EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

How do you personnaly determine if a dog is fast?  Is it fast because it ran a hog down in a field?  Did it out run your buddy's dog?  Can it run 20 mph?  I'm interested in hearing how you determine what a fast dog is.  Out running 5 other dogs can be deceiving.  What if those 5 were just "SLOW".  Can't wait to hear this.

I would say in open country, against many different dogs, many times over. I've got a nine year old gyp I raised since a pup, lightening fast... and still out runs most dogs.

Lets see how i can put this in my words.  To me its not Really Speed its Quickness. I like a dog that is Quick. (Speed in short Burst). a Dog that when baying can run circles around a hog and not get touched, or stop a running hog when it catchess up to it. Thats my Def. of it  ;D

Ahhhh..... my favorite subject ;D

First of all, this is about speed, as in how it improves your success in baying/catching hogs..... not the same as outright race track speed IMO.

The NFL calls it "break away speed", the ability to "turn it on" when it counts.  I believe it's as much a state of mind as it is physical ability.... a dog may possess the ability, but until they learn the final "close in and shut it down speed",  it doesn't matter how fast he is on the race track.

The really good dogs I've been around had this type of speed.  That little burst that gives the dog the ability to spin a runner.  It's all about confidence, once a dog "believes" he can sit a hog down, the speed magically appears.... of course it sure helps if the dog has the genetic potential for speed in the first place....

Then again.... I've seen dogs that couldn't beat a beagle across a pasture.....HOWEVER, once they get 50' from a hog they become Michael Johnson.... lightning fast when it counts.

CutterBay's seen Ellie do it many times.... ;D

To me, fast means top speed, but quickness is the rate at which the dog gets to top speed.  My female is very quick, can go from 0-top speed in a heart beat, but she cant run near as fast as my male who takes longer to get to top speed, but once there, will not be beaten by many other dogs.  For a running catch dog, I would assume that a fast dog is what you would want, but for a bay dog or a lead in catch dog, a quick dog is at more of an advantage.  Who knows though, just my thoughts.

Quickness and athletic ability is the thing.  The difference in quick and fast is just longer legs....So let's start with some good leg...then you will notice that these dogs have extreme athleticism almost cat like...My male dogs can clime a 6 foot fence like it is a hurtle in a single bound (I have to close the top of the kennel in).

If a dog is athletic and has some good leg on him he will be fast...these dogs or pups will be bouncing all other the place.  You should be able to spot this by about 3 or 4 months if you look close.  I believe that one should breed for athleticism as that is a bigger part of this game than some realize..

I have a dog that just won't get outrun by anything in the wide open. While she's faster than greased lightning, she's got the coordination and maneuverability of a three toed sloth. She spends herself completely in a sprint because she lacks the stamina of a cur dog. I don't think that speed alone makes the dog, rather the whole package. What I have is drive and teeth with extreme speed, but I have sacrificed stamina, maneuverability, and weight (for controlling a hog). On the other end of the spectrum, I have a legitimately 92 - 95 lb short legged bulldog (weighed at the vet, not a guess) who is slower than Christmas but who has a real way of controlling a hog once he's caught. He's like an anchor. While neither of those dogs are exactly what you'd want physically in a hog dog, they each have a specific job within the pack that makes the pack stronger as a whole.

Cheers!
M

Once we werre hunting at a place of mine and a hog broke and we got to watch how fast mine and shawns dog was after the hog it was perty neat and amazing how fast they were on the trail to catch up with the hog. We were watching them on the garmin

I have a Black and tan houndxRotwieler back at my moms house.  When I was in high school and still lived at home I ran allot and kept that dog in shape becuase he ran with me.  He could run 25 mph very easily.  Although he is a bigger dog around 75lbs in running shape and he could only keep that speed for a little while.  Now days he is fat and lazy and would do good to reach 10 mph  lol.  Just goes to show you how much conditioning makes a difference in dogs.

I agree also with the total package top speed, agility, and stamina have to come together to really make a difference. 

