EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Paul T. Is the tdha taking barrs out of there competition. Is bumpers taking barrs out. Those are the best of the best competitions free range that is. If they are I would like to know???  I support both groups that put these on and would like to know if im a Barr Hunter if im allowed to be in there group.

Seems to me if it's called a "Hog Hunting" tournament, it should allow Boars, Barrs, and Sows.   My dogs hunt hogs, not Boars, Barrs, OR Sows.


If you are not going to allow Barrs, maybe change the name to a "Boar and Sow Hunting" tournament.

Thanks Chris. Is the lonestar handling the bumpers?

I don't know, but I doubt it...

I like the bumpers competition it gets real competitive if you ask me. The tdha is a good one to but I would like to know if they allow barrs in them.

where about are these hunts located?

Bumpers is in buffalo. Tdha is in halletsville.

     

o ok that aint to bad ... what are the time windows do you know ?

Chance, I am not on the TDHA board this year, so I am not in the loop about this years contest.

I can tell you that we have talked about pulling the barrs out of the stringer for the last couple of years. It had nothing at all to do with how hard they were to "re-catch", that is not the issue at all. The issue for us, in the past, was only that the barrs had been "previously caught" and that means that they also could have been moved.

"Could have been moved" by this I don't mean I/we ever suspected that teams were loading spots by hauling in barrs. We just were thinking ahead and trying to head off a problem before it might happened.

I personally do not have a problem with y'all that barr boars. I understand the history of it in parts of the state. In my part of Texas it is simply not done and anyone caught barring and releasing would lose every place they had to hunt.

One issue is that in the rules it allways says "hogs can't have been previously caught or held for the contest. This puts the barrs in a grey area because they have been previously caught.

Chance, I will tell you that writing a fare set of rules for the TDHA contest is a very difficult task. TDHA has all ways worked very hard to put on a contest that is as fare to all hunters as we could possibly make it.

This is an important thread. This issue needs to be discussed openly by all involved.

As I said before I am only a regular TDHA member now and have no input on the rules.

Thanks,
Paul T

Thank you Paul. The polygraph should protect the issue of releasing hogs for the contest. But it can be done with boars and sows also. If you had a bunch of 300 pounds sows then I could release them also.
Thanks for your service of the tdha. I have not kept up with who is leading it.

Chance beat me to it... that's exactly what the polygraph should be for.

Is this question even asked? I know it wasn't the two times I've been on a winning team.

Most all barrs are caught, cut and released on the spot.

How does removing the Testoterone from an animal not change it's physical state?

Lets take horses as an example. 

Explain to me the deferences between a stud and a gelding and let's see if we can determine any similarities in removing the testosterone out of a hog.

Chance, yes the same problem of catch and release applies to boars and sows as well. The polygraph at the TDHA contest has all ways contained that question the last couple of years.

One thing to remember is that hunting is hunting and that a contest is a contest. A contest has got to have rules and those rules are designed to provide a level playing field for all who enter. 

We all have different styles of hunting and different ways we do things. We all have to change things up a bit to conform to the rules of a contest, the barr rule would be no different.

The exclusion of barrs has got nothing to do with how hard they are to re-catch, its the fact that they have been caught before and that they will weigh more because they have been cut.

I will not enter the tdha competition as all my places have barrs and I would more than likely be catching barrs through out the day. I guess it like the d in barrel racing the losers can't stand to lose. That's the world turns.  US having places with barrs puts us waisting our time. Like I said it separates us you way my way. All we have to do is put on a contest the same day that has barrs and pays back 5000 more and better prizes then we will see if the barrs or money talks.lol

Chance I am not saying what is right or wrong, just giving a view point from years of writing rules. We had the barrs in with the boars when I wrote the rules.

I understand your point perfectly, you have a very valid argument.

But so does the other side.

I am not writing any rules this year and I have never entered a contest, so I don't have a dog in the fight. Just trying to help the discussion and see if I can help one way or the other.

I am hoping who ever is writing rules for TDHA this year will post up their thoughts.

Paul t. I thank you again for you fighting for our rights as hunters. I hope they pay attention to the Barr thing to as I enjoy hunting and supporting the tdha.

I was raised as a Barr being a tradition being passed on from the first settlers of Texas.  A Barr is a trophy to me any day. A privilege to get to catch a hog that someone took the time, & trouble to cut & rerelease.  That is intended to one day be a trophy with the best quality wild game available to eat!    Is this not part of hunting, a time honored tradition!   Watch " Old Yelled"   Cut, release with cur dogs!      Guess I'm just old fashion and hung in my ways!

General questions
Why does anyone Barr a hog?
Do you like to see your dogs get killed by these "rank barrs"?
Why barr a hog and let destroy more property?
Where we hunt we would get run off. Have gained a few spots because of it.  Thanks!!!
Are you in it for the sport or are you in it to help your local farmers and ranchers?  Everyone that I talk to is there to help remove hogs not catch, cut,and release.  Lots of people promote themselves as that.  
Mike I've hunted with you and you have nice set of dogs.  Enjoyed talking about hunting with dogs and hope y'all come back.
Chance I met you at tdha. Seem like really good person.  
Lance you came to our tournament last year. Abel and me still talk about you. Jody I've known you and your whole family.  I talked to you today and you told me that you dont barr hogs anymore.  Said you would get run off of a place for that.  ???????????
I guess everyone has there opinion, I just think that Cutting a boar isn't right.  I cut a few when i was young and never seemed right. I guess I'll  ask the question again please explain a good reason for cutting hogs.  Or is this just your fun or for tournaments? It's just my opinion. I wish everybody luck in whatever tournament that you hunt.  I hope y'all will hunt our tournament.  Looking for everyone to have good time at ours.  Bigger money, better buckles, "Hog Roast" BBQ competition, 10 gun gun raffle, art and crafts booths. Live music Saturday night.  Any question please call me 979-716-7230 or Abel at 979-716-7588. Looking to meet and talk hog hunting with all you.  

I Barr every boar I catch and I don't hunt any contests, I'm not even from Texas. It's a tradition and it's one I'm very fond of.  There is nothing like walking into a bay and catching a big Barr hog that's wearing your mark, and you remember cutting the hog three or four years before.

If you are allowed to cut and release, then I encourage it.  If not, I completely understand, so I expect the same in return for how I do things. I work hogs, because hogs are livestock to me.  

I've seen big barrs, little barrs, rank barrs, and barrs that would give a shoat a run for the money in the squealing department. Most of the time though, they're rank, rougher, smarter, and despite being fat, they can really run.  They usually have better teeth as well making them a true hog doggers trophy especially when you have a history with the animal.

Clayton as I go back and read my post again I should have also stated I now only partake in part of the tradition.  That being that I love to catch a Barr hog.  I do not cut them anymore and have not in 8-10 yrs.   That does not change the fact that I like to catch them.  And I guess it would make me a taker not a giver.  Of all the barr's I have caught never has one of them been one that I cut.   I'm sure they would all be dead of old age by now if another hunter did not get the luck of catching them, or a deer hunter.

Clayton, I make barrs because I like to catch them later and butcher them and I've ate everyone I've caught. It is something I was taught to do and have always done and so do most of the other hunters in my area. I also enjoy catching a good barr because it is not something you do everyday and I find a 400 pound barr more challenging and fun than a 250 pound boar or a bunch of sows and pigs. I don't release boars or sows, just barrs. I had a great time at your tournament last year and bragged about yall and your tournament to everyone that would listen and if I did'nt have to work this year then I would'nt miss it for any other tournament because I would like to visit with yall again. It's just differences of opinions. You might like a Chevy and I might like a Ford but I would drive a Chevy for the right price. I just prefer a Ford because that is what I grew up with and I like barrs for the same reason.

