.

If you don't participate in a tournament because you don't feel like you can win if barrs aren't allowed, then feel free to hunt in a Barr allowed stringer tournament. 

If you don't participate in a tournament because you don't feel like you can win because barrs are allowed, then hunt the HDTT.

Put these 2 groups of hunters in a pile and see which fills up first.

Only 1 of the 5 participating tournaments allow barrs in the stringer.  The other tournaments have side pots for barrs.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

That's right.  The best still win regardless if barrs are allowed or not.

If you don't enter the trail because barrs aren't allowed....

Well that just means you can't win without them.

You are correct good sir! We won it last year without any Barrs :) we can win it again. It's just good to get feedback from participants and gripe about something. In no way are we taking these rule changes personal. Just voicing our opinion from the hog hunters who still "work" the hogs. Josh runs an outstanding competition. The buckles are SWEET! I never wear buckles but I will wear this one around :)

You say only the Best need apply, do the best only catch boars and sows?

If you don't enter the trail because barrs aren't allowed....

Well that just means you can't win without them.
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I had to gripe, because I think if the tournament allows barrs then the trail should honor that tournaments rules, or pick a different tournament to include in the trail. As in the case of the Splendora tournament last year we would have had to haul separate hogs to turn in for the trail.

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You are correct good sir! We won it last year without any Barrs :) we can win it again. It's just good to get feedback from participants and gripe about something. In no way are we taking these rule changes personal. Just voicing our opinion from the hog hunters who still "work" the hogs. Josh runs an outstanding competition. The buckles are SWEET! I never wear buckles but I will wear this one around :)
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Well heck Tony, since you don't wear buckles anyway, why don't you just sit this year out and I'll come add some pale yella and red to the team. Lol  ;)

When you get a belly like mine the buckle is more a tool than a fashion. Hahaha

I am not the best so I won't enter!  I have always enjoyed catching a Barr hog as much as any other hog!  The easiest hogs I have ever hunted were having their way in a cow feedlot.  They were big, fat, and couldn't even outrun my soup hounds.   So why not make it a rule that the hogs cannot have any grain in there system either.  This would also eliminate any hunting deer corn feeders.  Don't these type feeders give an unfair advantage on finding hogs? If say you had a game camera set up and knew when the hogs were coming in.   Or even hogs on an oat or wheat field!   Wouldn't these hogs be easier hunting than say a hog in the east tx piney woods surviving on pine nettles.    I'm not a real hog hunted, and not trying to step on any toes, just a question?

You're exactly right. I know for a fact that several contests are won each year by folks riding around a feed lot with a spotlight turning out on big hogs.

I can only assume the ones that have issues with barr hogs, haven't been around many barr hogs?

TDHA always allowed barrs when I was a BOD and all the years I hunted it. Is there a new rule not allowing them?

Gator Country allowed them last year. I was there as a friend was the recipient of all the hogs weighed in. Is there a new rule this year?

I know East Fork does as we won it last year... like Tony said, a once in a lifetime hunt catching four big barrs in a group.

Name me the tournaments that were won last year by feedlots in one column and then name the tournaments that were won last year who's stringer included a Barr.  See which one is longer.

You know what they say about assuming.  Not something I want to get into.  But I can only assume the people with the biggest problem with "no barrs" are the ones who have them farmed out for a contest.

2013-
Caldwell = no barrs in stringer
Lexington = no barrs in stringer
Splendora = yes barrs allowed
Gator Country = no barrs in stringer
TDHA = no barrs in stringer
HDTT = no barrs in stringer

LOL what a joke! Come track hunt 20k acres of pine plantation, youpon thickets and try and briar patches to catch these "Farmed" out Barrs!!

I'm not gonna throw out names, but feed lot hunting has won many contests over the years... and that's a fact.

And what about all the "previously caught" big boars and sows that folks turn out and feed all year on ranches that are saved for tournament hunts? They're not missing their nuts... but have all been previously caught.

Hog hunting is a small world my friend... there are no secrets.

Personally, I don't give two number 2s about it. When I hunt a contest it's for fun.

The whole point of me bringing it up is because it is unfair to folks who do catch some big barrs... especially when two of your participating contests are right here in SE Texas where catching them is a big possibility.

Tony, that's exactly what I meant.

A lot of the barrs I've caught over the years have run the farthest, fought the hardest and had a kill anything in sight attitude.

