EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

For a couple of years I have been trying to understand why Dogo Argentino catch dogs are priced two to three times as much as other catch dogs. I've seen Dogos, Pitts, Americans and various crosses all used effectively as catch dogs. I haven't seen the Dogos do anything the others can't do.

As best I can tell, Dogo pricing is purely a function of the effect of the somewhat exotic name mixed with brand psychology. I could be wrong (which is why I'm posting here), but experience is difficult to argue against. Do others have educated views on the subject?

 :o

It all depends on product availability and the demand for the product. Them dogs are being priced just like them wrights bred curs are from some sellers. Some folks think bc they paid 2500 for a dog, that other will too, which they r right, plus the high price keeps the rif raf from polluting and diluting the dogo as they did with other good line. It's a cross between highway robbery and lineage protection.

Thanks, Charles. The rif-raf and supply combination occurred to me, but after thinking about it, I decided that practical value would outweigh such factors for nearly all buyers. It certainly does for me. After all, there are hard catching lines of Pitts, Americans, etc. that breed true and aren't too difficult to find. I'm therefore more inclined to go with the psychological factors that create the market environment for highway robbery.

Practical value, no. Some folks sell them wright bred curs for 1000-2000 n folks pay it. No different with the dogo or coon dogs or bird dogs. As long as their is a demand, there will b those that jump on that to financialy rape people for a pup, but its also buyers who continue to kerp the demand up.

I don't know about bird dogs, but the high dollar coondog market is driven by competition hunters willing to pay for the odds of obtaining a winning dog, which can be backed up by the seller pointing to actual competition wins (however relative the value of the "wins" may be). Names certainly play a big role in that market. After all, that's how we designate certain lines. Even there, however, pup prices are pretty close and consistent.

But the Dogo deal is different: I know of no practical measure that a Dogo seller can point to and say, "That's why my started Dogo is worth $1000 even though you can buy a more than serviceable, fully trained catch dog for half the price or less." One guy told me Dogos can catch mountain lions and other "dangerous game." When I asked for some proof, he was miffed.

There are hunting comps for the dogo and according to several googled dogo links, the info was they are used to catch jags n hogs n other game in the south american jungle. Some on this forum use nothing but dogos for both find/bay/catch dogs. Occasionaly pits can find/bay/catch, but most are strictly catch dogs whereas the dogo is more than an over priced catch dog, they r an all around hunting dog.

If there is empirical evidence of Dogos catching, as opposed to "hunting" or "baying," jaguars and the like, I'd like to see it. I too  have seen reports of Dogos used to "hunt" such game, but I have never seen a Dogo actually used to literally catch big cats. There are plenty of hounds, curs and crosses that "hunt" big game. You can buy pups from proven lines of such dogs for $200-$300.

I don't see the big deal if guys want to pay those prices so be it they couldn't buy my pit for that

Obviously anyone can pay how much they want for whatever they want. In terms of hunting dog economics, however, there is generally a strong correlation between price and practical value. With this in mind, I'm asking why the relatively high price for Dogos in the absence of a practical benefit gained for the higher price.

I would argue the contention that Dogos can hunt and catch doesn't change much of anything. There are many dogs that can follow a hot track and catch too. That's the general definition of a running catch dog. One may counter that Dogos can catch better than other running catch dogs. If that is true, where is the proof? Further, even a limited understanding of canine genetics renders the proposition that molosser Dogos can track as well as cur or hound running catch dogs doubtful at best, making the improved catching ability a trade off for decreased tracking acumen. This puts us right back where we were in our consideration of the price.

I get your drift there are a big pile of dogs that can do what a dogo can do but they might not have the hold power of a dogo. I have only hunted with one and he does good but as far as a return in a money relative term  I would say a cur of sorts rcd would be more cost effective. 1500 to 2500 a pup will keep me from getting one

Dogos cost a lot because they are a purebreed and aren't supposed to be hunted, they're supposed to be bred to other pure dogos and you quickly get your money back off of dogo argentino enthusiasts ( as opposed to hunters).

Proper hunting dogs are ofcourse cheap as dirt because the understanding is they'll probably get killed. That is unless they're a proven adult working dog that has already survived hunting many many times, then they are, for good reason, expensive.

