EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

This may be of interest to some.  Others may careless.

Real RCD's.   You know I always had some pretty ruff dogs but I never really ran what you would call a real RCD.

Me and my buddy T-Dog was talking this morning about real RCD's.  We were talking about this Cracker dog I got here so before we get started let me say this is not to be doing no bragging on the dog as some people on here will surely have a smart ass remark but because he is the only dog I have like this are that is around us in general .  Anyway about the Cracker dog because  T-Dog got to see him in person on a big toothy Boar he seen the whole deal up close as I have yet to be there when the action has gotton started and seen what is going on in person at the first hit .  Anyway I was telling him once I put this dog in the pack all the running stopped with these big boar hogs.  Now I had , had dogs that thought they were plenty bad in the past and they were but they were not real RCD's but damn great dogs,   as I was talking to T-dog about this Cracker dog he said there is a big difference in that Cracker dog and other dogs that are call RCD's.   T-Dog was saying the difference was that the Cracker dog when he gets there are is there ,  there is no doubt in his mind what he is going to do .  He is in fully committed to handing that boar hog his butt in a sling , there is no hesitation ,  he is bringing the heat,  am gonna mount your big ass and that's just all it is to it and its either you gonna kill me are am catching your big butt with no back up atall .  T-Dog was saying that is the difference between a great RCD and a wanna B RCD that are real bay busters.     We were also talking about him not being cut besides just a couple little scratches as of yet and he was saying that a dog that will fully commit and has no doubts about what he is doing is less likely to get cut and killed of course we all know it can and will happen at any given time but a dog that knows what he is going to do and will  fully commit seems to stay out of trouble a lot more than a dog that has doubts in his mind.

Anyway it was as always a interesting conversation with T-Dog about hog dogs because I sure do respect what the man has to say and a lot of times talking to someone like that they see things that another person may not see .  I have learned over the years this is a great great way to see things I might have missed and threw different eyes and just a great way to evaluate good dogs .

I bred this dog to three dang good gyps with the hopes am going to hit somewere in the middle between him and the gyps.  So far mine are looking damn good .

I agree on the RCD having to commit to the straight catch if they are going to work. Like it's been talked about before, if the dog bays for a few minutes and then grabs on when the opportunity presents itself, that's a rough dog but not a rcd. If the dog's gonna bay, then I want him to bay the entire time until help arrives, be it a catch dog or me with a gun . The bull dog crosses that I've seen that slow down and maul a boar have a much shorter life span than the ones that fully commit and will straight slam a hog. A bayed boar is assessing the situation just as much as the dogs are, if the shut down dog gives him a chance, he'll figure out what he needs to do. I guess what I'm saying is "Hesitation Sucks".

I agree with both of y'all. I run a RCD and he is comitted. Only seen him bar 2x once on a sounder once on a big hog in a briar patch with his nose stuck out. He would bark and hit it on the nose trying to get it to charge so he could catch. The rest of mine are real gritty. I thought they were catchy until I took him out of the race for a couple races. They bay till he hits then they catch. If a man is gonna run a RCD I think he needs a whole pack of dogs that will help catch.

Agree with both of yall.

Shotgun,  I tell ya getting that Cracker dog it helped my dogs big time and in turn they have helped him big time.  I think you need both that all work together,  he was the missing ingredients to stopping a lot of these big bad runners.   Because mine are ruff but not RCD ruff they would try a big one but sometimes could not hold him and with the addition of the Cracker dog boy that put them over the top.  Because now they got a sho nuff hoss with them and when he cracks the whip they are all right there with him on top of the big hog and its a pile drive party .  The same as the Cracker dog he needs help sometimes just like all dogs do at one time are another in their lives and they help him by all pileing on and each getting a holt .  Also when all are on top of the big hog with each a mouth full it helps control the big hog as far as the damage he can do . 

Excellent Point that you both brought up. After having it handed to me a couple times this summer and many times before that, I've come to think that on a hog that really has the ability to throw a pack and run, it's the Second and Third dogs to make contact that make the difference. If you have a freight train, no wait- type dog that's going to slam everything hunting with a pack of loose style dogs that aren't going to grab and anchor, then you get dogs smashed.

b.b.b. ,  Since I got this Cracker dog and put him in the pack that I have and I ordered him a really good vest and I got one for my other dogs these vest are in between a 6 ply catch vest and a regular ole bay vest so in other words these vest have four layers in the chest and three on the sides and they are long vest I don't like short vest leaves to much open area . The cut collars are attached to the vest.   All dogs wear a vest that I run so far knock on wood and threw all the big boar hogs that they have been threw this year with the Cracker dog nobody has been bad cut.,  nobody.

