EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I would like to install a septic system to handle the waste in my "kennels". I will be pouring concrete in the near future and I need some help in basic plumbing.  I know that crap won't run uphill, and that's about where my knowledge ends. ;)   My kennels are 12x12 and I would like to have 3 kennels on one side, and 4 kennels on another side run into the septic.   I have clay soil, so I think I will need to use additional rock in my trenches, and below and around the tank, is that correct?   Also, based on the attached drawing, how much slope do I need to run the waste in a 4" pvc pipe with a starting point 24' from the septic? Will 1/4" per foot drop work?

I would like for the drain at the rear center of the kennels to be at grade, and if I can cover 24' of drain pipe with a 6" drop, can the top of the septic be 6" below grade?
Based on this article, http://www.gundoghousedoor.com/articles/sanitary_dog_kennel.htm  , it says that the tank needs to be 2" above grade. Why is this?
Can a single 55 gal poly barrel handle the waste of 3-5 dogs? Or do I need a secondary barrel to help?

With regards to the drain field, the turnouts on the side of the barn have a slope of about 1' in 40'. at the far side of each turnout is an open "drainage ditch" that eventually makes its way to the front of the property several hundred feet away. Can I get away with using perforated drain pipe, with a grated opening on the end, draining into the ditch on the side of the turnout?


Any thought or comments on this setup will be greatly appreciated.
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p204/ccoughran/CirceCbarnlayout.jpg)

you might want to check on a permit and get the specs city or county depends on location

Circle C,

With 3 to 5 dogs, you will want to use at least 2 55 gal. barrels.  As for your drop of 1/4", that is a good rule of thumb on human (house) systems.  However, it never hurts to go with a greater slop in a kennel setup.  As for the 2" above grade question, I'm not sure unless they have you coming with the down pipe from the top instead of the side 2" below the top of the barrel.  I did some new installs for a while between jobs about 7 years ago.  We did residential systems.  With today's technology, it may be wise to look into the plastic baffle covers instead of rock.  It may be more cost effective.  I have built several systems for other people's kennels.  I am acutally working on a slab now for a buddy.  He is just going to have his setup drain in a hole though.  One of my coon hunting buddies has a box blade on the back of his tractor.  He has a hole that is about 4 feet deep.  He surrounded it on three sides with a privacy fence.  His kennels slope into a concrete drain system that funnels down into a 6" drain pipe.  The top 2" of the pipe is cut all the way down, so he can spray the "stuff" down the rest of the line into the hole.  Once in a blue moon, he blades out the hole, and spreads a fresh bag of lime down.  If you do go with a tank or barrel, please keep in mind that dog waste does not break down like human waste.  If you look in Cabela's or Bass Pro in the dog section, they have waste containers for sale.  Just below them, they sell "enzymes" to help with the breakdown process.  The same can be acheived with simply adding human waste to your system when you are first starting out.  This is just as you picture it.  A 5 gallon bucket will work to get you going.  Not full, just a good start.

Buddy,
   Let's just assume that there are no city/ county permits required ;)


Cutter,

    Thanks for the info.  I do have a few more questions now.   I have been under the impression that you don't want too much slope in a sewer line, or the fluids will "outrun" the solids. Eventually leaving a buildup of solids in the line, though I am not 100% on that.  Do you know if there is a point that the line can have too much slope?

     Enzymes,   What happens when I rinse the kennel with bleach? I assume it will kill the enzymes in the septic...do I wait a day or so for the water to leach out, then add more enzymes?

     I am not familiar with the plastic baffles, but I have a source where I get my stone for free, so I think I will probably go that route, as it will save me some $$.

      I did a little more reading on the 2" above grade comment from the above link, it appears they are just cutting the top couple of inches of a galvanized garbage can, then bending the "lip" over to create an entry point for the waste to run into. Doesn't look like something I want to fool with. I would like my "system" to be sealed, with the exception of the entry point from the individual kennels, and the exit at the side of the turnout area.

