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Title: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: rdjustham on February 04, 2014, 07:29:48 pm Just found out about this today. Laws take effect may 1st. I havent been able tog etm y hands on the ordinance yet, but this stack of crap is gonna bring a storm.
http://www.news-press.com/article/20130519/NEWS01/305190042/Hunters-cry-foul-over-proposed-Lee-County-laws-housing-canines Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: charles on February 04, 2014, 07:39:13 pm BOHICA, bend over, here it comes again. Just another raping of the avg hunter n american. Another bs law that will get the unfortunate bs law enforcer (probably not the person, but the law is what im refering to as bs) injured by those who wont conform to socialist/communist gov laws
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: hoghunter71409 on February 04, 2014, 07:39:16 pm Yea that is a bunch of BS. Go after animal owners that don't contain their animals. Neither Lee nor Collier County is not doing much about sterilization of wild hogs. These hogs are mass producing and causing more problems than dogs and cats. All this to hope people bring animals in at night...that is a bunch of #2.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Mpbarrs on February 04, 2014, 07:40:02 pm Are you kidding me with this !!!!!! That's unreal man . I remember when we thought they wouldn't be able to outlaw the fox pens and we see how that turned out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: bob on February 04, 2014, 08:04:20 pm That is crazy , that's a bad deal for dog owners in Florida, I hope it doesn't go threw
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: dodgegirl on February 04, 2014, 08:09:33 pm I was just about to post this! This is some serious bulls&!t. I'm over all these damn rules when my hunting dogs are treated better then most peoples "pets". My dogs get top notch food, they get plenty of running around time they get lots of loving. It's going to be a cold day in hell when acc comes onto my property and tells me I can't kennel my dogs
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: hogmantx1979 on February 04, 2014, 08:50:00 pm That's a accident waiting to happen there trying to pass that type of law.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: KevinN on February 05, 2014, 08:25:24 am Well....except for the sterilization crap....honestly..... I don't see a problem with kenneling dogs as opposed to tying them out. To me...it's just an all around better way to contain multiple dogs.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: WayOutWest on February 05, 2014, 08:34:46 am Kevin, I have owned a few that would be fine on a chain and fight a fence something crazy. They will tear teeth out wanting out. I just hate that some city dweller can decide the best way to confine a dog when it's the unconfined dog that is the dang problem. Besides most folks who chain a dog give them 3 times the area a kennel gives.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: MrsLouisianaHogDog on February 05, 2014, 09:02:05 am Well....except for the sterilization crap....honestly..... I don't see a problem with kenneling dogs as opposed to tying them out. To me...it's just an all around better way to contain multiple dogs. I have to politely disagree. While there is no problem with kenneling a dog, it's still a personal choice of the dog owner. We should be able to choose how we want to confine our dogs, if done so in a proper manner. They shouldn't be able to dictate how, so long as the dog is provided adequate shelter, clean water, and fed daily. I've got dogs here that can not be contained properly in a kennel, yet they thrive on a well kept chain spot. They see idiots tying dogs to trees with wires and ropes, or using frigging logging chains, and that's what gives these people their bright ideas of banning "tethering" all together. Let me also ad.....I've NEVER had a dog break off a chain and cause damage in many years, except ONE time when it was a hardware malfunction/freak accident which was totally my own fault. We HAVE had dogs in kennels over the years hurt themselves trying to escape, busting teeth out like someone else mentioned, and getting "pen aggressive" in close quarters. We now only keep a couple dogs in welded kennels that are older and calm. Everyone else is on nice big appropriately sized chain spots. I have an issue with the law trying to tell me how I MUST contain my dogs. If I am keeping them in a humane manner, and contained, they should have no say in the situation. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: NathanDoss on February 05, 2014, 09:04:20 am Man! Bunch of BS!!! These yuppies need to get a life!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: RL on February 05, 2014, 09:05:00 am Sterilization also would be mandatory for cats and dogs that aren’t registered with organizations such as the American Kennel Club, which only accepts purebred pups.
