EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Whats yalls feeling with prego gyps.

If have a gyp that's bred, it's for a reason... she ain't going nowhere till after the pups are born and weaned.

Roger that

If you bred your dog why would you hunt em

i tried it one time but the hotter i got the more i craved pickles  :D :D

To get tittled...only reason..

my personal theory is that the pups will be more inclined to hunt what the mama hunts if she is hunted while pregnant...but with hog hunting it would be dangerous to hunt her...especially in the last 2 weeks of pregnancy...

feeding the gyp a pig ear every now and then after one month of being pregnant might help in helping the pups to want to chase hogs when they are old enough to hunt...same with letting the gyp bay a hog in the pen a few times...

if she were a rabbit dog, squirrel dog, or coon dog I would hunt her almost to the last week mainly because I believe it will make the pups more inclined to hunt...JMO on that...

I was thinking something along those lines too, but figured I wouldn't say anything but it's funny

Ice cream would be more appropriate

I hunt my gyps till about  3-4 weeks out from having their pups. Usually when they start slowing down due to the extra weight is more of a indicator for me.

They start swelling up the last 2 weeks...

Not worth the possibility that all could be lost.atleast the way i see it.

I guess if ya treat your dog as a tool or a machine it's ok I just care about my dogs to each his own

I'm with you judge.

If I breed a dog, it's for a damn good reason. She's a good b*tchfirst of all, second of all, I want the pups off of her to survive hence me doing the breeding. With the high risk of injury in what we do, I feel that it would be a senseless risk to take.
I respect everyone's opinions on their theory's, however, I personally believe that pups in the womb, are blind, deaf, an can't smell. Therefore there is no benefit to hunting a pregnant bitch to imprint the pups if you will. I think genetics is what controls that factor. If that were the case, my son would absolutely love handling dogs....as when I was pregnant with him, I worked with dogs every day. Low and behold, he's five now and is scared to death of dogs! Go figure lol.

Same here,if i breed her,she stays put up,but each there own.

When it comes to care of their dogs, there are very few hog hunters who take care of their dogs better then I do! Seen plenty of pictures and in person, of their dogs and kennels to support that opinion!
My dogs are not only hunters they are family pets that get obedience trained, crate trained, sleep in the house at night, washed after very hunt, etc! A pregnant wolf, coyote, fox, lion, etc does not stop hunting when pregnant! Now when the gyps abilities start to slow down from the excessive weight they get put up, and the only exercise they get is running with me where there is no game to hunt! That has always worked for me, and I have never lost any of my gyps or pups that were born at my house!

That being said, everyone has their own opinion and beliefs on how they take care of their dogs! As colecross stated, to each their own!

We're talking domesticated dogs owned by people in a controlled environment in this scenario though. Out in nature in the wild, natural selection occurs. Those wild wolves dingos etc don't have owners who have invested money blood sweat and tears into them, and they don't have owners pairing them up for planned breedings for future working stock, lol. It all boils down to the risk factor. If one chooses to take the risk of their pregnant dog getting cut down, or body slammed in the stomach , then that's on them. We have a say so in our domesticated situation.


Sent from my iPad at the Southern Comfort Combine

I'll hunt her the first few weeks of being pregnant, but retire her till the pups are weened after that. If I have her bred, I want them pups, so I want mama healthy.

