EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have been emailing with a guy in a place called three rivers, TX.  He hunts hogs around some big lake. he says he uses only Rhodesian ridge backs. He bays and shoots hogs with one dog or uses two dogs to strike an catch.  One dog will strike and catch smaller hogs, "there nose will find hogs other dogs miss" . He says he has never run into a hog that both dogs together couldn't bring down. He sells them too!  Is there someone who has some experience with ridgebacks that can say if this is accurate for the usual ridgeback hunter.

Truth for the most part. Any Ridgeback that bays is a cull. The dog was breed to bring down big game and was a very good breed until some idiot started selective breed for hunting Lions and changed things forever. This is my Ridgeback imported from Africa on a nice boar that would test most dogs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzsvgMcUxiU&feature=channel_page

I am impressed with your dog how old of dog is it. Being from Africa is it more prey driven than a ridgeback I could get here. Are there specialty breeders for hunting ridgebacks in the US.

Hey smwilson. I've hunted over Ridgebacks in more than 10 different states in the US from Florida to Minnesota, I have also hunted over Ridgebacks in both Sweden and Germany, on game ranging from quail to moose. I've worked over Ridgebacks of American breeding, Canadian breeding, eastern European breeding, western european breeding, even dogs imported directly from Kruger Park breedings in South Africa.

Just you know, the guy L3 was talking about is Cornelious Van Rooyen. He was followed by hunters like Hubert Tremelett, Jock Flemming, Bill Masey, Furgeson Chance, Jan du Preez, and Francis Barnes, to name just a few. Far from being an idiot, he was a good friend of Selous and Upcher, and was regarded as one of the great white hunters of his day. He a developed a type of ridged cur dog that eventually would become known as the "Rhodesian Ridgeback". He bred bay dogs for a reason, and it wasn't because he was an idiot, it was because he bred the best of the survivors.

If you want to learn the real, factual and honest truth about the early hunting history of the breed, buy yourself a copy of the "Pioneers" book, by Costa.

http://www.kantara.com.au/pioneers/index.htm

Many Ridgebacks can be mindlessly gritty/catchy, a precious few are smart enough to back up and bay solid. There are other breeds out there that make better catch dogs, and other breeds that make better bay dogs. What they bring to the hunt that few others can is an impressive combination of nose and speed. So if you need a catch dog or a bay dog that has a decent nose and can cover ground lightning fast, then a Ridgeback might be a good bet if... but only if you buy from a breeder producing what you are looking for.

While you're waiting for the pioneers book to show up in the mail, check out these websites and learn the truth about this breed for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback#Classification_conundrum

http://thehra.com/fromthefield/

http://www.rhodesianridgeback.org.za/

http://www.boardogs.com/Boardogs_Ridgebacks.htm

http://www.rrcus.org/club/breedinfo/history.htm

The one and only thing that I can find wronge with a rr is that they are slow to mature when full blood.  I have one that is a year old and a couple of days and is the biggest pup you have ever seen lol but I really like everything else about them. 

I dont know anyone that would buy a ridgeback that bays.

 I don't know about the history but I got one that will hunt find a hog catch the hog and roll out to the next ! He does find some hogs others dont because he winds really well as where a track will go flying by so I assume others can to. I have caught pigs other 300 with just him.  That's what I know about my dog I didn't train him rockin roo and rowdy had him before me. Hope it helps

Well, it's hard to say nosight... I guess I would be curious if they are being hunted by rifle hunters or knife/hog-tie hunters?

Don't get me the wrong way fellas, I'm not trying to put down good catch dogs. Lord knows we need them! If your Ridgeback is catchy, and that's what you want it to do, more power to you... catch'em up son!

But from a historical perspective, a breed purist will want a bay dog. When thinking about the Ridgeback it's important to keep in the back of your mind that for almost the first 30 years that the Ridgeback was recognized by the Kennel Union of South Africa, they were classified as Gun dogs. That's how they were used... they were developed and used by rifle hunters. As rifle hunters they needed bay dogs. If you look back to the wikipedia article I mentioned above, you will find a good historical account that explains this:

Phyllis Archdale who went to Rhodesia in 1919 and bred Ridgebacks there in the 1920s, "Old timers told me that in early days most Dutch transport riders had a Ridgehound as guard to their wagons. They were used to bail up lion and wild pig. Mine did both..."

