EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

What are some of yall methods of getting your dogs to roll out on other hogs after you get to the bay. All of my dogs are fairly young but I can't seem to get them to get off the caught hog and find another one

I strongly believe its something thats in the blood if they have they have it, if not they dont.

I dont know how you teach it, but I know the day my gyp started to roll out on another hog.

My lil gyp was almost 2 years old and I would say that she was started at the time, but fit more into the "help dog" category.  I was hunting in South LA on the edge of some crawfish fields and there were a lot of hogs.  We caught three hogs within the first hour or two.  She just happened to be in on all three of the bays, but I dont think she found any of those first three hogs.  After the third hog (while we were carrying the hog out) my lil gyp was walking in front of us  and she must have hit some real hot track.  She shot out like a bullet and went 200 yds or so and bayed by herslef.  I looked at my buddy and he looked at me and thought hat dang; she has found her first hod completely solo and bayed it.  Now I have to add, I never let baydogs just hang around a caught hog and damage the hog.  I always try to get baydogs back.

I can say with almost 100% certainty, that she has rolled out on almost every hog after that.  Didnt matter if she was cut or not, she had to roll out and look. I think the way you start to get dogs to roll out is not letting them stay and a caught hog.  As soon as the hog is caught and secure, get your dog and try to get them back out in sign.  Let them know that a caught hog is not allowed to be messed with.  Obviously this is easier when you have a lot of hogs; there is a greater chance of getting on more sign right away.  It would also help if just after a hog was caught, your dog could hear another dog bay; this teaches that there is more than one hog in the woods. Not sure if this is the right answer or helps you out, but it is my experience.

On another note, I think cur dogs and catahou;la or working breeds of dogs are easier to train on this than hounds.  I say this becuase I have 5 hounds and they wont leave a caught hog for aything.  It aggrevates me, but that is they way mine are.

I have a couple of bay dogs that I have to catch at every bay or they will keep biting and tare the hog up but I have a couple that when I leg the pig and tie it they kinda stand guard over them not really messing with it but don't want to leave

Pretty much what hoghunter says. It is defentley easier when you have a lot of hogs. If you want them to roll out & they will not, sometimes you have to get rough with them. You have to make them understand once a hog is caught, they are not to be messed with & like Jon said, calling them away from the caught hog to get them to go hunting again.Also you cannot tie them up. They will never learn if they are tied back.

I believe it's genetic.  

I'm not saying you can't make any one of your dogs roll out, but it's an uphill battle, I know I been there. It always helps to have an older dog that will roll out, but just don't let the dogs stay chewing on a hog.  A leash works wonders when the dogs won't leave your feet, make it uncomfortable for them to be there if you are by yourself.  If you are hunting with someone else, catch the dogs and walk them away coaxing them to go hunt, if they go back to the hog whip them off a caught hog, they'll learn the difference and it won't hurt them.

I totally agree, I also think its genetic, ive had some dogs that would shoot out of there once caught but hell Ive had some that would follow it until I loaded it up. I think that its possible to train them to do that but I just have no input on how lol. I know that some guys dream of dogs that would roll out after caught but not all dogs will do it. Its really a coin toss on getting your dog to it.

Thanks everyone for all the help my wife and myself started hunting hogs with our house dogs and added a few dogs here and there we don't really know all the tricks to training dogs our dogs kinda figured it out on their own and we r learning too thank y'all for the help

I will have to disagree, it is not genetic it is Discipline, you have to get the dog attention. I don't main beating the dog but get the dogs attention. I have said this before, I teach my dogs three commands (Get Back) (Load Up) ( And the Call to Come Here) I start this as a pup.
Training, I use to have small hog pin about 50y by 100y, I would get about 3 or 4 hogs around 125lbs and have the dogs bay, I would go in with a catch dog and catch one, the dogs or pups would see the other pigs and would rather bay them than get hit buy the a 1" PVC pipe ( PVC works good because it is flexible not like wood). When the dogs leave to go bay the other pigs then turn the pig loose and start all over again.
Hope this helps.