Speaking of jumping fences, I have always beleived that if a dog cannot jump or climb out of a 6 foot pen as a young dog then they are not athletic enough for me.  Also if they might be able to jump out but not smart enough to figure out how then they are not smart enough for me either.  And when I get home and find them baying cattle I know they have the desire and if they went a pretty good ways to find the cattle then they got the hunt.  But then again they have to have enough handle to eventually learn that they are not supposed to do that and quit jumping out even though they can and know how.  lol  Now if I can accomplish all that with a young dog I'll have Athletic ability, brains, desire, hunt, and handle all without even trying. ;D

Waylon

Speed what a subject! I have some dogs that can flat run but I like a dog that can THINK while he runs a dog that can out smart a hog!I have a gyp that will bark ever time her foot hits the ground I will run her with a silent dog that swings wide this stops most every hog he gets on if he gets throwed out she will put him right back.Both have speed if they can put a hog on a dead run they will knoch the wind out of the hog and make him bay!I have a friend got the dumbest dog I have ever seen but is the fastest long range dog I ever seen lot of air wistleing through that dogs head but can fly!He stops alot of running hogs.

Two types of speed I look for in a dog.Sight speed,and track speed.Sight speed is when a dog is watching something run away,and then gets turned loose to run whatever is running down.Track speed is when a dog is not looking at the critter but is running the scent.Might be a smoking hot track,or a track that is a few hours old.Track speed,is something not alot of dogs have.Very rarely will you get a dog that has both.When you get a dog that is super fast on a track,and has that blazeing break away speed.You got yourself a goodun.I have seen more it in the running hounds with both.Running Walkers,Julys,Triggs.I havent seen many Curs with both,and fewer Hounds.

Best I can put it...I know it when I see it ;D

pure speed i judge by what's running down or what it's running with. i don't need my dogs to be the fastest on a clock i need them to have next man speed(as deion sanders calls it). they need to be faster than the next man. i ran a 4.38 while playing college ball my buddy ran a 4.32(he was the fastest on the team), he got beat more than i did. while he had the highest top end speed, i knew when to use my top end speed. THAT is what i want in my dogs. i would rather my dogs work the track a little slower to make sure they are running that right way and as the track gets hotter the faster they are running. i also would rather have a quick dog than a fast dog. a quick dog like mentioned above has the ability to get to top end speed in a hiccup so they can close that gap to lay teeth on a running hog.

as with everything in hog hunting this basis of preference is completely looking at the terrian in which you hunt. if i am in open fields most of the time i want a dog with long legs that has a very high top end speed and can sustain it. when you hunt open areas you want them to be able to us that leg much like carl lewis did to "hawk" the hog down so they can stop it. if i'm in thicker areas i would want a shorter legged dog that has great burst. when a hog breaks they need to have great burst to be able to get to the hog before it starts darting around trees and through brush. if it does get away i need them to be able to dart around trees and vines much like the hog AND be able to get to them quickly.

one way i judge my dogs tracking/following speed is looking at the garmin and if my dog is at the front of the pack most of the time then they probally have good track speed. if we have a bay and it breaks and my dog is at the front of the pack then i feel i got a pretty fast dog.

Where did you play your ball?

You want to compare speeds?  Buy a garmin.  It will take all the guess work out of it.  When i first got it, I use to analyze all the tracks at home.  I could tell which dog was in the lead, how fast he was running at every second and which dog overran the turn. 

i have seen top speeds of running 25 mph. 

I believe sight speed is all phyical, but track speed is a combo of  nose, brains and physical ability.     


I am calling tracking speed the ability to move a hot track or jumped game. 

When I first started hunting I would swear the dogs I was hearing were fast by how they were moving the track, then my buddy point out that the silent dogs were way ahead.   My point unless you are seeing the race, it is hard to tell which dog is figuring out the tuff parts and is in the lead.  The garmin takes out all the quess work.
 

Very Interesting.......... :)


I had a dog that I considered Fast. (actually two, both deceased) I called them fast because they hunted really fast, all the time they were burning up the ground looking for scent. Neither trailed the best, the hunted for air scent, and thats how they worked looking for hog scent. I liked them both as lead strike dogs and they were very valuable assets because they usually were the first to strike anytime they were on the ground ahead of my other dogs.

25 mph my neighbor has some potlicker that waits for me to come home everyday and I race him to my gate that sun of a gun gets clocked at 31 consistantly for at least 800 yds need to take him to the race track then.

