EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

me and noah were talking about this earlier . i got a standing offer from a guy down south of me to do some dog training in his preserve .( he wants me to bring him some hogs ) he has some pure europeans , razorbacks , ferrells and crosses on a big place . he sells trophy boar hunts to yankees that come and sit in a deer stand and shoot one when it walks by .

   my question is , would you put your dogs in there knowing there were alot of big toothy russians in there ? i know what i think but what about yall ?

I don't know about the rest of the hog doggers but that is why I feed my pot lickers to try and catch hogs be they big or little. You win some and you loose some it's all part of the sport.

i would do it..it is a graet way to train pups. you know you will be able to get on hogs so you can get them to range out further and see them stop hogs..etc.

I have a large fenced pen that I used to use for training and tuning up pups.  I dont use it really at all anymore, but the most important thing I learned from that type of pen training is always catch the hog the dogs are baying.  Let them bay for a good while and if they come out you walk them right back in there and make them stay put.   Keep doing it till you at least can get them to bay for about 4 hours and then go catch the hog.  Never let them bay and then just quit, or catch them off the hog.

Joey

A couple of years ago, I was invited by a hunting buddy and his father to help them do some catching at a pen.  They run curs and at the time had no bulldog.  I had a decent dog, but nothing special at the time.  To sweeten the offer, they invited me to bring my hounds too.  This 500 acre high fence ranch is known for having some machetes in there.  Basicallly, they have a 100 acre meat hog section, and a 500 acre trophy section.  Somehow, the meat hogs had tore the fence, and had migrated to the "trophy" section.  As the owner would guide hunts, they would only see little guys and gilts at the feed stands.  He was just wanting them caught, and moved back into the other side.  Well, my buddy's dad used to guide on this high fence when they had a dog hunt for a customer.  Anyway, we loaded up the dogs, and headed for the place.  Within 5 minutes of closing the gates behind our trucks, we saw a hog.  He was a boar, but by no means was he a trophy.  We sent two of my hounds along with 2 curs to stop him.  Basically, my hounds being turned loose, was just to let them get some reps.  The curs could have handled the boar by themselves.  Anyway, as luck would have it, the boar ran one of my gyps down, and stabbed her good.  That was a bad feeling knowing that it was going to be a long day ahead.  As time went on, we caught plenty of hogs.  Every other animal in there was as tame as it gets.  As the truck would go by, they would follow behind looking for feed.  I realized right then that hunting a high fence was not for me.  Only the hogs in there were afraid of human interaction.  During the course of the morning we bayed no less than 15 different hogs.  We got tired of throwing hogs as you can imagine.  Around lunch, his curs struck and bayed a boar that was about 250, maybe even 260 pounds.  This boar was one of the trophies.  He was rank.  After about 45 minutes of trying to get the curs out of harms way, we were told to just catch him, and load the dogs in the truck.  We were then going to go to another spot on the ranch.  Well, I get the video camera out.  Then, I pull the bulldog off the box.  I'm about 65 yards from the bay.  They are in possition to leg the boar, so they say, "release the beast".  Off he went.  He crashed directly into the boars head.  Next thing I know, the dog is shaking his head, like "what in the world was that all about".  He immediately turned and caught the ear.  Richard legged the monster, and threw him to the dirt.  We all took dogs to the truck.  On the way with the bulldog, I saw a lot of blood.  Once the coast was clear, Richard hit a tree, and the boar jogged off.  As I inspected the dog, I thought his eye was missing.  His face looked like he had run head on into a train.  I told them that I had had enough "FUN", and whenever they were ready, I would gladdly start the 2 hour ride home.  Everyone agreed that we should stop before anything got killed.  The land owner thanked us for our help, and we went to the house.  Once there, I went to really cleaning the wounds.  His eye was there, it was just covered by a layer of hamburger that had flipped down over the eyelid.  After some down time (2 months), he healed up just fine.  After that, I decided that those trophy ranches have the hogs they have, because they are placed in there.  They have proved themselves as trophies.  With that fact, and the fact that I did not see much sport in running dogs in a 500 acre pen, I decided that was not for me.  I'll take my chances on the open.  You never know what you're going to get into, but that is part of the excitement.  Questions lead to excitement.  40 pound shoalt or 300# boar, no fences for me.

I hunted a high fence ranch in athens that was 800 acre and had pictures of a big hogs and one that had claimed to be pushing 500lb and that did nothing but get me more excited, although i was turned downed when i asked around for some extra dogs to join me ;) ;D. I went and we cauight a goodin and bayed the monster but he smoked us on 800acre high fence ;D

 Not so sure I would go. Is it worth getting a pup(young dog) killed over? If it was me I wouldnt drop any young gritty dogs, not worth it.

I cannot see any difference myself between the high fence game ranch, and free range.  We all know there are "trophy" hogs in the wild, same as in a high fence area.  If one is not willing to accept that their dog may bay up mr big, then maybe they need to take up squirrel hunting.

