EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I don't post much and I normally stay quiet on here. With opinions and hunting styles varing so much in regards to hog doggin', I seem to always post the wrong response, or at least it seems to be taken the wrong way, so I just keep my mouth shut as much as possible and just try to read and learn from everyone else.  But today, I'm a little bummed out and wanted to ask everyone's opinion on something.

I've been using pits for my catchdogs for a while now and with great results.  And I always seek out family friendly dogs, dogs that show no aggression to other dogs or even strangers.  We tell everyone our pits are the biggest wussies in the yard.  Well, I won't go into details on the internet, but suffice it to say, the male crossed the line this week and I can't and won't tolerate what happened.
So as I try to move forward, I want to explore other options for my catchdogs.  The dog obviously has to catch and hold, but this 'ticking time bomb' gene that seems inherit to the pit breed can't be part of the equation.
Are any of you having continued success with another breed, full or cross, as catchdogs without the dog/people aggression?
Thanks,

American bulldogs...

Dogo or AB.
My buddy breeds some bull mastiff into his pits.. He says they are gentle giants


Sonny

There is no "ticking time bombs" in the breed. Poor breeding practices that result in unstable dogs? Yes. Plenty of that unfortunately. 

Am Bulls, and EBT's are two other breeds we use with success.

I am with mrs la but that in mind there are things you just don't do with pits or any of that bulldog breed. These are thing you learn most problems are our fault as handlers. Ab is a great alternative to pits I have curs and cats that catch they are out there just keep in mind some times it take two or three of them to equal a good pit jmo

Mixing bull mastiff with APBT is not a good idea. Heavy guarding instinct along with high prey drive doesn't always end well.

As far as non pit catch dogs I know folks that use straight catch BMC and catahoulas. An American bulldog tends to have a lil less of the flip out gene. A real good pit is hard to beat but finding a real good one that can make it 10 years without issue isn't. To me a bulldog should be treated like a loaded weapon. This doesn't mean they are bad but if proper precaution isn't taken accidents happen.


Shotgun
Arkansas

I love & trust my pits as long as I can see them.  If they aren't within my eyesight they are confined. Prevention is the best measure.

PATTERDALE!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEMEWf-oYug&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Raised them both from an early age.  He's never started a fight. She was the most playful dog you've ever seen and I'm convinced she didn't have the ticking time bomb in her.  And I know it's about breeding and upbringing.  I did not breed either of them, but I assure you, neither were taught to ruff house or fight dogs or people.  They stay in their own kennels, seperate and apart, but had free time everyday and played like a couple of 3 month old pups.  NO aggression at all.  This happened in the truck on the way home from a hunt.  My mistake here, I know, I should have a separate box for each and from now on I will.  But it's too late for her unfortunately.
I know not all pits have what I referred to as the 'ticking time bomb' gene, I know she didn't, but I can't and won't take the risk again. 
I will look into the ABs. 
Like they say, 'hindsight is 20-20.'  Can't help but blame myself for not seeing this coming, even though they've been riding like that for almost 3 years now.

Had very good luck in the 90's with small framed Bull Mastiffs as finder/holders. A little slow but solid dogs on a big boar. I liked them a lot more than the Dogos I have hunted. The key is small a frame.

Bad situation. 

I like a pit cross.  Not sure if your even willing to look at a pit at the moment, but I have a lab/pit cross dog that wouldn't harm a fly unless it smelled like a pig.   :)

I also have a Catahoula pit cross, and he is very gentle as well.  He is a young male, so he has a bit of the new kid syndrome right now, but the trash breaker has taken most of it out of him. 

I also have a pure Catahoula that I use as a catch dog.  He does a great job, locks on and will not let go, but he doesn't have the power that the pit crosses have on big boars.  Every bit as gritty, just not the stopping power. 

Out of all of them, the pit lab cross is the most gentle dog I have at the moment.  She loves attention, loves my kids, LOVES to play in water, but if there is a dog fight, (which we have a few after catching a pig), she is never involved.  She minds her own business, keeps to herself, and I have seen other peoples dogs come up and growl at her, and she just ignores them.  She's a one of a kind!

I'm gathering from your post that she got into a fight with another dog in the dog box?