I am with uglydog I like a dog that consistantly works fast they are usually the ones that find and outstrike the others. Buy dogs that most say their dogs have never been outstruck but when you cast them out they hunt 50 yds in front of the truck while the other two are 100 to 200 yds out when they are in decent shape. So who will strike first not to say the other wouldn't but when you got a 150 yd head start it doesn't take a genius to  figure it out.

For me, put the dog in a couple acre pen. If they can run a hog down and spin it... thats fast enough.

I was also taught to look at how the dog spreads it weight across it legs/ feet. If it real heavy footed on it front then its probably not real quick and the tends to get cut up more. They have to pull and push smoothly, keep their feet under them when working tight so they can cut,,, but can stretch it out if they need to.

3 out of 5 sources say the fastest dog can reach 37mph.

  I would rather have quick then fast.  I run fast. Takes me 15 yards to get my stride but when it hits.....money. Should of went to college paid for......lessons learned. Give me a turn on the bases, not too fast.
 Put a hog in the wide open, then speed is great, but put that same dog and hog in the woods and that 30mph speed dodgeing the brush isnt going to happen.

If they are consistantly catching hogs then they are fast enough. If they keep getting out ran by hogs then either they are too slow or they are trashing and need to be culled. I try not to over analyze anything, it hurts my brain. ;Dlol

The type of speed I like to see is for a dog to close the gap. I probally can count on one hand, how many times I have been lucky enough to be in the right place to witness it.

We had a hog bayed up in some thick stuff. He broke and came right out toward us and was headed across the pasture. He had a good lead on the dogs, probally 100 yards or so. We have two dogs in particular that closed the gap pretty quick and got him turned around. That is the best way I can describe it.
\

"Track speed"  IMHO has nothing to do with who can find a hog first.  That dog may have a better nose and maybe can wind better.  He might understand the terrian better.  Certain dogs know where to look for game sometimes.   My definition might be wrong, but it is what I think of when I say hear track speed.  Alot of times, you can take a old dog and he will out "jump" younger dogs but they will smoke him on the track.

Say you drive up to a field as a see a boar, be hears the dogs and hit the woods 100 mph.  You drop two dogs.  Which dog is the fastet at using his nose and brain to gain ground.  He is in a big block and his eyes cant be used.  How fast is he going. 


Can you neighors potlickers run 25mph while casing game and running a track.  If track speed was measured by top end speed then grey hounds would win hands down.  But the fastest grey  hould can only run "as fast as his nose can smell and his brain can process."   I could fine a thousand beagles with better track speed than most greyhounds.



If you never have a busted bay then "track speed" is not important.  If you dog always runs by sight then 'track speed" is not important.  But, tell me how fast your dog can trail.

The garmin will put a top speed to your dog while trailing and an average speed thru the whole track.


If you have a dog that can fly on a track, let's hunt.  I will bring the garmin, download the data and place the track on a satelite map. 
 

If you got a real hog dog and really been on a lot of nasty boars and want to know  how quick he is  .   All you got to do is go back and look at how many times he's been cut .  If he has never been cut and is a real hog dog that does the job then he is my kind of  Quick dog but not many real hogs dogs like that aint been cut thats been on a lot of nasty hogs ,   fast is a differnt story for running one down aint gonna help you in the tight spots were it counts.

Thats  how I define quickness  in the woods.

Rather have a very , very quick athletic dog than just a all out fast dog there is a major differnce when you are in a bind in a tight place.  Quick dogs live longer .

Fast is just something than can run one down in a open space big differnce quickness and smart is were its at in the woods dogs when you are in a bind quickness will save your life.

Of course this is in thick brush country .  Wide open plains is were you would need all out fast to run one down dont happen much around this thick country besides we will find him sooner are later.  Smart, very quick and agile I will take them all day long over very fast.

In the brush country
fast on track is a differnt story,  thats were fast helps you in thick country  .

