EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I went by this man buddy,s house. He has raised, trained and bred game dogs since the early 1960's. We had quite a talk and he pulled out a box stuffed with pedigrees, books, flyers on all the early bred game dogs. I am going to have to scan and see of I can post some of the more legible papers. Right now I just took a picture of this pedigree.  3 generation pedigree of all Neblett dogs. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/3egysyge.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/atemyme7.jpg)


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Try again on the first 2 generations. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/03/ajuse4ag.jpg)


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How many have this dog in there pedegrees?

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Oooo weee, that's a heavy bred Bucky McCoy dog right there.

Back when UKC was still worth it's salt.

did you get some pictures?

That's some cool gamedog history.

Reuban, I got a whole box full of pedigrees, books on the matches they used to have, pictures. It will take quite a while to sort thru it all. Some of the print in these older magazines is so small, I don't know if it will scan well or not. I will try to put something up every day.
  On a side note, he confirmed what Richard Stratton said in his first book in that they put down any dogs that showed aggression towards people. He also said the blue pits of today are not pure pits.
  Most of the dogs he had were a light yellow or fawn color but he did have a few brindles. He has been out of the dog business for quite a while but he has a weath of history stored up in this box he let me borrow.
  Another topic we touched on were the red nose pits. He told me they were so watered down that it did not even really matter anymore. He also said just because a dog is red means nothing. If they did not have the red nose with the red color they were not what the original red nose pits were.

Cajun, I got a buddy up in OK. Rodger Scott could tell you all about those Neblett dogs. He still loves em. Got a friend up in Philly that has some too. Ol Jimmy will enjoy seeing that Maloney ped. That would be some fun stuff to go thru. Keep it close man!

Hope these come out.

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It's really sad what's happened to the dogs. The wrong people got involved with them and made things bad for the good dog men.

Man! I wish I was around in those days! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for sharing! They even had "ladies night" at the fights back then.  :laugh:

Wow that's some good stuff ya got there !!

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Wow Mike!! That's some nice lititure!! Post up more as you go through it!

Pretty good read on John Colby who believed in breeding best to the best. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/y5y8ude8.jpg)

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Notice the pedegree bottom right.

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MAN you making my eyes water looking at all that stuff................Its like old times hit me right in the face .  Them were the days buddy !  Lone gone its a damn shame !

My favorite catch dogs have always been out of South Dallas X Craigslist and I wouldn't know a Chinaman dog from General Tso's chicken. But I'm enjoying looking thru the collection here. I can imagine all of the years of trial and effort that went into the animals represented.

I would say that if anyone reading these posts knows of some old timer who was a dog man or a hunter or a cowboy or whatever . . . you should go talk to him. You might learn something. You'll almost definitely hear some great stories. If he's old enough he's probably been sitting around for years wishing somebody would care enough to listen . . . and someday you may be in the same boat! And . . I can only imagine the old pictures and pedigrees and collections of long dead dog men that have been thrown away by surviving wives and children who never shared his interests and can't wait to get rid of it. There aren't any hog dog museums and it's up to us to preserve anything or it will just disappear.

Barlowe, that's good advice. But I have found that many in this generation coming up will not listen to a darn thing an older guy has to say. I have tried to mentor many a young guy after they come asking questions and then watch them do the exact opposite. I have quite a collection of old Bulldog memorabilia and it will most likely end up on e-bay some day. I've got a copy of the ring that Carver wore and I've got a ring that was made in the likeness of Gr. Ch. Art. Both in gold and someday they may pay for my funeral. 

WayOutWest ,  same thing here you cannot tell no body nothing these days they tend to know it all.  You get them a little bit educated and the next thing you know its kiss my ass I know it all .  They go out they fall on their faces and then next thing you know they are wanting back in .  I use to try and help everybody I could are that would listen get stabbed in the back a couple hundred times you learn with time but with these days and times I have come to the conclusion I don't really give a number 2 no more if you want to listen fine if you don't fine take it somewere else .

