EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have been piecing together the lines on my Yeller dogs I originally started with in 1989.

Have spoken with alot of folks including plenty of old timers that have assisted me in linking dogs back 15 generations now.

But as always...there has to be a stopping point where info runs out due to timeframes and limited info of lost lines. 

Wanted to throw out some names and timeframes of the folks I have traced too but stalled out to see if anyone has some concrete info that could assist in goin back a lil further.

Any info would be appreciated greatly.

Dan Tullis pre 1955. Dog called Yella
Alvin Brown -Dog called Socks mid 70's
Ronnie Goolsby- source of dogs aquired in 1968
TC Pouland- Dog named Spanky, Elvira, King James
Clyde Ashcraft
Joe Tatum
Otto Thornton pre 50's
Simon Womack- Dog called Smokey
Gus Haney-  Dog named Bee

I don't know much but can relay to you what I was told about Ashcraft and Thorton. Ashcraft was from around Brazoria and was known to have excelent dogs. I was told they carried alot of Taylor blood. Taylor got alot of dogs out of deep east Texas and bred them with his name on them. The Thortons dogs show up in alot of old pedigrees. The family kept and bred a line of dogs for many years that were known to be top of the line. I was told both lines were used hard and culled hard.

Well I do not know a whole lot, but I know I have the last Ashcraft bred dog... John and his sons quit hunting a few years back and kept this dog just in case they got back in... He gave him to me and he is doing amazing. This is the Ashcraft family from around Van Vleck, Bay City area in Matagorda county. I will talk to john about Clyde and try to figure more about the dogs.

Thank you Bob.  Alot of these lines I am stumped due to the folks being deceased and their lines along with them.


Wine:    when you talk to him ask about a dog Clyde gave or sold to a Jimmy Fouraces. Unknown name of the dog should have been early 70's to late 60's. To make sure its the same guys.

Thanks to both of you.

the ronnie goolsby your talkin about is he from around the crockett area

Yes thas him.

It is the same Clyde. I just talked to his grandson an little and have talked to his son, John, a lot about their dogs. The dog I have is the last of the line, I am going to figure out what John and Matt did with the rest of the dogs. As far as I know John just told me he quit hunting and kept a few dogs for his son. Matt stopped hunting and got out, a good gyp got stole. I have Rowdy which is the last of their line of dogs. John told me when he gave him to me that he was it and breed him to my best. Well my best just came out of heat, so he is penned with what is in heat now (a promising showing young gyp). The I will breed him to my second best gyp, she has alot of east tx blood in her. I want to keep this line of dogs going, because I hear they where the bees knees in the day. I just have what I have to work with. Here is Rowdy.

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/jared_wine/20130425_154345_zps891a49ef.jpg) (http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/jared_wine/media/20130425_154345_zps891a49ef.jpg.html)

Clyde passed away 7 years ago. I will talk to John and see what information I can find out for you!

ok i was just wondering does anybody have any butch aronlds line of dogs

Very nice.

Familiar confirmations .......Looks like a thicket bred dog.

Nice legs and very athletic built frame.  Love his head and ear conformity also.
How does he hunt?

Also did you ask if he remembered the Jimmy Fouraces getting a dog from them years ago?

At one point I thought some of mine went back to Butches but I was incorrect.

Ray Modisette bred a gyp back to Butches Tiger dog not to long ago.

I personally love the way he hunts. He isn't like those dogs that will go 2 miles looking for a hog, but that's not how I hunt also. He is more of a medium range dog, but once he hits a trail his in it for the long haul. I have had to cut him off 2.5 hours into one hog picked him up about 3 miles from where I dropped him (I mean as a crow flies 3 miles... he ran like 7-8 to get there). He opens up once they break, not like wide open, just enough to let em know he is in it and ain't backing down!!! Strong loud bawling kinda bark. I know that when he goes down if a hog is in the area or has been recently he is gonna find it!!! I am going to talk to John sooner or later. He works about 40,000 acres worth of cattle so he is a busy man. I would like to get more dogs like Rowdy. Just straight up hog dogs, no BS, just find em and bay em kinda dogs!!! It sucks that he is it in the Ashcraft's dogs, but hopefully I will be able to keep what they had going!!!

Well from what the lines show.  These dogs go to some of Clydes 10 generations back on one side but it goes cold on that tree after Clyde. 

Go back 15 generations on the Otto Thornton end but peter out in the late 40's.

ok him and my dad use to work cows alot togther but all of dads dogs that he got from butch died before my time and i want one to cross with some other dogs that i know of that comes from that kind of bloodlines

OK I'll talk to John, Clyde's son, and see if He doesn't have any information on their dogs in the beginning, and where they got dogs from. Matt, Clyde's grandson, is supposed to come hunting on Saturday if he ain't working. I'll pick his brain on it for whatever he knows about them dogs. I know from talking to John before they had a pretty dang simple "program," "Keep the best, and cull the rest." They fed what worked and what didn't work fed the vultures. I'll ask John if he knows anything about his dad giving/selling a dog to that guy you mentioned. Do you have any dog names for me to throw out there to him? Them boys have been through some dogs I'm here to tell you. So anything that could spark up a memory might help me out.