Below are the details of a track of one of three dogs during a hunt.  I had looked at this before and had always assume this dog was the fastest, but a younger started cur actually led the race and straighten out the lost.  He was in the box when this hog was jumped and turned in.  The hog bayed for 30 secs and ran for about 15minutes before baying up at 100 yards where he was bayed the first time. The younger dog was about a minute ahead at all points. 

http://boards.tx-outdoors.com/photo_albums/sendbinary_large.asp?filename=Valdez06feb09.jpg&user=scdogman






                               Start Time                       Total Tiime           Total Distance    Average Speed of entire track
Track   Black   2/6/2009 9:12:19 PM      0:16:05                     2.1 mi           8 mph   

                                                                                                                               Leg          Leg       Leg        Leg
Header                      Position                          Time                             Altitude             Length      Time      Speed   Course
Trackpoint   N33 26.600 W95 29.216   2/6/2009 9:12:19 PM    302 ft
Trackpoint   N33 26.602 W95 29.203   2/6/2009 9:12:24 PM    300 ft      69 ft   0:00:05   9 mph   77° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.602 W95 29.188   2/6/2009 9:12:29 PM    300 ft      75 ft   0:00:05   10 mph   90° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.600 W95 29.170   2/6/2009 9:12:39 PM    300 ft      96 ft   0:00:10   7 mph   99° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.585 W95 29.188   2/6/2009 9:13:19 PM    298 ft      127 ft   0:00:40   2 mph   227° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.561 W95 29.169   2/6/2009 9:13:29 PM    298 ft      177 ft   0:00:10   12 mph   147° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.561 W95 29.169   2/6/2009 9:13:30 PM    298 ft      0 ft   0:00:01   0 mph   0° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.552 W95 29.167   2/6/2009 9:13:34 PM    297 ft      56 ft   0:00:04   10 mph   168° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.542 W95 29.169   2/6/2009 9:13:39 PM    297 ft      60 ft   0:00:05   8 mph   189° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.543 W95 29.171   2/6/2009 9:13:49 PM    295 ft      12 ft   0:00:10   0.8 mph   289° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.539 W95 29.170   2/6/2009 9:14:29 PM    314 ft      25 ft   0:00:40   0.4 mph   164° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.535 W95 29.160   2/6/2009 9:14:34 PM    314 ft      55 ft   0:00:05   7 mph   120° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.442 W95 29.183   2/6/2009 9:14:59 PM    308 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:25   16 mph   191° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.419 W95 29.175   2/6/2009 9:15:09 PM    300 ft      146 ft   0:00:10   10 mph   165° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.388 W95 29.251   2/6/2009 9:15:29 PM    297 ft      429 ft   0:00:20   15 mph   244° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.393 W95 29.270   2/6/2009 9:15:39 PM    306 ft      100 ft   0:00:10   7 mph   288° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.370 W95 29.328   2/6/2009 9:15:54 PM    327 ft      328 ft   0:00:15   15 mph   245° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.348 W95 29.384   2/6/2009 9:16:09 PM    319 ft      313 ft   0:00:15   14 mph   244° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.341 W95 29.399   2/6/2009 9:16:14 PM    314 ft      87 ft   0:00:05   12 mph   240° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.304 W95 29.272   2/6/2009 9:17:04 PM    291 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:50   9 mph   109° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.286 W95 29.313   2/6/2009 9:17:14 PM    291 ft      233 ft   0:00:10   16 mph   243° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.277 W95 29.338   2/6/2009 9:17:19 PM    294 ft      137 ft   0:00:05   19 mph   246° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.231 W95 29.343   2/6/2009 9:17:29 PM    294 ft      279 ft   0:00:10   19 mph   185° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.191 W95 29.312   2/6/2009 9:17:39 PM    295 ft      293 ft   0:00:10   20 mph   148° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.102 W95 29.223   2/6/2009 9:18:04 PM    305 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:25   19 mph   140° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.047 W95 29.123   2/6/2009 9:19:39 PM    297 ft      0.1 mi   0:01:35   4 mph   123° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.047 W95 29.123   2/6/2009 9:19:44 PM    297 ft      0 ft   0:00:05   0 mph   0° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.051 W95 29.132   2/6/2009 9:21:04 PM    295 ft      54 ft   0:01:20   0.5 mph   295° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.054 W95 29.136   2/6/2009 9:21:09 PM    295 ft      29 ft   0:00:05   4 mph   313° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.056 W95 29.124   2/6/2009 9:21:14 PM    298 ft      61 ft   0:00:05   8 mph   83° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.061 W95 29.103   2/6/2009 9:21:19 PM    303 ft      116 ft   0:00:05   16 mph   74° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.073 W95 29.086   2/6/2009 9:21:24 PM    306 ft      111 ft   0:00:05   15 mph   48° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.088 W95 29.079   2/6/2009 9:21:29 PM    305 ft      101 ft   0:00:05   14 mph   22° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.188 W95 28.980   2/6/2009 9:22:09 PM    305 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:40   13 mph   40° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.200 W95 28.972   2/6/2009 9:22:14 PM    308 ft      87 ft   0:00:05   12 mph   31° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.215 W95 28.964   2/6/2009 9:22:19 PM    310 ft      95 ft   0:00:05   13 mph   25° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.228 W95 28.958   2/6/2009 9:22:24 PM    308 ft      88 ft   0:00:05   12 mph   21° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.242 W95 28.957   2/6/2009 9:22:29 PM    306 ft      83 ft   0:00:05   11 mph   2° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.289 W95 28.944   2/6/2009 9:22:49 PM    297 ft      293 ft   0:00:20   10 mph   13° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.310 W95 28.958   2/6/2009 9:23:14 PM    308 ft      148 ft   0:00:25   4 mph   331° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.329 W95 28.959   2/6/2009 9:23:39 PM    291 ft      118 ft   0:00:25   3 mph   359° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.334 W95 28.958   2/6/2009 9:23:44 PM    295 ft      27 ft   0:00:05   4 mph   3° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.352 W95 28.965   2/6/2009 9:23:59 PM    305 ft      114 ft   0:00:15   5 mph   343° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.372 W95 28.977   2/6/2009 9:24:14 PM    314 ft      140 ft   0:00:15   6 mph   334° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.403 W95 29.024   2/6/2009 9:24:44 PM    319 ft      304 ft   0:00:30   7 mph   307° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.403 W95 29.033   2/6/2009 9:24:49 PM    322 ft      44 ft   0:00:05   6 mph   275° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.411 W95 29.052   2/6/2009 9:24:59 PM    325 ft      107 ft   0:00:10   7 mph   296° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.420 W95 29.091   2/6/2009 9:25:34 PM    319 ft      204 ft   0:00:35   4 mph   286° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.426 W95 29.196   2/6/2009 9:26:14 PM    330 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:40   9 mph   274° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.419 W95 29.209   2/6/2009 9:26:19 PM    319 ft      78 ft   0:00:05   11 mph   237° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.409 W95 29.225   2/6/2009 9:26:24 PM    306 ft      99 ft   0:00:05   14 mph   234° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.404 W95 29.239   2/6/2009 9:26:29 PM    300 ft      78 ft   0:00:05   11 mph   246° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.394 W95 29.275   2/6/2009 9:26:54 PM    303 ft      194 ft   0:00:25   5 mph   251° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.397 W95 29.415   2/6/2009 9:27:34 PM    295 ft      0.1 mi   0:00:40   12 mph   272° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.367 W95 29.434   2/6/2009 9:27:54 PM    311 ft      205 ft   0:00:20   7 mph   209° true
Trackpoint   N33 26.348 W95 29.408   2/6/2009 9:28:24 PM    324 ft      180 ft   0:00:30   4 mph   131° true