Y'all got that right... most of them know it all in a year or two and start teaching you things. ;D

May not always be the case, but as what most of you would definitely call a youngster I've found that sometimes just as hard as it is for y'all to find someone that'll listen, it's just as hard to find someone that'll talk because of that bad taste thats been left by others before.

Way Out West, There is a good chance your friend & this guy might know each other. Buddy used a lot of Neblett dogs to start his line. BuddyLee, This guy is also disgusted with the downward trend of game dogs & the direction they have taken. It is funny how in today's society how everybody looks down on game dogs but the old breeders were not looking at fighting dogs as a cruel sport. The breed has been bred for so long to be game, that is what all the old timers were trying to maintain. Extremely game dogs that would not quit.
  Now except for a few dedecated breeders scattered thru out the country the game dog might become a thing of the past.

what are they talking about like in " casper turns on dog" and red scratches hard. i was just reading some of the matches and didnt know what some of the stuff they was saying meant

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Bo, Maybe somebody will chime in & answer. I dont really know either & I am quoting Mr. Buddy on most of this. I just respect anybody who has put a lifetime of breeding dogs of their chosen breed.
  I do have a very small book that has the rules, but it is so small, I doubt if it would copy good.

I had the last living daughter of Butch House's Gr Ch Joker...........Her name was Crystal.. I took her and berd her to Gary Samples Mushson .......In that liter there were three dogs my ole Bruiser dog , Rusty and a little gyp.  My ole Bruiser dog went on to produce some great dogs .  When Bruiser was bred to my Gr Ch Hannah gyp it produced some great ones Hall Ch Sugar and more then Sugar went on to produce some great ones herself .... Black Rivers Dempsey was SDJ dog for the year come from these dogs .  I had Don Maloneys Ch Bert on my yard right after his big win and me and Bobby Hall bred Bert to his Miss Boobs bitch along with other gyps of my yard got pics of all of it .......Bert being stuck to Miss Boobs .....Briuser being bred to Gr Ch Hannah......Also a pic of Gary Samples holding Mushson and me holding the last living daughter of Gr Ch Joker my Crystal bitch while they were hung......Later on I ended up with Nigger Toby from Jerry Clemmons we worked at the same Prison Unit together.  I bred Nigger Toby to my Hannah bitch in that liter there were five dogs three males two females ........My Breuax dog 4x ......Gr Ch Katrina 5x winner ....Cain 3x ....Jug ....3x and Tiny a little gyp 2x ......17 wins in one liter of five dogs.  I later met JD Elliott and dusted his pants for him with the Breaux dog in under 9 mins............JD and me become good good friends he would not leave me alone after that wanting the Breuax dog ......He called me every day for two months straight wanting to buy the Breuax dog ask me how many I had like that I said I got a whole yard full of em .  Lmao ........Finally I talked to Jerry and ask about buying Nigger Toby .  He said Jim I want me a big ass motorcycle to ride back and forth to work .............Well guess what JD had a brand new Suzuki 1100 a bad bad machine back then it had 600 miles on it ......This set me to thinking hey JD wants that Brueax dog bad bad bad which he was a one in ten million dog but I could get my hands on Nigger Toby the daddy of him plus I had the momma I could then have the whole nine yards my cake and eat it too.......So sure as the sun comes up JD called the next morning I said JD you want that Breuax dog I will trade him dead even for that Brand New Motorcycle you got there hahahahahahahahaha He didn't say nothing for a min then he said you done lost your mind man I said well that's what I want if you are interested in owning this great dog then you will have to give it up  LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!  JD said no way man !  LMAO well the next morning the phone rang it was JD he said you son of a monkeys uncle come get this got damn thing before I change my mine haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I left burning rubber to his house got there handed him the lead rope aned Breuax loaded up the Motorcycle got the clean title   went home unloaded it cracked it up went straight to Jerrys house and he was laughing his ass off man he said no way man JD traded you that I said yeah ahahhahahhahhha .  Jerry was the one that set the deal up between me and JD and ole JD said who is this kid Jerry said well I can tell you one thing you better be on your P's and Q's because this boy and his dogs will hand you your ass in a sling and old JD went to laughing Jerry said well now look how it has turned out ahhahahahahahahahahahahaha.  So I handed Jerry the title and I loaded up Nigger Toby and the rest is history !!!!!!!!!