Clayton,

We cut Barrs for two reasons. #1 and by far most important is Sausage!!! It has long been a tradition of our ancestors to cut hogs, turn them out for the year and then go collect your hogs for winter so the family can eat. Obviously times have changed but we still carry on this age-old custom. I don't know  about y'all or anyone else but we don't eat boar hogs.you can take and cut a boar and within 2-3 months his boar taint is gone. Then for however much longer he lives he starts to marble and get fat within the meat. Which all equals some of the best table fare you could ever ask for!! The fried back straps are a pieces of heaven on Earth.  #2 we do it for the trophy aspect. We trophy deer hunt in the winter, trophy hog hunt in the spring, & fish in the summer. It's adrenaline rush to continuously year after year catch huge teethed, 300+# hogs that you can then turn around and eat.

That being said we hunt totally different country. Where most of our barring takes place we pay for deer lease memberships or the people that own the property want their hogs "worked". So that takes alot of the angry owner/rancher/ farmer issues out of it. For the most part our country is endless miles of pine plantation, youpon thickets and oak flats. The damage from the hogs is minimal vs. y'all's country where most of the land is family owned, ranched or farmed.

Where my gripe on it is say you have a hunt that happened to them mike & big e last year where we bay 4 barrs, dogs get totally wrecked, punctured lungs, kills mikes Tweety dog and so on. But the dogs did work and sucked all 4 hogs up and got them in the trailer. There were 258, 264, 301, & 406# in the group, and plus its all on video. Now most hog hunters would give their left nut to be on a hunt like this. Then we show up for a tournament and the tournament won't take the hogs because "the majority" of the weekend warrior hog hunters now don't practice this old custom. It's not a big deal to y'all or other people because y'all don't ever do any of the extra work cutting hogs, therefor don't have them in your hunting areas. People that think its no big deal to rule them out for the most part don't ever catch Barrs. Therefore feel slighted when other people bring them in by the trailer full.

Didn't y'all have a Barr in y'all's stringer last year that won TDHA??

In the 10+ tournaments we've been involved in we've only ever caught Barrs once and actually got 2nd that time lol so it's not really a huge deal to us. We would rather keep them to eat anyway

Tony,
Sorry we had 4 boar hogs and 1 sow that we turned in. We actually had one more sow on the trailer that was about 200 too. I have nothing against traditions that have been passed down. Talked to my grandpa about this and he said that some used to do that, but most weren't picky at all. He said that they didn't have the money turn a Barr hog loose in country to let get bigger. What ever they trapped or caught they ate. Didn't matter if it was a boar sow or piglet.  It was a meal for them. 

Thank you to the person for starting this post.  I am on the board of TDHA and i do have a part in the rules being written.  This is as Paul T. noted is an on going fight we are having.  We get a bunch more people that complain about Barr's being entered then the other way around.  I am very much against cutting hogs and "re-catching" them on a personal level only becuase i wouldn't have a place to hunt if i did it.  I am not gonna go into my views on this becuase its besides the point.  However, i have been hunting a contest and caught a barr that no one had any idea where it came from.  We entered it and we won.  Would i be very mad if the rules didn't allow for it, yes your dang right, becuase i (or anyone i know) did not cut that boar.  

We are the final hunt of trail of tears and for that contest you are not allowed to enter a barr.  We are currently throwing around many different ideas and i am glad this subject has been brought up on here so we can monitor responses.  I highly encourage all of you that hunt contest to respond to this post with your views.  

We are writing rules right now and this is a very HIGH input topic right now.  

i forgot to mention at the end of the day we totally realize it is impossible to please everyone, but we will do our best to make it as right as we can. 

We are in Texas and we are one as dog hunters. Where we live we Barr hogs where ya'll live ya'll don't. It is the Texas dog hunters association not the Texas dog Hunter association with no Barr dogs. We hunt hogs as a tradition and would prefer hog over deer. Everyone with in 30 miles of me Barr hogs. We are not farmers most of us are ranchers there is a difference. These cowboys and ranchers work hogs on there own ranches  I understand ya'll are not allowed to work hogs but we are different. Im afraid that if y'all take barrs out it will separate US. Matter afact I know it will. Someone will start putting on competition that allow them locally  

Here's my input.

Barrs are hogs too, I can't very well "train" the dogs not to "trash" on barrs can I?

It's the same thing as you writing a rule that no listed boars will be allowed in the stringer and that all red boars get a 5 pound deduction.

Just kinda silly when you think on it huh?



I've cut a few this year specifically because I want to be able to catch big ol trophy Barr hogs in the future. Matter of fact I know of a dang nice boar right down the road that I'm about to go drop on his track and if I catch him, his balls are coming out whether it hurts me in the contests or not.

Matt, barr hogs have always been allowed on the TDHA hunts... no need to change the rules now?

The polygraph should cover any issues on people releasing hogs for contests... whether it be boar, barr or sow.

We are Texas Dog Hunters Association as in protection for all dog hunters.  Its not just about the hog hunting.  I totally agree with you in difference in locations and like or dislikes when it comes to hunting.  That is why i have to throw out my personal opinion and be here for everyone.  Its like trying to force a democrat to become a republican or vice versa.  We all have our own beleifs but at the end of the day i hope you and everyone else supports TDHA support what you/we love to do.  It should not always be about the money, the prizes, and everything else that comes with the win.  To me its about the contribution to the cause.  Your helping TDHA lobby for you, your enjoying some good hunting with friends, all while in some way helping someone who is less fortunate then us to always have food on the table.  I don't come home and tell my wife hey look at all the money i just won.  I come home and say i took part in something that brought in close to 30000 lbs of food for the needy or helped give money to someone to go buy that food.  That should be what makes you feel all warm in fuzzy inside.  

We will do our best and i will make that promise to you (or at least i will fight for that) even if it means more work for the so few they volunteer to help for this hunt.  

Mike i would agree with you.  The polygraph should take a lot of the grey area out.  I am taking this to the board while im posting on here.  I don't want to post my purposal until it has been discussed with the TDHA board, but i do believe there is a way to make this work for everyone.  It does mean a little more time, work, and effort on our part, but it can be done. 

I do believe there were two contest held on the same weekend last year did it hurt the numbers yes it did. I know of two teams that hunted the high fence hunt instead of the tdha. If we keep busting hunts on the same weekend then it separates us as one that is my point. I would rather us stand as one group than split are par over New rules.

Awesome post. 

i commmend los cazadores for working with us this year and not having it the same time and atascosa has done the same.  It is my bias belief that TDHA hunt should be something special to everyone and if Lonestar is a part of one or starts one on there own i think it should be held as special and not stepped on.  I worry every year that some silly law will be passed to where this will be all over but the crying for us.  We do need to stand together and keep fighting this battle.  On hands on deck is so much better then just a few.

I am and TDHA is here for all of you guy and gals and i want to fight and fight hard. 

If anyone wants to discuss any ideas on this please PM me and i will pass my number along to talk with anyone. 

What's to be discussed with the board? The rules have been in place for years and have always worked fine.

Boarwild thanks for looking into this. Im glad that we seen the rule in Texasj best of the best before it just got slipped into the other competition with out the opinions of others. I seen somewhere where there were complaints on the Barr hogs being in the competition. I was never ask and it looks like several others were never ask only ones were heard were the complainers.

Well we have to make it where we comply with HDTT as we have already agreed to be apart of.  We had to revamp rules because of the change from from live back to dead.  So we are going back to the 2011 rules.  

So when hunters come to the weigh in we will have to seperate our hunt from HDTT or just be the same.  If we just coincide with HDTT and have the exact same rules then the weigh in is easy.  If we have our rules with differenct stringer rules like allowing barrs we have to find a way to run it through at the same time and be efficient at doing so.  