btt just for kicks

Is the dog quick enough to not get gator ate ;D

Well speed if you judge it is a good thing but determining it is something people judge in different ways and that makes us different. Yea speed means alot but think if the hog is running fast all the time it will get tired and the old saying says something like persistents pays off. At the end of the day persistents is better.

I'll take a fast hound over a persistant pack of "weenie dogs" (Dachshunds) any day.  By the time they catch up to a runner hog, 3 days will have past.  Oh, as a side note, once a hog commits to run, he can run all day long at a steady pace.   ;)

Physical Speed kills if you are hunting in wide open areas. Once they hit the thick stuff the only speed that matters is how fast they can run SCENT or track speed whatever you wanna call it...  Put a garmin collar on a greyhound and throw him in a briar patch and watch what happens..

Yes they can. And unless you are in a wide open area it don't matter how fast a dog can physically run. I think A LOT of times people THINK there dog "stopped " a hog when in reality the hog just decided to stop and fight..

Exellent post

I think stopping hogs is way more about the hogs than the dogs.  You come to my hunting grounds right now and they are tough.  They have been dogged several times a week since may.  They can flat run.

A dog can't run any faster than his nose will let him.  The fastest cur in the world can't run a track if he can't smell it.  The best nosed hound in the world can't get to where the game is at if he goes from track to track.