I know what's done is done, and you did what you needed to do with her......but this is something I emphasize OVER and over until I'm blue in the face. A bulldog (APBT) has it in their genetics to be dog aggressive. They can go years without incident, but something can trigger a dog fight when you least expect it, and they will try to finish it. That's not called "a ticking time bomb", that's called acting out on it's genetics, and what they were selectively bred for for hundreds of years. When one owns an APBT no matter how much of a poodle you think it is, there's all the precautions that need to be taken. Secure confinement, and when out hunting, do NOT put them in a dog box with other dogs, and if you do.....just know that the risk is there that a dog fight can erupt. Hate to say it here but I must be blunt. It's not the dog's fault. APBT = a chance of dog aggression at some point. They must have an extra level of precautionary handling.

If we were talking about man-biting, that'd be a whole nother issue. A dirt nap would be in order.

That being said, I'm sorry for what may have happened to the dog she was confined with. I hope said dog is okay.

I think I already kicked myself in the gut, but go ahead, you can take your shot too.

Not doing that by any means. That's not the kind of person I am. I'm just stating information that hopefully others who may not know any better can learn from. It's always a learning experience, and people can and do learn from others' mistakes. We all make them time to time.

Be careful with any bulldog breed am bull or otherwise. Don't put them in the box with another dog. I've got a am bull and ran into an unexpected incident recently. Any dog can have a bad day or whatever you want to refer to it as biggest difference is when a bull bred dog has a bad day it usually ends worse than others.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Horrible situation. Don't beat yourself up over it. Lesson learned.
I have seen more crosses work out better then full pits, but I am huge fan of any well-mannered/well-trained pit bull. But with any working dog breed you have to stay aware and alert. Good Luck with the future and the next breed you choose. Wouldn't completely banish ALL pits/pit crosses from your pack, still a few great ones left.

Bad deal. U never know one of them coulda been sore from the hunt and checked the other then it escalated. It's just a bad deal.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Agree whole heartedly with this. I would add it does matter what family you get your ab from. If you want to lessen the chance of people aggression stay away from JDJ blood. They were specifically bred to have people aggression. With the other standard types it is possible for dog dominance to rear up so try and run males with females and make sure the females are not in heat. You can still have dog aggression issues with ebts and they are not always interested in hogs. I also agree with what the one person said of pit bullmastiffs. Everyone I ever saw was meaner than crap. And dog aggressive to boot.

So in sum what am I suggesting?

One male ab and a female ab or another breed your happy with that is the same disposition (no people aggression or dog aggression). Two abs is enough to get the job done on any hog, rank or whatever as far as I have ever seen. Make sure your gyp isn't in heat when they are together unless you are planning it, or spay /neuter them.

If you go the all cur route beware that that real a nasty hog will eventually back them off. I have heard that from too many people to count who know dogs.

Lastly give yourself a break. ;)

12 ga. 1 oz Slugs!

Get you a pair of jag terriors and start them out on catching coons and cats at a young age and they will be straight catch just like a Pit but a lot smaller and them breed one of them to a pitt or ruff dog to get them a little size but you will probably want to start out with about 5 some of them probably won't make it to breeding age lol

Thanks for the help and advice, looks like I'm leaning towards an AB? 
Both of these, the male and the female, were fixed and had been for years. 

I should have known better, I am to blame, should have kept them apart in the truck, for sure, the buck stops with me and I told my kids this earlier.  Hard lesson learned and one that could have been easily avoided.  Been a rough day here, so my apologies on the earlier comment to the lady from Louisiana if my reply came across in the wrong way.  My intent by the comment was, there isn't anyone on this board that can kick me any harder that I already have and I certainly deserve it. 

You know, in this sport, we prepare ourselves for when we loose a dog to a hog and we all try to minimize the risk as much as we can, but sometimes it stillhappens and we deal it with it.  I was not prepared for it to happen in my truck by one of my dogs.

Kinda like that decorated Navy SEAL that came home from all of that combat intact, with all of his limbs.  He takes another veteran out to the range to help him and the veteran turns on him and kills him.  That ain't right, but in hindsight,  we can all say to ourselves over a beer, "what was he thinking, giving a loaded gun to a vetaran with severe PTSD?"