Not sure why you would want to hunt with a recognised breed, by definition it is a show dog, and yes sacrificing show dogs to boars is a very expensive exercise.

So, then you do not consider American Bulldogs, APBTs, Plotts, BMC, Catahoula, etc. recognized breeds?

I don't know if he does but the AKC doesn't recognize those breeds.

And where did u get the definition of a dogo as a show dog? Everything iv found online about the dogo, they were bred for hunting, not show. There are many pure bred lines out there that are used in some form of hunting, be it hogs, deer (where legal), coons, birds, lions, so pure breds are not only bred for show, but hunting too. I think ur reaching saying dogs are only for show, and some on this forum would call bs on them being only for show

If I'm not mistaken certain mountain lion dogs have fetched 10,000 plus so whats the big deal about hunting with a 2500  dogo. I've used my do go bitch for a catch dog its a big chance but when I first got her I wanted to make sure she was the real deal. I'm not about to bread a white dogo just to say I have a dogo

In my opinion the price is due to availability and the brand. Every swinging Johnson has a pit. To some of the folks running Dogos are using it as a status symbol of sorts. Others see the chance to make a dollar. Just as a peterbilt and a frieghtliner will haul a load the Pete has a higher status and cool factor as well as price tag. I feel as the dogo becomes more readily available the price will drop. Simply because of market saturation and lower numbers of people willing to pay the price. Once folks start getting stuck with pups they will sell the next batch for less.


Shotgun
Arkansas

A lot of the dogos are going towards show etc... Pricing is relative to a lot of things that other breeds don't do per say. Such as BAER testing, OFA hip certs, registration costs, and other expenses that folks charge for added in. The breed is now acknowledged by the AKC under misc breeds. I have seen pups go from $1,500 to as high as $5,000 a pup and these were for both pets and show dogs not hunting. Most hunting dogos with papers go from $1,500 to $2,000 non registered from $4-600 +/-.

I went to dogos from my bulldogs due to size, stamina, and ability that I liked. I got tired of 30-60 pound earrings and wanted something taller and faster. A good well bred dogo can out perform most pits and bulldogs. An more so in long distance bays where their stamina and speed prevail.

The problem is getting dogs from good proven lines as they are going the way of the ridgeback, GSD, and other once great breeds. Too many show and pet owners/breeders and not enough hunting breeders. Plus folks crossing with other breeds and calling them dogos.

I've had pits  ab and dogos as catch dogs they've all been real great catch dogs not much difference in them but I prefer my dogo, it's more of a personal preference than anything cause I like to have a big athletic CD, but I agree the price is way too high if you can find an unregistered dogo you can get a lot better deal on one that's what I did for my male I have now I got him for about 250

I think that the main reason people sell them for so much is because it's became a really popular breed and they can make a quick buck of them

you got a deal then as most non registered start at $400 and go up. Unless crossed or something. Just saying from a long time of experience with the bred LOL.

You are correct with the exception of the Plott. Just wondering what his definition of recognized was. I believe all of the breeds I mentioned are "registered" by UKC, NKC, or others

Yeah I know, my step dad has had dogos for 15 years and his were registered so I'm pretty familiar with the breed too lol

I think it's just the fad and people band wagon on to it. I believe the high price is due to the internet and new comers to the sport. Like was stated above it's all about supply and demand on top if marketing. If people are so stupid to jump out and pay that for a pup then I see why the prices are so high. Just like the wright bred curs being so high before there was supply and demand there was dang good marketing by whom ever. I've never been just shellshocked by either. If some one were to show up to the NFR next yr and win the all around on a painted Appaloosa unicorn then the following yr there would be a big demand for them. It's all about saying oooohhh I got this and I had to give this for it I know it's going to be a good dog. As far as keeping the riff raff out, I don't see it because if some joe blow scrimps and saves to buy a 2500$ pup do you honestly think their going to put it down if it doesn't do anything. No, their going to breed that sucker and try to recoup some of their money thus in return throwing more junk in the gene pools. Do I believe there are good dogos out there? Absolutely, and I also believe there are good honest breeders out there to. I just haven't figured out why some folks want to re invent the wheel, but to each his own.

Of course its your personal experience but this is surprising "A good well bred dogo can out perform most pits and bulldogs."