I like a dog that knows when to put its head down and work and then knows when to pick it up and travel.  I won't feed any that won't do both.

Everyone has their opinions on what is better which is fine but in my book and our neck of the woods a persistant dog pays off better. To me a persistamnt dog stays on top of it "job" or "duty" as i call it. Every hunt it tends to get better and yes we have bad ones when we dont catch nuthin but the dog is persistant on hunting and works the track and is persistant and does not QUIT!

That is bottom, not speed.  Separate thread altogether.

Track speed and accuracy is all that matters to me, but I like them to pace themselves as not to wear themselves out too quickly, but that usually comes with age.

Joey Young

track speed for me too!

I like a muscled up (hardbodied and slick coated) good looking dog with good length of leg and thick forearms and yet shows some refinement. I like to compare them with a linebacker or a triathalete. Not the fastest or the strongest but a good balance of all the qualities needed to get the job done. My dogs ran 28 to 29 miles per hour and could hold it for long distance. Don't know what is fast but this was fast enough for what I needed. Also was able to see which dogs had the heart to dig in and maintain this speed the longest. This told me what kind of heart they had.

I also like the catch dog to have somewhat some refinement appearance to it for speed. I like a catch dog that is as fast as any cur dog for a sprint of 1 to 2 hundred yards. They can't maintain this speed because of the weight they have to pack around. These dogs are lightening quick and agile in tight quarters.

I don't keep a slow tracking dog for long. It goes on the replacement list.

If the dogs is bred right a bay pen with the right handler can bring the dog up to speed quickly on how to stop and spin a hog and its confidence level will sky rocket.

Seeing how fast a dog can run is easy.  Hell have them chase behind the truck.

But how do you judge a dogs track speed?   I thought that was the orginal question? 

There are several reasons why I let my dogs run behind and in front of the truck. I usually don't explain every detail because I assume other readers will read between the lines.

When I was breeding hog dogs I put all my dogs through different excercises for data collecting. The dog gained  or lost points according to how it did.

Also, I wanted to see what speed the dog had and how long it could maintain it. I revved the engine up several times and the dogs knew to run after the truck and when the dogs were tiring I would let them pass me up and I would come to a stop and this was their reward for beating me. I won't explain but I thought it was very important for my dogs to outrun my truck.

I was also looking to see what kind of heart the dog had.

This also was a training excercise because I could rev up my 4 wheeler and the dogs would get ahead even after a long hunt. As a handler I had to decide if I wanted to push my dogs after a long hunt or to rest them.

Also, because I worked quite a bit and didn't have a lot of hunting places I ran my dogs for the conditioning... :)

I don't need a garmin to know if the dog is fast on track or not. I like a cold nosed cur dog that prefers hot tracks and will drift and circle to find the hot end of the track and then move out at a good speed on it. If the cur dog has to smell every track the hog made the night before before he can jump it then that dog is placed on the replacement list. This means that the next generation pup that moves a track and meets my other requirements will replace him/her.

If it is a colder track the dogs move it somewhat slower and more than likely they know from experience that the hog is not running so they move it silently until the hog is jumped or bayed.

If the dog sees the hog or winds it it needs to leave the track and go to the hog.


EVERYTHING I MENTIONED PERTAINS/CONTRIBUTES TO A DOGS SPEED ON TRACK..IMO... :)

When I talk speed I am only talking the speed at which a dog can move a track. A fast track dog is one that runs a track with his head up and off to the side of it. There are dogs that can actually run a track a mile in 2 or 3 minutes and bay a hog but they are rare I have only owned 4 of them in my life. Half my dogs are a little open so I have to have fast dogs because if a dog opens on a track he has to be able to run it at least twice as fast as a silent dog because the hog is already running because he opened his mouth.

With a good crosswind the dogs should be running a little behind the hog and to the downwind side maybe 20 to 25 yards and they are running with their heads up smelling the hog off the wind currents and looking for the hog. They do this in the thick woods where they can't see the hog nor keep up due to the vegetation.

So i am going to buy a dog.  A man says he has one that I like, but track speed is important to me.  I want to see the dog hunt by himself and he is a silent dog.