My .02 ;)

I've been to a couple of high fenced places. 1 of them was about 2000 acres, and we would go in the and catch the hogs and barr them. I've sold alot of hogs to them and they wont buy anything with less than 2 1/2 inches, so there is some real big ones out there. Another place i have been to is 9000 acres and you cant tell the difference if it was high fenced or not, they never bring in any hogs. From my experience on those 2 places there is no difference between than and a low fenced place in terms of how the hogs act or how bad they are.JMO

I WOULD DO IT WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.  I HOG HUNT TO CATCH HOGS NO MATTER THE SIZE.

yeah cutter bay said it , what if 3 out of 5 hogs you see have big cutters ,they are some what tame because they are following the vehicle . how educated on dogs are they ? would you put dogs in there that think they re ruff  becuase they ve never seen a true european before ? or are pure russians that much worse than regular crosses like youd find in the wild ?

Yea if they are dog trained that might be another story, that place in athens was never dogged. Loose bay dogs ;)

my question is does it matter. if you are willing to cut that pup loose in the wild cutting loose in the pen is no different...if i got pups that aren't ready for the woods then i wouldn't put them in the pen, if i'm taking them to the woods then i will put them in the pen. i like using the pen for the younger dogs, because i know there are hogs in there. this way when i cut them loose i know they are going to get on a hog, where as cutting loose in the wild is a crapshoot of whether or not they will get on a hog or not. the pen is for training in my mind, to develop a little hunting drive, to develop the ability to stop a runner, etc.

I'll throw in an extra 1 1/2 cents because I'm not all there.  The likelyhood of you catching 5 250 # boars with 3" teeth or better in the same place on the same day is not very likely around these parts.  We have our share of fine boars on the free range, but not that many gathered up together.  In a high fence with less than 1000 acres, if there is any kind of hog population at all, you are going to be catching hogs all day if you're packing a decent dog.  From my very small experience with trophy ranches (1 time), it does not showcase your dogs hunting ability.  I would venture to say that 6 out of 10 dogs found around any dump (waste site), if placed directly in front of a hog will go to baying.  However, I would be surprised if 1 could take an old track, and move it out.  This is most likely the hound side of my hog hunting brain talking, but the bay is such a miniscule part of the overall hog hunting experience.  Personally, I want to see them find the track, move it, jump the hog, stop it, and keep it there.  The bonus as a hunter is placing my hands on that hog.  Just as it is only a bonus to carry a coon out of the woods when coon hunting.  If they tree the coon, they have done their job as a coon dog.  If I don't shoot the coon out, does it mean the dog did not do his job?  Same goes for a bay dog in my mind.  That particular dog's job is to present me the opportunity to make the decision whether I want to take the hog home or just send him on his way.  That's the way I approach hog dog hunting anyway.  Generally speaking, the hogs on trophy ranches have been brought there by dog hunters, because they showed the characteristics to be derseving of the title "Trophy Boar".  Now, I'm sure that some were trapped instead.  Either way, they are generally wise, and have seen a dog at some point.  Practice makes perfect.  A boar that has fought his share of dogs, most likely knows a thing or two about making the dogs leave him alone, even if that means him killing the dogs.  Once they've been in a pen that gets dogged, they educate themselves real quick.  Survival of the fittest.  Bank on that.  

As far as running a little hog in a couple acre bay pen to get a young dog started, sure, for the most part, I see no harm.  However, once the young dog progresses to the next step in his development, it's time to move on.  Without failure, how is any animal going to succeed?  That goes for us as hunters as well.  How are you going to learn if everything goes your way every hunt.  Sometimes, you don't win.  It makes you stronger.  The burn it places in your personal drive will make you adapt.  My little brain loves to learn.  I think it makes me stronger in other aspects of my life.  

In closing, if you want to run your dogs in a trophy pen, they're your dogs.  As long as the land owner is cool with it, knock yourself out.  I hope to see some pics of these trophies you catch.  I'm just not sure what you're going to prove to yourself, or to your dogs.   Oh, one more thing, bring the staple gun.

yes it would be good to be sure and get on hogs and do some training , but i got a feeling the majority of hogs are gonna be trophy boars = big russian knife toting bruisers like you might run into once in a year in the real world . i really want to go and get on some hogs instead of staying in the saddle  for miles looking for sign in the heat . but the more i think about it and after losing buck the other day in a similar circumstance the more leary i am . im sure every body elses dogs are good enuff to handle anything but as i said im leary . thanks for the input , keep it coming

One thing I have seen hogs do when they know they are penned up is lay down and hide and when the dogs get on em they blow out of there and run and lay up again.  Very frustrating especially if they are big, athletic hogs.  I think the biggest concern I would have is just chasing them all day...
MG

  I train all of my dogs in pens before they are allowed to hunt freely. I dont like to hunt young dogs. and I need away to keep them younguns into shape and constantly keep them learning. these pens allow this to happen. I use a 10 acre 100 acre and 200 acre pens to train my dogs.   These are High fenced and filled with hogs from 5 pounds to 500 pounds plus many other animals. This is for training purposes only. To use rcd's, cd's, or gritty dogs in these areas would be alot of work that wouldnt help much. and if you think it is any easier for a young dog to stop a hog in a 200 acre fence you are wrong it is just as hard for the pup to learn to stop the hog as in the wild except for that you know that the hog can only run 5000 yards.

another advatage is trash breaking. Your dogs are always around rams, elk, buffalo, and whatever else is in the pens with the hogs and you can train them to only hunt hogs much easier than in the wild. It is a little more controlled in a fenced in pen.