So say your team Mike brings in 4 hogs and in that is 1 barr.  We would have to weigh your 3 pigs without the BARR for the HDTT hunt and then take away your smallest boar and add back your barr for our hunt.  Hopefully i am making sense.  Its hard to type what i am wanting to say.  And/or when your team comes up you say you are not in the HDTT hunt and then it won't matter, but with all that takes a good system to make it work.  Mike if i make no sense at all and you still have my number give me a call or i can call you around lunch and maybe i can explain better over the phone.  

Do what???

HDTT needs to comply with the rules of the contests that have been going on and working well for many years... not the other way around.

The complainers are most often the ones being heard ;).  

By the way in case no one knows me as i don't post many pictures or anything on boards.  I am Matt Martinez from Devine, TX.  I hunt from Pearsall to Carrizo Springs and run mostly mutts that catch half dead, broken back pigs only when they find them sleeping.  I am not just someone that sits on a board and not hunt.  I hunt at least 4 times a week and being a banker i am lucky enough to have more land they i can run.  I am here for all of ya'll and myself.  Chance i am a rancher myself.  We run around 500 head of registered brahman cattle, but yes i do hunt mostly for farmers and i don't get the luxury of cutting me a boar and making him nice and fat to eat.  I do run a 22000 acre place in batesville and maybe i should start doing that there.   ;D  

I will report back ASAP on this subject per the TDHA Hunt.

Mike we felt that with as much work that Josh Gregory has done and with his trail of tears becoming a big deal we try and make it easier on everyone including the hog hunters themselves.  Its all about efficiency, and it becomes hard becuase it is so hard to get help.  I brought 3 guys with me in 2011 to help that would have rather been hunting the contest but if we didn't have them a few others that were there it would have been a nightmare for all hunters and helpers.   

I am VERY confident this will be a non issue Mike.  The TDHA board will make it a non issue. 

Boarwild thanks again for listening. We have hunted the tdha for awhile had plans on hunting it again this year.  Im standing for the rights as a Barr Hunter that is what im trying to do. I will yell you this when we catch a Barr we hate to turn it in during the competition do to the fact we like our barrs that much. But competing we do it so we can win.

all i can do is try.  I am reasonable but i also know either way someone will be mad.  lol

Thanks for the topic

That's cool Clayton, I thought I had remembered Able said y'all took one up there. Must have been year before. There's one or two running around nicks place we took the nuts out of after they got caught in a bobcat trap lol, if y'all end up catching them one day let me know. Id like to know how big they end up. They are around 130# now

Ya that was a sow that weighed 255. Abel was talking about the sow she ran us about 2 miles.  We called her a baron sow. Didn't look like she had to many litters for as big as she was. We never have caught one for a tournament.

Sounds good man. Hopefully we'll see you at your tournament this year

quote:
"Well we have to make it where we comply with HDTT as we have already agreed to be apart of.  We had to revamp rules because of the change from from live back to dead.  So we are going back to the 2011 rules."

There is your answer straight from BOARWILD.


Dead hogs and no barrs for TDHA as well!

 That's gonna keep every team east of I-45 from entering TDHA!

I'm partially with property on both sides of 45.  I'm entering.

There is a saying that I was told as a young man. You should not assume because u make an arse out of u and me. 

Yes it's a dead hog hunt and no it's not no Barr's.  thank you for ur help though.

Boarwild please let us know how it will stand we are trying to get our teams together for the year and what places we will let settle for the competition. I would hate to have to start  killing my dogs for trashing on barrs.j/k I doubt we will put a team together if barrs don't count. We will hunt the bumpers and the dwells.
Another point I hunted in Florida on a government  property that no one works hogs on there were three Barrs caught we would have waisted our dogs energy and time if we were in a competition . If my dogs catch4 barrs int one day they are done so my money was waisted.

I have also received several text and phone calls the word is spreading fast people are getting on here and reading. The local boys are highly upset about this rule. I can forward any text that was sent. Some are very ugly.

well it truely upsets me that that's what people care more about.  Hopefully we don't look back on this sometime in the future and say well if we just had a little more money to pay lobbyist to fight harder we would still be hog hunting with dogs. 

There is no set rule at this time that says we are or are not allowing barr's.  I hope i have stressed enough times now that this is the biggest discussion we are in at TDHA at this time. There will be an answer out very soon with plenty of time to plan. 

Boarwild you are correct. This rule was not stated by the tdha as of now. It was stated by the trail of tears. Most I know do not enter the trail of tears this would have been my first time to enter it. As it just got on its feet real good last year and caught my eye of something I would have liked to enter. Boarwild has clearly stated how he liked this post to see where alot of people stand and there opinions.

i have a suggestion/question to everyone. I like a good compromise and unlike the government we have it think a compromise is possible.  There are probably just as many people who don't like barr's in contest compared to who does. 

What if we had a stringer capacity on barr's.  IF our stringer was 4 we only allowed 1 or 2, stinger of 5 we only allowed so many.  Basicly whatever the stringer number is we only allow so many barr's.  I would bet its not that ofter you catch 4 barr's in a weekend unless you were hunting a game proof place which we don't and have never allowed. 

What say you?  please respond becuase i am here and listening. 

I say why change the rules? Barrs have always been allowed and there have never been any issues. The poloygraph will take care of those who cheat.

This is a state wide hunt... for the most weight.

People hunt feed lots...

People hunt farm land...

People hunt hunting ranches where protein is fed year round...

All these places produce big, heavy hogs... and lots of them.

East Texas has barr hogs... that's the best chance folks in this area have to compete when compared to other areas as far as weight. Barr hogs don't grow on trees like people think they do.

for the past 7 years people from east,south,west and north Texas hunters have complained about Barr's being allowed.  There is a hand full of people representing the people who want to allow barr's and a lot of people representing to the board by phone calls and past pm's that doesn't want to allow barr's. 

The 6 or so people responding that do want to allow boars is getting overwelmed by the other.  What need to happen is people need to voice there opinion's on this site as well as TDHA's site.  We have to go with a way that makes the more people happy.  We are here for the people who care about his dog hunting and if we go against a majority we are cutting are legs off.  A vote has not been passed on any one way or the other at this point but the vast majority as against Barr's, and like i stated that is from more people in east texas that don't want to allow them then ones that are voicing there opinions on here. 

A general comment and not meant to any of ya'll but people love to complain after the fact but surely never want to say anything when given the oppurtunity before hand.  This is your oppurtunity.  Mike and Chance you have voiced your opinion and that's all you can do.  Encourange others to join you if they feel the same. 

Why don't one of Yall start a  new topic as a poll and see which one gets the most votes. ???

I'll voice it for our team and Rocking O team who has placed 2nd these last few years with big Barrs strings. People will probably take this the wrong way, but the majority of hog hunters I know that still practice barring hogs and hunt the TDHA and others contests every year arnt "Internet hog hunters." They are dog men who are still trying to actually preserve the sport through breeding the right dogs and workings stock daily. I will try and get more to create an account and voice their opinion on here.

To me by allowing there to be no Barrs you are taking the competition away from the DOGS!!! Tell me how can the dogs tell a difference??? thats right, they are out their doing their job finding a hog. may it be a sow, boar, or barr. that dog still did its job, but because of people complaining; the competition is now about men and their hurt feelings over having no barrs to hunt. They are the main reason we are here, to  further the sport of "working dogs"

By outlawing Barrs you are making this more of a competition driven by the hogs and not the dogs

Thank you Tshelly. 

I'm not saying you or anyone did but before it gets to that, please don't refer to me as the one who makes the final decision.  I personally beleive there is a happy medium but i am one voice on a board.  Don't think of me personally doing right or wrong.  i am just here to listen and make your voice known. 

 lol yessir I know you are only on the board and simply will be a voice. we are glad you are listening to both sides. It will be good by us either way TDHA decides. Thank you for you assistance. You are doing a great job

Im for barrs. I don't catch but 2 or 3 a year if that many but if i catch one for a tournament then i want to use it. If i have a stringer of boars that gets beat by barrs then so be it. I'll shake their hands and tell them good job and I'll get you next time. Some people believe that when you make a barr that he will not travel and will stay on a 500 acre place. A barr will travel more than a boar because he is not tied to the sows and following them around. A barr follows food sources. We caught a barr that was over 20 miles from where he orginally started. I know this because he had a green ear tag in his ear and i know who tags with green ear tags and turns all of them out on his own place after he barrs them and worms them.

