EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I ain't trying to start arguments just wanting input. I know everyone has their own opinion so all are welcome but all in all what do y'all think is the best breed and bloodline for solid long range cold nosed hog dogs. A buddy called wanting a pair of pups of this caliber and I run hotter nose cur dogs.. All input is appreciated!!!

Bear and lion dog bred pups is where I would start. I would also narrow down to dogs that hunt drier climates.

Readily available and easier to find in general population ........Gotta say (Hound)

Ahhhhh I said it......... ;D

Or you can begin your quest as a noble and fearless hog dog patron ......and not settle for anything less than a Ybmc that has all the hound capabilities and does it sooooooo much more stylish .... 8)

I have had great success with Catahoula/ Plott crosses. 1/4-1/2 Plott and the Catahoula side was from cowdog stock and rough with good nose and speed.

Only long range dog Ive had was 3/4 plott 1/4 bmc. I've had some medium range dogs n prior packs. But most of the pure bred cat I've had was all short range dogs. JMO I ain't ever seen a long range catahoula and I've seen and hunted a lot of them. Long range to me is anything past 800 yards on no sign.

From what limited experience I have and, it seems to be a general consensus if you want nose put some ear in the dog. Lots of good nosed hounds and shorter eared dogs too , that being said a plott mix seems to do what your saying in what I've seen . Been around several nice dogs that were 1/4 plott 3/4 bmc . Just seems to me that that plott blood sure puts a nose and range on them. Just my opinion, there is defitenly lots more versed individuals on this forum.

Certain strain of mt curs have the best of both worlds already built in...

Ive got a buddy that has a damn good mt. curr...one of the better dogs ive hunted behind and goes wherever he has to to find one and put one at the end of a track. Hes a huge dog.

So... Out of everyone that is mixing in plotts, have y'all tried full plotts? Wondering what the mix has that the full plott wouldn't.. Just wonderin

Prob not much, most the time I always hear it's to tighten the open on track of a full plott

Theres some lines of silent plotts out there ....where they breed specifically to keep em shut mouthed.

But them quite Plotts make it hard to find them.....when they tree  ;D

I think most people use plotts to cross on curs because they're more readily available.

Might take some sure enough looking around, but if I were starting over and had nothing to work with I would cross the nicest straight (yellow of course) cur female to the nicest straight running hound (Trigg, July, Goodman, Etc) and go from there.

Every supposed straight line of cur dog I've ever hunted behind and been impressed by could be traced back to having some foxhound blood somewhere in the ped.   

Running hounds have a tighter mouth, run to catch (typically more grit), have a tendancy to grade wind and hunt by both wind and track instead of solely driving a track, hunt faster and you don't have treeing instincts to have to try and breed back out.  I also believe as a whole, running hounds haven't been quite as poluted over the years as many other breeds.  I could go on and on, but just my opinion mainly.

Come visit and I'll show you one

Aren't running hounds breed for just that speed and less nose?

The old dog men who ran yotes and deer bred running hounds that had both. Great July, Trigg and Running Walkers aren't fast on track just because they have the legs to be. Never saw a tree bred hound push tracks like a running hound should.

From my experience get a pair of plotts or blue tics not the thick ones but the leaner ones they will start tracks further back and good ones won't stop till they bay or tree what they started jmo

These curs I got from bigo and skoalbandit are pretty dang cold nosed and loooong range, almost to much range for this part of the country. You'll find what your looking for in a small pocket of pure bred dogs no matter the breed, just gotta do the research and talk with lots if folks.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

There's that word again...haha.  Ben, you do know that although they've been bred true for many years not everything in those dogs ped is yellow.

I brought up the topic for discussion probably several years back already, but when a dog's been knowingly crossed; at what point and how many generations down the road do you get to call them pure bred dogs and feel good about it?

It's my personal opinion, that there really is no such thing as "pure bred" dogs.  Makes no difference to me really as I look at a line based on how they perform and aside from being structurally sound, if they look good doing it, well that's just a bonus anyhow.  Phenotype is the easiest characteristic to breed for.

Long range cold nosed dogs

the days of big ranches are about over for most places so there really isn't a real big market for the cold nosed long range dogs...at some point in time it will be super catchy dogs that will catch right away or give it up and come back because of the smaller ranches and stricter laws as we progress into the future...

years ago I thought hard about breeding crohgan coyote hound with my mt cur dogs for size a little more speed and possibly more grit...they were supposed to run to catch and kill...some were known to catch and kill by 10 months of age...probably not real cold nosed but probably about right for what I like...

Bryant i agree 110% with your post.... i say pretty much the same thing to several people weekly. I get sick and tired of saying it. Lol if a yeller "cur" is cold nosed and will run a hog forever you can bet somewhere back in the day there was some sort of hound bred into it. How many generations of line breeding does it take to make it a cur? Lol most truly good "curs" that i have seen have hound ears and cat footed. Supposedly the bmc was two strains originally mastiff/Ridgeback OR mastiff/greyhound. Some people call Catahoulas curs... look up the composition of those dogs. Basically a cur is a mutt!!!! BLACK YELLOW OR RED. I will get off my soap box and let the flogging commence . :)

Who you talkin to ;)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/u6abu7u5.jpg)

I agree with you Travis, currs are absolutely mutts, no doubt about that. Did some digging the other day, i knew that hound and pointer had been bred into this stock in the past before I owned any. Smokes great gpa was a 1/2 plott 1/2 curr and bonnies great grandma supposedly was 1/2 pointer 1/2 curr. Alot of these have white toes which im guessing is from the pointer but this is the longest eared pup out of over 20 related dogs. I believe this is what folks refer to as a "throwback" in a line of dogs.