Anyone that thinks they're fat farm pigs is sadly mistaken.

All of these contest and I agree that Barrs have a place in contest.  You can still enter and win prizes and money for big barrs.

Just not in a stringer.... But in a side pot.

No Barrs allowed in the stringer at a hog hunting contest ! That's crazy and I've never weighed a barr in at a tournament. Caught several but not during a tournament. First Obama and now no barrs allowed! O0 ;D What's the world coming to ? All these rules and over regulation is to be expected from the Liberals in Washington but now the Liberals are in charge of the Hog Hunting contest ! :o >:D Next year the winning teams prize money will be taxed for every hog that weighs over 250 pounds and if there are any teams that do not weigh in a full stringer then one hog will be confiscated from each teams stringer and given to the under priviledged hog hunters until every one has the same amount of hogs to weigh in.  popo Haha  ;D

I personally like the idea of no Barr hogs in the stringer myself I think it gives everyone a pretty equal playing field as we all know 99% of the time a Barr hog is going to weigh more than a hog that hasn't been cut and there are a lot of places that people hunt the landowners would kick you off if they found out we were cutting and releasing hogs so in my opinion it makes it a pretty even playing field.

This is a pretty decent point actually, I don't wanna ruffle feathers as I have friends on both sides of the issue and respect all of y'all, that being said;

There's a beautiful slice of Texas where barring hogs is a long held tradition and while it's not like there's a Barr under every thicket, but there's a much much much better chance to catch one in an area where they are the tradition.

For the rest of Texas, Barr hogs a extremely few and far between. Here in my area we have cuaght quite a few boars over the last year and I have barred quite a few of them, BUT it is highly unlikely that we ever find one that one of us didn't make ourselves. It is what it is and I've already figured it would several years till I can bring any competitive sized Barr hogs to any comp, but lots of us are working on it.

No matter what the rules or who wins it, it is a great accomplishment to even place in any of these comps, so best of luck to each and every hunter who enters it!

T-bob your exactly right I hunt Brazoria and matagorda county and I can't even begin to count how many we have cut and turned loose and I would be safe to say I bet we haven't caught 5 Barr hogs since my uncle started hunting with a govt trapper from bay city in 1978 I have no clue what happens to them or where they go maybe it has to do with our dogs are not worth killing lol. With that being said it doesn't matter to me one way or the other on the tourneys I will hunt them and have a good time doing it so good luck to everyone

I like the way you think!

So barrs don't count because they are "pre-caught"? What if someone turns in a boar hog or a sow with a notched ear? Will they count?

Most awesome comment I have probably ever seen on this site!!!

It's so true, just like politics. People act like Barrs are around every bush and tree where we hunt. No-one realizes that we did a number 2 ton extra work to get those. We catch 100's of hogs a year live and cut almost every boar hog. It's a democtratic mindset to be upset that "the majority" of hog hunters don't practice this... So to be FAIR we are going to penalize the hog hunters who do EXTRA work

That being said in all our tournaments, only once have we had Barrs in a stringer, so we will make do regardless. We don't like giving away our sausage making hogs anyway lol

Tony, Eric  Really its pretty cool to think,  you'll are such great hunters that rules have to be made so others can compete with you'll.   
So now you'll need to find some feedlots this year, so they can ban them next year!

Lol

It's simply a decision to sway the rules in favor of someone else, because someone with pull got tired of being on the short side of the stick when it came to winning.

Kinda what I been thinking!!

If your not first your last!!

And if you come in second, change the rules to give you a better chance!!  ;D

as far as i know the reason most tournaments dont except barr hogs is because most buying stations wont buy them cause packin plant wont take them. and that cuts into the money that the host is makin for the tournament. dont know if that is the case or if the buyer happens to b takin the hogs to meat plant to send over seas.

That's the first I've heard of buying stations not taking them...  ???

Not that we catch many around here, but I know we sold them one Barr that weighed 300 on the dot and they never mentioned anything like that.... I believe it was a southern buying station...