Im for the Barrs. If the dogs catch a boar or barr they got the job done, and the hog should be allowed. It may take someone half the day to get their dog to stop a hog then get there and see the hog is a barr so it cant be used, thats not right.

X 2

It would suck to have a "X"hr or more race etc only to catch a hog that does not count.

Come on people stand up and post we need all the people to say what they want.

Just add a Barr category for 3 biggest Barrs and keep the most hogs caught to hogs that are completely intact. Seems like the only logical solution to me. I understand both sides, but catching and releasing hogs is unethical and probably illegal is some places since they do compete with native wildlife for the same food resources. With that being said I don't know how it would be wise for the TDHA or anyone else to allow them to be entered into contests that pay out money and prizes. This would only perpetuate the practice of barring hogs and turning them loose for hunting comps. Doesn't seem like a very good idea to allow them in the main category, but that is just my opinion and not to be taken offense too.

Joey

Come on do you people really think the only reason we barr a hog is to use in a tournament? Ever since i started catching hogs we cut the boars and killed the barrs. I would hate that a join a HOG HUNTING tournament and chased a barr hog all day long got dog wrecked and then caught the hog and he could not be used because someone months or years before cut him. Thats not fair to me or my dogs.

No, I don't think it is the only reason, but maybe you should have a place to hunt for tournaments that you don't Barr hogs on. Look at it from my perspective: someone goes out and works hogs by barring them and marking them then that should be a hog working comp not a hog hunting comp. I do realize that people's areas overlap that they hunt and you could inadvertently catch a Barr and that is why they need a compromise. I personally do not care if there is a Barr or few in stringer, but if the stringer is half or more big Barrs, then in my eyes that is stacking the scales and no different than feeding out hogs to have an advantage over the folks who hunt hogs to enjoy dog work and help the native wildlife and farmers in the process.

If that doesn't make sense then please explain to me the purpose of a hog hunt? Because I am under the impression that it is put on in part to help control the hog population ( reduce the damage they cause) raise monies for great causes, and promote hunting with dogs. Or is it a Livestock Show like the fair ?

i dont barr hogs cause every one i catch we sale it. i dont understand why yall barr them either , its like going out and working cattle doctoring , branding , ect. every aere iv hunted in tx has big boar and sows .  if you have a 1500 acre place and you have been working hogs on there for 10 yrs then there would be some sure enough big barrs.   why dont they have 2 stringers of hogs , boars and sows and then 5 barrs, split the differents. why is this not a pre-caught hog and released to be caught again , iv heard it from several different hog men , that is why they cut and release to catch bigger hogs.

Monty you can catch and release boars and sows to. Barrs are just identifyable. 

I also have one place I can not turn hogs loose I catch alot of barrs out of there and I did not cut any of them. There again no need for us to enter the competition if our dogs get on barrs and we get dogs cut up or run them in the ground chasing a Barr we just waisted our money entertaining the contest.

cward, im stupid when it comes to number 2 like this, cause its like you told me the day i met you, im a hunter and i hunt different, and you were taught by cowboys . we still catch hogs just 2 different ways , good luck my friend

I'm sure that we have all "wasted" more money hunting for fun and farmers, on gas, dogs, equipment, and etc. than we ever will entering contests. Just sayin......
Anthony

All im saying is that if my dogs catch a Barr HOG while in a HOG hunting tournament it should be allowed as long as you take and pass the lie detector test. 

Monty I never said you were stupid never came out of my mouth I was taught by cowboys. These guys hunted barrs. A hog is a hog when competition hunting. But never said you were stupid at all. So I hope you did not think I was calling you stupid

Matt, that's not true. I was TDHA BOD for a couple of years. Several very good friends were founding members and heavily involved with TDHA before and after I left. The only issue we had was people cheating, we brought in the polygraph the following year.

Barr hogs were never an issue.

The original intent for the TDHA hunt was to feed the hungry... hopefully it goes back to that this year.

The only reason all this is brought up now, is because Texas J wants the contests to conform to "his" rules. Well, I'm sorry, but Texas J needs to model his program around the existing contest rules that have been in place and working fine for years.

Please explain to me how having barrs in the stringer doesn't accomplish this?

If this would diminish the turnout for a comp then I say lets just let it ride and allow them in a stringer as long as they pass the lie detector then no harm no foul. After all the main objective of a hunt is to raise money to help the TDHA and LSDHA, etc. raise money to fight for all of our rights and also many hunts raise money for charity and that is the most important thing in my mind.  I think we can all agree on that ?

sorry mike i should not i was not around then and i am going only by what i am told. 

Exactly Joey... if hogs are caught fair and square and you can pass the polygraph, there should be no issue.

X 3 Joey this is correct.  We have never cheated and never will.

I think I spelled it out pretty cut and dry. Once they have been altered then they are not a truly wild animal anymore. Their behavior changes to reflect that of a more domesticated animal, like steers. Therefore you are gathering livestock not hunting technically speaking, but that is only my opinion and I certainly do not want great dog men and hunters to not enter a competition that benefits everyone because of the rule of "No Barr Hogs" especially since it is a legal practice. Now here in Louisiana I am going to push for only 1 barr per 5 hogs to be allowed if any for hunting comps because it is illegal and unethical here to do so and we certainly don't want to end up with the hog problems Texas has!;)

me as matt and not a tdha BOD what are you people so scared of.  i am getting pms left and right on tdha of people who dont want to vote.  what is the deal.  speak your opinion we are all entitled to one.  

look i am not for barr's in general but i am for compromise but i can bet you Chance, Mike and whoever else disagrees with me can still be friends or at least not hate each other over an opinion  

its like some of the friends i have that moan and grown about our president elect but didnt vote..

I will see you fellas at the Randy Bumpur's. all this talk has got me fired up to start getting dogs tuned up for another exhausting and grueling weekend of catching Swine in God's Country!

cward i didnt mean you called me stupid you never said that and we talked hunting styles and you taught me something that day and i thank you,
i meant when it comes to the barring hogs and releasing them im stupid cause nobody has showed me how or told me why they really do it, the guys i hunt with catch ty and sale thats how i was taught,   but sorry i was not saying u called me stupid or anything like that , see me being stupid,lol
excuse me if i dont sound right i just got out of surgerie today, cward hope we still can be friends dont mean anything and im getting out of this subject cause im way out of the barr deal

I'm not questioning what your opinion is, you have made it clear what you think. I couldn't disagree more but that arument is for another discussion.

You stated that you thought the tournaments were put on to "help control the hog population" by turning in barrs would we not be accomplishing this?

Also, we would be participating in the competition and therefore helping raise money for great causes.

and lastly we would be removing these wild hogs with dogs so would we not be promoting hunting with dogs?

Boarwild you ask for input, but you have made it clear you only want input from comp hunters.

Barring hogs is a regional practice. Its not done everywhere in the state some folks think its a great idea and others not so much.

With that in mind, I would think that a contest, that will draw teams from areas that contain barred hogs, should allow barrs in the stringer.

The team really can't help it if they catch a barr. One team may barr hogs on a consistent basis and another team might never do it, but they both could catch one. That is what levels the playing field along with a polygraph to ensure that ANY hog, barr, boar, or sow was not: moved, kept, or held in less than a free range condition for the contest.

