EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Been told by old timers ivromectin causes hardening of liver for dogs . anyone with info please respond

I know that is a side effect but if administerd properly the bennifts out weigh the risk. All you need is a small amunt to control fleas and ticks. But a little more than that to control gastric parasites 1cc of  ivomec once a month is all you need. Heart gaurd has ivomectin in it but a very small dose something like.0025%.
One thing ivomec is known for is throat cancer so dilute it with water when shooting down throats which to me is best way of administration.  Injection works for cattle but dogs are not cows. So the chance of  intravenous administration is high.

To me personaly ivomec is the best thing that happened to dogs. Can even cure some manges under a different regiment of administration

yes to much can cause liver and kidney damage. 1/10 cc per 10 pounds of body weight.
You can't dillute ivomec no matter how much water you mix it with

Im gonna use this thread for a slightly differnet but relevant question.

What is everyones choice of wormer? and how much you use?

Ivomec?-liquid
Safeguard?-paste
Heartguard?-pill

Just keep in mind, of the three you listed, Safeguard does NOT prevent heartworms.

And ivomec only gets heartworms

My old time country vet told me to give half a cc ivomec  one Month panacur the next  . Ivomec get heart worms but not tape worms panacur takes care of the tapes . He did tell me to be careful with the ivomec becouse it will mess up there kidneys!!

Now im using nemex seems to be working .any one know any info on nemex ? I think its a weaker version of strongid t , smells tastes looks the same easy to give to your dogs it taste like banannas

I use nemex on all my pups. Great stuff.

I'm leaning towards one heartguard a month. $6 a pill at local feed store
 

Ok dilution might have been a a misleading word. BUT (Adding) water DOES making ADMINISTRATION easier.




And for me its ivomectin all the way.

Nemex is to expensive here were I live

Been using ivromectin for years and years.  This is my thought to much will ruin your dogs liver.  Also everybody wants to worm dogs with Ivromec but from what I have seen over the years is it is not for the stomach worms really.  The way we used it was each month to help kill and keep the heartworms out .  I give only 1/4 to 1/2 cc  in mouth to my dogs depending on how big they are .  As far as for the stomach worms this is how we used it and thought it worked.  You need to clean your dog out with regular stomach worm like panacure are any type of wormer that works for you then once the stomach worms are clean and you are giving the ivromec once a month for heart worm preventive what the ivromec does as we have seen once the dog is clean of stomach worms it will help keep them clean of stomach worms but just to give ivormec for stomach worms it does not do a very good job but it will dang sure help keep them clean .

My uncle is a vet, and warned me of the possible liver damage a lond time ago when I started using it. I got my lab when she was 8 months old. Had her checked, and started giving her 1/2 cc of Ivomec orally every 30 days during the summer, and every 45 days during the winter. She died from old age at 13 years 3 months and 3 days! Never once had any issues from it. Bulldog lived until 9years and change when she was hit by a car, same routine. I haven't ever had any issues with it. Have cleared up red mange with it also on another bulldog who had it bad.

I use ivomec monthly for heart worms. My vet tells me it won't kill intestinal worms if the dog has them but a monthly dose will keep them at bay with the exception of hook worms. Which strongid will do that and that I give every 6 mo. Just be careful buying it cause usually right next to the regular ivomec is the ivomec plus which they say will kill a dog.

Will it for sure prevent fleas?

Yes and ticks they will still try to go on the dog they just we ont hang around

Well hell this whole time Ive been pourin sulfur all over the yard for nothin thinkin I was preventing fleas

Ivomec does not repel or keep ticks from attaching to dogs. There are no properties in Ivomec that work against ticks, nor fleas for that matter. Years and years, myself and others around me have given Ivomec once a month as a heartworm preventative, but it does not repel or kill fleas and ticks, that I know for sure. I've heard a couple folks here and there that are under that misconception, but it is indeed a falsehood.

Yup dead on

Nemex and Strongid T are seperate brand names of the same thing...both Pyrantel Pamoate.  You can also find generic Pyrantel Pamoate much cheaper than the name brands.  Go to amazon.com and type in "Pyrantel Pamoate".

Best worming regimen is Ivomec monthly for heartworm prevention, strongid-t (Pyrantel Pamoate) monthly for broad spectrum worming, and tapeworm medication (active ingredient of Praziquantel) as needed.

There is NO single product on the market that is blended and can be dosed correctly to control all three in one administration.

  so as myself this is just one study done in india i'll find the other one done in England  .

       Effect of ivermectin on the brown dog tick, Rhipicephalus sanguineus.

Morsy TA, Haridy FM.


Source

Department of Parasitology, Faculty of Medicine, Ain Shams University, Cairo, Egypt.