Lol...some dogs do it with no discipline... So yes... It has got to be genetic.

It can also be taught. Not that I've tried to hard with my dogs....but I should.

agreed

I don't want mine to roll our on their own, I'd rather give the command to get ahead after the hog is caught but I got 2 here that roll on their own and it makes for some long days, also can be dangerous when it's 100 degrees out.

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Yep Ben...when I hunt with Blake and his Tater dog....sometimes by the third or forth or seventh hog, lol....we look at each other and say "grab Tater before we leg the hog"...lol

I got a gyp that will leave out as soon as the cd's are caught good if there is a good sign, but if they just get one hog lined out she will stay help catch until the pig is killed then she will go try n start another one!  But I just think it's something they gotta wanna do I don't think it's something you can train or make a dog do!

X2

You know you own a HOG DOG when you put more energy into catching the dog then the hog cuz you're wore out from tying hogs all day behind him.

Yeah Ben....those kind are the kind you love.....and sometimes hate  rolleyes

I believe it can be trained...but I would rather cast the dogs back out myself than try to catch the dogs when I want to go home...

Before you 100% believe the Genetic stuff, you may want to do some research.  Google dog genetics and focus on DNA, Genes, Allels, and other basic terminology.  I think you will find that genetics is more closely aligned with things such as color, size, hair coat, and other anatomy and physiological similarities. 

Yup, rolling out, hunt, bottom, bay style and so forth, it's all training. If you try hard enough you can train any dog to hunt, roll out have endless bottom and all that jazz.



 ;)

ah ha... ;D

what about shutting a hawg down? Is that also trained t-bob? I need to find a trainer to help my pack shut down every hog and then roll out. I am gonna go cull all my pups and go to the pound for some grown dogs to train. This thread has saved me a bunch of time and money. Thanks ethd!!!!

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Yep, what's the point of raising pups when you can train any ol grown dog..

Haha

Lol, ya'll crack me up!

Be in the hogs where they are thick and have a favorable wind. I have had my dogs roll out once. We got in a big sounder and caught 1. The hogs went into the wind and it was a pretty decent wind blowing steady to the dogs. They rolled 100yd caught. We grabbed it same situation. 150 caught again. Same again they went 200 caught. We caught 5 in probly 30 min. After we had hunted 7hrs to catch 2. My dogs haven't rolled out since. I think the wind was the major factor that day and if given enough chances like that I think they might learn.


Shotgun
Arkansas

For the guys that think it is genetic (given that you want this trait) please tell me your success rate in breeding this gene?  Do all of your dogs roll out and at what age does this genetic trait start to show?  If rolling out is a gene and is genetic- surely almost all of the dogs in your breeding program do this consistently- right??

One more question- if this is genetic and you have this in your program and you hunt in an area with a very low hog population, would this trait remain in the dogs over time even if they were unsuccessful in finding another hog due to limited hogs in the area?

The ORIGINAL "Tater" dogs do it and they weren't TAUGHT to do it.

Those same dogs have some offspring or close kin that are young dogs but are starting to do it as well.

How much farther down the line that traits gonna travel.....not really sure....we'll see.

I agree I think the wind might be a factor in this I have one dog that has rolled out 3 different times one time hunting with Kevin  one time was in a sounder but didn't find any more hogs the other time caught a little sow rolled out and bayed another sent a rugh old dog to her but he couldn't hold it by him self it got away

I don't have a "breeding Program" so All I can say is all the ones I've gotten from my favorite line go roll out after a caught hog.  And I can answer about a low hog population. I have plum crappy hunting spots with next to no hogs and even though they usually don't find a second one on my spots, they do quickly leave the caught hog and make a decent circle around the bay area to see if they smell a different track than the one they bayed on.


And heck yeah Peachcreek, there's several guys on here who have said they can train your dogs to shut down a runner!