One side note ..................When I got to JD's house that day of the deal between me and him .  I got out shook his hand and ole JD was a charter he looked at my dog and said let me ask you three questions ...........  You want me to take it easy on ya , you want me to hurt ya are you want me to send you and him home in a plastic bag......... Now boy that pissed me off and I looked him straight in the eye and I said ........."I want you to send us home in a plastic bag if you can "  He looked at me with a number 2 eatin grin and it was on brother .  9 mins later JD was pickin his dog up .  After JD got him he told me later on that the Brueax dog was just as good of a dog as Eli Jr , Bullyson are Brendy and said he might just even be better ...Breuax 4x nothing over 20 mins and nothing ever scratched back to him !

Forgot to mention ........Brueax was open to the world as a 4x with no takers.

A turn is when the dog turns away from the fight. That is the dog that must scratch first once they get out of hold and handled. Scratch means crossing the pit and resuming the fight. I want to assure you I have had nothing to do with this sport for many years and don't intend on breaking any of these laws. Just sayin in case some leo thinks otherwise.

Same here....I have not owned a bulldog in many many years don't want one and have nothing to do with any of it.  All this was many many years ago and pure history.

I had my doubts about putting this on the internet too but there is so much history here & also, this was legal back in the day.

Man am talking 30/35 yrs ago....The articles I got up there are 35 to nearly 60 yes ago some longer.  Ancient History.

A "Turn" is when a dog turns away from its opponent during the match.  "Scratch" is when a the dog crosses the line in the pit in efforts to engage their opponent.  Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure failing to "scratch" will result in a loss of the match.   When the article said "red scratched hard" it just meant he crossed with intensity and not just nonchalant.  He really wanted the other dog, in other words.   

Don't quote me on any of this but I spent a lot of time around Johnnie Bettis when my wife was competing in the weight pulling.   Johnnie is well known for his game bred dogs around here and I'm just repeating what I thought I understood them guys to be talking about.

cajun im glad you put it on the internet i have enjoyed reading it, i wouldnt personally like to fight bulldogs either but have always been fasinated with the stamina they have.

x2...and the courage to get the job done at all costs...I have seen it with my eyes...

Some great reading. I always enjoy the stories of old. I could listen or read all day long.

Always say I was born in the wrong era.

Well I may not be able to speak for my whole generation but I can tell you when ever any ya'll ole timers need a ear to chew on an tell stories of the good ole days that have past I'm always ready and willing to listen

What amazes me is how much you forget when you are not around the bulldogs.  My memory gets jarred sometimes and I will say damn I done forgot all about this are that.  The men in the 30's 40's 50's 60's and even 70's were the great bulldog pioneers.  I was lucky enuff to meet a lot of them and become good friends with even more .  You talk about storys I use to sit around and listen to them for hours and hours .  There was none of this Peds on line and back then nobody told you jack about how this dog are that dog was bred.  You lived the bulldogs back then and nobody would tell you chit .  If you were lucky enuff to aquire a bulldog from one of these men you didn't dare to ask them who is this off of what is his pedigree they would slap you up side the head.  They would tell you if they wanted to and if they didn't it didn't make no difference because if you were smart you would take that dog and cherish it and build your on dogs off of it .  Men were men back then man was not any of this gang banging BS talking crap you would end up in a alligator hole never to be seen again if you got on the bad side of some of these folks .  Am just glad I got to meet who I met and become life long friends with a lot of them.  Most are gone now and all we have is the history they left us .  Man you talk about good times they knew how to have them .  I can remember leaving work at 3 pm on a Fri after noon traveling 200/300  miles  and not getting back home till 5 am Monday morning getting ready to be at work at 7 am and it was nothing but bulldogs bulldogs bulldogs from the time you left till the time you clocked in at work .  Unreal when I sit back and think about it now .