Really? Hmmm. This could be a business opportunity. Why not start "The American Crossbred Kennel Club" so that they would be technically registered? Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: muleskinner on February 05, 2014, 09:08:02 am It's just a stepping stone to what's really coming. Everytime they pass a law and get away with it another one is right behind it.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: NathanDoss on February 05, 2014, 09:27:59 am I'm a law abiding citizen, but crap like this I'd take a stand and whether it passed or didn't pass I'm going to keep doing what I see fit for my dogs.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:04:44 am I have to also disagree with kevin and agree with mrslouisiana. I don't own anything but bulldogs at this moment and bulldogs are much safer and happier on a "proper" chain setup.
Anybody who disagrees...answer this simple question for me>>> 10X10ft kennel = 100 sqft.>>>10ft.chain=314sqft. If you were kept outside, which would you rather live on? I also think it's up to the owner to decide which they want to use but nobody should be able to tell me how to house my dogs as long as they're properly cared for. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:12:01 am And to add to my last post....who really has a 10X10 ft kennel for every single dog anyway? The majority are definitely under 100 sqft of living space for every dog. Anybody I know who properly chain their dogs have 10 ft at minimum. Just wanted to show that my example of 10X10 is giving kennel dogs the benefit of doubt but it's usually not that big. Not knocking nobody who has kennel dogs, just giving another benefit IMO of chain dogs that wasn't brought up above. The other points made are spot on also!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: joshlvg on February 05, 2014, 10:17:47 am I can see where they are coming from how many dogs you see chained in yard on side of road with no shelter and tangled up on something due to not properly being chained I chain dogs to but they have shelter and no obstruction to tangle on. But if they come to seize my dogs they better call in for back up first lol
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:22:41 am And I suppose if you were trying to stick as many dogs you could in a certain location then yes I agree with you about kennels. I could fit a whole bunch of 4X6ft kennels in my yard but IMO that doesn't give them a comfortable, safe environment to grow up in. And If I'm spending my time,effort and money raising these dogs I want to get the highest potential of their abilities out of them. I understand we own different breeds on this forum but I'm only speaking of housing bulldogs (apbt) as that's all my experience as been in. Also, don't take me the wrong way through a keyboard. This is only a discussion/debate on a comment that was made that I see a completely different side on.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: WayOutWest on February 05, 2014, 10:23:33 am Everyone talks tuff about how they better come prepared when they come to get your dogs but believe me they will. And if you choose to fight them they will get whatever reinforcements they need. It's too damn late to fight after they have the law and are enforcing it. It needs to be fought before they pass it.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: KevinN on February 05, 2014, 10:28:35 am I use to keep dogs on chains as well. I just switched to pens and that's my preference.
I have 2 pens that are 8X8 (64sq feet) - 4 that are 8X16 (128sq feet) and one that is 16X32 (about 480sq feet?). Anyway..... I'm not arguing about anything and I don't care to....I'll just give my reasoning. I've had dogs that were on chains....inside a "dog yard".... 1. Get bred by strays 2. Die from exposure because of a tumbleweed getting tangled in the chain/post while I was out of town over nite (yes it actually happened) Since putting my dogs in pens I've had ZERO issues whatsoever. Sure....you have to figure out who can be kenneled together/next to each other and who can't. Who needs an escape proof kennel and who doesn't but once that is done.... It's cake! Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:29:11 am I hear ya about some people not chaining up properly. There's a dog right around the corner from me who lives on about a 5 ft chain. And that's not right but It's not my business to do anything about it. If AC has a problem with it, they can see it just like I do walking past. The keyword in my post about the chain setup is "properly", not everybody does it but if done right, there's no better way to house a bulldog IMO.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:37:10 am Not arguing my man, just difference of certain opinions and discussing it. Me personally, I have a fenced yard right now but if I didn't my only concern with strays and being bred would be a stud of mine sending a stray bitch down the road with possible puppies in her as I keep my bitches in heat in a above ground kennel during her cycle. I completely understand about stuff getting caught up in a chain, my issue is with straw/hay. But even with a wrap up with one of those the dogs can easily get in their house or in some shade. And I've never delt with tumbleweed so idk about that but my wrap ups easily work itself out. Not everybody has the same ideas or opinions and that's what makes the world so wonderful, just expressing a different but IMO very important side of the spectrum.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: KevinN on February 05, 2014, 10:37:14 am Treez....your probably talking about a certain "strain" ;) of bulldog I would imagine.