I really don't understand all the griping of no barrs in the stringer like I said before isn't it all about having fun and enjoying to see your dogs do good work. I know there are chances for everyone to catch a Barr hog and it would sure help the stringer weight out a lot. I really don't believe this whole thing of no barrs has anything to do with one team or another it just evens the field for everyone hunting. I am sure us Brazoria county hunters don't have a chance but we are going to give it hell trying.

it aint no biggie to me. im just sayin that most buyers dont buy barrs cause they sale them over seas and when they are barred they arent considered wild cause they have been captured. and as far as southeren they aint supposed to buying dog caught hogs anyway. but they probly have alternate buyers from huntin ranches so they take them. I would rather catch a big ol barr over anything but as long as rules are set and followed it dont matter to me. Thats just what i have ran in to in the past with tournaments. but hey i wish all luck in the tournament and hope yall catch alot of hogs!

Hunting is about having fun and watching dogs work.

Tournament hunting is something different...no one pays money to enter a tournment wanting to lose, you may not care if you win, but it doesn't stop you from wanting the win.

Here's an example of rule development.  The HT Redfish Series sponsored by Academy is one of the highest pay out and highest regarded trails that exist.  At the first tournament in Challmette, LA, a team faced a problem weighing in one of their fish.  This rule regards the measuring point of a fish's tail. 

http://vimeo.com/m/50699910
Go to 9:30 for the rule portion of the video.

While I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges because hog dogging and fishing are two totally different activities, this does illustrate an important use of rules. 

It's no secret that Barr hogs typically gain weight after barring.  And the use of only non-Barrs in tournament play eliminates the factor of any altered or influenced change to an animals natural state.  In an effort to maintain a high criteria of competition in a platform of as much equality is possible, it's simple, no Barr hogs.

What will become the result of no-Barr hogs?
1) more weights all hovering around the winning weight.
2) narrower margins of victory

From a tournament perspective, both of these factors build "Competition"!!!
And I can't emphasize that enough.  Because higher competition is what tournament play is all about!

Well I call bullchit on the rule. But if the people are scared  of alittle competition they are scared just say it. Yea im calling you out. If my dogs get on barrs and I spend a half a day catching them then I just waisted my money. It's a family traditions  for us to work hogs and just cause your family don't do it means it not right. Well im just going to say it. I think by making this rule you just separated the ties. Yours is better than mine we will fall as dog hunters and this bullchit is what separate US.
Sorry but its how I feel.

Is it harder for you to catch big boars than it is to catch big barrs Chance? 

It sounds that way...

EVERY DOG I HAD KILLED WAS BY A BARR. SO YOUR WRONG ON THAT. I GET MORE PUMPED OVER A BAR. THAN ANY BOAR. I ALSO SEEN A BARR THIS WEEK WAY A 150 pounds LIFT A 100 pound Dogo. A big Barr is more work than any boar. I'm saying you separated us and that is fine. We one the bumpers with no barrs. A wild hog is a wild hog. If they are so tame come get in the pen with one and feed him a peppermint.

The problem is you guys don't have barrs so y'all don't understand. Like I said it separated us that is it. I went and humted in Florida for a week hunted with every different kinda dog there was seen the purpose and why they like there dogs. But this rule aggregates me. Its like saying no dogs But curs are allowed in the competition. No hounds,bird dogs, or Dogos.   They are your rules if I don't like the rules well I don't need to enter.  I spoke my piece and I don't like the rule.

So then why are you really that aggravated?

Not quit.  A Barr is an animal that has been altered or influenced out of its natural state.

"Breeds of dogs" or and other view points about "feed lot hunting" and such do not impact the natural state of the animal. 

A true and equal competition should be based on unaltered or influenced animals in their natural state.

Because we hunted a place with no barrs. But all the places we hunt for tdha have barrs. We did not catch any in the bumpers but still won. Lets see two years ago win the girls hunted tdha they bayed 4 barrs that day the barrs were rank and killed my gator dog. Thats why. You want to say its the best of the best but its the best of the guys who don't hunt my country.

Texas I can go talk to one man and win this competition with out any barrs hands down. The hogs arefree ranged but they will come to the roads and eat out of the floor of a buggie they are pets three hundred atleast you will see on this mans place they don't run some will let you scratch them. I call that cheating. You just have no clue. When it comes to barrs.

The rule was not placed last year but it is this year. I was planning on entering but its only for dogs that will bay boars and sows. THE BEST OF THE BEST.

Texasj don't take this as I do not like you as a person. I don't like the rule and don't think you understand what it takes to catch barrs. If they are in the woods and I get on barrs well they are ruffer bigger and badder. So if I pay to enter a competition and my dogs bay barrs all day well I just lost cause they don't know the difference

Not quit.  A Barr is an animal that has been altered or influenced out of its natural state.