I would like to find a good Ridgeback male that hunted  out some, had a good winding nose and was gritty, but not a straight out catch dog. I would breed one of my curs to him and see what I got. I had a dog a long time ago that was cur and Ridgeback. She was a decent dog but bad to fight another dog. I used her on both cattle and hogs.

Problem I have seen with Ridgebacks in the US is, most are too big for what I want (most males are over 100 lbs) and are bred for the show ring, so I don't know about their hunting ability.
I like a 50-60 lb dog myself.

what im saying is that the people i know in TEXAS that just hunt pigs with dogs would not have a ridgeback bay dog the same goes for a Dogo that bays. Regardless the history I just dont think they would fit the bill.  If iam wrong and some one on here has a Ridgeback bay dog. explain to me why. why would you have a ridgeback or a dogo baydog. the only thing that comes to mind is cull. I may not be an expert on the subject but unless you run a true pack OF RIDGEBACKS having A RIDGEBACK BAY doesnt make sense

Mccoy,
Are you still selling your ridgebacks?

I decided to keep Bo and the rest are gone where I currently live it was just gettin to
be a problem.

If the above statement is true, then that is a perfectly good reason to have a RR that bays.

u know it all comes back to each dog I had some that would bay a be rough then catch with other dog some all catch everyone I had were very fast good stanima. I ain't sayin they will always find a pig that others won't but enough to notice but that happen all the time in all breeds I had a bulldog that if a pig was within a hundred yards she'd find it. I like the ridgebacks but like every breed they have their up and downs.  And usually when someone is sellling something u will here nothing but the up.

Yepper do crackerrc!!! The early rhodesians in the northern provinces (the ones that were actually hunting their dogs) almost always bred their dogs towards the bottom of the standard size, some even below what is now standard size. (25" or less for dogs) As the show breeders have held more and more sway, slowly but surely the dogs have gotten bigger and bigger, especially here in the U.S

Here is a picture of some green dogs in South Carolina after we had worked them in the bay pen for the first time on hogs and bear a few days before:

(http://waarheidridgebacks.com/misc/size_is_relative.jpg)

The dog bred from working stock in South Africa was also the smallest in the bunch... smaller than the American and canadian dogs around him, even the females. It may or may not be coincedental that he had the best and most natural instictive repsonse to the hogs. In this breed, bigger is definately not always better.

I would also agree with Purebreed and Mccoy... Ridgebacks do tend to be really slow maturing dogs. And I've never seen a perfect dog in any breed. If someone claims to have perfect Ridgebacks, run away as fast as you can... they are trying to sell you puppies, not trying to help you learn about whether or not the breed is right for you and your style of hunting.

L3,

   How much does your Capstick dog weigh?

Well the one thing that really led me to mine was the speed.  parents have a half ridgeback half lacy that is fast and not just fast but also quick.  she is all bay on anything larger than about 120 maybe up to 150 but other dogs have to be with her for her to catch that large.  with a little more work think she could be one of the better strike dogs out there she has struck many hogs for my dad and me both.  Mine can really reach running speed quick and has held it for a ways following the fourwheeler so if and when he turns onto hogs I hope not to get out ran like I seen two dogs get flat out ran a couple of months ago.  I am with nosights on if he does not catch he is a cull.  the one thing for people to remember is that they are slow to mature and give them time.  I will start working with mine with pigs about a year and a half.  He has been around them just not really running him with a pig yet.

I don't understand why someone would not want a ridgeback that bays.  If you wanted a bay dog, and a certain ridgeback fit the bill, then why not?  Not trying to be a wise guy here, I'm just missing something. 

 Bo is 126 pds 28 inches at the shoulder he is thick but I have had taller.

dont get me wronge know there are some big bay dogs out there but for the most part most peoples actually bay dogs are smaller just my two cents and how i look at it.  if it catches I want it big if it barks i want in med.

Running speed Purebreedcolt?