While they are all yella dogs they are in no way "purebred"

;) there ya have it!!! Lol mods need to take all this off before Myles sees it though or he might go to culling. :)

Hahahahahaha

I NEED MORE BULLETS ! ! ! !

SOMEONE.......ANYONE ! ! !


MORE BULLETS!     AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ! ! !
...

Ok.. this is Myles's wife.
I just found him lying in a dark corner, sucking his thumb in a puddle of his own urine.
All he would say to me was........Nah...pure....Nah....pure.    And something about cheetos?

What did yall do to him?  It took three glasses of STRAIT Yellow coolaide before he would sit up and stop defacating on himself.

HAHAHAHAHAHA..............that wasn't coolaide  :o :o

Now that's funny stuff

Come visit and I'll show you one
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I'm not that worried about seeing one.

I would say a good bred hound with get gone and Cold nose too...


Sonny

I don't believe the cold nosed dogs are the normal thing anymore in either curs or hounds.  Hounds may tend to have a alittle higher percentage of producing colder dogs, but its a trait that needs to be bred for specifically.  If you are just buying a pup or throwing two dogs together and hoping for a cold nosed dog, then I personally think the odds are against you.  And then you have to ask yourself, "How cold are we talking about"?  Are you wanting a dog that will take a track a couple hours old, or one that has cobwebs in it?  There is cur dogs and hounds out there that can do it with style, BUT they are bred specifically for that trait, along with a few other traits.

Yeah just how cold are you talking about?  Years ago I heard of a guy in FL named Jeff.  Jeff has a Plott named Jerry that could take a 20-24 hour old track.  I didnt beleive so I started researching and googling.  Say some post where guys put dogs on a track and the next day, Jerry would walk the same track and jump the hog.  Now that is cold boys!!  I've since made freinds with Jeff and had one of two of the Jerry pups.  I know Jeff has bred dogs with Jerry many times and he still has not found one like Jerry. 

That tells me right there that some dogs are bor with it, but dont mean they pass it down.  You could breed 100 good cold nosed dogs and never come up with one 24 hours cold.  Ive left Jeffs last name out becuase I didnt ask him if I could write about Jerry.

Jon are you talking about the Jerry Lee dog? I have only ever read about Jerry Lee, he's a plott dog, 100% Hammer breeding. Anyways 24 hours was no issue for the dog, he could make it happen.  There's to many stories and to many big hogs from track hunting to deny his nose , and I wouldn't question it anyways because I know some of the dog men who say it's true and that's enough for me.  Dogs like him are more rare then your once in a lifetime dogs!

it has been said on here before, that a great dog deviates so far from average and even above average that he can not reproduce himself/herself...

in my opinion it is like one great dog that pops up in a long line of culls...he more than likely will reproduce more culls than anything else...

and in my mind it is the same with a long line of good to great dogs when a dog that stands alone head and shoulders above the average good/great dogs...the genes matched up like the winning lottery numbers on that dog we know is in a league of it's own...just won't reproduce very well because it deviates too much from normal...

Rubin, they way I think about it is... Most good dogs will only produce to the average of the line. You just have to make sure the average of the line is better than most.

Yes Ben.  I am talking about Jerry Lee.  I was invited to hunt with Jeff and Jerry Lee this upcoming weekend, but I have to be in Shreveport.  Id really like to see Jerry Lee.  You probably saw the Nola Plott I had off of him and a Mike Cauley female.  She is the only dog out of that liter that made it.  Jeff now owns her as well.

Rueben- you may very well be right on the breeding.  I don't know enough factual or proven knowledge to support or argue your comment.  Jeff would probably say that he is like a winning lottery ticket.  Once in a lifetime dog.

So, going back to the topic- you could breed just about anything to a cold nosed dog, it doesn't gauarantee that one or any of the pups will be cold nosed.

Underdog...I agree with your comment as well...we can't let up on breeding the best that is available...

Hoghunter71409...I can't really prove what I believe when it comes to breeding a dog that is in a league of it's own...just theory that makes since to me...

Ruben- its all good.  A lot of the plot guys I am close to breed tight and best to best.  A plot man I know from spain is very much the opposite.  He said they breed great to good or average.  His thoughts were a lot like yours.  It sometimes goes against what the majority say and makes it hard for guys like to figure out.

That's why I leave the breeding to my buddies and I try to make dogs out of their pups.

I believe in breeding best to the best within a family of dogs and even critique the small details...and look at traits like early starters, ability to track, how old was the pup when he made the complete race...on and on and on...I believe that we must breed the best to the best and we don't have room for error, especially when the line has already been established...

if I were to get lucky and breed a once in a lifetime dog at the very beginning of my breeding program (if I had a breeding program, just trying to breed a few good dogs without spending too much money this time around), I wouldn't waste my time on breeding him if he were a scatter bred dog...but I would put more emphasis on breeding his son or grandson, tightening the gene pool some before concentrating on one dog as the main breeder...but if that great dog was already bred right and fairly tight I would surround the breeding program around that dog...just hoping to produce dogs with the potential to regularly produce dogs better than above average hunting dogs...that's about the way I see it...I have already beat that logic to death...  ;D

Thanks for the input keep it up!! And what y'all think about a 1/2 mountain Curr 1/2 English or walker? And where could he find a line to get pups bred for some depth? I got mt currs and there just right.. I don't have 5,000 acres to run them long range dogs but he just got a deal with a lot of land and wants to get some long range dogs on track!!