"Breeds of dogs" or and other view points about "feed lot hunting" and such do not impact the natural state of the animal. 
 
Feed lot hunting, does not affect the hogs!    Bull $hit!    Are you a pencil punched or a hog hunter!   Your talking theory, not facts!   A barr hog is a bad dude!       I guess your going to tell us  next Obama is going to save our country and supports hunting & gun owners!

Well I'm not offended at all.  And whatever you write isn't going to change a thing.  Because I've caught tank boars and I've caught weak boars... I've caught rank barrs and I've caught some really fat lazy weak barrs than just stood there.

At the end of this year, one person will be awarded "Hog Dogger Of The Year".  And they can also say they beat every other hunter there out there and didn't use one Barr hog to do it.  End of story.

You just stated your opinion and it is your rule.  I think your rule separates us as hunters that is my biggest down fall on this rule. I hate to see it do that.

Here's my opinion.

"The Best" will still win regardless if the competition allowed barrs or not.

I still disagree

Look at me... I'm "Hog Dogger of the Year"!

I sat in a feed lot with a spotlight and caught a bunch of big hogs.

Or, I've been turning out big boars and sows on a ranch all year and pouring the feed to them just for the contests.

What a do itin' joke.

The exact same thing can be said the other way.  I, however, respectfully choose not write anything "not nice" if I have nothing to say at all.

If you choose to not participate in the trail (because of Barr hogs or anything else) feel free to do so without dis honoring my trail or any of the tournaments for that matter. 

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 this hog right here was being ran for over an hour my goose dog ALONE pushed him out ontop of us this BIG BARR " THAT HAS BEEN ALTERED " SEEN US SITTING ON A FOUR WHEELER STOPPED AS I WAS UNCHAINING MY BULLDOG HE CHARGED THE FOUR WHEELER LIKE WE WEREN'T CHIT BUT I GUESS HE JUST WANTED US TO PLAY WITH HIM A LITTLE BIT I RECKON HE HAD A TOOTH ACHE  

(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k623/jane723/BIGBARR2.jpg)
 
he tore up one of my dogs pretty bad

but that piglet aint contest worthy

TexasJ

Just my opinion but I believe barrs are harder to catch than boars. Most have already seen dogs or they would'nt be barrs so they have a better idea of what to do or not to do to beat the dogs. Barrs are bigger, stronger, and have bigger cutters due to them not getting broke fighting over sows, all of which contributes to them being more dangerous for the dogs and the hunters. Barrs will sometimes run in packs. I've seen as few as 2 or 3 and as many as 9 barrs in one group and they will not hardly break when they are bunched up, they just stand their ground and wreck or kill any dog that comes in to catch. When a dog catches one barr the rest will attack that dog and make a pin ball out of him and when a barr does decide to break and run then he will run further than most boars. I do'nt see the difference in weighing in a barr or a boar that has old wounds or tears in his ears, or no ears at all because he has obviously seen dogs before and his natural state has also been altered. The problem that some of the hunters have with barrs is that some barrs will out weigh a boar with the same physical size and build. But then people that weigh in regular old sows could gripe about the team that weighs in a big barren sow that weighs over 300 pounds. What about the teams that weigh in a blonde, red, spotted or listed hog which is obviously proof that they have what we call blooded hogs not very far back in their history and will usually weigh more than your average piney rooter. What if some one weighs in a super fat boar that has a belly full of corn or cotton seed, is that fair ? I'm not trying to be a smart a## but there is alot of what if's when you start saying " you can't weigh this in or you can't weigh that in because it is unfair ". You asked Chance " is it harder for you to catch big boars than it is to catch big barrs". Well it's about the same or even harder to catch barrs and that is where the problem lies. Lots of the people that enter the tournaments don't know how to handle barrs when they get on them or they think that there are no barrs where they hunt but I bet there are some. It sure would be funny if some of the ones complaining caught a barr that weighed 400 pounds and would of won the tournament but come in 3rd because their complaining made it against the rules to weigh in a barr in their stringer. ;D

Lance if there was a like button I would hit it.

I would too.  I appreciate your post.