While I have a very quick second, you may want to consider feeding a very poor quality feed.  That way there is no lasting sign of waste.  LOL

As for too much slope, I don't truely know that answer.  I will say though that your dogs are not using paper.  Are they?  The waste should do fine with a greater than 1/4" slope.  In my kennels, I know I spray more than a gallon of water in each pen.  My hose is full of pressure.  When you flush the toliet, there is between 1-2 gallons going down.  I would venture to say when I was all 8 stalls in the kennel, there is somewhere between 20-50 gallons being used.  That is a guess at the best though.  As for the bleach question, I try to bleach the pens down at least twice a month to cut down on bacteria and algae.  Currently, I don't use a septic, I use chickens to scratch the waste up.  They keep it turned over good.  I don't buy feed, but they do lay plenty of eggs.  Makes you want to come over for breakfast, doesn't it?

jmo
 i would use a couple of 55 gal barrels w/lids rigged in line and plumb clean outs in them ,,, just split a coupling in half to hold  the clean out stack on and the inlets and outlets then run 5-10 feet to your drain field t off to the two lines or pit  after  that  id run two perferated  lines  out 40 feet or so... keeping the drain lines some what level as you would in a house system block it up level with a 2x4 or 2x6 so that rock can get under it  and put  about 6 inches of rock over it then  you can cover it  with a good  layer of have or get you some of that paper made for septic systems (i forget its name)  then cove with dirt  making sure is a sandy type of soild and hump it so as no water will pool up,,,,, you should be good to go
    Dexter

We did just like you mentioned Dexter for a septic on a camper up the country.  Put a washout in the lid to use for a clean out and then attached 40' of large black plastic pipe to the barrel for a drain line.  We just used one barrel as it is a small camper that does not get used all that often.  We add enzymes to it though the washout when needed.
Matt

Make sure you have a way to pump your barrels out. even a proper working system will develop sludge in the bottom of your barrels after a period of time. eventually the sludge will reach the top of the barrels and start down the pipe to your leach field. This sludge is some nasty stuff. Remember clay does not hold much water, during the summer the water will evaporate. Take into consideration what is going to happen if you have two or three days of rain. Will your ditches fill up and back up into your grated opening into your septic system. I put in a 200 gallon tank if I remember right it took eight years before I had to pump it. Had 8 kennels 8' x 20', had 30 x 80 leach field. Plan for the worst conditions, days of rain and saturated ground conditions.

ive had a 55 gallon drum with a bunch of holes drilled in it and rock around it, has worked fine for about 10 years but thats in florida with sand though

you put two barrels  in line  i forgot  you need to put 90% on it  so  it will separate  any floating debris and catch all the solids some turds float,, filll both barrels with water just in case it  rains they wont float out of the ground,,,,
   Dexter

 sources :: learned  going to state of texas licensen board a few yrs ago
 dont grade my spelling :laugh:

Couple thoughts from a state licensed plumbing nerd... ;D

First, understand the theory of the septic tank then you can make one however you'd like...http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sheldonfarmseptic.com/images/septic_tank_bpi8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sheldonfarmseptic.com/How_Septic_Systems_Work.html&h=343&w=533&sz=28&tbnid=Vc7aFPL7-f-F3M:&tbnh=85&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPicture%2Bof%2Bseptic%2Bsystem&usg=__HhBCh2GhGMLU-tvrvtKrgL25WBI=&ei=H61nStDDO4KItgf11eTCBA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image
This picture is ok, just remember that the "T" on the outlet is the important part, as it keeps the floating solids from passing into the drain field, thereby clogging it up.  By positioning the bottom of the "T" at mid-tank, you're ensuring that only digested liquid material goes on.

As smwilson said, all tanks will eventually build up sludge and need to be pumped out, so an access would be ideal.

For cheap and functional, I'd just put two plastic drums in line, connected in the center by a 4" piece of pvc, siliconed in place.  The inlet should be high in the first barrel, the outlet should be the same height in the second.  About 20 feet of modular drain field surrounded with sand, and this would easily handle the load from 3-5 dogs.

As for slope, 1/8th inch per foot is ideal.

As for the drain field, there's a few options... if you're in a low lying area(high water table) you might want to go with a raised drain field, which would require a lift station(low end around $300) to pump the material "up hill".  If percolation is not an issue, then I'd use the chambered septic modules like this http://www.schroedersepticsystems.com/leachingchambers.htm.   Very easy to install, surround with sand and you're good to go.   Gravel is fine also, just make sure to cover with septic cloth to prevent silt from filling in the voids.  It should be noted that a good 50% of absorbtion in drain fields comes from evaporation, evaporation that is lost if the drain field is covered improperly... 10-20 inches of loose material over the field(AWAY FROM TREES) is ideal.

Bleach is the devil... consider blocking off your septic when using it...  Rid-Ex or other equivalent products are important for maintaining a healthy system.

For a free estimate call.... oops.... forgot I'm not at work ;D

Noah,

      Thanks for the info. You can expect a handful of Pm's filled with questions from me in the near future  ;D 

Just teach them to run over and crap on the neighbors lawn.....problem solved. ;D