We try to have fun with it during the down time :)

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1010211828495 (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1010211828495)

This may be off topic but i got two cur/bulldogs that i trust to hold a 300lb boar while i grab it. Seen em do it time and again and they are both probly not over 50lbs and they are all fearless! ;D In my opinion i think its the dogs brain that makes it able to hold a hog than its size there is some things that you can do a certain way and not have to use much force. Kinda like work smarter not harder! ;)

Michael Conatser

ordered my "Pioneers"  book a minute ago.   I trap hogs, have off and on for 35 years. Don't claim to be the best at it, just enjoy the challenge.  Have a place that would be excellent to hunt dogs. Have pens and enclosed corrals to work dogs. Problem is I have only been on one dog hunt about a month ago. Don't have a problem investing money in good dogs. The problem is I don't have the knowledge to be sure what a good dog is. If it's a couple of puppies to work in pens on small pigs and send to a trainer to finish. That is why the information I get from here is so important and sends me in the right direction. I would prefer to stay with two dogs, that was why I was interested in the ridgebacks.  Have two dogs now, just good all around ranch dogs. Both are over 10.  slowing down, can't push them to hard anymore. thanks for the help

Lets say I told you i had three bays dogs BMC, a Cat , and a Ridgeback. you dont think anything is kinda funny about that? no one would say "why do you have a BMC?" no they would they would wonder why you are draging along a 100 lb help dog. because if you dont have one these 45lb ancient breed ridgebacks that yall talk about that were breed bay you have a cull in my eyes. you will have just what everyone else has a big son of a gun, and if he isnt big you couldnt tell him that.  I put a all bay Ridgeback right next to an all bay dogo hopefully in someone elses yard.

for yall that run ridgebacks do yall run one dog on ground with them that will bark and not catch that way you can tell where dog n hog r if they catch ! lf you dont hear squeal what do you do ! i got a bloodhound/cur that will find one and goes strait to hear couple days go he went out found one caught could not hear or find where they was ! found him lil later he was all cut up ! i been wanting to get me ridgeback to throw with him to hold down big daddy when he get him! and been looking and talking to peep and think ima try get one ! just wondering what yall do when they rock out leave out and catch one them mean ones that dont squeal !??

 Garmin , Bo when he catches makes an alwful noise u know where he is sounds like a lion!

 ther isnt but two things you can do is find a dog that will just bay or buy a garmin!!

yeh i hear ya ! most time i can hear and get there ! but sometimes will get out there yeh ima have to get one them garmins ! i aint had dog to long and hated him at first cause he always caught but i done got to like'n it and want another to throw with him ! that way 2 dogs all i need aint got lead pit threw woods ! i got a bmc/walker pup im hunting with him right now but he getting to where he dont wanna bark he wants to put mouth on it too ! if yall or know where a rideback is let me know ! i like that bo dog mcoy son gun looks good ! and saw ole jr on one rowdys pics damn good looking dog mad i aint get him now hope my pups turn out looking like him getting that big !

- mccoy do them ridebacks tear the hogs up pretty bad and most time have to stick them or what ?

if you wanted all catch  dog then apparently a  REAL Ridgeback would not be the dog for you. Maybe you could get ahold of a Ridge like everyone else has that will catch ( but he would come with out the fancy books)

- mccoy do them ridebacks tear the hogs up pretty bad and most time have to stick them or what ?   no they dont tear or rip unless its real small but most of the time it dont even happen then

I will second that notion

I have no experience with full blooded Ridgebacks... but my experience with hog hunters tells me he is stretching the truth to make a sale or has not been hunting long. If you hunt long enough you will come across a hog(s) you can't catch. He may have good dogs, but they are no super dogs. If they were that great, we would ALL be using them already. He isn't inventing any thing new over there.

Get your snake boots, long sleeve, gloves and tweesers together and go hunt with him before you buy any thing. I have hunted in Three Rivers on property that borders Choke Canyon (big lake). That would seem pretty tough to bay and shoot around there. :D



That's not opinion... thats physics. You are exactly right.

Catchrcall, you're not missing anything man, CircleC figured it out. There are plenty of folks want a fast nose dog that bays, a Ridgeback that bays is an great choice for those folks. There are also those that prefer to leave the mule tape and knives at home, and gun hunt in the old tradition with their ridgebacks. Those are both plenty good reasons(if you want to see the other side Catchrcall, go to this ridgeback field trial judge training video, and fast forward to the 3:25 minute mark to the 4:35 minute mark, to see a pure bred ridgeback with some of the old style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcnKUsqz0M&fmt=18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcnKUsqz0M&fmt=18))


Funny you should say that nosights... I have a friend in florida that has exactly that combination! Two BMC catch dogs, a couple of Ridgebacks that track and bay (and some will back-up catch) and a Cat that mainly bays. It works for them. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.