The solution is simple. Start another Tournament series and all of the tournaments in it have to allow barrs. There are so many people starting new tournaments every year that there is usually 2 or 3 tournaments every weekend in the spring. That's why there is a First Baptist and a Second Baptist Church in most towns, because the members of the original First Baptist disagreed and split and started the Second Baptist Church. ;D There are enough people on here that like making and catching barrs and know enough about the tournaments to pull it off real easy. I'm pro barr and think that all hogs should be treated equally. It is unfair and unethical to discriminate against hogs based on their sex (or lack of sex), color, size, handicaps, religion or political views. ;D The new tournament series could be called, THE HOG DOG TRAIL OF BARRS ALLOWED!

x2

just curious ... is this meat going to be ate? an if so why on earth wouldn't you want barr hogs I for one aint gunna eat no 300lbs stinkin boar hog unless i haven't ate in 3 days an im hungry an even then i'd become a deer huntin fool quick but i was just wondering where all this pork goes i know how allan wells was an that was cool but you would think the more barrs an sows the happier

Lance I like the way you think. We could call it the better of the best because it allows the biggest and toughest hog in the competition  ;D

So the bumpers competition is not in the best of the best?

Yee Haw! If you'll ear it down I'll climb on it! Seriously, there are more than enough tournaments to make it work and most of the guys in my part of Texas love to catch a big bad barr more than anything.

There are quit a few changes for 2013.  And it's apparent that some have chimed in before even doing some basic research.  Here's the tournys this year.

http://www.hogdogtournamenttrail.com/index.html

Here's an update on the changes for 2013

http://www.hogdogtournamenttrail.com/new-for-2013.html

Last year, Alan's tournament had a 1st and 2nd place finish that was dominated by weights of very heavy Barr hogs.

The desire of the tournament trail is to have Lots Of Weights all closely grouped together.  Without heavy barrs in this stringers, this is more likely to happen.  This creates more COMPETITION.  Also, there is a max number of hogs weighed in at each tournament.  Only 3!!!

This brings the margin of victory closer together.   The point is to create MORE CLOSE COMPETITION!!!

Try to understand this...

Well here is the factual story behind the winners of Allen's competition. Van donn Lionandboarhunter, Mike, and Jason Mac. Went and worked hard to catch some good barrs. But they only had 4 and yes leading it with a 400 lb trophy. They had bad weather and were having trouble to locate a 5 th and final hog. Witch ended up being a 150 pound boar. The other team that won it started out with a 347 pound sow (Barron) then had nothing they knew what it was going to take to win it. They went hunting hard and located a 300 pound Barr. Well just so happened there were 3 barrs rooting up my hay field and they come caught them. Witch put them in the lead. Everything they did was legal and it was truly a competitive competition with what happened that weekend and I was not even entered.

We knew what it would take to win,the bumpers and pulled together hard to do it. That is why its a competition.

Exactly.  And I'm puting together a trail that is intended to create an additional layer of competition across multiple tournaments.  And that obstacle includes establishing a format that entices more hunters to enter and more hunters who feel like they can win.  There are way more hunters out there who can put together a 3 hog stringer of non barrs and feel like they have a remote chance of winning.

The number of teams who "actually weigh-in" on 5 hog stringer tournaments is typically 50%.  The best I've heard of is 65%.  By lowering the number of hogs required, 3 things are more likely to occur.
1) more entries
2) more teams actually come to weigh-in
3) more teams feel like they actually have a chance to win.

These aspects improve tournament participation all the way around, as well as increase the competition. 

Then I think you should take "the best" quote out of your flyer or at least adjust it with an asterisk.. For the sake of making it more fair and closer competition for ALL competitors if you have to exclude something then it really is NOT a true test of the BEST. It is only the best within your set of biased rules

Yeah I went out on a limb there didn't I?!

Statement like that is sure enough going to start a controversy and get 4 pages of comments and 600 views in 4 days now won't it!

;-)

Texasj the reason it is bothersome for this rule to us is you take a dog like Blaster(rip) who is sent out to find and catch boars and change them into barrs then sent out to find barrs. That dog is the best of the best and we you say that a dog that goes out and find barrs to win a competition is taken the best dog out of the competion.

The best of the best can only catch THREE hogs in a weekend? Any one with any ol peice of chit mutt can catch 3 hogs in a weekend. That's not the best of the best by any means. That's just the right people got tired of loosing and have a little pull with the right people.