Each contest has a set of rules. Each set of rules is different based on the location and how the contest is run. I don't see a problem with one contest allowing barrs and another contest not allowing them. Its the same as some of the other rules being different.

I am a big supporter of the HDTT, Josh has come up with a great idea and has really done a great job setting it up. I hope maybe that he will consider allowing each contest to make the decision on the barrs. Some will have them some will not. The three hog stringer can be the constant through out the separate contests.

We, as hunters and dog-men need to work well together and support each other. We need to support the contests and support the groups that are putting them on.

I will support Josh and the HDTT what ever he descides to do, I am just offering my thoughts.

Thanks,
Paul T

I personally think barrs should be allowed. Barrs are in our hunting area so we hunt them.

If they ban barrs then they need to ban them big toothy rock eating Russian boars from the hill country because we dont have those in our piney woods and it just aint fair.  ;D

I say let em weigh in barrs! I have a feeling the only folks complaining about barr hogs at these contest are the ones that aint catching them.  ;)

The best hog hunters Ive ever known barr hogs and they do it for good reason! Good eating! That simple. The odd thing is that they don't have hog problems either. Lots of days they have to ride far and wide to pick up a track in their country. Go figure.
jhy.......THANKS!!!! Really! Your opinion gave me one of the best belly laughs Ive had in a long time! Keep em coming buddy!
Fatboy......... If you are serving boar hog at your hog roast please let me know. I will pack a sack lunch!  ;)

Long before hunting hogs was such a noble cause, hog hunters barred hogs for better table fare and to get the most out of their efforts. I suspect the practice will be around longer than hog hunting contest and pro wrestling.

Paul T. I couldnt agree with you more that barring hogs is a regional practice. You folks that aint in a position to barr your hogs need to get a handle on your hog population. I have a feeling its getting out of hand!  ;D

long time no see ninja.

And the ninja is alive. He has spoke don't be ninja nobody that don't need to be ninja. Boy im telling you the phone calls and text im getting over this is crazy. Some of these boys are ready to fight.lol they are mad there again if these rules stand they are separating us as one. I think its good advertising for the tdha if nothing else cause people are asking who are making these rules. Im explaining to them that tears of trails has made his rule and stands behind it. That the tdha has not made the ruling but would like to know where the people stand. The polls are showing it as of now. Thanks for jumping in this race boarninja. We sure needed your opinion as I respect it highly

Much appreciated even if not deserved Chance. Work has kept my internet hog hunting in hiatus but I still think about it and have a peek at the board from time to time. I expected to see folks still threatening to track down and whip hell out of the infamous dog trader Caude Ard but discrimination of  a wise ole barr hogs gets me rialled.  ;D
I would tell you a story or two about some legendary barr hogs thats give me and my dogs the slip many a time but I would have to tell you the story about a hog hunter with better dogs that ended up catching them! lol. Livestock my arse! They make up in in brains what they may ( or may not ) lack in fight!  But thats just my humble opinion.

How do I change my name to BarrNinja Mike?  popo

 

Barrninja I like it.!!! Whats funny is out of all the bitching gripping we have done I think that Boarwild is the only one listening from the tdha. Thank Boarwild for your care and concerns. I don't know how to guide the rest of the tdha board members over to see what is going on and how many toes they are stepping on to change this rule. I know all that are speaking have been supporters. Even the Barrninja. Hey Allen that saved in my spell check I like it.lol

I promised to listen and yes here I am up later then I ever am still watching and reading and typing. All I ask is give us some time. I am trying to bring all I can as fast as I can to the table.

On top of that I'm not a good Internet hog hunter. Oh heck what am I saying I'm not a good hog hunter at all.

Cward,

The last dead hunt had I think around 70 teams, what do you think the percentage was of those teams that were hunting Barrs?

Anthony

I have looked at/inspected every hog weighed in at the TDHA contest for the last 4 years. Very few barrs come through the weigh-in. Only a hand full every year. Its a non issue.

That's exactly right. Don't ban em and don't allow a full stringer of them. Compromise.

I think everyone who puts a dog on the ground could catch a Barr and if they do after he wrecks there dogs or they spend a half a day trying to get him caught they would be pissed if he didn't count. The place we hunted last year no one works hogs in there we tagged in one Barr that ran over a mile we got all the buggies stuck and he cut one of my dogs down out of commission.  I think he weighed255 not a huge hog but after all that work he atleast counted.

Alan,

 I fixed it for you. Barrninja

Our point exactly, it's a NON ISSUE, so don't change the rules this year to exclude barrs! A hog, is a hog, is a hog!

Dang.  All this drama has induced me to re catch all the Barrs we have cut and marked through the years.

I am currently sewing the notches back together in their ears and retrofitting them with a new set of titanium balls.  

Guess this piece of tasty Barr sausage I am enjoying tonight with hot yeast biscuits and homeade ribbon cane syrup will get a
man to thinking bout chewing a lil more rank Boar bacon in the future.

Think I will just keep making nasty ole Bo hogs into tasty swine sweets!  If it comes down to it. You boyz can keep them tournaments.   Lol ;D

Peace out Home Skillets!  :-*

But I have one more question.  You hunt an area that you have barred a lot of hogs in and you know that is one that you have caught before or say all of them you have caught before and they ask if you used any previously caught hogs.  Do they count as previously caught hogs?  I know this is the grey area and has been covered mostl likely but I woulld like an official word on this one so I can explain it to my folks.

Ninja,

I try my darndest to help us look noble, but there is always some damn fool that will mess it up!:)

I have only had dogs on two Barrs that I know of. I didn't catch either one. One was shot by a deer hunter and weighed over 400. The other is still at large. But I know where he lives. If I hunted competitions ( and I haven't) and someone else weighed one or more in I'd say more power to them. If you have the dogs to catch one go get them! A hog is a hog, and yeah they are bigger but in my limited experience if you catch one you deserve the extra lbs on your stringer. I don't make Barrs and don't hunt competitions so it doesn't matter to me, but that's how I see it. Not that anyone asked me!

Have a few locations that we have caught marked hogs by our hand several times.

Each time we catch them.....they dont come any easier than they did before. So guess my answer would be...nope dont consider that hog in any way to be tame or lesser of an adversary.  

I guess my view on hog hunting is neutral.  HUNT...HOGS...any sex breed or type Hell even caught me a wild pot bellie once.
Tournaments are getting Perty popular with the newly re energized push from all the dang tv shows. But would hate to see a gathering that is ultimately geared for entertainment smear and possibly govern a push for more laws governing the entire sport.

The purpose of TDHA is to protect and preserve our hunting rights. This hunt is the one big event that helps TDHA raise the money to do just that. So with that being said I would hope that all would come out and support TDHA. We are trying to have a level playing field for ALL hunters. There are several hunts that are doing the same. They also recognize that those hunters that cultivate Barr hunting spots are getting a tremendous advantage over the average hunters. We are working hard to put on a great hunt. We have some fantastic  prizes,top notch sponsors ,to go along with a good payout. Lets all pull together and give the organizations that are trying to fight for our hunting rights our support!!

Some people are crazy. Some one pm's my buddy to call him. So my buddy calls, and the guy tells him that he was no one to him. Then told him that he hunts with ,and knows alot of ya'll and he has his own kennel of dogs, custom hunting trailer, and so on. I think that's funny. The funny thing about it. It's all about this post. lol  ; ;D :D ;)

I'll invite anybody to call me and talk about it.  My cell phone number is smeared across everything I do.  I'm not active on this board as much as I use to be or else my screen name would be recognized by more of the newer guys.  But I still know most of the people posting on here.  Some I don't. 

I've been around a long time and hog dogging is a small world.  Hogdown, if you or anyone else would like to get to know me, or give me the opportunity to get to know you, feel free to call me anytime.  I make myself 100% available and 100% visible.

Joshua Gregory
281-380-7023

Can I call you to get a straight answer about my question Texas J?