Not me, I'm not much of a dog trainer, I need dogs that'll take me hunting...  ;)

Gotta teach a pointer to point birds. Labs to retrieve.  Border collies to herd. Bulldogs to catch(whatever moves). A true game bred to be game.  A heeler to heel.  If specific trait are bred for intensely and extensively then yes someone could have a whole pack of rollin out dogs. But that is only one trait in a myriad of many traits that some one may or may not want and probably isn't the lone factor that is being bred for.

You may want to go back and re-read. The ones I've "tried" to understand, lol....have said that hunting traits ARE genetic but as of this time they have NO clue which genes control which traits.

You think your plotts hunting skills just materialize out of thin air?  :-\

Obviously genetics play a HUGE roll in the hunting traits a dog passes on to its offspring. Nose, Range, Gritt, Bottom and YES rolling out can all be passed down.

Most of mine will roll out after catching a hog... no training involved.
We've discussed the training vs genetics on here more times than I can remember.

You can't train the hunt, drive and want to in a dog... they either have it or they don't. No "trainer" has proven me wrong yet.

Hoghunter71409,

If rolling out was something that could be taught, why haven't your plotts learned from you little gyp to roll out?

If she's rolling out and finding hogs, then according to you statement you would think Atleast one of them plotts would have caught on by now...

Not downing your dogs, just trying to make sense of what you said..

I dont have a line of dogs but i have seen mikes black dogs consistently roll out after a catch for the last few years. His Tweety dog did it. Her daughter and son did it. Her grandsons hunter and styker did it. Three or four of the Tweety Obama pups do it. And the two 10 month old pups out of hunter we have been hunting do it. This is in low hog population areas mostly. I have seen it time after time. Its not that they are following an older dog or anything they might go in opposite directions, they just go hunting. I have a couple dogs from different lines that roll out after a catch as well, these dogs were doing it from 9 months old. The dogs i started out hunting with wouldn't leave a hog until you killed it and even then it took allot of convincing. To me if a dog truely likes to HUNT they will roll out. So i think it is genetics mostly but might be able to " train" a dog that doesnt come by it naturally. Just my two cents

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Haha. Guess ya beat me to it

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I think with some dogs it can be trained only because they are already good hunting dogs...but just like most good hunting dogs...they are born to do it naturally...that trait is not one that I care for...trying to catch a dog before catching the hog...makes it for a long night when one is ready to go home...

I'll try to re-explain.  If it doesn't come out right, than I'll just go to bed dream about deer season being over so that I can get back to hunting instead of flapping my jaws on this forum.  I absolutely  believe that hunt, gritt, nose, speed, color, hair texture, height, and weight, are genetic.  When dogs are chosen carefully, these traits can be passed and in some cases strengthen or in some cases weakened.  If a dog has a tremendous amount of hunt in it, the dog is likely to smell another hog track or work his way back to a pack and find another hog.  I call this hunt!  Some dogs have a lot of "hustle" they go run everywhere and check every bush, and if there is a hog around they are going to find it.  So many different dogs have hunt and so many dogs have different varriations of speed, grit, nose, hunt, and hustle.  Just like there are varriats of color, size and weight.

I don't think roll over is clearly defined enough to call it a trait/genetic make up.  A dog does it or does not do it.  Some do it once and never again and a reason they may do it could be wind or another hog real close by.  Some dogs roll over once in a while and then they don't do it for a long period of time.  If you consider the first traits I mentioned- nose, speed, grit, ect- the dogs that have it do it all the time.  The dogs that don't do it, don't it because they don't have it. 

I think rolling over  is to lose of a term.  I believe it is a term that hog hunters have phrased- but it is not genetic.  If it was a gene, would a retriever that goes out again and again be a good roll over dog or would a duck/bird hunter call that hunt?

When I researched the gene, DNA, and other terms (which Im not trained in), I cannot put what we call roll over in one of those categories.  It is not something that is talked about when we talk about things we breed for.  We don't really talk about the term hustle either.