Not actually.  The HDTT is modeled similarly to redfish tournaments.  In redfish tournaments, anglers catch lots of fish, sometimes as many as 30 reds a day.  Texas Parks & Wildlife daily bag limits allows for each angler to keep 3 reds per person per day.  Why don't these redfish tournaments then require each fisherman to weigh-in 3 reds each day???

Because its not about catching the most.  It's about catching a few quality over quantity, and having narrow margins of victory. 

Suspense..... Excitement..... Competition coming down to the wire!

I just got off the phone with TexasJ ( Josh ) and we talked for a pretty good while about hog hunting , tournaments, and BARRS. I believe that he is an upstanding and sincere man to contact me like he did and explain his side of the argument and explain all that he does for the sport . He said that he is the sole organizer of the HDTT and that expenses and the website come out of his pocket. I commend him for the effort that he puts into his Trail of Tears and all that he does for the sport. I still do not agree with the NO BARRS
rule and never will because I believe that a wild hog is a wild hog wether it's been caught and barred or not but it's his Trail and like I told him, it does'nt matter what you do you will never satisfy everybody. Anybody that has ever coached a little league baseball, little dribblers, youth ranch rodeo team, or been a supervisor over several employees can vouch for that fact. I believe that he is the type of person that I would like to get to know better and go hunting and catch a trailer load of BARR HOGS with ! ;D HaHa.

Well said  I had a very similar conversation with him!

Thanks also to Jody and Lance.  I enjoyed getting to know you guys a little better since y'all have both been so active on this thread.  Thanks for providing me the opportunity to get to know both of y'all.  Lance, my prayers that your operation runs smoothly and that God's hand is laid upon you that day.

I also hope that things change for both of y'all.
1.) I hope that both of y'all join the TDHA &/or LSWDA
2.) I hope that y'all's start hunting tournaments.
3.) I hope that y'all's plans change to allow y'all to hunt in future tournament in 2013.

I appreciate y'all's contribution within this thread and to the Barrs discussion.  And after y'all become tournament participants and association members, we will then have these things in common.  Thanks.

Good points from all sides. No-one will ever agree totally. Competition has definitely gotten more intense this year

To me it's like saying.. This year for the College World Series, all teams can only pitch fastballs. At the end of the tournament, whoever wins. Do you still call them the BEST college baseball team in the nation?? 

Where do you draw the line on making it fair

The way I see it is like this...

Unaltered or influenced Hog for tournaments = The Olympics

Barr hog tournaments = http://www.hulu.com/watch/124975

The way I see it.They have always been allowed until someone starting complaining( sorry losers) lol now they want to change the rules.

lol sounds like they might need to cull a little bit haha its not everyone else fault they cant catch enough pork to even try to be any competion in a hunt its there own fault not the people with dogs that are straight up hog dogs ... i was always told from a young boy that you gotta be smarter then the dog your working with if your gunna own it maybe some should think about that ... or invest in beagles lol

From an organizer's stand point Chance, from someone who is trying to bring hunters in and get them to participate in any tournament, I put myself in their shoes.  On average, 50% of the teams in 5 hog stringer tournaments don't even catch good enough hogs to deem it worthy enough to come to weigh-in.

If there were 20 teams weighing over 1,000 pounds stringers in each tournament and 75% of the teams that entered showed up to weigh-in their catch we'll fantastic, boars or barrs wouldn't matter.  But that's not what's happened.  What's happened is that there's a few guys (most of whom have been opinionated on this thread) who have weighed in huge stringers with barrs.  And these few guys are way fewer in number that have a barring tradition in place that supports a higher potential to consistently weigh in huge stringers for tournaments.  

As an organizer, I ask myself basic "business development" questions.  Such as " How do I create a field of contestants?".  "How do I entice enough hunters to join my trail and ACTUALLY participate in multiple tournaments stretching across hundreds of miles of Texas?"  There's not a large field of guys.  And if I put myself into the shoes of the hunter who I think is typical to the majority of contestants, my guess at what he's thinking is this "I can't even do well in my local tournament, what makes me think I can compete on a multi-tournament State level".  And the fact is... He can't.