I've had APBT's and American Bulldogs and crosses of the two for years that I have kenneled and never had any issues concerning fence fighting/ aggression or breaking of teeth. As you say....just different kinds of dogs. Again...I don't have an issue with anyone using chains....I just think pens are better and I myself chose not to use chains. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: KevinN on February 05, 2014, 10:38:41 am No worries brother!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 10:44:20 am Yes sir, was only speaking for the bulldog side of it. We see eye to eye on the topic. If I ever get bay dogs or guard dogs then I'd rethink the best ideal situation for that. Just speaking on my dogs and the math that I always bring up when the discussion of kennel vs chain comes up with me :) Just a difference of opinions is it.
I also agree what was just said about doing something before it's too late. I know alot of times these ordinances get passed before most of the citizens even know it's being voted for. You know the media only wants to report it after it gets passed. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 11:03:18 am W.O.W, I just realized you brought the size aspect of chains further up on the 1st page, I read it but obviously not good enough lol. I said I didn't see it above so I brought it up further down, my apologies.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: joshlvg on February 05, 2014, 11:04:11 am oh im not going to hurt anyone there just a lot of them they are going to have to get lol. plus neighbors dogs, and guy next to him. Shoot they better just bring the pink shots and start giving them to them there, they wont have room to house all the dogs they will have to get nor will they have enough ticket books to write all the tickets so im not worried for awhile. they be full by the time they get to my house.lol
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Shotgun wg on February 05, 2014, 11:11:43 am I'm like others. My main problem is I don't like them telling me how I can contain my dogs as long as all needs are met. Most of mine are on 20' tieouts. My bulldog is in a 20x20 kennel. Luckily I live in AR and this don't effect me. If it passes tho it is only a matter of time before it passes in other places.
Shotgun Arkansas Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: rdjustham on February 05, 2014, 11:29:22 am Guys, the ranchers around here put up a stink and now there is an exception for working dogs. As long as the owner has a hunting license then you don't have to sterilize the animal. So now I am FORCED to buy a hunting license when its not necessary to otherwise do so. Its all a load of crap! Personally I think this would be a violation of the fourth amendment and id like to see them try to enforce it. The lawsuits should just about break the county.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: MrsLouisianaHogDog on February 05, 2014, 11:43:57 am I use to keep dogs on chains as well. I just switched to pens and that's my preference. I have 2 pens that are 8X8 (64sq feet) - 4 that are 8X16 (128sq feet) and one that is 16X32 (about 480sq feet?). Anyway..... I'm not arguing about anything and I don't care to....I'll just give my reasoning. I've had dogs that were on chains....inside a "dog yard".... 1. Get bred by strays 2. Die from exposure because of a tumbleweed getting tangled in the chain/post while I was out of town over nite (yes it actually happened) Since putting my dogs in pens I've had ZERO issues whatsoever. Sure....you have to figure out who can be kenneled together/next to each other and who can't. Who needs an escape proof kennel and who doesn't but once that is done.... It's cake! I totally hear ya. We all have valid points. I'm not against pens, but I am against them folks trying to make a law telling me I have NO choice in the matter. As far as my dogs getting bred by strays....that would be the last thing I'd have to worry about with any of my dogs (majority bulldogs) ;-p We do rake out spots at least three times a week to keep them free of leaves/build up around the poles. Been lucky there, our spots are real smooth and clean/clear. Never had one get stuck/caught up yet, but if not maintained, of course it is possible. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 05, 2014, 11:44:15 am I hear ya rd, but I'd go buy that license with a ;D on my face if I was you. Seriously,that sounds like a good deal considering the current situation. Congrats to you!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: MrsLouisianaHogDog on February 05, 2014, 11:46:25 am Sorry bout my last post, don't know why it made the whole thing as a quote :/