I have a few old buddies I get to visit with at times and the stories get to rollin but by and large a lot of those guys are gone. I did get a call from ol Girley Crum last year lookin for a damn Boston Terrier. Times have changed man! A real good friend with the best eye for a dog I ever saw passed 1 1/2 yrs ago. He was the breeder of Indian Moon and Tonka Bear. When he died I kinda pulled back from all the shows and pulls up here.

Yeah Jimmy you were in the golden age of bulldogs, and actually had your hands on some of the all time greats. I still see alot of your dogs in many pedigrees today, and like you said you have been out for over 30 years, that should tell you something right there, how good those bulldogs were! I also know you were good friends with Bobby Hall, I would love to hear both of your guys stories, man I bet you guys have some great ones.

Wayoutwest that is awesome you knew Girly Crum, my dogs have a ton of his blood in them and growing up reading the Stratton books when I was young I always loved his Creamator bitch.

Girley made the mistake of naming a son after himself and this son went on a meth fueled binge and killed a whole family. Girley has kept a very low profile since. When I see those old peds all kinds of memories come back. Most folks at this point don't realize that Tudor's Dibo was double hocked and a whole buttload of dogs are that way still because of that.

Yeah I remember reading that he threw a lot of double jointed dogs. I never knew if that was true or not, was that due to the double hocked backend he had? Honestly I dont even know what a double jointed backend would do or look like. Sorry wayoutwest prob a dumb question.

Bobby was a charter that is for sure.  If you knew Bobby personally there was hardly no other more fun to be around .  If Bobby liked ya you could learn something if he didn't you never stood a chance.  Best eye for a dog I ever seen myself and a man that could take somebodys cull and turn him into a champion not many can do that.  I see up there in one of the articles Indian Sunnys name he was a great great dog man. I never met him but I was and still am good good friends with a old dog man that Indian Sunny was his best man in his wedding.  These guys owned many many great great dogs famous dogs .  My old buddy owned the old Ma bitch that is the foundation to the Alien/Bullnumber 2 line of dogs are the Hendricks line of dogs they call the White dogs .  He owned Chinaman liter sister , a brother to Boecphes , Baby Spike , Red Danger and many more. I think he had a brother to the No Regrets dog...I have heard him talk about the Indian Bloomers bitch along with a ton of dogs straight off Bullyson and Eli Jr  just a ton of dogs way way back in the  60's 70's.  All the Grady Cummings dogs Eli II .  A ton of knowledge and wealth .   I bet a lot of your ole bulldogs didn't know that Eli Jr, Bolio and Java were all on the same yard at one time and that Eli Jr saw a little time with Bolio just for the fun of it as the story goes years and years ago .  I have heard the storys of Roland Fonteno's dogs  and Pit General  and people that were right there in that time and era . What Roland had to say to a buddy of mine about a certain line of dogs. The stories of Carver Black Widow and how all that came about right down to the ole Eli dog that was stolen. A buddy of mine his buddy knew Joe Corvino personaly and how LOL his buddy ended up with some of Mr Corvino's dogs its a wild wild wild story man and true .  How the Corvino dogs plays big roles in the Eli dogs hell am pushing my memory now but it sure is fun thinking about all this stuff .

Well I am all ears Jimmy  ;D  I would love to hear about Bolio and Eli Jr, as well as Black Widow Eli story and how corvinos dogs play a role with Eli dogs as one of the best dogs I have ever owned was really heavy Corvino. I know you can't tell them on here though. I know there is so much that isn't what it appears.