There use to only be a few tournaments around.  Last year, our hunting community has seen a sprouting of new satellite tournaments in areas that hadn't had one.  Serious logistics and resources play HUGE determinations as to whether a hunter even considers entering multiple tournaments.  The Randy Bumpurs tournament created a new challenge for hog doggers.  It created a live 10 hog stringer which hadn't been done.  And a lot of other tournaments followed suit by switching to live weight and increasing their stringer.  And while this increased the difficulty, these factors also played into overall number of team entry, overall number of teams who come to weigh-in percentage.  And most importantly, it deters a hunter from even entering when there are huge weights posted and he knows it would be impossible to honestly compete.

The change in direction of tournament formats now includes a completely different set of challenges.  Lower tournament requirements will entice more teams to enter, especially on a multi-tournament level.  Tournaments and their weigh-ins will prosper with a higher weigh-in percentage and more people at the events.  The challenge of actually winning will still remain but by narrower margins of victory.  

All of these aspects have been considered and discussed by many of the tournament directors.  These decisions were not intended to penalize a group of hunters because they did so well.  It's to try and bring more entry's into the tournys and give hope back to each team that they can win.

So please quit taking it so personal and try and see the big picture.  Dang, it's like you guys already had the prize money spent and I'm pulling dollar bills out of your pocket!

Im not taking it personal. So please don't take as I am. I said yesterday I like you I don't like the rule. I stand up for my rights as a dog Hunter and guess what my dogs hunt barrs so you placing that rule in your competition is taking my Barr hunting rights away. Look at the big picture. I was never ask what I thought about it and looks as several people on here were never ask ya'll just did it. It follows suit with today's politics and I think lance pointed that out. To many winning a hog hunting conest without barrs in it is like winning a gay rodeo.lol
There again just standing for are rights to compete in a competition that a rule( law) got changed without even ask by the ones who enter them.

There's still plenty of tournaments that allow barrs in the stringer.  Alan's tournament in Splendora and Los Cazadores are 2.  You can weigh in all the barrs you want.  You can still hunt your dogs and play in tournaments and there isn't any kind of law forcing you to do or not do a thing.

I understand that I have the right not to enter. I had planned on entering your trail of tears this year. As I did not last year.  It just takes me out of yours. I hope the tdha sees this and does not separate US as dog men. That would not be good as we all support both dog association. Tdha and lonestar. When you take barrs out of the competition you take alot of us out and our rights. Thats my point.

I'm very sorry to hear that.  I would have really liked to of had you in the trail.  You not entering will be a significant loss. 

Thank you for your concern about maintaining our rights.  I also maintain a focused approaching to championing the rights of dog hunters and will continue to do so.

Texasj I know you are proud of what you put together and the site looks good with some nice prizes.  I just wanted to say I liked the whole concept until the Barr rule. There again I have meet you and like you just not the rule. I wish the best for your competition.

I've always said that Barr hogs have a place in tournaments.  Just not in the stringer, but in side pots. 

Every hog hunter out there has a chance of catching unaltered hogs. But for whatever reason, not every hunter has a chance at Barr hogs.  And there's a simple way to level that for everyone. No barrs.  And that becomes important when you've got a couple teams weighing multiple huge Barr hogs and running away with the competition.

That, by no means, has any infringement when it comes to "rights".  We're talking about tournament application.  And as far as I'm concerned, letting y'all enter these "pre-caught altered" hogs into a wild hog competition does far more damage to true honest straight up completion than anything else. 

And if these hunters didn't feel like they could win without "Pre-catching and altering the physical characteristics" then they wouldn't be doing it and saving them for these tournaments.

Do you really think the only reason we cut a boar is so we can come back and catch it to use in a tournament???? As said on ESPN "COME ON MAN"

  The rule will not effect me in any way.

This is the way I see it. This is Josh's deal. He gets to make up the rules as he sees fit. He wants more hunters entered. This is how he feels is the way to do it. If you don't like the rules then dont enter into it.

Chance, You have the right to catch barrs,no one said you didnt. You just can not enter them into the stringer. 

 Again, I really dont care it they allow it or not. I see points on both sides. I do not hunt tournments anymore. I did a few times just to have fun with friends. Only time we won anything was the largest barr and longest tusks, go figure.

Barring hogs is a regional practice. Its not done everywhere in the state some folks think its a great idea and others not so much.

With that in mind, I would think that a contest, that will draw teams from areas that contain barred hogs, should allow barrs in the stringer.