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: WayOutWest on February 05, 2014, 02:11:03 pm I hear ya RD about that license thing. It is just another thing to force on you. James Crenshaw, the Breeder of Ch Jeep had the SPCA come with the law and do a search of his place. LEO's found nothing to cite him for but he was forced to get a kennel license. That doesn't sound like a big deal but you sign papers giving them right come on your property any time they want. THAT bothers me, the LEO's need a reason to come but animal control needs no reason. At that point Crenshaw got rid of his dogs!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: jimco on February 05, 2014, 03:13:33 pm Everyone talks tuff about how they better come prepared when they come to get your dogs but believe me they will. And if you choose to fight them they will get whatever reinforcements they need. It's too damn late to fight after they have the law and are enforcing it. It needs to be fought before they pass it. I looked it up online. There are only 5 county commissioners for Lee County. If every one with hunting dogs, ranch dogs, or any breed of dog owners who are against this proposed ordinance would show up in force at a county commission meeting and voice your concerns and let it be known publicly how much you are against this, I would bet the proposal would fail. There are 5 commissioners, you only have to get 3 of them to back off. As WayOutWest mentioned, the time to fight it is NOW, not after it passes. At the county level, the commissioners can't take the heat of a packed, angry meeting room. Some commissioners will stick to there guns, some will cave to the pressure. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: rdjustham on February 05, 2014, 03:37:03 pm Yeah they tried sliding this through with out so much as a peep to the public, however a hunting rights advocate in Tallahassee saw it and got the ball rolling to have the exemption put into place. The ordinance is already in and will go into effect for one year starting may 1st.
As far as them coming prepared with the law, I don't know a single judge in this county that would sign a search warrant to allow them entry to see if your dogs were sterilized your animals or to measure your pens. I have a 6ft privacy fence around my yard and nothing is visible from the street so they would need that search warrant. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Shotgun wg on February 05, 2014, 05:51:36 pm The fact that it was a hunting rights activist that saw it and got the ball rolling for the exemption should be enough for every dog hunter in Florida to join their dog hunters association. Without them y'all would be looking at a new law that woulda been a pain.
If the state dog hunters association does not get a boost in numbers after this I say shame on y'all. Shotgun Arkansas Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: cajunl on February 06, 2014, 07:38:45 am Dog hunters association in Florida?????...lol lol. That is a very good joke!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Shotgun wg on February 06, 2014, 08:22:49 am But in calls to commissioners this week, Florida Dog Hunters and Sportsman’s Association lobbyist Lane Stephens urged them to consider loosening the measures for hunting dogs.
This is from the article. So why is it such a joke. They are the ones that helped get the exemption Shotgun Arkansas Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: jimco on February 06, 2014, 08:43:52 am Dog hunters association in Florida?????...lol lol. That is a very good joke! y'all better get united and help support one of them groups that fought for trying to get the exemption. It wont be to big of a joke when they end up passing something like this in your own back yards. Folks can talk all that tough chit you want, but when it becomes law they will enforce it. Case in point : Cock fighting in Louisiana. I heard it all, such as , It will be a cold day in hell before they tell me what I can do with my birds. Well, we all know how that turned out. Cock Fighting was banned by our state legislature who was being pressured by U.S. government. Hell, this dog ordinance is being proposed by y'alls County commissioners. There are only 5 of them. Read my previous post. They DON'T like a packed, angry meeting room. They will back down. BUT, if no one shows up to show opposition, guess where it's heading. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: pblenis on February 06, 2014, 09:08:58 am This proposed law is exactly what America has become. Legislating to the minority. By this I mean punishing everyone, even 'good' dog owners, because of the select few who don't take care of their animals.