Well man, I understand where you're comin from. I guess I would just encourage you to consider the possibility that "fancy books" have their place... there's no harm in learning about the history of your chosen breed. I haven't traveled around half of this country and made three trips overseas doing dog work with Ridgebacks so that I could hide behind "book learnin". I try to learn what I can, where ever I can learn it. That means i'll take it from the books about the dogs 100 years ago, from the old-time hunters and breeders about the dogs 30 years ago, and in the woods, to learn about the dogs that are right in front of me right now. Grown men can agree to disagree, cause I don't claim to know everything there is to know, and I don't have all the answers, but I've certainly put in my time and mileage looking for them... and yup... some have been found in the woods, and one or two have been found in history books.

At the end of the day, all I can say is that every hunter should hunt the dogs that make them happy... the dogs that make them proud to be dog men. What ever that means for you, get out and hunt em.  ;)

I DONT KNOW HOW I MISSED THE MOST RIDICOULOUS STATEMENT EVERMADE. BY SAYING THAT YOU ARE SAYING THAT EVERY RIDGEBACK WILL FIND HOGS THAT OTHERS CANT. COME ON.

OTHER THAN THAT I CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.  ;D

Buddy, I dont know a thing about a ridge back but I do know that a lot of folks selling dogs are going to make their particulare strain sound like it is better than all others.  BUYER BE WARE there are no super dogs out there that as a breed are head and shoulder above anything else.  There are hogs out there that on a given day you arent going to catch.  Every dog is going to miss a hog sometimes.

This guy may be a good fellow and I am not putting anybody down but I have heard those same lines over and over.  GO HUNT WITH THE DOGS AND OTHER PEOPLES DOGS OF DIFFERENT BREEDS AND STYLES AND MAKE SURE THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT BEFORE YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY. DONT BUY BECAUSE OF WHAT ME OR ANY BODY ELSE TELLS YOU ABOUT A PARTICULARE BREED OR STYLE OF DOG.

Nosights,
Here is the statement in it's original context, in the first post of this thread.

Most of you that have been doing this for some time talking 15+ years know that these people are like car salesman. The are going to do anything and say everything to get you to buy their product. It's happened with every breed of dog out there. Everyone has their own preference it's the ones that sit and listen to the cock and bull stories and keep circulating them to get others to buy into it. Sort of a spokesperson for the breed, until another comes into the picture.

 nosight the statement just means they are good windin dogs that's all. There is no super breeds just super dogs!

THATS THE TRUTH

Nosights,

How long have you been a dog hunter?

ok maybe we have a misunderstanding, Mccoy what you posted is excaclty what point i was trying to get across in my pevious post.

JHY as far as dog hunting about a year. I have gone almost every weekend in that time frame. As far knowledge I dont have as much as some people, but I do know excactly what i look for out of every breed of dog.  and a yappy Ridgeback isnt one of them. Why does it matter?

Nosights,

A clarification.
     JHY / Joey did not ask you how long you have been hunting. JSH did.   

thanks c where did i get JHY.  ??? JSH

  well i will take one over most breeds anyday and thats a fact!!

I tell ya, I never thought about them much until I hunted with McCoy's. Bo is a damn nice dog and I am really liking the one I got from him. For a pup, he has lots of snap. He can run all night, he's straight as a string, seems to have a good nose, and can make a hog have a bad night!

so you will take Ridgeback that just is just straight bay over a BMC (lets say just for an example) that is straight bay. That is just the novelty factor so people can say yeah I got a Ridgeback. There is no real advantage to  having a 115 lb baydog. Give me one advantage to having a 100 lb Bay dog. The advantage would be if that sucker could use his size to shut a pig down. Thats all iam saying in my opinion like i said before it would be a cull in my book. 


let also clarify we are talking about the ridgbacks here that are available to us. not some mystical ancient breed dogs.