Some pens I have worked my pups in have pulled out the cutters out so not to hurt the pup as much. Once the pup has learned to handle these hogs you move them into more realistic types of training. Bigger pens with all types of hogs.

The bigger the better! Swing the gates and go to em! Just be ready!

Circle C wrote:



But what if you bayed up this guy?.....there is always a BIG'UN somewhere waiting to hand it to the dogs!!! ;D

(http://www.musicismysanctuary.com/Images/muscle-squirrel.jpg)

On a serious note:

When I guide dog hunts in high fence a couple times a year stopping the hog is the biggest problem.  Most of the big ones were brought there by hog-doggers and they know the game.....they BREAK constantly and know if they stop they will be wearing catch dog earrings.....THEY DONT WANT THAT SO THEY RUN!!!!!

Also, there is a LOT of scent in a game proof with a large population of big boars.....trails criss-crossing everywhere.....can be a challenge as well....

Cutter Bay Kennels - Good points..

There is a big difference between pure Russians and crosses. I helped out a fellow that breed imported Russian Blacks. They have a lot different temperament than any thing I had ever seen. These hogs were between 200lbs and 300lbs. They were athletic, quick and plum nasty. I would be very careful in this heat to put my dogs in a high fenced area with a dozen trophy hogs. The first one or two might be OK, but as the dogs loose stamina running down trophy boar your odds are not good. Fresh trophy hog after fresh trophy hog your dogs are going to loose the advantage. I guarantee those pure russian boar will cull your pack for you.

pork  is pork in a pen swamp in the  middle on i 10 under the trinty river bridge lol i am like buddybegone i dont feed them to catch babies

i like doing for only about an hr or two. the dogs get hot quick. like black gold said there are a lot of trails and the dogs do have to work out a track. it does teach them to get out and go hunting cause you are dropping them in hog heavy areas. when they are leaving and baying i take them to the woods with older dogs. the pen is to tune them up and to get them going. my job makes it to where i don't get to hunt as much as i like. so when i drop the dogs i want them on hogs. i use the pen to get their minds right when they have had a long lay off. we can't take the hogs out so we use it teach them to bay and to stop a hog. these hogs like to run so this teaches them to stop a hog. it doesn't help them to take an old track, but i dont' run hounds so i don't need a cold nose dog.

I agree. Some of the longest chases ive seen were in a high fence. Sometimes they will run the same loop over and over. Sometimes it is better for the hunters to spread out and you can see the hog and try to rope him or run over him if he wont bay up.  :o Regardless it is still a BALL.

The thing about high fenced pigs is they run from one side of the property to the other back and forth especially if they have lived there a while. almost everytime they will hide in the same 2-3 places. if you send out the pack and keep a couple of catch dogs and stand about around the area where you jumped him not everytime but most of the time you can catch him circling back to his original hiding spot.

That's right that is when you as a hunter will figure out that animals have a pattern and are creatures of habits. People that run and run the same hog that can't catch him know what he does cause he has the same pattern. That is where we have the advantage.

We use to have a 100 acre pen where we started all of dogs or hunted to tuned them up during deer season. We always knew where they were and the paths they took got hot they went to the water to a quick dip and ran out as quick as they went in.

Truth is the biggest difference was that these hogs ran like the devil. Stopped for no one or anything. So you knew you had to have a couple of gritty dogs to stop and catch them. This is where we learned to breed for grit and stamina cause some of these races lasted for a couple of hours. It was something we enjoyed and learned from. Was a great culling process for what we were looking for.

Hogs are hogs...in a fence or free ranging.....no matter.....I would eat it up....I feed my dogs to hunt anytime and anywhere...... ;D I have caught several "toothy" hogs.....lol

If you dont go call me I will.

High fence means nothing, the question is; is it supposed to be hog proof, height makes no difference, they can go under the highest fence just as easy as a low fence.

If it was me I wouldnt think twice about it, 90% of the land i hunt is high fence and it means 0 to a hog unless they try to make it hog proof. The best hog proofed ranches I have seen are low fence places.

I use the term "hog proof" very tongue in cheek.

Really size and numbers dont matter to me unless there is 0 hogs on a place, then what the point.

Start your younger dogs, kill some hogs, then when you get some killed out and they get harder to catch use your older dogs.

no no no , he wont let me kill any hogs , its training only .it is hog proof . i cant find the woods hogs, they have gone on vacation for the summer .  thought it would be fun to get some training in without covering alot of ground . im just afraid its gonna be loaded with dog killing europeans and the dogs educations will be cut short .

John,

     I might should have mentioned in my response that my dogs are loose baying. I don't worry about them trying to catch before a bulldog gets there.  If I was running rough cur dogs, then I might not use that setup for "training/ conditioning".