No dont have dog names on either of the two. Just know that Jimmy had got a dog from Clyde and the offspring was identified in our ped tree. Can probably get the dogs name that was off of Jimmy's dog but might not be any help for you.  At the least I  would like to know what timeframe Clyde kept these dogs and who was the root source of where his original dogs came from.... and the beginning year of his keep.

10-4. When I can get John to sit down and talk a little I'll let you know.

From my understanding Butch still has some dogs but only one or two that came from his original stuff.  
Think Ray kept some pups off of the Tiger dog cross but uncertain. His daughter is on the site ...you could shoot her a Pm.

Looks a lot like a Florida bred dog. Does he catch

In 1988, Dr. Harrison bred a gyp to a dog that Clyde Ashcraft had named Bigfoot. He told Dr. H that Bigfoot's mother was Pearl and that both were from Taylor dogs. Also about that time Dr. H got a pup from a litter sired by Bigfoot bred to his dam Pearl. We called the pup Bubba and he was a really nice dog and sired some good pups used on cattle and hogs. According to the pedigree info from Mr. Ashcraft, Bubba's coefficient of inbreeding was about 31%.

He has the scar like he used to catch, but I guess he has gotten smart in his old age and sits back pretty good.... I just knocked on wood because I don't need him to catch and get killed on me!!!

Well I just talked to John a little bit. He doesn't remember his dad selling or giving a dog to that guy you mentioned, but he said that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He said they picked up on them Taylor bred dogs back 50-60 years ago and bred em up from there. Told me they just bred their line down to nothing, so they had to stop. I guess that is where Rowdy ends. They breed cow dogs now and leave it at that. He was wore out from this heat we are having so he wasn't too talkative. Next time I see him in person I'll talk to him a little more about them dogs.

Mr Long. Thank you for the info.  Any clue on timeframes when those dogs came over from the Taylors and also which specific Taylor held the line and further info on their dogs. When you mentioned pedigrees ....are they posted or mentioned on Altons board or your own personal peds? 

Wine. Thanks for inquiring. Anytime you can get specifics I would be greatful for the info past.

Seems like a major threshold shift occurred in numerous lines around the early 50's. That's when alot seem to have changed hands and the lines from 60-80's began.  I have so far three trees that end around 52 and info prior to that is sketchy at best.

YBM
Some are on Alton's board. I will check to see if the info Dr H had is there. The Taylor dog names were Porter, Jeff and perhaps others but no gyps were named. However, the timing, if correct, would imply Taylor breeding in the 80s rather than earlier.

I checked and those pedigrees don't go that far back. I will try to send to you tomorrow.

It is possible that the Ashcrafts got Taylor dogs initially and also additional dogs through the years to breed into their dogs. I know that breeding those two dogs, Bigfoot andBubba, into our dogs was really a good thing to do. They sired some really nice dogs.

Hmmm. That is a head scratcher. 

Mine go back here 7 gens to 89 and the ashcraft dog would have been 9 gen back. So figuring all gyps being bred on first heat for last three gens would put the Ashcraft dog mid to early 80's. The way his boys described to Wine is they held their line for approximately 50-60 years with Taylor bred dogs as their root ped. 

Possible on timeframes due to I have no dates on that side of ped past 86.
If Ashcrafts held line for 60 yrs that would put them aquiring their start around 53 +or-   

As you stated there could have been and very possibly were ....numerous crosses over to the Taylor blood...or the Taylor blood might have been reintroduced during the timeframe you mentioned as a freshen up cross. 

Will be interesting to see.

Who was the Taylor mans full name that began that blood and what area was he located?

See that is one thing that is going to suck. Since Clyde is no longer with us all we have to go off of is John his son. Now John is in his 50s I'd imagine so he has been around a good while for the dogs  he was not their in the initial years. But at the same time his dad probably said to him the dogs had Taylor blood in them. Apparently those dogs where very popular back in those times because another old dog man in this area used Taylor dogs to breed into his line as well.

I will talk to John whenever I can catch him in the pasture. He likes to talk dogs so he should let me know whatever he knows.

I pretty sure Mr. Taylors name was R.E. Taylor and he moved from the thicket area of Texas to Brazoria county. I don't know the exact time frame. He brought dogs with him and would go back to the thicket from time to time and get more dogs, put his name on them and sell or breed them. He must have known what a good dog was and where to get them because he came with some good ones. He must have been a pretty good breeder also because most dogs in that part of the world carry Taylor blood. The Simms dogs you see in pedigrees from time to time came from Taylor. Rocky Lewis from Brazoria knows a good bit about Mr. Taylor as does Mike Marshall.

