EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

He is there at every bay will come from 1000 yards away and be there like lighting he has found a couple pigs on his on and really gets out and hunts about 2 years old catches every time with the bulldog and will hold a bay for ever  what y'all think he is worth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To me a dog is worth what ever you can live with him leaving for. I have hunted with guys that have sold dogs for 500 to 1500 that I would have paid 100 bucks for so it's really up to the buyer and seller. People can say what they want ( help ) dog makes no since to me cause any dog that didn't strike the pig is now helping so makes no sence to me I understand the term but kinda like he plays ball but he is on defense lol just cuz they don't strike every hog don't mean there not a hog dog

I expect every dog in my pack to help unless they are running a separate pig.  If they are not willing to help and go to the bay when another dog makes the strike and bay I am fixing to cull them or sell them off as a pet.  Not gonna keep them in the hog hunting world. 

sorry didnt answer your question.... but there is not a dog in my yard in my main pack that I would sell for less than $1,500. 

When I was starting out I would probably have paid $300 for a dog as you described- 2 years is young enough to invest a little money in.  I would not have thought twice about it.   Now that I've been doing this for a while and I have a pack of my own dogs, I dont need a dog as such, so I would not pay for a dog (today)- but I wouldnt turn him down if given to me by someone I know.

A dog as you described is useful to me and I think it should be usefull to others at times.  If all my dogs get cut down today and I dont have anything- your dog just got purchased.  I think a dog such as your should be priced at $300 by the seller.  It may not be worth that much to some, but someone may need a dog like that tomorrow. 

Something else to add- I believe there are a lot of great help dogs out there that could make good find dogs if given the chance.  Many of us use our main dogs to start with and we never bring out the full potential of the great started dog.  I make a point to give everyone one of my dogs a lot of chance to find a hog on thier own.

See I never thought about selling him I only hunt 4 bay dogs I took a guy hunting recently and was offered 500 for him it was one of the rare times when he strikes his own pig most of the time one of my other 3 do all the finding I don't have any money in any of my dogs I got all them when they where pups and trained them so I didn't know if that was a good price or not and I wood consitter selling him cuz I just got a new pup and I think she is going to make a good one thank y'all for the help 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a great point +1000.   Learned this the hard way.  Used to always put my main strike dog down by himself and he was very good at finding a pig,   then he got killed and I started using his litter mate to strike and he turned out even better and was better at stopping the hog.  When you run multiple dogs there is always that alpha male syndrome and it effects them.   

What would it cost u to buy a dog that will do what he does. With equivalent potential. Here's the thing about putting a price on something. If u are willing to pay that price it's a fair price to u. With dogs the only other person that matters is the guy buying. As long as u are honest about the dog u are fine. Be the price $20 or $20,000.


Shotgun
Arkansas

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/16/100a86c125dae7c946f4cc41167b9a7c.jpg)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/16/5067f5fb36932a8db1fec2a8501ad656.jpg) I get tied this guy down about 30 min ago bout 2/12 in teath 3rd big one in to week i think I am going to keep him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I had my choice all my dogs would be strike dogs...a great help dog needs to bring something to the table like being a very good stop dog...if he just runs with the pack and bays then he would be a cull...

10-4!!!!!     Using a young dog to "help"  while he's in training is one thing but a dog of adequate age to strike and bay hogs on his own being used to simply "help" will not fly around here.     

Man how many barrels y'all use up on those 22 rifles lol. This help dog stuff I don't get so will a help dog not find a hog and only bay if if a strike dog is there ? If your running coons and a dog goes treed and a second dog trees is he helping or treeing ? I understand the term just makes no since that would be a bay dog not a strike dog. Just curious on what y'all think. If you have a dog that always strikes but when you hunt with your buddy his strike over yours does that mean on those hunts he is a help dog and needs to be culled ?

   

Well Judge I'll debate with you once again.  LOL  If I took my dogs hunting with a buddy and his dogs ALWAYS struck and bayed in front of mine I would without a doubt cull mine and get some like my friend.   Also, my interpretation of a "help dog" is a dog that basically won't do it on his own.  I mean yea he may find an easy hog every once in a while and bay it but what I would consider a "help dog" to be a dog that won't run a hog very far alone or stay bayed very long alone.  IMO it don't think it takes much of a dog to run and bay with another a dog and the thing that separates good dogs from "help dogs" is the desire to get it done and not look back for help.   After a dog has proven this desire it all comes down to natural ability to determine just how good he can be.   Overall I guess what I'm trying to say is, my definition of a "help dog" would be a dog that requires "help" himself.    I am not knocking anyone's hunting style or their dogs, I just simply backed Rueben's statement with a little of my own feelings on the subject.

