EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Besides the "Pretty Creek Tournament", what other tournaments will allow Barrs this year? 

Joey

Eastfork allows them. Im sure the bumpers will allow them.

Is Cole having his tournament?

Los casadorez, they just don't count in side pots...

you can wiegh in barr hogs at my tourny. the nrth vs west  this yr

East Fork
Blake Granberry
Bumpers...?
Los Cazadores...?

Waiting on TDHA's rules to be posted. Hopefully they don't go against the majority.

I also believe some of the contests that didn't allow barrs this year will change their rules to allow barrs next year. ;)

Mine will we have added money and 8 bob berg buckles !!

I'm sure the Randy Bumpur's is on.  I originally agreed with the rule, but I do "Not" have much experience catching Barr hogs so I realized I couldn't really make an educated judgement on the subject so I asked a few guys that I really respect their input on hogs and dogs and they told me that they are harder to catch than boars. I don't agree with the practice unless you do it on your own land and I think that if they are as hard to catch as they say they are that they shouldn't be much of an issue.

Mike tdha flyer says one Barr in the stringer. I don't feel it is right especially for the tdha competion because they support all of Texas. But the it is what it is. We fought a losing battle.

JoeyI believe the people that voted no barrs in the tdha has no real experience with catching them either. But if they lined three up like we did last week they would understand

Chance, I guess I missed that... what a shame.

First, they did away with the "Hunt for the Hungry", which was why this contest was originally started. Now barr hogs, which the majority of folks supported and didn't have a problem with... and has never been an issue in this contest.

Fortunately, others are feeding the hungry and allowing barr hogs... what a shame TDHA.

Who voted for this with TDHA?  Was is like a committy or board or what?

I do not know a lot about the situation as a whole but believe they did away with the "Hunt for the Hungry" because hunter's harvest no longer accepted wild hogs. I can tell you from experience...trying to find a place to go with dead feral hogs is not easy. I worked on that last year for the LSWDA and never found anyone willing to accept them for donations.

However...I dont see why it be an issue for the TDHA to make money off the hunt to help support the fight for dog hunter's rights. Mr Mason and others spend lots of time informing hunters of bills that hurt our hunting rights and makes trips to Austin for legislature meetings. In order to have a say and voice "our" opinion...it cost money. These organizations and legislatures want donations!

All that said.....I do not agree with the no barr rule and I dont even know what a barr looks like.  ;D Im half ass confused with this catch n tie thing as it is.

My theory is to crown the real champion and do most hogs in a stringer.

And what was the reasoning for this change in the rules?

It's already been stated by two former BOD that barr hogs have NEVER been an issue.

There was an overwhelming show of support from those who were in favor of barr hogs and leaving the rule as is.

TDHA just alienated a whole lot of people and lost a huge amount of support.

Mike maybe we go back to allowing them next year, but where is the membership support from those who voted for barr's.

The rest of this post is not directed to you Mike.

At the end of the day its just a hunt to support TDHA so that we have the funds to pay people to fight for us in law making.  Have a good time hunting with some friends over the weekend and be happy your supporting something good. 

Do you not support what we do?  Would you sleep well knowing if i would have just hunted that hunt and helped them out i would be able to legally hunt now, but i didn't becuase i could not enter a stringer full of Barr's. 

If not allowing barr's alienated you or some from TDHA then i doubt your heart was in TDHA and what we do in the first place.  I have personal friends who are not happy about this but are hunting the hunt regardless.  CWARD who is very open about being against this is a 3 year member of TDHA and is hunting the hunt even though he is not happy at all.  That an action that speaks much louder then any words.   

We hope lots of people make this hunt and help us replenish our funds for lobbying and the schalorships we give away, but if you don't want to support that we understand but we would really appreciate those that don't to stop bashing those that do.   

sorry mike i got off on something else and didn't answer you question, but i would say the main reason is the stringer size.  It used to be big and such a small stringer can be much tighter race and a stringer full of barr's would be very hard to compete with.  Its nothing against barr hunters in general at all.  Some do it as a regional practice and always have but the desire to win these contest is getting high and people are doing whatever it takes these days to win. 

Field dressed hogs can't LEGALLY be donated to feed the hungry.

Live hogs are sold, and that money goes to directly fund lobbying efforts on the behalf of all dog hunters.

I think that is a very worthy cause to support and I am very proud to have been on the BOD when this was started. Last year the hunters entered in the TDHA contest raised just over $5,000 for direct lobbying on their behalf.

Y'all keep steeping around the problem with barrs. There are two problems with them in a contest.

1. They are going to be heavier because of their altered condition.

2. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not there have been people who have been barring hogs and moving them to honey holes for the contests.

This movement of hogs barrs or otherwise is against the law.

Y'all have been upset with TDHA, when you should be upset with the hunters who were stocking their honey holes with barrs just for the contests.

No Paul, the polygraph should take care of any issues of hunter's stocking their honey holes with hogs... barrs, boars or sows.

This is starting to sound like the the gun control people... let's take them away before something happens! Give me a break, all this does is take away chances from the honest folks who enter.