Alot of people would hunt with a JackRabbit if it could bay a hog. ;D

So....with this logic, does that mean that a BMC that will catch is a cull????? Is he a cull if he catches with another dog too?? If you buy a dog of any breed as a bay dog and he bays....is he a cull?? I have had and hunted with many a BMC that was 80 lbs and up and would bay until you got there then catch as good as any bulldog. Man, i wish I could find some more culls like that!!

Nosights,

     When I first started reading your posts on this thread,,,I thought, "this dude is out there..." Now, I think I know what you are saying...

Why feed a 100# dog that only bays, when you can feed a 50# dog that only bays.


Am I understanding you correctly?

man read the whole post iam asking you to give me one advantage to having a 100 pound baydog that wont catch.

Thank you C i sometimes think faster than I can type and it doesnt make ne since. 

Are all Ridgebacks that big?

I don't think yall want to start a discussion about why people feed what they do.  :o :D

They feed what they feed because they can afford it.

cantex thats what iam saying, the only reason would be for show. and to say you had a 110# ridgeback that will only do the same thing as your 35# cur. It just doesnt make sense to me


like i said I would like to hear one good advantage to having 100 ridgeback that only bays to anytype of cur around 50 pounds that does the same.
now muleman i can see advantages in everything you said so iam not really understanding your point on that.

Its just some people's preference. I like yellow and red cur gyps,,, they are not any better or worse than any thing else out there. It may not be about cost of food. For some people an extra cup a day is a small price for having what they like.


Look how many people drive diesels and jacked up trucks that don't need them... its just what they like. ;) If it is all about the cost of food... then I guess you would be right nosightsneeded.

Neither did Algebra but there is a rhyme and reason for everything. Guess my Dad said it best when he said we culled to hard to early sometimes. If he would have done that to us we would have never lived passed the age of 7. LOL

My only thing is, I expect bay dogs to help catch when I get there or the bulldog gets there. Not much point of a 35 lb dog catching. believe me, I have one. In a perfect world, I would have two big dogs that would find pigs, bay till I got there and then catch like a bulldog. then I wouldnt need any other dogs at all. but if I had to feed 5 or 6 little dogs to do the same job, there just is no advantage they eat as much as 2 big dogs and its just more to mess with.

 Dont get me wrong, I wasnt agreeing with you.  Big dogs have a place, the same with smaller dogs. Just because it doesnt fit your style of hunting doesnt mean it is wrong. What kind of dogs do you perfer nosights?

 nosights try to understand folks don't have to run the same as u if than was the case their wouldnt be a forum because we would all have the same story to tell but by the way u think  I have a ten pounds weiner dog that will bay the hell out of a hog picks up trails (his nose is always on the grounds ) will catch does that make better than curs. This started because a man ask if they were a joke no they are not they can and will do the job. Don't know if they are right forya but try and see good luck!

I am with you. I have seen catchdogs get chunked and it was good to have those strike dogs that grab with the catchdogs. They kind of held it down for a moment for the catchdogs to catch again.

 
[/quote]


  I put a all bay Ridgeback right next to an all bay dogo hopefully in someone elses yard.
[/quote]

Iam not saying its wrong but if you read my post you saw where i can see where they would have there place.

If youre talking "all bay" I agree. but then I dont want a dog of any breed that will not catch under any circumstances.

I run larger dogs but they get gritty but have brains and help with the catch. thats when I can see them using their size helps

THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME.

I have yet to see a 100# RR just bay so until then they are welcome to eat in my yard as long as they want.  Less dogs = less headaches

"I dont know anyone that would buy a ridgeback that bays"


This is where we got train wrecked. I took that as bays at all. Damn thats a long way to go to find out we pretty much agree.

I LOVE YOU MAN  :D

HATE IT SORRY GUYS FOR THE ROLLERCOASTER IT COULD HAVE TAKEN 10 SECONDS IN PERSON

That's okay had nothing better to do at work anyway. LOL ;D

That is called the Circle of Life on forums... :)

Man i just read this long a** thread to find out everyone agrees in the end. lol

I am still looking for a 50-60 lb working Ridgeback in Fla....Now I really want to try the cross.... :o

Wind good, run all night, catch with the catchdog....thats my kind of dog... ;D

HOLLY COW yall are long winded

Like a bunch of ridgebacks!!!!!!