I guess my buddy's need to borrow your used barrels lol then I will need it. Y'all must have some awesome dogs wish I could reach those types of standards but for now I will just keep my mutts

No one ever said anything about "awesome dogs."    If you want to make me out to be some kind of arrogant guy that's bragging on his dog to make yourself feel better for not striving to go beyond mediocre that's fine but it would be easier to just admit that descent dogs aren't that elusive and quit condemning anyone who strives to own a good dog.   Judge, every time I make a comment you show your ass and try to turn my words into arrogance and frankly, I'm sick of it.   I could care less what you think about me and I'm sure you could care less  what I think but unfortunately for both of us this is a public site and there are folks on here I do like to follow and we're just going to have to get along.   Good luck

Not at  all brother if ya can't tell I am a jokester. I never said you where anything and don't have to make my self feel better about anything. I just said it must be nice to have those standards and you get all butt hurt calling me a ass. That's fine been called worse I won't say by better cuz I don't know ya but I do know this that you got mad enough to search out my number and call me and talk crap on the phone over Internet talk skin must be thin up in Oklahoma. I am and will always be happy for any one who can better them selfs or there dogs lol and your right any one can say anything on this site

To me a dog that is not striking it's own is a help dog till it starts striking its own. A help dog in my opinion should only be young dogs. Because I think any dog worth feeding should be able to at least stumble across a couple hogs in 2 years.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Judge I can assure you no one has thin skin, I just take quality of dogs a HELLVA lot more serious than you!    Good luck

My point is everyone of my dogs better go help the others when a hog is struck.  In the ebb and flow of hogging with dogs there are always times when I have certain dogs that are further along or just plain out better than some of my others at being a one man show.  Again with that being said I expect all of my dogs to help when a hog is struck. 

To me a help dog is not a strike dog...he might get lucky and find one every now and then...and alone will not range far or run a hog for too long...but when this dog teams up with a good hog dog then it will go the distance...the only way I would keep this dog is if he brings something to the hunt like being a great stop dog...

Oconee I know deep down inside you want to be my friend lol. My dogs are nothing fancy just bunch of misfits. I did get to breed some decent blood into my dogs thanks to a buddy. But I do take my dogs serous the main difference between us to me is you like a dog to run a hog for miles by him self I like a dog that can stop one fast as he can. This is more than likely cuz you have big land to hunt I don't so that's the style I need to be successful. Back to help dog so if me and you hunted and my dog out struk your best dog would you cull it on the spot ? If your dog out struck my best dog I would say man you got a nice dog so if that's being helleva lot more serious than me then I guess you are my friend

Ruben I agree with that to a point I have hog dogs I ain't never under stood all these do and donts I catch hogs so it might be help strike rcd bay dog what ever they get it done lol I just like dogs and hogs

Oconee next time your bout to cull one of them ole plotts for not making your cut I will buy em and see if will make my cut as  I have been wanting a good fast gritty hound I am serous this is not a joke

I have to somewhat agree with Reuben. I wont keep a two year old dog that won't get out and hunt and consistently find, hold its own hog. I'm not worried about stopping power because I run all loose dogs so I won't even keep a help dog for that.

I believe a lot also depends on the hunter..like said before.

Do you know anybody (carpenter, electrician, plumber, ect.) that goes to work with just one tool?  Each profession and in most cases sport has multiple tools.  Baseball picthers have different pitches, batters different bats, and defensive players use different gloves based on thier position....

I look at my pack of dogs as different tools.  Each dog has things I really like about that dog and they all do something I wish they didnt, but none are perfect.  I dont call any of my dogs help dogs, but they have all been used multiple times to help another dog in the pack.

If at the end of the day, I can catch a hog or at least feel like I had a chance to catch a hog, then I am happy.  If someone needs a help dog in thier pack to go home happy at the end of a hunt then so be it.  If the dog is bringing a benefit to the hunt, they can eat my dog food.

71409 I agree

I took my three dogs last week hoping for a short fast hunt.  All three had a separate bay at the same time.  I sure needed some help! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You DAMN right!!!!    Lets see a pack with a 1 good dog and 2 "help dogs" pull that off!!!    All I am saying is it don't take but 1 good dog to bay a hog and I would just assume my other dogs be young dogs in training with potential to be the lead dog some day.   The moment these pups show me they do not have what it takes to make lead dogs they are done!!!!   I don't keep them to "help" the dog that I'm using to train them.   Sounds like reatj81 has what we should all be striving for, a pack of nice dogs.

X2...the goal should be to take any dog out of the kennels and find and bring to bay hogs...I also agree with hoghunter71409...I know a hunter that catches lots of hogs with a mixed pack of dogs...

Reatj81 that's awesome your dogs can do that. Most can't

Thanks guys.  It doesn't happen every day but it is common.  Hog hunting can sure put a dog out for a couple of weeks, and I'm not going to be sidelined when this happens.  I decided years ago if I feed them they have to be able to produce pork, and they have to be breed worthy. I don't keep many dogs, so if I loose one I can breed the two I have and have more, or get one of their relatives that have been placed to breed to what I already have.   



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree...we all should be striving for producing top performing dogs that produce consistently more of the same...it is hard to achieve consistency with scatter bred dogs...it is easy enough to produce a high percentage of good dogs when one lucks into a good line of dogs and one has culled hard for a few generations with these good dogs...a good breeder can get to the point of culling good dogs that are considered to be great dogs by some...what I mean by culling meaning not good enough to stay but good for someone else...at one time I had dogs like that...but don't have that now...now I only care for decent dogs and will slowly breed towards improvement...at my age I have to put away money and not spend like when I was a young man...I'll even take a help dog that brings something to the pack...what I thought were great dogs some would say they open on track (not good)...too long range...too much bottom...but I sure like it when I turn a few dogs like this in some big woods with just a few porkers in it and these dogs more often than not bay hogs...good dogs are good dogs no matter who owns them...

if more doggers took breeding seriously there would be a lot more good dogs out there...some of the best dog breeders spend weeks and/or months trying to decide which dogs to breed in there back yard/kennels...one can settle for ok or not be satisfied until they have made the best possible decision for making the right breeding...that is the first half of it...the second half is selecting and retaining the best pups for hunting and breeding...the cream will rise to the top...

Reuben I agree with most of that. This is just my opinion but if you are culling a lot then you probly need to slow down on your breeding not you personally just in general.

JP you are 100 percent right IMO...once the dogs are where there is not much improvement it is time to slow it down and enjoy what we have...otherwise we will get to where we need to bring in new blood which I believe it is best to stay away from that scenario is long as possible...

Rueben I am bout where I want to be as a pack I can take any of my dogs out and feel like I have a good chance to find pigs. Some don't have as much bottom as I would like next breeding in a few yrs or so I will put some hound in there in my crosses and see where it goes but as for now I am good

good deal JP...you are catching pigs...that is the proof right there...

Rueben I agree once you get to a point that most of the litters are all uniform in appearance and ability then it's either time to slow way down on your breeding or add fresh blood from another established line. To me a help dog is a dog that doesn't have the ability to produce a hog on his own and is used only as a pack dog that is sent in to a dog already baying. Some people will feed a dog of this caliber but I personally don't have the money or time to be feeding it. I want every baydog I feed to be able to produce hogs on their own.

Thanks Reuben I truly believe my success is do to a good well rounded pack. Most of the time a good pack will out preform a super star well that is my opinion dogs are like wolfs better the pack better the Alfa is

Well I can tell you this much, don't ever take a mans word on a dog without trying it because a mans word these days sho ain't what it used to be... I had about a 3-4 yr old brindle cur gyp that was in my eyes one of the best help dogs you can have and she was a pretty good strike dog, and I got on this site and a few others trying to sell her and this was about 5 months ago. Well some ole boy from temple and another boy from Victoria wanted to trade a dog for mine and I said ok... So we met up and when we traded I told them, if this dog ain't what you say it is and it don't work out for me or viseversa I'm gonna let you know and I'm gonna want my dog back. Well you know how the rest goes... The dog wasn't worth pissin on and mine was worth somewhere between 500-700 give or take.... And of course I called and called and texted and no reply and I find this guy trying to sell my dog on another site for 1000 and just to shorten this I ended up gettin ahold of him and he denied everything. They are both a couple of sorry mother do iters in my eyes and I wish I knew their names cuz I damn sure would call them out. All I know is ones short and fat from temple and the other one is a Mexican feller from Victoria. Given the opportunity I'd whip their ass for all it's worth but oh well you learn from your mistakes... The moral of this story is what you put in is what you're gonna get. I didn't put the time and effort in to seeing what this dog was like and in return I got a dog that was honestly absolutely good for nothing. So watch who you deal with on here and sorry to ruin your post but I had to vent for a little while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boss hoggin you right bout that most fellas these days worry only of there wallets and mostly what goes in not out. In my eyes if a man can't stand behind what he says he ain't worth the back hoe running long enough to dig his hole that's a fact. Now some people will tell you what you don't want to hear but you kinda can respect that at least they got the ball to tell ya where they stand still don't make them worth two cents.  Now some of the most egotistical  mouth running scum I have met dealing with dogs and horses. You might be in better company in some cases hanging out with a crack head least you know what they are going to do just some observations I have made in my life

Lol help dog Huh? Depends on how much he helps I guess... If that means he/she finds hogs every now and then, and is at every bay then seems like a good dog that needs a chance to be lead... If your "help" dog is just at every bay then you probably have a decent bay dog. Probably would still be a good idea to give them a few hints out in front to see whats really there. If your "help" dog just runs with the other dogs and doesn't do much and never struck a hog on its own then it's not much of a help dog is it? Lol Idk that I'd consider any dog 2yrs or under anything yet unless they are striking hogs already. Most dogs still have puppy tendencies at 1.5 - 2yrs old, so trying to put a tag on a dog that might become outstanding at 3yrs of age doesn't seem like a good breeding plan to me. JMO I like to see some sign of major improvement before 2yrs old, so if they're not doing much by 2yrs then I normally don't keep em. Now what they're worth....? Lol something my granddad told my dad, and my dad told me, is something is only worth what someone else will pay you for it. Just food for thought... We as dog men know what we'd like for our dogs to be worth, but getting someone to pay what we think a dog is worth is like wishin. Chit in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first. ;D