I guess there's a new law on donating meat, or has the contest been ran illegally all these years?

For everyone that thinks you can stock a place with barrs please understand. We are cutting their testicles off, they still have four legs and can and will go wherever they please. I have personally cut and marked hogs that where turned loose and never seen again. For example anybody that knows anything about the area around Diboll, we cut a boar in Ryans Lake and he was killed a few months later in bear creek hunting club almost in Shawnee Prairie wearing our mark. That is probably 10 miles or more from where he was caught. So that whole stocking a place to win dont hold water. Unless it is fenced and that was illegal already.

Mike, the polygraph this year will cover, in detail, movement of any feral hogs for the contest. As well as hunting a spot that has any hogs relocated to it by any person not just team members.

Yes, TDHA should be ashamed for trying to fight for the rights of people that have no interest in supporting such an organization. Yes, hogs are no longer donated to hunters harvest, we make a monetary donation to keep our organization from breaking the law. I'm sure that the charity that we donate to can use that money to buy food to feed the hungry just as they would have used the meat that was donated to do the same. And there was no overwhelming support for barrs being allowed in the contest, it was pretty much 50/50 on for, against, and don't care.
Anthony

AnthonyB, where do you get a 50/50 split from? The two polls on here were more than double for those in favor. I didn't see anyone speak up on the TDHA forum. Just about everyone that voiced there opinion was in favor of barrs also. Where are all those against barrs?

Are they the silent ones that don't speak up?

How do expect TDHA to grow, gain more members and support when they go against what the majority of hunters want?

The don't care vote can not be used by either side. There vote counted as there opinion but neither side can take credit for it. So we are down to 25% against50%.

Mike,
I got those numbers from simply doing the math on the poll. I only used the one poll to do it. So if you break it down 53.4% were for barrs, 26.3% were against, and 20.3% didn't care. So if you group these numbers by relevance to the rule in question, 53.4% are for and 46.6% are against or unaffected by it. Pretty close to 50/50. You mentioned both polls, to use both we would need to exclude those that voted in both and average it back out the same way, and we must also remember that the poll represented 118 people with 63 being for barrs, which is far from a majority of hunters on this forum not to mention the TDHA membership, and barely represents a majority of the poll itself.
Anthony

Why would the 20.3% automatically go towards the against side of the poll :) seems to me that 10.15% should go towards both sides. Geesh and i mean geeeeesh

Redo the math! But i did go to splendora high so maybe my learnin wasnt did right?? ;)

very good point.

That was my take on the poll, it can be interpreted any way you want. I grouped them together because it didn't affect those that didn't care. So lets say that 100% voted for barrs, does that represent a majority of all hunters at the number of 118 people? Does it represent the majority in this forum? No, not even close. Any way you cut it, the poll doesn't conclusively show that the rule is a bad one in my opinion. But each hunter has their own.
Anthony

And I'm pretty sure the math was correct, unless I'm wrong and 26.3 added to 20.3 isn't 46.6?
Anthony

i think 3w will, not too sure though

To me it showed that most of the folks don't have a clue as to what the difference is if any and decided not to comment. I took from the poll personally that there were a lot of knowledgable dog men who's opinions I respect saying that Barr hogs are a equally as hard to catch if not harder to catch in most cases.

I guess u missed my point. Your math is correct. The equation is wrong. Why would the 20.3 automatically go to the against side? If the 20.3 vote didnt care either way it sounds to me the tally for that vote went to the side you were leaning towards. The 20.3 should be split and added to the for AND the against side. ;) 

Here is how i see the poll working out...

For barrs.              Against barrs
  63.55%.                  36.45%

TDHA folks (BOD),

Why don't you guys print a survey card and require each team that registers for the tournament this year to express their opinion.  That way you get a 100% opinion from 100% of people who are actually competing.  That would get you some actual useful data for next years consideration.

I believe the data within the two polls conducted here to be pretty worthless if you ask me.  I'd be curious to know how many of the voters actually hunt the competitions, and also believe that there are a lot of hunters and competitors who don't necessarily do the internet / forum deal.

Best post I have seen to date regarding the Barr/contest.

Very good post. The % may show people voting towards barrs but I bet the total number of people who voted is low. Come up with a list of questions and let the people who actually hunt this tournament decide exactly how the hunt should go next year. Barrs, numbers of hogs in stringer..etc..Make the poll of hunters determine 100% what the tournament should be next year....

The rules are set and not going to be changed so IMO everyone needs to let it be and not complain anymore it is what it is this year. Lets all just hunt and have a good time and when the hunt is over then discuss with the tdha and see if you can come up with a solution. I am sure I'm not the only one that's tired of hearing all the complaining about barrs

And I guess you have proof of this Paul?? You actually caught people lying through the polygraph correct??

Surely you arnt simply implying this without concrete proof, you've actually caught people doing this huh

Crj... the rules have been in place for years. There was absolutely no reason to change them this year.

That's what people are upset about.

I believe they do this already....except this issue wasnt an issue last year. Good post....