So, after all of this, I don't know that you can teach roll over , but I am not certain it is genetic.  I think you can promote roll over by not allowing dogs to stay with a caught hog.  You have to train them that the object is to find and bay, find and bay, find and bay.  Once you have taught this, I think you could say a dog is trained to roll over or you could say a dog is trained not to stay at a caught hog.

So there it is, that's what I think, now my head hurts so I am going to finish watching the football game and wish I did not have to work tomorrow!  Is it time to hog hunt yet??????????????????????????

 I think the most important thing is to pick up the hog after you tie or stab them. The dogs then have no hog to chew on and leave out after another. Has worked in the past for me. HUNT" UM UP !!!!

How would nose and speed be any different than rollin off? It is all on how their brain is wired. Speaking of brain you are making mine hurt.. lol

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the meaning of rolling over to me is that as son as the hog is caught the bay dog rolls out on another track which means that there were more hogs in the pack and the dog is on there track...

 I like gritty strike dogs so most of the time they will be caught a while before we get there and the dogs need a short break from that exertion ...but after a few minutes the dogs will roll out on the hunt...I am perfectly fine with that style of dog...kind of getting off subject...  ???

To me rolling over is what you teach rover to do for a treat. Sit, stay, play dead etc are things that can be trained

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It's been my experience that the true stock bred dogs have a lot greater tendancy to do it naturally.  I'm talking dogs bred with way more interest in baying and working stock than biting.  I've never raised one whose mind I couldn't change, but the catchier the dog, the harder it can be.  So in a sense, I do believe it is genetically inherited.

Bryant...probably the best answer right their...

The guy was asking for help on training, Not all this BLA BLA BLA. So do's anyone else have anything  helpful ?

"How would nose and speed be any different than rollin off? It is all on how their brain is wired. Speaking of brain you are making mine hurt"

This above statement says it all....

Its not how the brain is wired.  The brain changes and learns based on experiencs- TRAINING. - not genetics.  Exaclty why I asked the person to research and not believe everything they hear on here.

Nose, speed (bone structure- and short/long twitch muscles) and made from a dog's genetic make up not training. 

I can agree with Bryant that some stock bred lines take to this easier or more naturally than others.

boatrunner- you are correct, we should be ansering the man's question instead of the blah blah blah.

Where can I send my culls for training???

All the blah, blah, blah is full of useful information that most have lived and learned. ;)

I am surprised no one has used the word relay...

The group of people and dogs that we hunt together one year ago we only had one dog that would roll out.  That dog is no longer with us.  For a couple months we would catch one hog then have to drive to a new spot and turn dogs out. What we did was when they all catch and you get there. get all dogs off besides catchdogs.  Don't let dogs sit there and bark and bite at the hog while your trying to tie it up.  One person would gather all the baydogs up and walk them away from the caught hog telling them to get ahead and hunt. It took a couple months but at one point we had 5 different dogs that once they saw us they would roll out before we even told them to.  Occasionally they will help catch but we just get them off and tell them to get ahead and they will.  I don't mind my dogs helping catch but once my bulldog is there and I have ahold of the hog I want them to be off hunting that way the time we get the hog out of the woods they are on another.  

Relay, I've also heard rebay.

Well fellas, my gamey gyp rolled out on a hunt today, story up in a few almost lost a catch dog in the process. After today I believe for my dog to roll out there has to be multiple pigs in the area.

Tator dogs are natural rolling dogs....However, I have a young male, Roscoe, that is Tator Sr. great grandson/Freak's grandson....He needed a little encouragement at about 14 months with a shock collar. He now rolls.....I don't believe in shocking a dog off of a hog unless you are sure the dog knows he did a good job, but once the hog is caught, if he stays, barks, etc, I gave him a very low voltage shock and he was gone.....

Just saw this....Roscoe is Tator Sr.'s great grandson; Freaks grandson....He needed encouragement. If you remember, you were questioning me the first time I shocked him off of a hog at that big lake. That is when he rolled and bayed over the dike; Jasper went to him, and they caught......