Lawrence Simms does know quite a bit about those Taylor dogs.  He's a quite older gentleman, but I spoke with him not long ago.  I can get you in touch Miles if you'd like to pick his brain.

While to my knowledge I do not have any of this blood in my yard nor have I knowingly hunted behind any dogs carrying the blood that ya'll are speaking about I have enjoyed reading this thread. Hope ya'll find out some more info regarding these dogs, if you do please post it up. I enjoy reading about the old curr lines and breeders and the area's they came from.

Yessir rocky Lewis is who I was speaking of earlier. His grandson is on here and may be able to get more info from rocky on those Taylor dogs.

Yes Bryant if you wouldn't mind Pm me his #. I am always up for a history lesson from folks that got to live it. Thanks.

Flipping the convo to another tree.... Anyone have info on the Thornton or Tullis dogs?  Those are the lines that go back the furthest with mine.

Bob... any clue where RE Taylor aquired the dogs from up here? Or a general location and timeframe. Only a handful of folks that would have had those caliber of dogs years ago.  Was hoping if nothin else to narrow it down.

Thanks again to all gents.

There is another Taylor that shows up in some old pedigrees and had some people make sure I knew they were not the same person. Toby Robinson or Robertson from around Dayton could fill you in on that. I never heard anyone say for sure where R.E. Taylor was getting those dogs and I'm not sure of the timeframe.

Richard Brooks in Silsbee the 80's. with Chicken Charlie. 
Joe Allen Hooks brindle dogs

Ann x tiger pups ended up with 4 living butch got 2 and the female of his went to missouri(i think)
We kept 2 females and have a older male and female here at the house! Tiger died about 2 weeks after we bred her to him! We went to butches house friday and dropped the pups of! His grandson kayon hunts quite a bit!

T C pouland had one of the best line of curs I've ever had. I've had some of the best pups out of his line. An actually me an another man bought the last litter of pups from him in I believe it was 1999? Not real sure I know he passed away not to long after that. We had to craw under his house an get them pups an believe me it wasn't fun. Lol I had a dog I called buck I kept out of that litter that was outstanding. All of that litter made dogs would love to find someone with a female bred this way. I actually know where a dog is that is TC lines an his name is TC.

  TC as in ryan renyolds dog?

Corbett Pouland was the guys name. The old men I used to hunt with we're real good friends with him. They were Robert McDonald an his bro Mac that's how I came across his line I was assuming tht this was the line that we were talking about?

We are breeding a Pouland bred female to T C right now...my Dad bred and raised him...we have pups from 2 different litters off of Butches Tiger dog and most every dog we have goes back to the Clyde Ashcraft dog that was a cow dog that was given to a man that wants to remain anonymous when Jimmy Fouracres bred a yellow cowdog female that he got from Gaylon Havard to him and gave Clarence Quave a cripple yellow female that was bred to Gaylons Ole Yeller dog that is where my Dad's Cash dog came from who is in most all of our dogs...

U R right Kieth

Bout time you jumped on here Ray.

Here's where im at on that side of the tree. See if you have got to speak with anyone else since I talked to ya last.

Was back to two separate dogs from Corbit both unknown names and timeframes that came out of the Jasper Lawyers gyp.
Stumped at the unknown male dog from Clyde Ashcrafts that was sire to the Jimmmy Fouraces male.

On another side I went out and talked to Bennet Ray weekend ago and he took me back to Dan Tullis's dogs from where Bennet Ray got his start in 76. Tullis dogs went back to 55 but Bennet Ray didn't know who the source was for them.
The second side of his tree was from a guy named Alvin Brown. Unknown any type of info so far on him.

Any new info on these boys and the timeframes and sources for their dogs.
Also did Ronnie ever remember where his dogs originated from?

The dog of Jerrys came from a guy named Dykes that lived in between Woodville and Spurger...the Female ended up being from my Check dog and a female that was Spivey/Pouland bred...I havent had time to talk to anyone else

All of Ronnies dogs came from Otto Thornton a cousin of Henry and Jimmy but if you will go over and visit with Butch he can give you a lot of history that needs to be written down about Otto and many others...Butch and Billy Crowder had the same dogs that they bred back and forth every since the 40's

Yep would enjoy talkin to him.

Do you have any idea where Corbits dogs originated from and when he aquired them?

Yep but I will just have to write it down for you...

Issac how are you and Mollie getting along

She belongs to a friend of mine I let him have her she is doing great.  I also let him have missy I've still got little mama. I hunt male dogs an they just didn't want to do right an Molly didn't like them either lol