The team really can't help it if they catch a barr. One team may barr hogs on a consistent basis and another team might never do it, but they both could catch one. That is what levels the playing field along with a polygraph to ensure that ANY hog, barr, boar, or sow was not: moved, kept, or held in less than a free range condition for the contest.

Each contest has a set of rules. Each set of rules is different based on the location and how the contest is run. I don't see a problem with one contest allowing barrs and another contest not allowing them. Its the same as some of the other rules being different.

I am a big supporter of the HDTT, Josh has come up with a great idea and has really done a great job setting it up. I hope maybe that he will consider allowing each contest to make the decision on the barrs. Some will have them some will not. The three hog stringer can be the constant through out the separate contests.

We, as hunters and dog-men need to work well together and support each other. We need to support the contests and support the groups that are putting them on.

I will support Josh and the HDTT what ever he descides to do, I am just offering my thoughts.

Thanks,
Paul T

If you take out feedlots I will take out barrs. Josh all you have to do is cutt a few boars and you will have some barrs.

I wish it was that easy to just cut them and we would have them but I know my uncle started hunting in 1978 and I can't even begin to count how many we have cut and let loose and we have hardly caught any Barrs around here I have no clue where they go or why we don't catch any. I personally don't have a preference in the rules I will say if I caught one during a tourney I would want to be able to weigh him but I believe rules are rules and everyone should just go with them and support the cause of what the tournaments are for.

The trail of tears had a great concept the whole competition for the best of best. Texasj worked hard to put it together spent alot of money to do this with a good cause. I think the whole thing would still be a great concept with the Barr hogs being allowed. It is his competition and it is his rule. Maybe next year he can regroup and fix it if this year don't work. I will say even if I was to enter the trail of tears I don't feel as I would be hunting against the best. I really hate to see his deal not work i would love to see all the tournaments work. But I feel all this negativity will pull it down.

Thanks Chance.  Neary all the hunters last year were guys that were on my team, or guys I talked into signing their name.  I only had 3 entries from guys completely unassociated from my contact.  If I get 4 entries this year I will be completely satisfied.  Roam wasn't built in a day.

  I don't care if the best hunters join or not.  If I can get a contestant field to hunt multiple contests, and finish their tournaments at the TDHA hunt, then I want to reward them for their tournament effort.  I don't care who they are.

One of the main statements that my trail stands for is TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL WINNING OPPORTUNITIES FOR HUNTERS WHO HUNT MULTIPLE TOURNAMENTS.  I'm not looking at pleasing a large crowd, because its a small field of hunters who hunt multiple tournaments as it is.

All these guys who have thrown their 2 cent opinion on my trail and these guys neither hunt one or multiple multiple tournaments need to understand that my Trail is not designed to cater to them.  But if a hunter already had plans to hunt multiple tournaments this year, then here is a reward system for everything your going to put out this year. 

This is my Trail and while my name isn't in the hat, the other guys on my team will have theirs.  These are my rules.  We're going to hunt Caldwell, Lexington, Gator Country and the TDHA.  We also would hunt Cazadores if the weekends didn't conflict.  I don't know of any other team or single man with that kind of plans.  But if you do, lets talk, because we'd love to have you.

Im going to have to put my 2 cents in i love the sport of hunting with the dog but i also hunt mainly farm land and to my farmers a hog is a hog they dont want hog eating there crop barred or not but on other hand to completely rule them out isn't  what i would like to see a seperate class would be a better idea the odds that everyone can catch one is slim i have been hunting with dogs for 13 yrs and i have only caught 3 barred hogs

Enough with all of this, lets just catch hogs!!!! 

Im a little late on throwing my 2 cents in....

I do not barr hogs and do not have barrs in my area. I may have caught one barr hog in my life. I believe the practice of barring and catching barrs are regional in the state. Just like sticking hogs and tieing.

I think it is done for the meat but also for the future catch of a large hog or large teeth. While some may do it for the contest and it is possible it is done for contest benefits...it is primarily done for the trophy aspect of catching a big toothy hog.

No matter the reason I will say I dont care when it comes to the tournaments if they are allowed. Everyone has different ideas and changes are going to effect everyone differently. No matter the situation you will hear from the unhappy.

I believe the tournaments are not awarding the real champion..... and the solution is easy to satisfy all regions of the state and its hunters.

First place should be awarded to the most hogs caught in the tournament. (money + buckles)
Heaviest 3-5 is money + buckles (with or without barrs)

Just my opinion