The way I see it...the same general 5% or so is going to win regardless of the rules. With or without the barr rule...it is more or less the same people winning. ITs the pricipal of the situation now.

It would seem whining is what it takes to get a rule changed. Someone whined enough to get barrs taken out. So most people take for granted if they complain enough eventually it will get changed back. Unless this decision is solely based on 5 peoples opinion that have no desire to hear the other side.

In reference to my post....It might should start being considered to do something similar to coon hunts. Having a championship bracket.

The championship bracket being open and mandatory for past winners. (regulated by trail of tears) The best of the best competing against each other. This bracket will be small in entries but award the same. "Best of the Best"


And a registered bracket for more specific stringer. (ie..no barrs) The bracket will be the majority of entries but pay and award the same as the championship bracket.

I may be thinking too far into things but there is no way to please everyone but it puts things on a playing field where more people have opportunity to win. = more entries

IMO the best of the best is highest accomplishment. Thought for future tournamnets.

I liked when the tounaments raised money or meat to donate but I just don't understand what most people want out of a tournament today.  It used to just be a fun time where we all hunted together and we got to visit and cut up at the weigh in.  I am self admittedly not a super competitive person by nature but it seems like the desire to win has overshadowed the real purpose of what most of these tournaments originally started out as, ie fundraisers, memorial hunts etc.  I agree that any hog should be elidgible for entry so I guess that makes me pro barr for whatever thats worth.  I just hope those that feel strongly enough about the subject would refrain from hunting in the tournaments they dont agree with the rules on and see where that leaves the tournament the following year.  Starve em out and start your own, its the only way your going to be happy.

I like Rex's idea and I had a discussion the other day with a buddy about it but I realy like the way coon hunts are set up I just don't know how to translate that in to hog hunts. 

You hit it on the head Matt, i love to compete but what allot of people don't know about me is i have a little money to throw down for a bet and always love a chanlenge but i lose with a smile and i am proud of my dogs Most of the time! ;)  I also like talking crap to get those more competitive people out there worked up!!  :laugh:

I like this idea!

Matt, Rex good posts.

I worked on some ideas over the last couple of years for different formats for the TDHA hunt. Different "brackets" so to speak. Its a good idea but the man power needed to work on this has always been lacking. The TDHA hunt is planned and organized by a very very small number of people, we always need more help.

We have always got to think of things that the teams never have to worry about and might not understand why the rules are written as they are.

1. How many hogs can we handle, dead or alive. The last dead hog contest we had we were limited to no more than 300 hogs, and wrote the rules accordingly. Last year with live hogs we did not know, for sure, how many we could sell and what condition they would be in, and wrote the rules accordingly.

2. How can we maximize entries while hitting the hog number target that we need?

3. How can we continue to make the TDHA hunt the best of the best. The most respected ,as far as fare play, regarding the rules.

4. What hunt format brings in the most sponsors.

5. What hunt format brings in the most entries.

6. What rule changes are needed to stay ahead of the curve of teams trying to find a way to push the rules or find a loop hole. You can't imagine the phone calls I used to get regarding the rules and what was permitted and what would disqualify a team. Hours of discussion on what was or was not a "hog proof fence", "free range", "previously caught", "What is a helper", and every other detail of every single rule. So I have a pretty good grasp of where the teams were pushing the rules to the max.

The last thing that I would ever want to happen is for a high placing team to be thrown out because of a failed poly-graph. The rules are the rules, follow them what ever they are and have fun supporting a group that is fighting for your rights as dog hunters.

There is so much work involved in putting this contest on, most of you have no idea. And most of the time all the BOD gets for their trouble a bunch of grief on the message boards, LOL.

The barr question on the team survey is a good idea. Ya'll should realize that most hunters who are anti-barr are not going to post that in public on the ETHD board.

Thanks,
Paul T

I guess you are right on that. Y'all just send PM's making wild accusations that have absolutely zero merit and credibility; dragging good people's names through the mud. Trust me we know because we have read all the outrageous emails and PM's that have been sent on this issue. I honestly would have expected more from someone in your position

TShelly, I have sent 2 or three PM's to Chance on this issue. Other than this morning, the last one being on Dec 22.

Everything I said to him in private I have posted publicly as well.

I am not in a "position", I am a TDHA member and I am an adviser on this years hunt.

If you have a problem please call me personally 806 455 1297 after dark is best.

Thanks,
Paul T

I understand both sides of the argument, but this isn't going to go anywhere. Fact is you will never satisfy all competitors and I think that a lot of these teams, mine included, do not have the dog power to compete at such a high level and volume of hogs. I think we probably should either split it into two divisions say and "Open Class" for all who will turn in the numbers and allow Barrs and a " Restricted Class" that requires less hogs a stringer and doesn't allow Barrs. Me personally I go to hunt against the "Best" dog men and dogs that are around and contribute to a good cause. I give it my best each time to win and I often only barely place, but at least I know that I didn't lose to any cheaters, but superior dog power and good dog men.

Lets stay focused on how we can resolve this issue and not lose teams to rules that exclude them over something they have no control over.