Yeah man you just cant put some things out there like that on the www.....number 2 I don't know if there is enuff room on this site for all of that LOL ....You know what am talking about it just goes on for days and days man.  I tell you what tho that story of how my buddys buddy got those Corvino dogs will have you laughin your ass off man ,  this was after Mr Corvino passed away .  Lmmfao ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha.  It brings a hell of a laugh while am sitting her now hahahahahahahahahahhahahahah.  Yeah over the years I had heard a lot of storys about the ole Eli dog but let me tell you when I heard this one I knew right then and there that's how it went , that's how it was and that was that it left no room for me to doubt and it made a ton of sense .  If you had a really true Corvino dog brother you had something I can tell you that .

Yeah mine was the smartest dog I ever owned or seen of any breed. She was beautiful too, she came out black brindle with yellow eyes, and she was much taller and more rangy then her littermates. yeah Jimmy I would love to hear that story about the corvino dogs some time. I can only imagine what went down haha.

  One of the things that Mr. Buddy told me about was there was a lot of paper switching back in the day. Not by the old breeders but by a lot of the newer guys getting into it, that wanted great dogs in their kennel name or other reasons.
  Seems like their are dishonorable people, no matter what time period we are in.

On a double hocked or slip hocked dog the lower leg can actually bend backwards as well as forwards from the lower joint. It's a real weakness that would be rare in a hunting dog cause he would not have any stamina in that back end. Dibo got away with it cause stamina was not a factor for him.

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This is not a lie! Several years ago I heard a news story on the radio where a joint task force of the FBI and I think maybe the USDA (?) busted an animal fighting ring in Boston, Mass. The twist is . . these people were fighting Canaries and had been breeding them for aggression for several years. When the bust went down they arrested a half dozen men and two women. They confiscated 112 Canaries, most of them yellow and one Zebra Finch of particularly unpleasant disposition. 

cajun, thanks so much for posting this stuff up. and misters jimmy and joel thanks so much for sharing your memories and knowledge. i dabbled with the dogs years ago but the two guys i was friends with who were really into the dogs were also really into making lots of money from other sources. this led me to decide i didnt want to risk prison so i quit going around the one guy nd the other went to prison for 15 years.  i did get in on helping school art lees ch colonel ( beat bill lees ivan the sire to lees jap). when i was just out of high school i went and saw jim moores white bandit dog. i had a female from orbie coplin but cant recall her ped as well as a grand daughter to red baby and also a bolio daughter, but those two had fake peds as bolio had been taken allready. my only claim to fame was stopping a female from the greenwoods okie and miss holiday breeding . i saw alot of dogs on curtis mayfields yard and dennis ruths as well as seeing when patricks had all his dogs in oregon about 36 years ago.

Man Gary, I haven't heard Orbie's name in a coons age. All those names were around when I first got in. Lots of that stuff went along with the dogs and I knew I wasn't going that route. Way back when people with jobs and careers messed with the dogs, now it's more of the criminal element. I first met Bert Sorrells and Bishop Hilliard down in Ca. 30 yrs ago.

Gary that is the ole stuff right there Jim Moore White Bandit are Bandilito .....Mr Coplin I never met those guys but my good friend knew both of them very well.  He had never ever had nothing but great things to say about both guys.  That was a long long time ago wasn't buddy damn man unreal how time changes everything .

yeah time flies. i met jim moore in 73 or 74 and in 76 i became friends with art lee who then introduced me to curtis and also ken tribes.i never saw ken go as far as the dogs but i did take him and art to a rooster deal. when i met curtis he had his first bulldog and i think it came from lowell lehman.  i was given a dog bred down from ken tribes dogs that went all back to jim williams dogs. the red baby grandaughter ethyl i had came from hillbilly jay shumway in so cal. i ended up trading her for some roosters to a guamanian guy who worked for curtis. brian ended up eatin her,lol. i remember when i was in high school one of the hot stud dogs in our area was a dog that was bred by sid dowd in arkansas. sid owned the feathered warrior magazine.the guy who got me in the roosters and also introduced me to art lee  had a female he got from pete sparks and she was a good producer and i think she ended up with pat gomez.