We drop the dog in a block of woods and hear him bay and then the hog breaks.  He runs for 45 minuets and comes bayed.  How do I know how fast he is?  Is he faster than the dog I have at home.  Is he slower.

Should I ask the man to have his dog run behind my car until he is tired. 

How do I judge this dog's speed?  Hell how do I know he was running the whole time? He could have quit the track and came bayed while he was coming in?

Short story.  Guy from Georgia is selling sure enough, no bull, finish dogs.  Boys from SC want to buy dogs.  They meet in the woods.  SC boys bringing there C level dogs.  At the end of the hunt, boys from GA with sure enought no bull finish dogs want to buy the C-level dogs.  They have never seen a dog that good.  Guys from Georgia were not trying to pull anything.  They had just never seen better dogs.  The point, just because you think a dog is fast does not mean he is fast.  Just because he is the fastest in the area doesn't mean he is fast.  But if a you have a dog that usually runs a track at XX speed and my dogs usually run at XX speed then they are close if conditions are the same.

If the dog is not built right and his top speed is 20 mph in open country and this dog tires quickly then this dog can not move a track any faster than 20 mph and he won't last long in the race. Much less in bad terrain... Even if the dog were to have stamina he still can only run 20 mph max...

I have been hunting with dogs about 45 years now but only been hog hunting them since the early 1980's.

Back then the majority of the good dogs I saw were crossed with walker, redbone, plott and I saw a few good 1/2 bloodhound 1/2 bmcs that were awesome hog dogs. The ones I thought were real good could burn a track and had good noses.

 I like a dog that can really move out on a track but he also needs to be exceptional at locating and figuring out and lining the track out. Locating and lining out a track is just as important and they go hand in hand.

Yall need to get some July's (If you can still find some good ones)  Then you will see some track speed.  I have never seen a dog get out of range of a Wildlife system in 10 minutes!

Joey

Points to be taken from this. 

1.  Just because a dog can run fast Does Not mean it can move a track fast.  If that was the case, we all would be hunting greyhounds.

2.  "Everything is relative."  Fast in your book might be slow mine.  Or your slow dogs may lead my pack.  20 Mph was thrown out, well I have seen track at speeds of 25mph or more.

3.  Track speed is like everything else.  Mine is bigger, longer, prettier, cooler until we actually are able to measure .  Example All boars are 300 pounds plus until someone breaks out the scale then 300 lbs goes to 225 or 240 lbs.

4.  I;m not a garmin pusher.  I think they still have holes in them.  I still run my old collars, but they is no better tool to determine the track speed of a dog.

Shear speed? A fast dog can catch rabbits pretty regularly.

Not sure what the other post was about. 

Information can be download straight for the collar.  So information is recorded even if the collar loses connection with the GPS.  Again I run both the Garmin and the regular.

Also,  I believe the person who wrote that poste now has a garmin.  I may be wrong, but I believe he owns one.

Again the post was not to debate the importance of track speed, but how to judge it.

This is my take on this speed thing yall are talking about. A hog is no different than any other pray, the faster and harder you push him the faster and harder he is going to run.Speed is good IF you have a dog that can shut him down, To me hunting hogs is not a timed event.I would much rather my dogs sneak in and circle him up like the indians use to do. And not give him a chance to run a all.If my dogs can shut one down quick good for them,if it takes 3 hours to shut one down the same good for them.

You be right... :)

Speed is great and I wish all mine were super fast , but the main thing I look for in a dog is , Does that dog consistently bay hogs? I don't mean is he always there with the other dogs or will he run with the other dogs , I mean can the dog consistently bay hogs by himself? That to me is what counts if your goal is to catch hogs  when you go to the woods..

I like my steak medium rare.

Ribs are good too.


Just random thoughts.  They have nothing to do with how to judge a dogs track speed, well neither do the most of the others post. 

The question was how to judge track speed not which is more important or how to test for it. 

Shrimp is my favorite though O0 O0 O0 O0

x2...and service with speed, as long as it doen't interfere with quality of my meal a plus :)

So how do you judge the "speed" that they cook and serve you steak? ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well, that is a broad question. I don't think I can answer that one without generalizing. ???

But on a serious note, I have enjoyed this thread and all the view points as to what others think and like even if it was a little off subject at times... :)

Right now I'm watching the dog whisperer. Maybe I can come up with a new good thread like this one. :)