Joey

Absolutely.

This,post came off pretty harsh and Bryant was correct it was a,bullchit post.

Anytime anyone has ever asked me, I have said that barrs have a place in tournaments.  But in a class of their own.  Not in the stringer, but in a side pot or a jack pot or possible in their own stringer.

I hope that happens for all our sake.

I'm assuming you're new with TDHA?

Barrs have always been allowed in this contest since it started... I was involved in the first few. It was never an issue.

Paul T just stated that he has been involved the past few years... it was a non issue.

Why would you want to change a "well oiled" contest that has been working so well all these years?

Cward. I have a question for you. There are 3 other hunts that are a no Barr stringer, So are u sending Those hunts the same message that you just posted about TDHA? Are you telling them that u would have a hunt their weekend also? If not,why say that to TDHA? Why say that to an organization that is trying to actually protect you right to hunt with your dogs?

Those other contests are new and started out with that rule.

TDHA is the largest in the state... and wants to change their rules after all these years?

TDHA has lost enough support the past few years... they don't need to loose any more.

Mike, no I'm not new to TDHA I was actually around when TDHA was formed. Was one of their first members and was part of group that went to Capital to be heard by our lawmakers. I've been around a long while, been involved in many events, not just dog related. I believe Paul stated in previous post that the Barr issue had been brought up a few times in his tenor with TDHA. This is not a new topic and had been a concern for awhile.

Exactly the polls show and no one will listen. We have strongly supported the tdha. But if you take my Barr finding dogs and separate US then we will separate  we ask you to listen and we get a no. So I can show that we can put on a competition that has barrs and the people can hunt in it the same weekend  I ask for a solid day for someone to listen to the people and still the answer is no. The tdha should have done a poll on this before changing a rule. I will promise the people who are highly upset are supporters that feel like ya'll kicked us Barr Hunter to the curb. I feel that way and they do to. Im standing against the tdha for my dog hunting rights in ya the tdha competition  That is bullchit

I have had tons of text and phone calls on this matter. Just got off the phone with another. This whole deal is making the tdha look bad. Thats not what im out to do. I love that ya'll stand up for our rights I have tdha stickers on all my stuff but tdha is separating us by telling us a Barr want count. We are in Texas by God and there are barrs all over Texas.

I've stayed out of this whole debate, as I can honestly see arguments for both sides...but to be perfectly honest this is the biggest bunch of BS I've read in a long time.  What are you now "threatening" the TDHA because you don't like their rule?  Seriously...

The TDHA hunt has a foremost purpose...and believe it or not it's NOT about the prizes.  The hunt was formed as a fund raiser for TDHA to raise money to defend YOUR and MY right to hunt with dogs.  I don't care if you support their rule or not, you should still support the cause.  If you don't like the rule, don't hunt it...but to say "I can offer a Barr competition with better prizes with no entry fee the same weekend as tdha"....GROW UP!  And besides...if the "barr hogs" were the reason why people would attend YOUR hunt why would you need better prizes and no entry fee?

Hell, maybe I'll have a third hunt that same day.  No barrs, no entry fees and give everyone who hunts a new truck.

You need to slow down a bit and think about what you're saying...

We don't see many Barr hogs in our area... A few of us have started doing a few in the last couple years on places that we can... If we catch it on farm land, we cut and relocate it...

Before we started this, we caught a Barr hog that weighed 300 on the dot... No telling where it came from as not many that I know of in this area Barr them...

If that would have been a contest hunt, it would have been a big blow to us... We had no idea a Barr was around, it took a lot of time to catch him, and took a bulldog out of the hunt...

I say allow barrs...   Heck we havent caught any of the ones we barred, so anyone has a chance at catching them!!!  :D

Bryant im saying the tdha is separateing US from the hunt. That is what im saying I have always stood beside them. By taking the barrs out you take us out. I said it at the beginnin. My point is I want them to listen they are not. We have planned all year to hunt this competition for that weekend and now if we catch barrs they don't count. This a new rule and no one ask to change it. That is the point im trying to get at.  I could lay down and say thats the rule and go on about my business. And the tdha can lay down and let them take away our dog hunting rights. We like barrs in our country and some of us think they should count.

The west Texas hunt whatever the name of it had there tournament the same weekend and allowed high fence hunting did it hurt the tdha yes it did. Mike hunted the millican boys hunted those boys hunt the tdha every year except the last year. Why they were put on the same weekend I don't know. But they were. And it hurts  the competitions. Im a Texas dog Hunter and by saying the barrs don't count you are saying our dogs don't count.

Everyone needs to understand there is no rule at this time.  Our rules have not even been decided at all.  We had to redo them this year being we are going back to a dead hog hunt. 

I want to do right for as many as we can.  I think there is a compromise, but Bryant i totally agree with you about the "hunt the hunt for the cause."  We lost a lot of people due to the live hog hunt which is understandable.  Many people just can't do that sort of contest.  We went from 77 teams in 2011 to 44 in 2012.  There should be no reason why we should have any less then that this year.  Other contest have changed there dates to support TDHA which is a big step in the right direction.  I don't think enough people understand how not fun it is to be on a board..  We are here for all hog, coon, bird, squirrel and whatever else sort of hunting dog there is out there.  This hunt is meant to raise money for us to do so, and in some way either by food or money to feed the hungry. 

Whatever rule does come up i do hope many people do show up!  Thanks for all the comments and votes.  This is a great place with this many people but if you get a chance please go over to TDHA websites to discuss your thoughts as well. 

Let me refrase what im getting At about having another competition than tdha. If the barrs do not count then the Barr hunters need to find competition that allow them. Witch separates us a one. That I guess,is my point. When typing it sounds alittle harsh than if you were talking to me on the phone. Ya'll could see im not trying to nbe an ass. Im trying to keep us from being separated.

OK, I've tried to read all the post and I'm trying to be open minded about this topic. It seems as though hairs are being split here. I understand that in many areas the barring of hogs is taboo and carries many repercussions for any caught practicing the act. However, that rule does not stand for all nor should it penalize those of us who have access to these animals. Simply put a hog is a hog is a hog. The absence of testicles should not make a barr any less acceptable than a boar or sow; my  dogs work just as hard to find and catch them, and they still add lots of pounds of meat to these competitions that feed the hungry which is one of our main goals at the end of the day.

I honestly haven't seen a VALID argument for the removal of barrs from the competition. All I really see so far are complaints that not all have access to the added weight a barr may or may not offer to their stringer. For ,me  this simply is not a persuasive enough argument to  decide that removing barrs from competitions is worth while. To do so would be the equivalent of Bassmasters refusing all female bass from weigh-in because they may have eggs in them which adds unfair weight to a fisherman's total.

If there are those who feel barrs are that unfair to the competitions, then my suggestion is this, set a separate category for the barrs and let those of us who have access to them compete with one another at least.

I'm also sticking to my guns and demanding that no listed hogs be allowed for weigh in on the stringer and all spotted hogs get 5lbs deducted.

Everybody knows that anyone who brings in a listed hog obviously bred a feral to a domestic and put them in a "honey hole"  that and we don't catch hardly any listed hogs where I'm from so I think that my demand to have them not count is valid and I demand to be heard!!!

I also think that hunting places with feeders make it unfair for me... 
Those hogs are being baited in, and they know exactly where the hogs will be...
I have to hunt "wild" hogs that have to travel and forage for their food, not lay 100 yards from a feeder getting fat...

Point being, your never going to please everyone, and if the barrs are banned, it will just be something else next year....

More than likely, the team with the best places to hunt with the most hogs has the best shot at winning, even if they don't have the best dogs....

You can bring the best dogs and hunt my spots for the tournaments, and I guarantee you will NOT win!!!

Amen!

Ban the barrs this year, and next year it will be feedyards, feeders, and blooded hogs.