I'd be willing to bet most of the folks actually hunting their dogos didn't pay those prices for them.  If you have a yard full of dogs you've paid $1k+ for that your hunting knowing chances are strong they will eventually get killed then you have more money than sense.

There's show breeders, and working breeders and most of the time they don't intermingle.

I have several American Bulldogs on my yard all of which were given to me as pups at some point in time by fellow hunters who were more interested in seeing the results of their breedings than how the dogs would perform in a show ring.  I'm talking dogs who based on pedigrees alone would fetch top dollar.  There are a few breeders of all types of dogs out there whose primary focus isn't money driven...you just have to find them.

I find it really hard to blame a seller for what I feel like are unreasonable prices, when there are buyers happy to pay it.   Some of you would probably hit the floor if you knew what it actually cost Yeti to build a cooler....but sales are strong.

Dogos are priced high because a lot goes into breeding them. Such as Baer testing and hip testing ect.... I say keep the price high so not every back yard breeder can get their hands on them. If you want a cheap dogo you can find them. I've had the breed my whole life but the last two years I have become very involved with the breed, I have taken in so much knowledge from great breeders. And even a few people in this site who use them. The dogo shouldn't just be a catch dog. It should be a dog who can find and hold any size hog until you get to it. The dogo have the size to help control the hog and the stamina and lung capacity to stay in the game. For those who don't believe the dogs are used in puma contact actual breeders in Argentina, they will show you videos of the dogs in full combat with puma with all their claws and teeth.  Don't compare a dogo to a pit because they are two very different dogs. Compare a well bred dogo to a very gritty rough cur dog. And to those of you who say dogos are pretty white show dogs, you should know that a lot of dogo owners/ breeders hate breeders who solely breed for show only. Some of us are very passionate about the breed and have done years upon years of research on them and only seek to better this breed and help it not become the next back yard pitbull.

It's a old saying " you pay for what you get" I don't think that's the case with a dogo. I think a lot of people like said in above post use it as a status symbol and like to tell people " I got a dogo". Most I have seen have been some regripping knawing all over a hog type dog and don't get me wrong I've seen Bulldogs do it to. But it's a lot easier to raise a bulldog up and cull it when you only got 200-400$ in it than raise a dogo and decide it should of been culled when you got 2000$ in it. The price probably won't ever come down because I don't think they will ever flood the market it's not that many people that want them. its no type of dog going to ever replace the Pitt bull as a catch dog, when it comes down to dying or letting go I feel like the dogo will let go but most decent Pitts won't ever have a second thought, and that's the kind I want not one that's going to be thinking about it

With hunting dogs, pups especially, the more you pay the worse the dog. It indicates the breeder is breeding to make money, that's their motivation. Exotic pure breeds with a reputation that precedes them are the worst of all, the dogo a perfect example. Such breeds draw in snake oil salesmen like fat kids to cake, and they start breeding "dogo argentinos" to sell "dogo argentinos". Maybe some hunters incidentally breed pure dogos, idk, but if you seek out a dogo argentino you will stumble into one of the former "dogo argentino breeders" 999 times out of 1000, and get a pretty dog that can stand there and "be a dogo argentino" but do little else. Maybe be a lead in catch dog just because it's such a simple job that nearly any big headed dog can do.

If you look for hunters, and then grab whatever pup they have on the ground to give away or for 50 bucks or something, most likely it will be a good hunting dog, and not a purebreed anything.

We hunt dogo's and they are stronger and faster and bigger than Bulldogs. we also have pits. They still catch hogs. The best way to get your money back is sell them at a reasonable price and breed great hog dogs. I love my dogo. Not gonna try to talk you into one if you don't see the appeal but the breed is fascinating and that's originally what got me enamored with the breed. Then I hunted with one that hit and held like a Mack truck. So we decided to try one and loved it.

X2

I payed 1500. For my male. He is out of one of only 4 grand world champions. After 3 breedings from dam he is the only one that hunts.  Im happy with him. Hes everything ive trained/allowed him to be.. he has more potental than I have to offer him. Ive been around a few DOGOs and I feel he is a least alittle better than most. I just wish more poeple can see him in the woods with a open. A huge plus he is great with my kids. That alone is priceless....

x3

Fixit you need to come down and hunt sometime.

do any of you dogo folks know arron bornstein?  he goes by dogodad online . he had the only sch 3 dogo at the time some years back. that dog was also hunted by himself at times too and he was hell when catching also.