I think it is due to what we just talked about him helping them and them helping him and to the new vest I ordered from P&P.

Also I would like to say.  That everybody thinks you just got to have one hell of a ruff pack of dogs to do this sort of thing its not so much ruff as it is smart type dogs that can adapt .  What I mean by that is this .  Adding one certain dog in a pack such as the Cracker dog can make the other dogs ruff when they are not really that ruff with out a dog like him in the pack dogs that adapt .  In other words I can leave this Cracker dog home and my dogs go back to the way they were .  Ruff to Semi Ruff they will catch what they can and back off and try to hold a big rank boar hog .  Add the Cracker dog to the mix and boom you got a pack of T-Rex's that all work and catch no questions asked .   So this is what I like about mine anyway.  I wanna go hunt with somebody that ain't got so ruff type dogs leave the cracker dog home ,  Wanna go hunt with the T-Rex kinda people come on just add the Cracker dog .  I love it myself .   One dog can change the whole complexion of a pack of dogs .

Yes! Absolutely nailed it about too many people wanting a rough pack of dogs over a group that can adapt. A group of dogs that are smart enough to know who's on the ground, who's going to try first, and when to help out is a group that will put down big hogs consistently. When there is a dog like your Cracker dog which will be looked upon to make the first move and he's hunted over a period of time with dogs that are smart enough to realize when he's not around they need to loosen up, then you've got something. If the guy with the roughest dogs caught the most pigs, everyone would be running half bulldogs. It's all about having a pack that can read each other and know when to adapt the game plan. When you hunt a pack a couple hundred times together with the same line up, a dog worth their feed will find their place and they learn to read each other. Dogs who keep exchanging hands and going to a new yard never find their role. That's how you end up with a super rough dog in a bad situation.  A smart line up of dogs that has been hunted together for a couple years and know each others' style is the best answer for bad boars. Not a bunch of buzz-saw type dogs working for themselves.

I have always tried to tell folks that each dog has a job .  Not every dog is the same in a pack they all different in someways .  Some not so much different from the other ones but there is differences.   That's why I said when I got the Cracker dog I don't care one damn bit if the dog will find a hog which now I know he will but that is not why I wanted him I wanted him to add the stopping power to these dogs but I needed a dog that would stay out and hunt with my lead dogs so that he could be there on the intial strike and stop the run before it could get started not one that sit on his ass at the wheeler till the strike  .  I don't think a lot of folks realize how important it is to stop the running before it gets started because once it gets started then everything goes to hell .  Number one ,  the hog breaks he runs 300 yds stops and fights that is 300 yds of hard running to get him stopped the dogs are that much more tired.  Then the hog breaks again this time he goes 400 yds and hell to get stopped well there you go dogs are getting more and more wore out and less and less likely to stop the hog each time he breaks not to mention a tired wore out dog is gonna get his ass killed are hurt real damn bad,   the odds go up and up and up each time the hog breaks.  These dogs of mine already had some stopping power but they just needed the real deal stop dog that would stay with them to be added ,   once it was added to them then they added back to him each in his are hers on way.   They all like you say look to him and with no hesitation he is gonna catch as soon as his mouth gets on the hog each dog grabs and after so many hopefully the hog is controlled and that is not to mention soon as I hear a bark am turning a Freight Train loose that is coming in at break neck speed so ,  RCD catch, other dogs Catch and by that time the Fright Train is there to mop up and we are right behind him .

Just me man and what I have learned !

Want a different set of dogs want to hunt the old way strike, bay and they catch what they can and if they can't they try and hold it till the catch dog gets there .

Adapt!

 Because let me tell you if I have one of them kind that cant adapt and understand and trys to catch everything will not back off when he needs to,  a wanna B,  he is outta here same way is if I got one that aint gonna help the Cracker are RCD  when he is in there ,  he is gone faster than the bay buster !

Adapt ! are be gone !

Can't put it any better than that. Agree with you 100%.

VERY TRUE I AGREE ..

I posted these in a earlier topic wasn't specifically talking rcds but it applies even more so to the
 IMO.
I want the dog to lock anchor and roll with the hog pull/tuck into the body when it's a spinning match . When he does end up in front I want him holding not fighting to drag the hog around or trying to shred his ear. while he is holding he still need to move offset with the hog as it moves keeping his body as far away from the head as possible.