This isn't soccer.... it's hog dogging.

It's hog hunting, not rocket science or brain surgery. You do not need a bunch of rules and regulations. Over regulating it will hurt it more than under regulating it. You can see what over regulating by the Govt. has done to manufacturing businesses in the real world.

Just make it simple and do what's right for the events and the charities they provide to and money they raise for the organizations that fight for our rights. Even though I am in Louisiana, Texas is out neighbor and what happens there will certainly effect us and vice versa. I go to these hunts to win, but I am satisfied with the fact that we are supporting a great cause. I also need to remind you folks that have never put on a hunt or any type of dog event that this is a very stressful process and the more these folks that put these things on see threads like this then they may just decide to not do it at all. It is impossible to make everyone happy, but the polygraph is the best way to enforce the rules and keep the comp fair as possible.

Just keep the Barrs in the rules and lets have a great tournament season this year. If you don't have Barrs where you hunt then try to go after one of the other categories or find places where there are Barrs. Last comp I hunted with my buddies in Buffalo, Tx. We didn't bait, scout or catch any Barrs and we caught 28 hogs and brought in 26 to weigh in. Of course we passed polygraph and folks were saying we cheated because some of the hogs just weren't completely torn up or didn't have teeth marks on their ears. They never thought that I may use jaw dogs or that the bulldogs were so worn out that they just were holding on hard enough to get the job done and not snatching and shaking like a fresh bulldog would. This type of behavior is unsportsmanlike and makes it not an enjoyable win for the team and makes things hard for the host, so I strongly urge those who participate to except the results of the polygraph and not give any grief to the host or winners.

Joey

Imo the people complaining about barrs are just jealous bc they dont have the big hogs and/or dogs to compete with. At the end of the day if they ban barrs and they still dont win they will just blame it on something else

Heck take 10lbs. off every 100lbs. on a barr if yall are worried that they get to BIG but just dont say NO barrs. Let come to some kind of comprise.

A hog is a hog u should allow them, But if ur gonna make a rule about it dont make it where they r completely Banned jus make it to where u can only have so many on ur stringer. Like a stringer of 5 u can only consist of 2r3 Barrs Biggers stringers would allow more Barrs of course ... u may chase a hog all night and end up Bein a Barr and now you've waisted half the tournament chasing a hog that dont even count..

Go ahead and ban barrs.  Then give a green ribbon to all those that enter and call everyone a winner!    That evens the playing field!    Isn't that the politely correct way to do things in our soft society,  so we will only have winners for participating and have no losers!!   I am sure glad there are a few who will still stand up for what they believe!

That is pretty damn funny, and sadly true!!!

Jody, green ribbons are for fifth place. The white ones are for participation ! :o ;D

I was going to paint a Barr hog on my picket sign for the strike but the hog hunting union said no Barr pictures allowed  :D

Thanks for point that out Lance!   That is my point!   Who gives a $hit if they are green, or white!   If one desires to  compete, they should be chasing blue or red!    Not white, green, pink, orange.  Some win some will loose that's life.... It's not white or green...

what so many are not understanding (and before you come back at me i am on your side of allowing barr hogs in some manner in our hunt and i am BOD of TDHA) is so many people think Green is not white.  to many a cut pig is an altered pig and in many minds not a natural wild animal.  Some say they have proven they don't run as far or they don't care to fight or you can patteren them better and some say exact opposite.  Some say east texas is harder to hunt some say south, blah blah blah.  It's all an opinion that everyone is entitled too.   

At the end of the day its an opinion that everyone is entitled to. There is so many things going on in the world in regards to this that begs the question of what is natural and what is not.  Cloning is one of them.  We as humans are changing nature to satisfy our needs. 

I am not for barring animals and i am not against people who barr animals.  it's your (as of now) God given right to do so, and its your (as of now) God given right to hunt hogs with dogs.  Will that change soon?  who knows its possible. 

We are going to do whatever we can to COMPROMISE, and make as many people happy as we can for the TDHA hunt.  If you think it is easy to sit on a TDHA's board or any board for that matter PLEASE run for office next year.   ;D

Boarwild, thank you for all you and the rest of the board do to help us and for protecting our rights. Your job which is voluntary and uncompensated is not one I would want. I'm sure it is capable of giving a person a few more gray hairs.

Thanks again Boarwild as I called the animal health commission this morning he said it is not illegal to release hogs on the place they have been cut. It is to haul the hog from one destination to another and release them without being tested   I think this should bring up a good point nothing is illegal about a Barr. As i told him the reason for asking the question he had a good point.
First it helps feed the hungry and barrs are more food and better.
Next The state likes the hogs removed so by the tdha saying no barrs or whatever contest will mean the barrs will more than likely be released back into the wild if not needed at the time. Those were his points of views and I thought they were good ones.

My question is now after reading all the posts does it take a better dog to catch barrs because I keep reading in these post saying that people don't have the dogs to catch barrs. Just curious because I have been hunting with dogs since I was a kid and I nor anyone else I know that hunts have certain dogs for boars,sows, or barrs I thought a hog dog would run any hog

This is why they should allow a barr HOG bc a HOG DOG will run any HOG!

Good post, we need to remember what TDHA is here for and support accordingly. It's an association to help dog hunters.

This may not mean much but here are my thoughts on how the rules should be laid out to give all hunters around Texas a chance. I do thank people are starting to not hunt these contests as much anymore bc they know how hard it is to catch 5 big hogs in 2 days. People who place or win this every do so by hunting feed lots and places where they barr. Its hard for the avg dog man to compare to these places. Saying that here are rules that would level it out for everybody. You will have alot more teams enter and the weigh in will alot more exciting because of how close it will be.

-3 HOG WEIGH IN
-ONLY 1 CAN BE A BARR
-DEAD HOGS ONLY
-SIDE POTS FOR  LONGEST TUSK(BOAR ONLY), BIG BARR, BIG SOW AND MOST IN STRINGER.

What is everyone's thoughts???
PROS
- Easier on teams to not drag and gut 5 hogs
- Level playing field (Everyone has a chance)
- Can still catch a barr and only need 2 more hogs
-You would not have to travel from place to place as much to find 5 big hogs compared to 3...
-Less hogs means less stress on the TDHA, workers and contestants involved
CONS
- Not as many hogs to donate but you should make up for that bc more teams will show up
-??


I think the thing that is hardest for everyone is looking at the goal of this hunt. That is to get as many teams as you can to hunt so we can raise money to fight for our rights as hunters. I bet if you look back at every years top 10 teams since the TDHA has started this hunt most are the same 10 teams in some way shape or form compete for the money every year....Most of people talking about barrs here will be in the top 10 teams of the contest...I bet the avg hunter can count on his hands and toes how many pigs that will field dress 200 in a year. Let alone catch 5 in 2 days to compete...I didn't hunt TDHA last year because I knew who was hunting and where they where hunting. I'm not going to donate 400 dollars and time to see them take 1-6 places. Which most of the teams I thought would did...Thats whats happening with people and takes away from TDHAs goal. SO THE QUESTION IS...HOW TO WE MAKE IT WHERE EVERYONE IS HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY AND GIVES EVERYONE A CHANCE???? I think 3 hogs and only one can be a barr...Just my 2 cents..

I like the idea Chad, thanks

How many of the top 10 teams in all the years if the contest have weighed in barr hogs?

Very few.

If I hunt around the clock for two days and happen to only catch 2 or 3 barrs, it's not fair that they shouldn't be allowed.

Hogs are hogs fellas.

By that logic, horses are horses, but I haven't seen to many good colts out of a gelding. Lol. J/k

On a more serious note, this topic is still under discussion with the board.
Anthony

By that logic, I have'nt seen it either Anthony. But I have seen geldings that were alot wilder and harder to break than any stud horse I've ever rode and I've rode a few. Lol. J/K

On a more serious note, all of the what ifs' and what fors' are getting old for both sides. Just let us know when yall make a decision.