Aaron is a good friend of mine. I hunted with both of his dogos at one time and he got both of his from a mutual friend in Argentina. I'm trying to get him to come hunt with us again to get his mind off things due to just losing his wife.

In fact Gary he said for you to tell stories about Petey just now LOL.

oh hell sj i didnt know. im not sure if i have a current number or even email for him. do you think i could get his contact infor from you. my email is gnrbull@aol.com   arron came up here a couple times when he was still in so cal. i cant rmember if we put sampson on hogs here at my place but i know we put he new dog michael on em here . i think he was the one that broke out of his crate in arrons pickup when they drove up my driveway and he saw or smelled the hogs in my pen,lol.. thanks gary

lol sj, please tell him i said hi and my sincerest condolencences on his loss.  and as for petey i can sure tell stories lol. petey was an ab i bred and he was the best catchdog on big boars i ever owned or saw on a consistant basis. ill see if i can find the story i wrote on him for the american bulldog review some years back and put it in a post in general disscussion , thanks gary

Just my 2 cents, which is about all its worth.  I bought a dogo 4 years ago for $400.  He was not papered but looked exactly like the pictures I had seen.  I was not in the market for one, I just stumbled across this one.  I ended up needing some money and I sold him for $1,200.  He was worth every penny and there is not a day that goes by that i don't think about that dog.  His gas tank never came close to being empty and he found, ran and caught many a hogs.  But most impressive was his ability to work and hold big hogs.  His agility, strength, and size was impressive.  He would stand toe to toe with the big hogs and I kid you not if he was by himself he would latch on the snout of the hog and the hog would not move.  They would be facing each other nose to nose.  He never once got cut and I hunted him for 2 years.

Groundskeeper, thats exactly what my female dogo is doing, latching hold of the snout. I would prefer ear only, but it seems she controls the hogs pretty good. I caught 3 yesterday with her n my cowdog. From watching the 2 of them work the hogs, that dang cur would go for what ever part of the hog he could but she would go for snout 99% of the time. And dang she was fast too. Would  catch up to the hog but didnt seem to know how to judge speed bc she flew past them, stopped n turned on a dime n had it caught. I was greatly impressed with her speed n stamina

For thoes that know DOGOs there ok with holding snout there just bigger and stronger and able to do so. And a huge plus NO RIPPED EARS!!(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/01/29649aa366eaefa5c0c5042e7313473b.jpg)

Y'all are silly! Dogos are expensive because they are magical creatures! They must be because they are, for the most part, mediocre catch dogs at best. I know there are some hard ones that are exceptional catch dogs....but then I've seen some yella dogs and spotted dogs that were exceptional catch dogs. All in all they weren't intended to be catch dogs so what should we expect.

I like big dogs. Most dogos are junk. Most folks have not hunted with big dogs yet speak as if they know everything. After not being able to find quality dogos, I decided to breed up my own big dogs. Cheaper than buying and sorting thru cull quality dogos.

You all healed up? Im ready.

A true Dogo is not junk, plain and simple, owned them and hunting them a long time! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting there. Been hunting some, but still not 100%

Smart man. Any number of crosses will reproduce a dogo or better perfectly. They are very much a "mongrel pig dog", which, don't get me wrong, is the best kind of dog there is, but they aren't worth a lot of money because you can make em so easily.

If a dogo can be made so easily, then there would be more of them and the market would be flooded. by saying any number of crosses can produce them and be produced easily. That statement has more crap in it than Christmas goose

Ok to clarify what I mean is you can make what is functionally a dogo with any number of crosses. Obviously you can't make a papered pedigreed dogo argentino ready to prance around a show ring or have it's litters sold for thousands of dollars. No, but you can easily make a dog that can do everything a dogo is supposed to be able to do, let alone what it actually can do these days, which becomes increasingly limited with every purebred generation.