Jimmy...x2 on what you said...one dog goes in and the rest pile on...and ideally the dogs will be smart and protect themselves from injury as much as possible...

hog hunting is a tough sport...sometimes it's dam of you do or dam if you don't...  :-\

Texas, Have you tried runnin cracker one out?  PLease dont take this as bustin on your dog cause i surely aint.  It been my experience with these Fl dogs, that if they have anything there with them they turn into bulldogs, but you run theem one out they will catch most hogs under 200 but bay the bad ones, until somethin else gets there to help.  The other thing ive noticed is the older they get the less they tend to catch on their own. 

My 8 year old Jack dog used to catch EVERYTHING, help there or not.  The older he gets the more he waits for backup.

To me a RCD will anchor anything everytime, regardless of havin another dog on the ground, which is the only reason i asked if youv run him one out.

No have not got to try it yet.  After I got him and didn't really know a thing about a Fla cur at all at that time.  After I hunted him,  watched him and all this played out,   we stopped quite a few big boars big tusky boars with him I knew it was no accident are just luck,  it was just to much and to many to be a coesidence .  I then verified his breeding with Mr Partin .  Then as it got into the hotter months he had some trouble with the heat and that's when I found out he had got into a pretty big bind with a big rank cow and had some pretty good heat exhaustion and some other injuries from that ordeal .  I knew right then that was what the breathing problem was in the hotter weather.  So I put him up for the summer and bred him to three of my good gyps before something happened to him cause I figured I would never get my hands on another one after finding out how hard they are to come by n the first place.

I have no doubts this dog can find a hog am sure he has found some already he is always with the find dogs  right there every time, as far as stopping and catching aint no doubt about that he has done that a ton of times and big hogs.   The thing is he never barks only time I have heard him bark is here on the yard if somebody he dont know walks around back there are in his chain space,   he will flat out eat a man up and D-bone your butt if he don't know you serious serious dog,  hunting anybody can handle him.

It gets the cooler months I will sure nuff try him out at that.

No arguement on these dogs being catchy.  Everyone Ive ever been around will catch, and most of them the younger they are they more they catch.  It takes age and gettin a woopin a few times to get them to back up and bay and wait for the cavalry.  Now a few of the ones ive had would catch a 500 pounder with 10 inch razor sharp teeth if a miniature poodle showed up to help them out, for the most part they all just naturally figure out what they can handle alone. 

I hunt my Bentley dog solo.  He's  100% trail & catch.   I like being able to load one dog and g oput swine on the ground

Jimmy...you are 100 percent right...I have seen hog doggers think that all his dogs in the pack are awesome but someone else might see the truth...take out the strike dog and the pack will not find hogs... or you take out the stop dog and most hogs are breaking...it is good to be able to analyze each dog correctly and honestly from within the pack...it is good to know these things and be thinking about acquiring more than one of each...a great pack of dogs can be a mix just like a football team...if all the players were built and played just like the quarterback the team would be in trouble...same with a hog dog pack...and like you said...the more the hog gets to break the more exhausted the dogs get and the thicker the brush where the hog gets to hide and rest...this is how I see it as well...

Yeah Rueben its just plain tuff trying to breed and get everything just right .

I like well rounded dogs Nose, speed, quickness, staminua , wind, hunt, brains, grit, power.  But its hell to get all this into one dog all you got to do is just look around on the board you will see people talking about all of this .  Now what is the number one thing everybody is complaining about.   It is without a doubt the ability to stop and keep a big bad hog in one spot.  Stop and think about it , it is almost impossible to do it if the big hog wants to run and I don't think we gonna have much arugment that most hogs do want to run and if he wants to run you better have something that is gonna get on his head and stay there with other dogs helping till the catch dog and you can get there are else you are going to the next county . Also its not hard to see that this is what the hogs are evolving to as we speak.  We can talk about great nut dogs and great assend stoppers all everybody wants to but they are as rare as frog nuts !  If not then why is the board full of people talking about running hogs till the cows come home and big bottom dogs are needed to run them till their lungs pop.  Noting at all wrong with big bottom dogs that is a great great thing noting wrong with that at all, unless you are like me and don't want to chase them all over the country and back and do not have the land to do it . I would not want to do it and would not even if I had the land but that's just me and everybody is different and has different opinions.  So what do you do ?  These super nut dogs assend  stoppers are as rare as frog nuts and as hard are even harder to breed and get as great great find dogs.  Well I say you combine all this .  You combine well bred and long blooded dogs that are known for their stopping power and other things to the dogs that come from well bred long blooded lines that are known for great finding and athletic ability.  Then you fine tune it !  This is real work, time consuming blood sweat and tears and nobody wants to do it are have no ideal how to even start doing it .  Everybody these days seem to be fast lane aint got time for this are that and the here and now people its just not like years and years ago when peoples lifes were dedicated to figuring out these sorts of things,   but it can be understood because the world is not like it was 50/60 years ago .