I know the sun will come up tomorrow, Lord willing, and I will eventually stop kicking myself, but I'm not giving up on running hogs with my Kemmers and I will continue to use a CD, so I have to begin the search for a replacement, not only for her, but for him as well. 

Hey, if we wanted an easy sport, guess we could take up golf?  Yeah, that ain't happenin'

AB and make sure it's a good one from proven stock.  Options are : Scott, Underdog(Bryant), Britt Garcia, Tico at Jam Up.  I am done with breeding for awhile or I would recommend myself lol.   

I'll be calling Scott this afternoon, thanks. 

 ;)

PM sent. :)

Yep Dee, get with Scott. I'll vouch for him and his dogs and y'all are close enough you can go visit and see for your self.

Yes, all folks with good bulldogs.  ;D

here is mine I got fromSscott

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/cgasch621/IMAG0588.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/cgasch621/media/IMAG0588.jpg.html)


(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/cgasch621/IMAG0591.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/cgasch621/media/IMAG0591.jpg.html)

Glad you got you one Mr G

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Don't forget Mr. Juan

 ;D  Thanks josh.  I like to stay under the radar myself. lol   Really try to get the dogs with good folks like yourself and the other hunters I work with over the years.  Really Britt Garcia and Americanlegendz can be used interchangeably now with the hog catching line we are using.  I only work with Britt now when it comes to the hog catching hines line we have been working on for the last several years.  I recommend you check with the other dudes mention above.  All good lines and working there dogs to the fullest.  If I can help anyone out I'm always willilng to try my hardest to do my part.   

have a look at aussie pig dog sites....heaps of non-pit options....boxer crosses, english bull terriers, staghound crosses, wolfhound cross with EBT would be my pick of them

You never know about any type of bulldogs. That's pretty much all I have ever ran. Just because its a "good nature d" dog does not mean it won't cross any line. Dogs are animals just like any other animal. They have mouths instead of hands and they can't talk to us either. I have had american bulldogs, pits, old english bulldogs, and several different mixes. For one, any bulldog breed is bred to fight, period. When you research them, they'll say bred to hunt bear, bull baiting, dog fighting etc. Like it was earlier stated, bulldogs have a higher prey drive because of this. That's also why we use them as "catch dogs". I will say I've seen some really good catch dogs that were ridgeback and cur mixed. but far and few in between. I've been bit by my own dogs 3 times and my wife got bit once.  I got bit because they were tired, another time because one didn't want me to pull him off a hog, and another time I was sewing one up. My wife got bit because she tried to separate a bulldog that was mounting a gyp. Dumb move. If you read all these cases of mine, you can understand why I had this happen a few times, hell I'd bite someone too. Pits in my experience are worse, but that's just my experience. I have a american bulldog/old english bulldog that hasn't bit me yet. He's pretty nice.

The only thing I trust more than a bulldog when I'm going to put my hands on a hog is lead

I didn't care how crazy the Pitts would get I just put a muzzle and led through the wood are he might snap me I have been hog hunting longer than than most but you can control these animals they must be chained and with heavy collar never mix with other dogs I never wanted one that wasn't crazy as a Bessy bug when and it will happen he will turn on you you need to let him no who the boss is and I stress the last words. I have been training hog dogs for thirty plus years .

Got to look they are out there just got to look.  I like the ridgeback and the crosses.  Easy handling and I know a lot think they are dumb and maybe im lucky but they are smart.  I require a smart cd and will cull a dumb one just as fast as one that dont catch maybe faster. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

If any of my bulldogs ever bit me simply because I was stopping him from mounting a female, that dog would be in the dirt.

Yeah cattracker that's the way I do it, only problem is I have 8 of them and only 1 lead. AND YES it is a dumb move for getting in between dogs while there doing their business like you're human birth control. Its kind of like pulling a dogs tale. If i went around pulling my bulldogs tale all day and then he bit me, I wouldn't feel right putting him in the dirt for it

sorry for your loos and good luck finding a replacement!!

I use a Staghound duo for my catching. Grey one is stag and the other is his son 1/4pit 1/4dane 1/2stag

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w144/chads7376/20140322_184241_zpsfce327c6.jpg)

Here is an old yeller catch dog!
He gets the job done!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/sa7arase.jpg)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk