EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

That's not my intention but a friend of mine stopped by last night picking up some dogs and made metion to me that 2 Cat. dogs he just bought from a local registered cat. breeder were garbage.  He now is stuck with 2 dogs because his wife bought them as a christmas gift to him and would raise hell if he got rid of the dogs she paid 500.00 a piece for because they were PRETTY.  Now one thing that really gets under my skin is when someone is breeding dogs just from what they look like with no proven hunting line in them.  I just don't understand why someone would breed and sell as HUNTING dogs when all you are getting is a sh*t eater that looks good.  What I am getting at is we have enough mutts running in the woods making hogs smater as it is and we got these people just adding more to it.  BTW this is not the first person that I've heard about being shafted by this breeder.  Am I the only one this bothers?

 I agree with you cause I got shafted a couple of months back. Someone asked about some dude in victoria on another thread and I let him know all about the dude, cause he was the one who burned me. I let him know cause I don't want anyone to get screwed over like I did.

sounds to me like the wife had good intentions but probably should have enlisted the help of some of his hunting friends. If this guy is a reputable breeder he might replace them. Bottom line is this happens every day, unfortunately

If anyone wants to know who he is PM me cause he has been burning alot of people.

In my opion this happens way to often these days!!

There are two people that caused this situation/problem.

The buyer and the seller.

As long as there is a market for "pretty dogs", I imagine the seller will continue to breed them.

 

with any dog you have to be careful and make sure and buy from a breeder that is also a hunter, but even then its a dice roll, sucks the guy got stuck with 2 big feed bills like that, reminds me to tell my wife NOT to buy me any dogs for xmas, lol

In the end, I feed my dogs, not my wife.  Whether her feelings got hurt or not, they would be going back.  Maybe next year she just gives me CASH. ;D

I like the way Cutter Bay Thinks, What she going to Do Leave Him over some dogs :o

Yes sir... I don't understand everyone getting screwed on dog deals?

This may ruffle some feathers... but it's real easy not be screwed. ;)

I think way to many rush into to something that's sounds good or looks good.

Agreed mike.  Its not that hard to do some research on a dog and the person saleing it.

I agree his wife should have asked a couple of his friends it just really gets me with peoples way of thinking these days.  I gave him 2 started dogs just to keep him hunting plus time to thin the dogs, deer season is about to start up and the hogs will be getting a rest for a couple months. ;D

yea sucks dont it

I think I seen those dogs on the dog trade? :oJK

i think most of us have been screwed at least once, when we were new.

there are more pet breeders out there than hunters breeding good pups. 

people are breeding for money instead of breeding to keep some dogs around. selling pups for $200 and up is crazy. you never know what you are going to get.

Who's worse? The guy selling the puppy for $200 or $500 or the person who has bought the dog and knows it is not worth nothing but still turns around and sells it for a "hog dog"?

My wife would never buy a dog in the first place much less for $500. She gripes when I bring home dogs. Cause she has to feed them for the 2 weeks I am gone. Just she if the man will take them back, if not just cut the losses.

Buying puppies even out of proven lines is always a roll of the dice.  We've all seen litters of well bred dogs throw both gems and lumps of coal. 

Of course there are puppy mills, show dog breeders, and hunting breeders.....all have different agendas and goals (on top of making money)....

Bottom line is that it is a gamble with a puppy and all a person can do is do his/her homework when purchasing a puppy and hope for the best.......sure, things like "guarantees" are great, but those are few and far between with pups.

I have no idea about the details behind this transaction but looking at the factors of puppies that you didn't get to research and pick.......the odds were stacked against you from the beginning.

It would be nice if it was a hunting breeder and he/she would honor a RETURN........

 If you see a dog for sale on a forum ,a quick search of the seller will show you the deal. There are a few that list dog after dog. You know what that means.
  You can get mad at all the sellers you want. The BUYER is the one handing over the money........

This is one of the things that really gets me stirred up...people breeding crappy dogs then selling them off instead of doing what needs to be done with them. And not just breeders, "hunters" buy a dog, it wont hunt, so they sell it instead of cutting their losses, and the cycle continues. Why this happens I'll never understand, I guess everyones looking for the next best thing.  I think a lot of it has to do with everyone having different standards for what "good" dogs are   ???

Well I don't sell dogs but I thank the dog breeder should honor the deal if he sold the dogs as hunting stock.. But I do breed my own working/hunting dogs..If you think about it alot of old timers they culled hard to keep there gentics right and to weed the bad gentic out...If you are a breeder and you  have culls man up and do what you are supossed to..A true cull will never leave my place...MY WIFE STILL FEEDS MY DOGS AND SLOPS MY HOGS...No she picks most my pups...

Got a couple messages about who this breeder is and I should have included this in the original post but the breeder I'm speaking about is in the Winter Haven, FL area which is in central FL, so most everyone on this forum wouldn't have to worry about this guy(just a small local guy).  Just wanted to clear the air about the general location.  Just chaps my a** that guys trying to get into the sport have to learn the hard way from these people.

which friend bought these dogs jseay, i think i know who you are talking about. if so the guy has his own website and going there and seeing videos you can tell he dont know what he is doing

Can't really fault the guys wife for trying...It was the thought that counts!

A couple years ago my wife overheard me talking to someone about wanting a new tracking system for my dogs.  About a month later at Christmas, I opened a box containing ten little bells that you clip to a dogs collar like I suppose they use on bird dogs??  I tried my best to show appreciation, and put them in a drawer in the garage where they still sit.  She tried, and it was her thoughtfulness in which I was most grateful.

With that said...be it dogs, vehicles or basically any other item someone might desire to purchase, there will always be someone out there mis-representing what they are offering for the sake of a dollar.  I've been burned on deals, just as I'm sure most people have but I'm a firm believer that in the end what goes around comes around.

bells.....I like that!!! ;D


   The last thing my g/f would buy me is a dog. She always gets that look when I talk about a new one.

This is something that I disagree with.  It will be debated to the end of time.  Have you ever really sat down and figured what it cost to raise a litter of pups?  What is your bloodline of dogs worth for you to part with?  The list could go on and on.

i have been around hunting dogs for almost 20 years i don't think i know everything but if u think u can just go buy a puppy out of hog dog stock then ur wrong i would say that 80 percent of pups don't turn out i would personally never own a pup because of exactully what happened to u i have raised pups out of top dogs before and out of 9 pups one made a decient dog it is cheaper in the long run to go buy a year old dog and try it they r usually cheaper than a pup and u can try them right then and get rid of them if they don't work out.  i dont' know the situtation but if u expect pups to just go bay pigs that won't happen either u need an older dog to show them what to do and the pups may not be mature enough to start yet i have seen dogs that would not start hunting until almost two years old and then they make a heck of a dog so give the pups a chance they may turn it on this is just my 2 cents

If you're consistently getting a 20% turn out rate, you're breeding the wrong dogs, I don't care how good the individual dogs are. Those 2 top dogs that only 1 of 9 pups made a decent dog...I'd say the 2 dogs bred were most likely scatterbred. There's quite a bit more to producing quality dogs than just putting 2 top dogs together.

thats why i don't talk on here much because people always have something smart to say i am done with this topic all i can say is my idea of a good dog and yours must be different those two scattered brained dogs have bayed more hogs than any other i have hunted with in 15 years

 ??? ??? ???... who had something smart to say?

  Scott,
   I think he is talking about 80% of dogs wont make a good one which is prolly pretty close. Look at the classifieds. People seem to think a dogs breed(plott,bmc etc) makes a good dog.

Don't forget the hunters/ dog owners. So many newbies think that u buy a hog dog and it is supposed to get out and do what they want it to do without any handling. The hunters who like to sit around the truck and drink beer are the worst for any dog especially a young dog.  I know that this isn't the case in this situation, but the uneducated hunter is more to blame than the breeders in most cases. I have personally gone and got dogs back from people who said they wouldn't hunt and with very little effort the dogs are finding and running their own hogs to bay. Sometimes in real long races. The dog didn't hunt for them because they never got off the fourwheeler or left the truck to walk the puppy in the woods. Pure Laziness and lack of expierience is mostly to blame. Not the dogs.

it was as much the buyer as the seller it sounds like, maybe i missed something but i didnt see where the dogs were guaranteed to be any more than pretty, i know from my yard for 500 all you would get is a started dog with no guarantee of anything other than "that the dog is healthy"

If you are breeding and 80% dont turn out stop what your doing and start over, i expect and most times get 80% that turn out good dogs with the other 20% at least being help dogs

"its the thought that counts" that keeps coming to mind here

many questions should have been asked and there are lots of details left out here i think
#1 how old are they
#2 how long has he had them
#3 what has he done with them (all these questions would be asked to the new owner) before you can tell if the dogs are "worthless"

That is true jhy. Just like kids the more quality time you spend with your pups the better.

Respectfully, I'm going to disagree.  It's been my observation over the years that most people don't realize a good well-bred hunting dog shouldn't need to be walked in the woods.  Even with my young pups, I might walk them in 20 yards or so but after that they better get gone.

on the money bryant

My Aunt and Uncle have a Catahoula for a companion only. They wanted that breed and paid good money for it knowing it was going to be a yard dog. So, some people do like these dogs for non-hunting purposes.

The Wife had good intentions I give her that, something my wife would not do. But, like others have said probably research the breeders and do your homework when paying that kind of money for a dog.

My 2 cents worth  :)

The post he referred to was misread.



Scatterbred, as in random breeding, the opposite of line or inbreeding....... Not scatterbrained....... Your offended because you didn't read the actual words written.

It should be noted that there will always be the unscrupulous AND uneducated breeders of pretty color and novelty. Some are out to make a buck on said novelty and will lie through their teeth to make that sale. Some don't know any better and truly believe that their progeny are performance bred simply because of the breed or pedigree. Regardless of reason, the result of each scenario is identical, the buyer expecting a performance animal gets screwed..... Don't think this dynamic is limited to Cats either. It holds true for any breed expressing even a single unique trait.

As long as there are clueless buyers out there, they will support the clueless breeders and, for the most part everyone will be happy. The issue only becomes evident when a buyer really did expect a performance animal. Because of that, we will never be able to rid the world of crappy breeders.

So what can we do? Exactly what we are. Speak out and educate. That's obviously not a perfect answer, it won't put pet breeders out of business, but it is certainly better than not.

Worst case scenario, one newbe, in the market for a couple of hogdog pups, reads THIS THREAD and as a result asks the perspective breeder when the last time HIS dogs, the actual parents of the pup, caught a pig was.

If the answer is "never but the grand parents were hog dogs", or "I don't actually hunt very often", or "all X breed dogs hunt, its in their blood", said newbe now knows to turn and run like hell!

If the answer is "last weekend for the stud and just before the gyp was bred" the newbe should start asking to see pictures or hunt with the parents.

And guess what, they know that too because of this conversation. Because WE as hogdoggers, users, and breeders of performance animals took the time to EDUCATE the general population.

At least that is the way it works in my lala land.

Steve

I agree and have no problem with the ones that will tell you up front these dogs are not bred from hunting lines.  My grip is the ones that will tell you that these are the best hunting dogs known to man knowing good and well they are more than likely never going to amount to anything but a good looking yard dog.

I agree and have no problem with the ones that will tell you up front these dogs are not bred from hunting lines.  My grip is the ones that will tell you that these are the best hunting dogs known to man knowing good and well they are more than likely never going to amount to anything but a good looking yard dog.
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Aww..yessir I agree with you on that one.

Their are exceptions, but u still walk urs in even if it only takes 20yds but I am guessing u have them on the ground with finished dogs. A dog is a dog and most need to have confidence built up and require more work than dropping a tailgate and sitting down and waiting on them to find a hog as a pup. Especially if there isn't any fresh sign around.

Sorry, I cant type very well from my phone so I will re word my point.  As a majority puppies are going to be just that, and when in the hands of inexpierenced hunters they are going to remain ignorant to what is going on.  It is easy for folks that have been doing this a while to take the right steps in training and getting a young dog going, but for someone who doesnt know what is going on and just rides a fourwheeler around the woods with a pup running in front of it isnt going to teach it anything except how to run in front of a fourwheeler.  Especially in places where there isnt a lot of hogs.  I have learned the hard way through trial and error and I know when to put a pup up and when to put them on the ground.  I also have learned how to assess a pup and k