I want to say this again so there is no misunderstanding.

The problem we have here has nothing at all to do with how hard or easy it is to catch a barr. This has nothing to do with the history and heritage of barring hogs. It has everything to do with teams trying to skirt the rules or outright cheat.

The barr issue has just got tangled up in the discussion.

The problem is with barrs, boars, and/or sows being "moved". Any movement and releasing of any feral hog is against the law, no question about that.

Therefore anyone who "moves" hogs to sweeten up a place for a contest, free range or not, is in violation of the law and those teams are not going to pass a polygraph.

 

Lol, I can definitely agree with that one, been on a few myself. But mean or not, they are still different. And I'm with you in a way, because the what if's could go on forever. Nothing is certain until the rules are voted on and put out there, and hopefully when that happens our true supporters will still be there to support the cause.
Anthony

Would not be any different if I hunted around the clock only to catch 3 pigs 100 pounds...You wouldn't even weigh them in bc you know you dont have a shot.....We could go round and round about different scenarios....

Mike,  You might be right but I think you would be surprised. At least the last 2 years. I know of  1 in the top 6 this year and I hunted with the same guys 2 years ago and got third. Would been interesting to hear what guys weighed in more then 1 barr and where they placed in the last few years......I would like to be proven wrong about my theory bc its only a theory.....

I'm all for barrs myself but still think it should be a 3 hog stringer...I just want to even the playing field on all sides and objectives...Not for me but for the cause....That way more teams will enter and the TDHA will have more funds to fight for our rights...Look forward to hearing ideas on how...Just my thoughts..

We weighed in 4 barrs 3 years ago and did not even place my gator dog got killed in the act.  These barrs we caught were not cut by me or anyone I knew.

This is the best post on the subject yet!!!

 I had a long talk today with another tournament holder today who is doing the no barr thang in his tournament this year. He asked me what I thought about the no barr rule. I basically said I feel he and others are discriminating against us piney woods hunters. The reason I feel this way is I hunt in MY area and in MY area people have been barring hogs for years so I might catch a barr or two and for it to be banned just aint right. Another reason I gave is that in the piney woods our boars simply do not grow to the size as boars in farm lands or feed lots where food is no problem. I may be wrong on the last statement but I do not think so, I have hunted quite a few different areas and this is for sure been the case. I have yet to see a boar over 250-260 be taken from our woods. The other statement I made was that our area just does not have the number of hogs that others have..We have hunted for weeks at a time and never get on a hog. I told him just exactly what silverton said above, that sows and boars could be relocated just the same as barrs.  these tournaments that are going to ban barrs are taking the only thing that makes us competitive away from us. I will step down from my soap box now. ;)

there are enough rules in the world as it is.. lets just enforce the rules that already in place and have been working for years already.

Chance,

Thanks for the feedback on my theory. If you dont mind me asking did you or your wifes team hunt the last 2 years. If so how did you do?

The way I understand it, and from all I've read, it seems those who have been vocal opponents of the no-Barr rule are opposed simply due to the fact should they randomly catch a Barr hog it should be counted.  I believe the purpose of the rule is strictly to keep teams from stacking the odds and to promote a more even playing field.

With that being said, perhaps here's a solution.

Allow Barr hogs, and treat them just as any other hog in the stringer....basically one or all.

However, in the polygraph test ask the following question:

"Did you, your teammates, or anyone else knowingly release or relocate feral hogs in preparation for your teams participation in this competition?"

I think that would cut out all the BS of what the "no-Barr" rule is trying to accomplish, but still allow those randomly caught Barr hogs to count.

Thoughts?

Bryant, I 100% agree... that's the point I believe everyone is trying to make.

I somewhat agree with your question bryant..
I think the release part of the question would trip me up. lol It is illegal to relocate a hog but not to release, at least that is what i have heard.
This would be no different than someone pre fishing before a bass tournament and then throwing the lunker back in the lake after catching it hoping he might catch it latter.

I like it bryant..Im all for barrs myself..I just cant get a 3 hog weigh in out of my head...Haha

Except pre-fishing (at least usually up until a certain time) is within the rules.  Bringing hogs to weigh in that have been previously caught prior to tournament hours is not.

Notice I said in the question "in preparation for your teams participation."

If a person practices barring of hogs solely because that's the way they were taught to hunt (as has been previously stated) then the polygraph question would be a non-issue.

Now if someone is cutting hogs for competitions sake, watch out.  In that case, what would be the difference in catching boars, cutting a leg off and turning them back loose making them easier to catch again.  Hypothetical, but I think you understand my point.

It might also be beneficial for some to look up and read the publication put out by the Texas Animal Health Commission a couple years back regarding the movement of feral swine.  I'll try to find it and post a link.

The way I understand, movement (as referred to by the commission) is that it begins from the point of capture.  In other words when you take a hog out of a trap, that is deemed movement.  It has nothing to do with going 30 miles down the road (although that would also be defined as movement).  According to the publication, the only lawful movement is directly to slaughter, to a licensed holding facility, or a licensed hunting preserve.  I can find no where that either affirms or denies that releasing a caught hog (even at the actual location of capture) is lawful.

Bryant I talked with the animal health commission and it is not illegal to Barr on spot. There lawyer talked to Texasj and said the same thing it is not illegal. It is to transport them and release without being tested.

I understand your point but in preparation has no time limit. I or any of the people i hunt with could have cut a boar years ago and released it. The only reason for releasing any hog is to some day catch it again. I see it as no different than catch and release in fishing. I guess i will just agree to disagree. ;) ohh well

I think the fix to the problem is to make sure the right questions are ask on the polygraph test. No rule change.

x2

Cward, what did your girls weigh in last year and place? How many barr hogs?

One Barr at 255 one boar at 310. 10 th place .  The Barr ran over a mile cost us a cut up dog and we spent half the night getting to them.

Oh and that 310 lb boar was caught with a Jack Russell. ;D

Never said anything about them being harder, which i don't believe that they are any worse than a 200 pound boar.  I'm not against barrs being in this but since ive been making money off hogs for 14 15 years ive caught one hand full that reached 400.  I see post all the time with 400 pound barrs which maybe there lying on weight but thats what is posted. I weigh mine alive and if i want one to put in the freezer i put 100 pd sow.  

You guys don't have buyers in your local area do you?  1, 2, 3, barrs don't bother me but when you weigh in 5 barrs in 2 days of hunting in a contest, that isn't fair.  WHen i catch 15 in a weekend of hunting and i can barely turn in 5 boars...  Ive got hogs and i manage my hogs VERY well, ask anyone that has hunted in my area but i also am fortunate to have buyers within 15minutes of all my places so i'm not kicking a 200 or 300 pd boar back when i cn run and get 150 175 for dog food money.  

I can tell you i have recently started turning cut hogs/barrs out to compete with you guys in the years to come so keep the barrs or not, doesn't matter to me.

I remember hearing the story from all the girls on the team!  Girls catching them rank barr hogs to boot!  ;)

If there is a buying station close by i dont know about it. But if there was i would do the same thing you do but since there isnt one that i know about i will keep cutting them and eatting the ones i catch later.  ;)

I have two buyers that take barrs and all from me 20 minutes away everything goes across a live scale. One of the buyers has been buying for over 20 years said that he has had 5 hogs go over 400 one being a boar that I brought him . The hog was caught out of a milk pond literally . I will take him hogs when we do removals only.

I have bought alot of domestic hogs and set in a ton of sales. There market is only barrs and sows. A domestic boar over 200 pounds is not worth nothing. Seen a 655 pound boar sale for 1 cent a pound the other day that was $6.55 seen a 550 pound Barr sale for .32 cents a pound. Every bit of the pork you eat out of the store comes off a Barr or a sow.