It's hard to stop stuff like this because it's easy to sell to the average person. "We only want pets living inside and we don't want unwanted puppies", what average person isn't going to agree in concept; however, we know it's just another way to throw a big net over a small problem. Forget enforcing current animal abuse laws, let's just cast as wide a net as possible. We all know that @$$hats who don't take care of their pets, but those are the minority and a small minority at that. Look at the APBT/Am Staff/Bullie. Millions owned across the country. And everyone knows even game bred APBT are not human aggressive. But because of those .1% of owners who raise monsters, all bulldogs are dangerous. Thus the breed specific legislation running rampant. Hunter's better rally on this or your going to be hunting hogs with Irish Setters and German Sheperds. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Shotgun wg on February 06, 2014, 09:57:33 am People call these dog hunter association a joke and don't support them . Here's my question? Where were u when they submitted this law or any other law? Once a law is passed and general public is aware of it it's too late. It is far easier to stop it before it starts than to repeal it.
Here in AR folks have the same mentality. The ADHA is young and small. We are doing what we can to protect the rights of dog hunters in our state with or without ur support. The gun owners have the NHRA. The duck hunters have DU and Delta. The antis have PETA and HSUS. What does the dog hunter have? Here we ask $10 to become a member. That ain't much. But if we can get numbers that is what counts. If u have 2000 people in a room all hollering their point it's loud and u can't hear anyone. U take the same 2000 saying the same thing united it is loud and clear. Unless we stand together as a state then as a country we are destined to be pushed aside by the united do gooders and ANtis. If u think tradition will save u look at the way god is being pushed out of our country. There is no stronger tradition than that in the US. Shotgun Arkansas Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: b.b.b kennels on February 06, 2014, 10:02:25 am Damn Shotgun, we need a couple folks like you in office.
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: charles on February 06, 2014, 10:15:08 am Well said shotgun.
Some folks could care less for the rest of the populas, as long as they have/get what they want, screw the rest. Its a me, myself n screw the rest of yaw. This country is full of individuals with NO concept of unity, only singlarity. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: paul.m on February 06, 2014, 01:20:58 pm If they seized alot of dogs what would they do if yuppiez didnt want
to adopt it, I am assuming they will put it down like the others! As long as they are fed and watered daily then why bother , but I'm assuming they must of busted plenty of dog fighters around to make it bad for working dogs. Hope it doesn't pass for y'all in Florida , but if it does let me know I could use 1 more dog. ;)!!! Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Amokabs on February 06, 2014, 02:52:01 pm I've said it before,,, the further we get away from our rural past, the further down the crapper the country descends. I am so sick of these lactating liberals,(women and MEN) that are so far removed from toiling the field and gathering and hunting for their sustanence, i could scream. They are the worst of busybodies and will NEVER be satisfied with how people exist. They live for the next "crusade" and they think they are so superior thet all the world's ills will be cured if you just do what they tell u to do. Of course, their plans never work out ( see obamacare) as they plan, but the results dont matter, only that they "tried" and it makes them feel good. How will this law affect great pyreness type dogs that basicly live outside with their herd of goats, sheep or cattle to protect them from predators? Last, i suspect we should make them pass a law disallowing housepets from being crated while the owners are at work. How cruel for a dog not to be able to raom freely, destroying at will, being stuck in a 2'x2' box for 9-12 hrs a day. I repeat, these lactating liberals make me want to scream!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Treezbulldogz on February 06, 2014, 03:23:38 pm ^^^ Terrific post! Great point about the crate!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: rdjustham on February 06, 2014, 05:22:08 pm guys this law is on the books now. It is set to sunset next year however. I got the actual county ordinance and read it word for word. And to be honest, theres really not anything in there that effects hunter SOLELY because of the exemption.
Shotgun, to be honest I didn't know Florida even had a dog hunters association. Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: Shotgun wg on February 06, 2014, 06:35:49 pm Florida does. Louisiana has 2 I think. Texas has one. Arkansas has one. Alabama has one. I don't know about MS or GA.
Shotgun Arkansas Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: devildawg86 on February 09, 2014, 11:58:40 am When u can get God and prayer kicked out of school everything else is easy! The so called elect of God must all be dead i guess. Speak now or their will be no peace!
Title: Re: New laws in florida. Look out guys, coming to a county near you. Post by: MrsLouisianaHogDog on February 09, 2014, 12:14:45 pm MS has one. Mississsippi Hunting Dog Association.
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