Am working on mine only father time will tell if I can even come close to getting it right !

I agree 100% with everything you say. My question for you Texashogdogs and anyone else with experience on here is wouldn't it be much more attainable to just breed good well known stopping blood to other good well known stopping blood and continue to get a high percentage of top notch stoppers, and keep breeding good producing strike dogs to good producing strike dogs and continue to get a high percentage of good strike dogs and just hunt them together instead of trying to breed the one super dog that is great at everything? Not saying you shouldn't try to breed for a super dog but I'm just guessing the first way might get you better results in the short term and long run, cause breeding superdogs might take a life time and then you still might never get them, in the mean while wouldn't you want to be catching tons of hogs?

Please understand this is just a question from a guy with experience with bulldogs and very very little with hog dogs. Breeding bulldogs everybody is always trying to get the perfect well rounded dog, but I seem to think with hog dogs they have the advantage of being able to hunt more than one at a time so since you can run two or more I would want to use it. Kind of like you said originally texashogdogs about them working together.

Yes sir. It makes a ton of sense if you got yourself a line of those stoppers .  You see I only had one of those till the other day when Rooster brought me the little gyp cousin to my dog.  But now I got to wait till she gets up and proves herself to breed her to him and get all that going.  Mean while all I had was Cracker so I bred him to my line hoping it clicks and everything meets in the middle which Am sure there is going to be a bunch that is either on his side are the dams side which really that is fine also.

But hex yeah man run that line of stop dogs with your find dogs as long as the stop dogs are going to get out and be hunt with your find dogs,  to me that is the key the stopping dogs have got to be there when the strike is made to stop the running before it gets started because ones the big hog bolts that's when it turns into hell .  He are she needs to be on the spot and commit with the others helping.

I went ahead with the Cracker dog and crossed him on my line not knowing Rooster was going to send me that little gyp  .  Am glad I crossed tho because now I can see how it will all work out with all this offspring and go back to which ever side of the family I need to go when I get ready to breed one of them .

Hell yeah man you are correct .

I got a little story to tell ya .  You know here about I guess two years ago right before Cory moved back to Lufkin.  I had just gotton this Bo dog of mine who is my catch dog.  Well me and Cory have hunted this one place for four five years and has some damn big boars on it and bad to the bone.  We have been on them more than a few times and had our asses handed to us .  Well when this Bo dog is athletic as hell man fast fast lots of speed and just built for the kill you know what I mean and the size to make it happen.  Well I got the ideal of just letting him run with my dogs like a RCD but he would not allways stay out with the find dog he would try but just got a little winded here and there but for the most part he was right there.  Well in three days time we got and caught three boar hogs .   352 lbs - 330lbs and I think the last one was 297 lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Got the pics to prove all of it.

The Bo dog was right there on everyone of them when the strike dog struck on all three !

I think that explains itself .

The only thing that worrys me about this kind of hunting is if the dogs get way way off and you cannot get to them now that worrys me but it is trading out one thing for another .  I guess you just call it hog hunting !

Forgot to mention .  There was very little running if any which I don't think there was no running at all .  Just Boom !

Yeah that is what I was thinking as long as they are there when the hog is struck and you are not too far off, then you got yourself a well oiled machine. Yeah I seen a pic of your new one, if she makes it they should make you some nice black and tans.

Question was Bo a bulldog or a american bulldog?

Oh and I forgot to say and if your new one does make it to be breed to your cracker dog, put me on the list if you let any go.   ;D

Just a reg ole Pit don't even know how he is bred but he is a good one.

If I was gonna try it with a Pit game dog it would be inside the Bolio type line of dogs some dogs with Gonzales No Regrets type blood in it.  The old Klaus Zeke type of dogs.  A whole lot of ear type dogs inside those lines of dogs its just natural.

Red Boy / Bolio type would be great you get your size from Red Boy plus a lot of other and the Bolio would bring the natural ear type dogs.  The wind in both lines is great and so is the gamness.   You might even have to  water it down some later on because of the heat in those pit lines of dogs but then again you just never know to you get to messing with them .

Bolio dogs would be a great choice, they tend to be pretty smart too.

Mine are RB/Jocko x Bolio/Tombstone crosses and they are pretty good size in regards to gamebred dogs. I think I told you about the breeding im doing in dec, they should be pretty good size.

therednose...what is the average weight on your dogs? I bred a very good cur dog to a pit bull of unknown blood but have 3 generations of catch dogs...hope to get a few super rough pups that aren't running catch dogs...just smart catch and release to hold the hog till I get there...no RCD for me...they will over heat/die or get killed...