Muleman... I took it the exact same wrong way! Sounds like everyone does basically agree. Looks like it was a alot of confusion for nothin' LOL!!!

********************

nosights, where are you hunting with all these monster Ridgebacks man? No wonder you expect them to be so catchy!

In case you've never looked into the breed, what a Ridgeback is -supposed- to be size wise is:

Dogs 25 - 27 inches, 85 lbs +/-
Bitches 24 - 26 inches, 70 lbs +/-

If you're breeding/hunting a pure bred Ridgeback and you actually care about correct breed type, don't cull it for baying, cull it for being a way over-sized 110lb monster.

I'm going to try to come to bremond on Saturday... we should look each other up! Look for my wife's rice-burner (ugh) with the red dog trailer. If i do make it down I will probably arrive too late in the day to make the entries... but I'll be sure to bring an in-standard 2 1/2 year old pure bred ridgeback gyp with me so you can see her. She is 24 3/4 inches and weighs 62 lbs.

Muleman... I took it the exact same wrong way! Sounds like everyone does basically agree. Looks like it was a alot of confusion for nothin' LOL!!!

********************

I said that i was talking about about a all bay ridgeback 4 times. I dont know how clearer i could have been. I think jumping into a disagreement and not reading the entire posts leads to the confusion.

nosights, have you hunted with Bo?? he is a freak! The one I got from McCoy is coming along good too. He is not as thick as Bo but he is taller

Good Lord fellas. I wasn't tellin no one to cull their dog, geez!!!  :o

Obviously subtlety wasn't the right approach, so I'll put it plainly. The only point I was trying to make to nosights with that post was that his earlier suggestion of culling a ridgeback that bays, makes about as much sense as culling a ridgeback that happens to be over-standard size.

I'm a purist, I'm trying to pursue a ridgeback that hunts the way the breeds founders, Van Rooyen and Barnes, envisioned from the beginning. And yes, part of that is also means wanting a ridgeback that is built the way the breed standard describes.

But that's just my take on it... for me. If someone has a ridgeback that hunts a different way, or isn't built the way they are supposed to be built... at the end of the day, it only really matters if it matters to the person that owns that dog. If you have a good dog (of any size/shape/breed), and it makes you happy, then it's a good dog, plain and simple.

 nosightsneeded - You know he was just saying that all ridgebacks aren't that big..  He was making a joke about it being a cull. 

Some of you need to learn how to have a civil discussion without acting like two year olds. You have a man here who has travled the world and is very educated and experienced in this breed and all y'all want to do is throw smart a$$ comments at him???????????

Evidently you need to read up on the dogs and learn what they were created and bred for.

I understood exactly what he meant and, once again, I agree. I know what the breed standard says I have done some research too. I know the ridgeback I have is a freak, and McCoy's Bo dog is fer sure a freak. But that is what we like about them. I will agree that neither one meets the breed standard and that if I was raising straight ridgebacks, it would not be doing the breed justice to breed out of these monsters. I will not deny that to a serious ridgback breeder, these dogs would be culls. I only wish I could find another cull or two!

WAARHEID, all jokes aside, you obviously know what you are talking about and I respect a man that is dedicated to his breed. I am new to the ridgeback dogs and I must say I am fascinated with them. I hope to see you at the bay in bremond and talk to you more.

I dont care how much it weighs, most of us use Bulldogs for catch dogs! bay dogs are supposed to bey. I think RB's are beautiful but I have hunted with 6 or 7 of them and I am yet to see one more than 60 or 70 yards from us, this being said I guess if your big RB's stay real close to you and you walk them up on a hog and they catch it great at least you know where they are. If you have those running catch dogs that actually go hunting its my opinion you are asking for trouble. I would love to have a big beautiful ridgeback that would go hunting find a hog and BAY IT! not catch till I got there with the catch dog. Muleman you could just give me yours and McCoy could give me BO, I will hunt them for a couple of years and I will post my findings on here for everyones enjoyment!......lol

Just an observation raider54 but I have had the same experience and share almost the same opinion with Catahoula curs as you do with RB's.
But there is sure a lot of dang good Cats out there! I just haven't had the privilege of owning and hunting a good one yet.

I guess what I am trying to say is that like you it was enough to turn me off from the breed but I'm probably missing out because I just never got a holt of the right dogs.