Hey Gary, moores white bandit dog was a really good one that a whole line of dogs came down from.

red, i did find out a few years ago about the alien bullchit dogs. in those dogs you will see the name on a dog or two of mcmullin. i remember goin to cal mcmullins house outside grants pass oregon tryin to buy some miner blue gamefowl from him and he had a pit built into their house. his wife joyce handeled roosters and i think dogs  also. man there is alot of stuff i wish i  had written down  but at the time it wasnt smart to have some of that stuff written down,lol. sadly i burnt some pictures i had from the 70s too.

The experiences and literature from the past is very much appreciated fellas! From somebody who wishes they grew up in the day y'all are speaking of, I greatly appreciate y'all sharing with us. When I come on here I don't always check every thread but if I know it's about bulldogs, I definitely click on it, and I truly appreciate this thread. Anything else y'all wish to share will be just as much appreciated!

Been out of town running bear. Willbe back tomorrow n should be able to post some more.

In the pit action, even I have heard of the great bitch Honeybunch. This was her 1st match.
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Reading all this is making me sick!   I had some good stuff myself years ago and I can't for the life of me think what I've done with all them old pics and stories.

   Cajun, have you came a cross anything on the Jeep dog of Crenshaw's?   I had some articles on him several years ago and the best I can remember he was a tremendous dog that sired several Champions.   I been waiting for the perfect Plott, I want to name a dog Jeep so bad, but I want it to be a good'en.  LOL

Thanks for posting and keep this good stuff coming.

He was a great dog his mother was mentioned in the last pictures. But there are some conflicting stories involved with I had a VERY close relative at his shows and voiced some concerns with the dog. First he was off of a cur that being Bo and that's no secret!! Second in his second show against weenie he made two turns both times looking for the wall but weenie caught him both times and he caught a break when weenie ran hot!!! MANY people say the JEEP dog would have quit that day and that Crenshaw won the match not JEEP!!! Third he was originally matched against CH ANGUS in his fourth show but there was a accident and CH HOMER replaced ANGUS but did not get a full keep. Homer was known for not having a mouth but known for being dead game. Jeep tore Homer's shoulder early and homer went down hill quick but not from the damage of jeep but the shock. Many old dogmen that were associated say the ANGUS dog would have ended all the talk of JEEP if the original match went through. Just a few tidbits about the CH JEEP  dog he was a good dog and produced some good ones. You will have critics with any thing but I had to voice my opinion. People and stories change but this sticks with me and thought I would share.

After the Homer match James was disgusted with Jeep cause he could have finished it much earlier but just laid there in hold. That is why he sold him. According to James his brother was a much better dog but Supernat didn't promote him. Jeep produced some sorry specimens but everything in the country with the means was backed up to him. He also produced some fine dogs! If you look back in history there are a buttload of famous curs who produced very good offspring. Snooty Rascal and Bullyson all quit at one time then went on to redeem themselves. It's more complex than the average dogman understands.

A super producing dog is not a dog that is bred 5000 times and makes a 100 Champions and 6000 culls . A super producing dog is one that is bred 10 times and makes 20 champions and only has a minimal amount of culls .  A super producing dog to me is one that you can breed to a fence post and the splinters will find , bay are catch hogs it don't matter who the bitch is are how she is bred .  Also he will pick your line of culls up and turn them into real contenders .

X2

I guess the average dog man that being me will never understand.

jimmy i absolutely agree on a producer. it was much easier with the game birds than with any type of dogs though as you could do many more matings and test them in shorter time frames and in greater numbers. years back a neighbor/ friend had a really good hog dog and he also had siblings that were near him and maybe a few as good as him. i could breed to any of this guys dogs i wanted and everyone was after to me to breed to jed. i said hes a great dog but why would i breed to him when i could breed to his father rusty. and i totally agree with the percentage of above average offspring  being what makes a producer being what counts as compared to one or maybe a few greats produced amongst a lot of mediocre or below average  ones. i had this one hen that i got nothing less than decent sons from and mainly above average ones. as you said it didnt matter what she was bred to either. sadly she never produced producers even when bred back to her sons. and her daughter werent producers either. all the sisters to this old hen were also producers . the brothers to her were basically all aces also. but now it gets wierder yet again,lol. this great hen, her sisters and thier ace brothers all came from one mating. this exact same mating was tried several times after and never produced the quality of that one clutch and im positive there wasnt  a mixup anywhere. as far as i know i never had a great producer in over 15 years with american bulldogs. i got one or 2 great dogs in a litter at most but also some culls in there too .