Womb-life and Serotonin Output: The Origin for Later Mental Illness
What I shall be discussing is our life in the womb and how it affects
the rest of our lives. Animal research sheds more light on all this. Let’s
begin with the mouse and her womb-life. It is only after several
months of gestation that the fetus produces adequate amounts of
inhibitory/repressive chemicals such as serotonin. A mouse fetus does
not make its own serotonin until close to the third trimester. It seems
like the mother supplies what is needed until the baby can take over.
But when the mother is low on supplies, she cannot fulfill what the
developing baby lacks.
Now if we extrapolate a bit to human mothers … but first a caveat:
It seems to me that the principles or laws of biology apply pretty much
across many species, so that what is true in the physiologic evolution
of mice might also be true in our own biologic evolution, as well, and
as the following discussion indicates, it is true; the lag between the
ability to experience pain and the ability to repress it can be
considerable.
Whereas the beginning of serotonin production in mice is sometime
in the third trimester, in humans it seems to begin slightly earlier.
Research on a fetus seems to indicate that I t can experience pain after
thirteen weeks from conception but that it really fully experiences
pain after 20-24 weeks of gestation—about five months of life in utero.
It is fully sensitive to adverse events at this time (Ranalli, 2000).
What is critical here is there is a time during gestation when the
fetus cannot produce repressive/inhibitory chemicals and must “ask”
for help physiologically from his mother. When the fetus does begin
manufacturing its own neurochemicals it sends some of it to the
mother. It says, “I can soothe myself now. Thanks for the help.” Above
all, serotonin is a soother. Its function is to bolster the gating function
so that pain does not slip across synapses in order to tell higher levels
about its predicament. It enhances the unconscious; that is its job. It is
merciful; that is, something in our brains has mercy and does its best
to keep us out of pain. It is therefore a big part of our humanity.
Although the pain-killing aspects of serotonin are well known, less
is known about its role in affecting appetite, gastric symptoms and
heart function. In short, it has a role in normal development and
150 Journal of Prenatal and Perinatal Psychology and Health
evolution. In particular, new evidence points to its role in actually
shaping some brain structures early in fetal life (Côté et al., 2007).
Traumas very early on, before the secretion of serotonin is evident
in the fetus, impact later serotonin output and can change who and
what we are significantly. One reason we see serious mental illness
arising during adolescence is that the hormonal turmoil going on and
the weakening of defenses permits some of the fetal pain to rise and
affect thought processes—hence: delusions and hallucinations.
Interestingly, in its early secretory life, serotonin functions to
control and shape anatomic structure. When levels drop over time, we
may expect changes in our body structure. Later on, it carries on as a
pain controller. It too evolves and changes. Thus, we as humans may
have a significant delay in secreting serotonin during gestation. And
we rely on our mother to pitch in before we start making our own. She
needs to have an adequate supply for both herself and her baby. If she
is chronically depressed she is apt to have low levels of serotonin, used
up in the fight against her pain. In this way, the mother cannot fulfill
the fetal needs for a way to blunt the impact of adverse events (i.e., of
pain). Thus, the fetus has developed a residue of unblocked, freefloating
pain and terror early in his gestation. This makes him much
more vulnerable to trauma at birth and in infancy. He has defective
coping mechanisms. Any later trauma can have double the impact on
the relatively undefended system.
The low serotonin output is an imprint that remains pretty much
the same throughout our life, making us not up the task of everyday
living. That is why we so desperately need serotonin enhancing
medication later in life (Prozac, Zoloft). The medication is helping to
block pain that may have happened before we set foot on this planet,
and to bring the levels up to normal readings.
We know from current research that an imprint during gestation
remains pristinely pure for all of our lives, whereas an imprint after
birth can produce compensating secretions that blunt the impact of
trauma during infancy. My very notion of the imprint means pre-birth
events may create irreversible dislocations of function in the
neurobiologic systems. The only way it can change is if we return to the
origin of the dislocation and right the ship. It needs a push from below
not a cry (an effort) from above.
It seems to be another biologic law that whatever happens during
gestation can alter basic physiologic set points, which is rarely the case
after birth when there can be compensatory mechanisms to make up
for the dislocation of function associated with the original trauma.
So we have a developing fetus who has no effective repressive
Arthur Janov 151
mechanisms trying to borrow some of mother’s serotonin to help out,
but to no avail. A completely naïve physical system has no frame of
reference that tells it that basic physiologic processes are deviated.
During gestation the system deviates and then considers that
deviation as normal. So the baby is born with an inadequate
serotonin/gating capacity and that deficiency follows him throughout
life. But it is an already wounded organism, a wound that almost no
one can see or even imagine. He will grow up chronically anxious,
unable to concentrate or focus. He may well be ADD/ADHD and be
unable to sit still because the activation goes on incessantly. It shows
itself in the panic attacks that happen when the system is vulnerable
and gating weak; the imprint from gestation rises to the top and
shouts out its message, which almost no one can decipher. It is such a
mystery because its origins are so arcane.
An example: A girl is born in wartime to a mother who is
chronically anxious because her husband has been sent to fight,
leaving her all alone. The anxious mother transmits some of that
emotion to her baby who is then considerably weakened. She cannot
fully repress to hold down pain. By the time infancy happens there is
already a weak, vulnerable baby who is chronically agitated. This may
be the beginning of serious mental illness. It is not obvious to the
human eye, but the damage is done.
Too often this is ascribed to heredity because no one can imagine
what has already happened in the womb. It is kind of a free-floating
anxiety that seems to have no specific time of origin. Remember, this
is a purely physiologic reaction which originated at a time when there
was no higher brain center to process the event. To recapture it we
must retreat to that primitive brain.
What we may see many decades later are panic and anxiety
attacks, and then much later a cerebral stroke. This imprint would
militate against cancer because for some cancers to develop, we often
need massive repression; and for that we need massive secretions of
“neurojuices” such as serotonin.
What would exacerbate the risk of cancer are events later in
infancy and childhood with unloving, stern parents. The result is a
person who never had outlets for his pain. We have seen several
epileptics who had that familial configuration. What further shuts
down the person is growing up with a violent father or mother, or a
strict religious household, with no one to turn to. The force of the
imprint may well affect the brain when the person is in his sixties.
How on earth can we access such remote experiences, back to a time
when there were no ideas to help out?