Abstract


Ivermectin (Ivomec) proved to be effective in controlling R. sanguineus. All brown dog ticks infesting the treated dogs (subcutaneous injections) with 1.5 ml or 2 ml/50 kg dropped off within 4 or 3 days respectively. The dropped off ticks were completely inactive and died within one day or two. Ticks exposed to filter papers impregnated with 100 micrograms/ml (66.67%) died within four days. A dose of 1.5-2 microliters/50 kg eradicated Toxocara canis infection in four dogs, and caused shrinkage of Dipylidium caninum gravid segments in three. A general discussion was given with special reference to the contraindications and side effects of ivermectin particularly for human usage.


PMID: 10786024  [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

   the brazil study 


  MATERIALS AND METHODS

All experimental work was carried out at the Bambui Research Centre of the Oswaldo Cruz Foundation, Brazil, where a research concerning the effects of reinfection on the pathology of T. cruzi infection in dogs was conducted. The dogs were young mongrels, maintained in the Centre kennels since birth. They were infected and re-infected with two different Brazilian strains of T. cruzi, being all the details pertaining to the experimental design and parasite behaviour and strain characteristics presented and discussed formerly (Machado et al. 2001). During a sudden infestation of R. sanguineus in the kennels, affecting all the animals, it became necessary to treat them in order to avoid anaemia and skin infections, as well as to prevent possible interference of tick infestation on the course of the experiments. For this, all the dogs were treated with subcutaneous injections of ivermectin (Detomax ®) at 20 mg a.i./kg. Ivermectin is the 22,23-dihydro derivative of avermectin B1, a macrocyclic lactone produced by the actinomycete Streptomyces avermitilis, which is active against a wide variety of nematode and arthropod parasites (Campbell et al. 1983, Azambuja et al. 1985, Campbell 1985, Rey 1991, Cimermann & Cimermann 1999, Barbosa & Campos 2001, PAHO 2001). The present data are a product of a casual situation, in which some dogs experimentally infected with T. cruzi became infested by R. sanguineus, so providing the opportunity to observe the possibility of a natural infection of ticks by that flagellate, as well as the eventual action of ivermectin against triatomines and trypanosomes. For this reason the experimental design of the work involves natural limitations, certainly being possible and desirable further investigations.

Fourteen young dogs with a high degree of R. sanguineus infestation were included in the present observations. Group I involved six dogs in the chronic phase of infection with both T. cruzi strains; Group II involved six dogs in the acute phase of infection; Group III involved two dogs uninfected with T. cruzi.

R. sanguineus was determined by the authors and confirmed by staff of the Zoology Department of the Federal University of Minas Gerais. To measure the infection rate of R. sanguineus by T. cruzi before the treatment with ivermectin, five fully engorged ticks were collected from each dog. Their digestive tract content was examined both by direct microscopy at 400 times (100 examined fields) and after cultivation in LIT/NNN medium (30 and 60 days of culture at 28 °C, considering two tubes for each examined tick). Pre- and post-treatment parasitaemia in the dogs was assessed by daily examination of fresh blood films (Brener 1961, Machado et al. 2001) for a period of 30 days post ivermectin treatment. Xenodiagnosis of each dog was also carried out at 13 days post-treatment using 20 laboratory-reared 4th instar nymphs of Triatoma infestans. The faecal material of these bugs was microscopically examined after 30, 60, and 90 days, after which negative bugs were dissected for examination of their entire digestive tract content.

To assess the effect of the ivermectin treatment on feeding triatomine bugs, a xenodiagnosis box containing five 4th instar nymphs of T. infestans was applied for 30 min to each of the dogs at intervals of 24, 72, 144, and 312 h after ivermectin treatment. These bugs were then maintained individually and offered a weekly feed on white mice, in order to assess their subsequent survivorship over the following 35 days. To compare the effects on different triatomine species, ten 4th instar nymphs of T. infestans and ten 4th instar nymphs of Rhodnius neglectus were allowed to feed from the same dog 24h after ivermectin treatment. These bugs were then maintained for 35 days, with a bloodfeed on chicken offered after 15days, in order to assess subsequent survivorship.

 

RESULTS

Action of ivermectin against tick infestation - The ivermectin treatment appeared to be highly effective against R. sanguineus, leading to complete elimination of all signs of tick infestation of the dogs within one week of treatment. Two months later, however, some tick reinfestation was noted presumably due to ticks hiding within the structure of the kennels. Accordingly, ivermectin treatment was repeated, but accompanied also by residual spraying of the kennels themselves with deltamethrin SC (25 mg a.i./m2 ). No ticks have been found since then, either on the dogs or within the kennel structure. There were no discernable side-effects of ivermectin treatment on the dogs, confirming previously reported studies (Barbosa & Campos 2001, Campbell 1985).