Gary do u think it might have just skipped are jumped a generation,?  I have seen that were those great producers make aces then those aces make avarage dogs to culls when bred but you breed one of those avarages dogs that is from the ace and the ace being from the producer and those dogs go right back to being producers like the hen that it all started with.??  A lot of times it just makes a cycle like that on great family bred dogs and come right back to were it started.

Gary was that hen her sisters and brothers were they crosses are was they linebred are inbred ?  I have seen what you are talking about before but almost always it was a cross .  The dogs were great great dogs and producers but they were crosses to start out with and they produced great great dogs but it just petered out you know what I mean .  I never seen this to much if the said hen are dog were family bred , just didn't see it much but the said hen are dog being a cross yes I have seen that a lot of times what you are talking about.

This is a perfect example of how hard it truly is to get a Super Producings Animal.  You get good producers and you get some that might be great producers.  If you ever ever truly see are know a Super Producer they are a rare, rare thing to behold.  Also when they come along I have seen it doesn't really matter if they are family bred are scatter bred its just a God given thing to that certain dog.  Many many of men have went their whole lives not owning one and worked their whole lifes to get one and never do.  Lots of people mistake Quantity over real true Quality   .  Lots of things go on popularity but when the real numbers are crunched that really shows just who is who .

the hen was a cross. she was 3/8 jap and 5/8 brown red. the only offspring from her that did produce was when i bred her to a chet cock(very linebred and inbred by myself and great crossing fowl) i gave 2 of the daughters to a guy who bred them till they died of old age and he got great birds from both hens.

i totally agree with the part on sometimes skipping a generation. luckily i kept a bunch of hens  that all of their brothers were mediocre at the best case and poor in some cases. man oh man were the offspring of those hens great, mainly aces in any company. me and the guys i let have some of those hens reffered to them as the three way kelsos as they were a blend  3 families of kelsos.

i remember sending a female ab to a guy one time and told him i had had her on some hogs in the woods several times and she did fine. as i had some young dogs out of her allreay that were lookin to be really good i was happy with what she threw. i told the guy i sent her to to not put her in a pen with a bad hog or anyhting as her value was as a brood bitch and not as a catch dog. i was afraid she might have a bad day or such and he would not want to breed her. after  she was 5 weeks pregnant and got loose and into a fight with his favorite bitch and killed her in 10 minutes, he decided i was right about him not needing to test her on hogs himself,lol. the reason we knew 10 minutes is because a neighbor saw the dogs get loose and start to fight  and went to try to call the owners and came back in 10 minutes and she was draggin a dead dog around.

Good deal ....I thought the hen was probably a cross.....Man I love to talk dogs, chickens and breeding and it don't make no difference what kind of a performance animal it is when it comes to breeding performance animals its about all the same from chickens to dogs to horses to what ever.

boy did you hit the nail on the head about super producers. its rare to be arround one much less own one. as you can tell i love this stuff too,lol

Article on Bob Wallace. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/12/yqa6y4y6.jpg)

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Hey Jimmy who was your best producing stud dog, and best producing female? How would you rate Toby?

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Here is the story on the Jeep x Homer match. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/19/qa7a5u3u.jpg)

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i so have to scan some pictures and put them on here somehow.

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Gary, I have just been taking pics. with my ph. & posting them from their using tap a talk. Makes it a hole lot easier.

lol, that be fine if i knew how to take pictures with a cell phone. i am one of the few folks who doesnt normally carry one. my wife finally made me get one less than 2 years ago.