I looked around and found this article and only copied this part...I firmly believe in what the mama feels whether it is fright, happiness or excitement and that "SOME" of these experiences will affect the unborn baby/babies whether it be human or dog or mouse...

when we worry, reactions take place in our bodies and sometimes we develop ulcers because of the worrying...anger creates other reactions...a mama dog gets excited when she strikes a hot track and then she bays that hog or catches it not to mention the taste of that hog blood, or that smell in her nostrils that gets inhaled and some of those particles are transferred into the lungs where the blood picks up some of these particles and some of those reactions increase certain hormones and those hormones get elevated in that puppy... and that puppy reacts to certain stimuli when in training because of the imprinting in the womb...all these or chemical reactions and the puppies placenta is tied in to the mamas blood so that is where the pup gets its nutrients to live among other things that we or anyone for that matter does not understand or even know what reactions are actually happening due to what...just another theory of mine...

a while back we were having a party for our grandson and other kids were invited...one kid about 4 years old was eating our birds eye peppers I was told...of course I said no way and they brought the kid in to me...he said he did eat a handful and I said do not swallow any more peppers and he said he liked them and that he munched down on them...he went back out and came back in and put about seven or 8 red and green peppers in his mouth and chewed them up like he was eating a piece of chicken...long story short his mother was craving jalapenos throughout her pregnancy and she had never eaten them before...she said he asked for his first pepper at 2 years of age...coincidence???maybe  ???

If your dogs are good hunting dogs that posses the traits that you want in a hunting dog.. and are good producers on top of that... why in the hell would you chase some old wives tale that hunting a bred bitch makes hunting pups?

Shouldn't the dogs being bred be able to produce dogs that hunt just as well without doing something that was thought up before we had penecillin?

If you want one, some, or all of the pups to detatch from the uterine wall, die prematurely inside of the bitch, and cause a SEVERE infection that can kill a bitch that you thought was good enough to breed in the first place... then by all means.. hunt a bred bitch.

Genetics, heredity, a good understand of geneaology, and productive/educated breeding practices are the key factors in producing good hunting dogs, in my mind.. besides using proven stock.... not the theory that a molecular amount of seretonin is going to affect a dogs basic evolutionary desire to track and persue game. While its an interesting thought how some of sintroduced traits become fixed within a line of dogs... I think its more complex than things like the notion of hunting a bred bitch will make that much more of a hunting litter...

While we're comparing apples to oranges... If these notions were true.. You'd see bulldoggers breeding bitches and then matching them to produce better fighting pups.. and that is not at all the case.. Some of the best bulldogs alive came from bitches who wouldnt fight to defend themselves a day in their lives!

you make an excellent point...and I agree...but I like picking things apart...

genetics is where it is at...good handling a plus as well as conditioning...

but we can not argue with proper care of the female including good nutrition...

crack baby's and baby's from alcoholics are born with a serious disadvantage due to improper care and negligence...

I used to believe that the sire was just as important in a breeding program as the dam...I still do when it comes to genetics...but the mama is the one who spends all her time with the pups and they are connected to her as well...

PD Orleans...I believe in genetics and breeding the best to the best...especially within a family of high quality of dogs...I also believe in testing pups for natural ability for hunting and breeding purposes...and what is wrong with trying to take it to a higher level???there is a few who believe as I do...and you are right about old wives tales...some are truths, some are half truths and some are just that...

I don't think I said to hunt the gyp because hogs can be dangerous to a pregnant gyp...especially if it is a long race in the heat...

but there is nothing wrong with controlled situations such as caged hogs, bay pens and throwing a raw ear to the pregnant gyp once in a while...at 5 weeks I will throw a head to the pups and watch them go at it...but I make sure they are hungry before I throw it in their pen...I am willing to take a few chances wit raw pork a few times to hopefully imprint the pups in a way to get them to like pig at an earlier stage in their life...

Ruben I have done the exact thing one litter I did that and let them bay with there momma at early age and one litter I did nothing till 4 months no difference hat so ever that I could tell

Good article Reubin.
Everyone has good points for and for not hunting while pregnant! It boils down to personal preference. Never caused a problem for me, or my gyp! When she showed signs of her ability being less, she gets put up!

You can have what you think is the best dogs since sliced bred, that does not guarantee the get will be the same!

I want natural selection to work in my dogs even if they are partially civilized!! Lol.. I always like the person who says their dogs are the best, just look at their scars!! I always told them that it looks like to me you need a dog that can handle/fight a hog better!! Scars prove nothing other then the hog got the best of them! The best fighters hardly ever take punishment, they are giving the punishment!

hunting a prego bitch to hype up a upcomming litter for sale?still risky but an idea i cam up with as a possibility some rookie may try to coin in on.

Nice try but I don't make any money on sale of pups....

when I was a kid I hunted my dogs about every day...the female I had she went even though she looked like she had a watermelon inside her...but we didn't have hogs back then in that part of the country...we ran and caught just about everything that the dogs could catch including snakes...hog dogging is a different game...besides a dangerous game we are talking about some long races as well...

but there is nothing wrong with controlled situations such as caged hogs, bay pens and throwing a raw ear to the pregnant gyp once in a while...at 5 weeks I will throw a head to the pups and watch them go at it...but I make sure they are hungry before I throw it in their pen...I am willing to take a few chances wit raw pork a few times to hopefully imprint the pups in a way to get them to like pig at an earlier stage in their life...

a calculated risk I am willing to take is feeding a raw wild hog head to the pups to eat on at 6 weeks on...a few times is all that I believe is needed...just letting the pups skip a meal before feeding a head with all the neck meat and they will be fighting over it...I believe it is a good way to start the pups out...

didnt mention any names,dont kno nothing about you or your dogs.

So, you give/gift them to suitable homes?

Yes