Parasitism of ticks by T. cruzi - No evidence of T. cruzi infection was found amongst ticks collected from chronically infected dogs (Group I). However, one of 37 ticks collected from dogs in the acute stage of T. cruzi infection (Group II) showed by microscopy a sparse infection of flagellates. LIT/NNN cultures from these ticks showed no flagellates at 30 days, but one culture from 27 of 37 ticks (73%) showed positive at 60 days (Table I).

Influence of ivermectin on T. cruzi infection in dogs - Considering the opportunistic character of this observation, in spite of the natural limitations in terms of technical approach, no apparent influence of ivermectin treatment was discernible on T. cruzi parasitaemia in the infected dogs. All treated dogs in the acute phase of infection (Group II) presented detectable parasitaemia by direct blood film examination during the first three weeks of infection, with similar levels of parasitaemia to those observed in untreated dogs during other periods of the long-term study (see Machado et al. 2001). In our experience, dogs in the chronic phase of T. cruzi infection never present detectable parasitaemia by direct examination, and this was unchanged by the ivermectin treatment. Similarly, xenodiagnosis of chronically infected dogs did not reveal T. cruzi infection, either in ivermectin treated animals or in previously studied untreated animals (Table II).



 

Thanks for that post I have never had a flea and tick problem in my kennels and I use ivomectin religiously.  I also do NOT spray or bath my hounds .
Be it may they are still shiny coated healthy and worm, tick, and flea free.

You also CAN use ivomectin on dogs younger than 6 months old to rid Gastric worms but the only worm it dosnt effect is tape. Wd here use the cannondon wormer for the tape.

  yes I start my pups on ivomect @ 12 weeks of age and I have on occasion started them sooner when I was out of their regular wormer  . I have gone back thru many studies on the side effects of ivomectin and have yet to find one that confirms hardening of the liver .

Interesting reads. Thank you for sharing.

Well, all I know is what I've learned in my studies over the years in veterinary medicine, and, I personally have used, along with others I know, Ivomec orally once a month in my dogs for years and years, and we still pick up ticks when hunting, and we still have minor flea issues certain times a year. I sure do WISH that the Ivomec would kill and or repel fleas, and ticks, for us........

I am not discrediting anything you're saying HYPA Kennels, I am just going off of what medical knowledge I posses along with the years of personal experience I have had using Ivomec. I'm no expert by ANY means.  :)

I would love for them to make something to keep the flies away that wouldn't be so harmful to dogs and family members lord knows the dogs would be happy!
I too during hot summers when the grass around the kennels kinda go grey I will spot a tick or 2 in the kennels and even fleas but they dont become a problem they move on.....normally the house and then I hear it from my better half its kinda funny when we are scratching and the dogs arnt.....lol

But I truely believe that they are passing through they never are around longer than a few days then my wife stops grumbling and its buisness as uusual at the hypa house.


I have been working on dogs here locally for years im no expert either but have seen ivomec clear up the worst looking dogs . Usually the owner needs cleaning up b4 the dog.

The one I do know is once your dog is well into infestation of heart worms you ARE sending it to the grave when administrating ivomectin and that normally happens when someone acquires a dog from someone who didnt start the dog on a regimen early in life.


Thanks

Chris burner

Also....that one study....it said they had to inject 150lb worth sub-q in the dogs for it to kill brown dog ticks in a 3-4 day period. I certainly would not be fond of the idea of injecting that high of a volume of Ivomec sub-q into any of my dogs.  

Here's a small tid-bit of info on side-effects I stunbles across....( direct link: http://www.ehow.com/about_6566793_ivermectin-ticks.html )

Side Effects

Side effects may be one reason why ivermectin is not commonly used for ticks. Doses for heartworm prevention are 50 times lower than doses needed for the prevention of other parasites. Low or no side effects occur at these low doses, but problems may arise with higher doses. According to Washington State University's College of Veterinary Medicine, "Some dog breeds are more sensitive to certain drugs than other breeds. Collies and related breeds, for instance, can have adverse reactions to drugs such as ivermectin."

I have found NOTHING even on some really informative educational sites supporting the fact that Ivomec is effective against fleas. If anyone else does, please share. I only found the info Mr. Whitten already posted in regards to the brown dog ticks.

All in all, I will not be dosing my dogs that high, sub-q, nor orally on a once a month basis. I'd rather just go with remedies I know are much safer when need be.

I have given my dogs 1.5 cc's of ivomec 3 times in 15 days and all were fine and free of ear mites within 2 weeks...gave it to them just under the skin...this med might be toxic but usually takes quite a bit to actually become toxic...but I do remember all the talk about the collie breeds...

   no I don't use the high dose of ivomect either just posting the tick info . I use the standard dose for my heartworm prevention and I use permethrin 10% for fleas and ticks  works great and much cheaper  lol .

x2

  I guess them scientist were wrong ?