Well on the upcoming breeding the mother walks around about 53lbs prob about 46 fully conditioned and lean, the sire walks around about 70-75lbs about 60-63 conditioned so im thinking they will prob stay within those two dogs weights, but we will see. Both parents are real smart. Mother is super hot though, father will run free with the other dogs as long as they know he's the Alpha I dont own him a friend does.

that's about the right weight of bull dog to breed to a cur...JMO... I was looking exactly for that but didn't know anyone around here with that type of dog...I was looking for a streamlined leggy dog that was smart, quick and agile with lots of stamina...

IF, IF you can get a big sure enough RCD that will stay step for step with your baydog or finddog or strikedog or whatever you prefer to call your hogdogs, you can catch some big hogs that would have otherwise ran for 4 hours. The problem with that is keeping them alive. We started about 4 years ago crossing the biggest, roughest curdogs  out of the dogs I've been breeding with a couple of female bulldogs that a buddy of mine owns just to see what would happen. We bred a curdog I used to have named Patrick to the bulldog below and then a son of his to this same female bulldog..What we got were some big, leggy, straight catch dogs that also had speed and wind and were calm and smart ... Two of them are used as walk in catch dogs right now and are as good as I've ever hunted with.
It does work but the biggest problem with them is the curdog in them gives them more bottom than a normal bulldog so they can get way off and get caught on a bad hog for a long time before you can get to them. So only 4 of 15 dogs lived over 3 years..

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=234529

Reuben it is a AI breeding due to logistics, but if you are interested hit me in the pm and I will give you more info on the breeding.

Great point! Kind of what was said earlier if you can stay close enough to them is the trick to keeping them alive it sounds like.

Do you have any pics of that cross you made with your bulldogs and your curs?

Sue at a year old and about 60lbs..
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/Hogs%202011/0507111056c_217375.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/Hogs%202011/0507111056c_217375.jpg.html)

3 littermates at 9 months old.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/Hogs%202011/P4231763.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/Hogs%202011/P4231763.jpg.html)


(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/Hogs%202011/0529111047b_227107.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/Hogs%202011/0529111047b_227107.jpg.html)

Kalevra and Sue
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/Hogs%202011/0212111216a_237224.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/Hogs%202011/0212111216a_237224.jpg.html)

Amber
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/Hogs%202011/0205111247b_285484.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/Hogs%202011/0205111247b_285484.jpg.html)

Tate and Gibbs at a year old.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/IMG_2771.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/IMG_2771.jpg.html)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/chainrated/IMG_2772.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/chainrated/media/IMG_2772.jpg.html)

chainrated...those are some nice looking hogdogs...

chainrated

Yeah that's a big deal is how to keep them alive .  You don't want to much range but then again you want enuff range that to me is the million dollar question.

That Daisy Mae gyp is bred up good real good.

Jimmy...from what I have seen I want a dog that is somewhere between a rough strike dog and a RCD....I want dogs to stick but stop the hog at the first chance they have to do so...and a true rcd will over heat sooner or later from staying caught when no one can get to him right away...or from taking s bad hit...it is s fine line...if my gyp took I probably will breed down to a quarter pit...

We are on the same page Reuben. I think you are limited to how many hogs you catch in a morning when you have those all out catch dogs because of injury, or just plain old fatigue from being caught too long. I hunted a whole bunch with a dog that was cat/bluetick. He was gonna catch the smaller hogs but bay the bigger, ranker hogs. He would stay bayed for hours without the hog(s) breaking because he had them in check. I can't tell you how many hogs we caught that had one or both testicles hanging out. I was reading in a different post and people that were for and against the dogs that want to grab one in the jewels. To me the difference in a hog that stops when bit in the rear and one that keeps running is the dog doing the biting. If they just pinch it's probably just gonna push the hog, but if they get a hold and stay a hold till the hog stops, that hog figures out pdq that he's not being bit as long as he faces up and protects that back end. That's what this dog did. We drove up within feet of him on big hogs in the wide open that were sitting down, sometimes on his head. If they got up to run he would CATCH them in the butt until they sat back down and then he would back up and bay. When you got the hog caught he would roll over to another. That is the style I want. It's a goal that I most definitely believe is possible. Chainrated, those are really nice looking dogs.

That's what am looking for Tdog.  That's what am looking for but its hard to get .  Am hoping that these breedings make some like that .  I know am gonna get the RCD dogs but really really hoping I can get the nut amputater's not just a dog pinching them one that gets a mouth full and makes them sit a big big big difference and hell of a hard to find !