I think it's hilarious when guys write off a whole breed because they hunted with a couple that weren't worth a damn. Makes me laugh. I've seen some pretty damned sorry dogs of just about every breed out there.
Y'all are silly sometimes hahaha

EXACTLY! ! I have hunted behind two BMCs both out of same yard. The male was a top shelf strike dog. The bitch .......well she looked good.lol

And then there are those who have seen more culled than most others have laid hand on...those folks are laughing too...

The dogo breed as it was originally bread is a top shelf game dog.  I owned one first hand, He hunt, run and catch.  I am sure that the breed is watered down like every breed out there.  I dont care if he is a DOGO or a POGO or a Plotahoula all true HOG DOGS are expensive and most true do it all dogs are never sold.  But to the person that said DOGO's are not any good and you can mix any dogs out there to get one is just wrong and ignorant. 

Anyone ever see a picture of one of the early crosses? The claim is that there are approx 10 breeds in the mix. I've never seen anything but a large white dog, close to the final product. Would be nice form a historical perspective. Id guess there are fewer in the mix than stated, maybe something like a plott x AB cross and breed the ones that work... and are white. The mixed crosses that can get the job done are over on the Aussie hog dog board. Of course personal preference and culling are needed. 

should add that a lot of the breeds that supposedly went into the dogo are often used in those mixed up Aussie pig dogs. Boxer, Bull Terrier or other bull breed, Great Dane, Irish Wilfhound, some Mastiff, some sight hound. Surprisingly too they sometimes turn out looking like an American Bulldog or Dogo. These pups were listed as; APBT, Bullarab, mastiff, boxer, bullterrier x Wolfhound x Bullarab
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh248/Teag2/PitbullBullArabMastiffBoxerBullTerriercrossWolfhoundxArab_zps3d09b1c4.jpg) (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/Teag2/media/PitbullBullArabMastiffBoxerBullTerriercrossWolfhoundxArab_zps3d09b1c4.jpg.html)

Seems like the dogo breed as a hole is as about as iffy as a half bay dog half pit or half bull dog.        Dilute the pits and bull dogs by half and u still got a good percentage of hard catch dogs.    Yet a pit costs 100 bucks.   

Easy enough to get a dog that fills the same niche as a dogo too.   Dane/pit cross will find their own and are some awsome catch dogs.  Why pay sooooo much money for a breed when there are so many other options as good or better for a fraction of the price?   How is a jam up dogo better than an average dane/pit cross?   

Just for the record I didn't say they weren't any good. They can be good, but because they have a breed name, what that equates to is there's a good chance they won't be. It means there's a lot of people out there breeding them just because they're dogo argentinos, rather than because they can hunt. And so it follows you run the risk of running into dogos that suck at hunting. This risk is far reduced with no name mutts, because they're only bred to hunt. No one is breeding dane x boxer x wolfhound x greyhound x pit x mastiffs because dane x boxer x wolfhound x greyhound x pit x mastiffs are their favourite breed and/or they think there's a market to sell puppies. Such a dog is only bred to hunt. The dogo can not say that anymore, because it has had a breed name slapped on it. That is always the beginning of the end for any serious dog lineage.

Keep in mind I own a bull arab, but the same exact thing applies to it. I reluctantly and cautiously got one aware of the risk and not liking the fact it was a "pure" bull arab, even though most of them, by a big margin, are bred to hunt, the fact they have a name means the rot is gonna set in at some point because it draws in fans and enthusiasts and snake oil salesmen. I would not have been cautious getting a "wolfhound x dane x pit x pointer x greyhound" because I know it's a legit hunting dog because there's no other reason anyone would be breeding it. I know from experience they're always good. Anything with a name is a crap shoot, and that's just the way it is. I'm not picking on the dogo specifically, I'm picking on the fact, readily observable to all, that breeds invariably, always, get ruined. The chorus of disappointed hunters who got dogos, around the world (including in argentina), is no surprise to me.

They WERE great dogs at some point, back when they were mutts bred only to hunt. Now a lot of them are big pretty lumps of crap, because that is all they're bred to be. I'm sure there are still good ones but it's only gonna get harder and harder to find them. And even the good ones are no better than a purpose bred mutt, this isn't an insult. Purpose bred mutts are the best dogs there are. Dogos used to be one and that is when they were great.

I agree 100% and believe that applies to just about all breeds these days. When money and mass production become involved... quality goes out the door.

Gun, where about do u live ? Down under ?

yep