EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

What do yall consider a fair price on a pup?  I bred my dog to a stud dog a few county's over. They got 2 pups for stud fee. There price on a pup is way different than mine. These are registered BMC pups. I was just curious as to what kind of price do yall consider decent. Pups are done the right way. They have had the proper worming at the proper time. And before they leave will have there shots . After doing all that. Putting all the work in. (Softening up a high quality puppy food) etc...what do yall consider a fair price on a pup. After all is done the right way? My price is half the price of the stud dog owners.

Youre gonna get some highly variable responses.
I feel it all depends on the breed, the lineage, what YOU value your dogs at.
I look forward to reading all the opinions you get on this subject.
Good topic.

Iv been trading my reg curs for a couple bags dog food or $50.

Good point mrs la...i am just basing this question off of my pups. Most folks (other than dog hunters) would consider a cross bred dog a "mutt" . They dont consider the work-ability in the dog. When yall post prices of your pups please post the breed as well.

Oh youre very right. Yes those same folks will pay a rediculous amount for a
"Designer breed" aka cross breed puppy just because they make a cutsie name for it lol. Years ago I used to be an adoption coordinator at a shelter and id joke about mashing breed names together on the mixed dogs to heop get them adopted lol.

Labradoodle?? Yorkipoo? Chiweenie??  $500 plus...i think im in the wrong line of work.

Well in my opinion 3 to 500 is a fair price a very mediocre lab pup sales for 4 to 800 a rottie goes for 500 up and these are just back yard dogs. If guys are some what serous bout there dogs they probly don't have a bunch of pups hanging around. If it's a high dollar dog or a mutt vet bills and feed are the same. If a guy won't pay few hundred for a good pup he probly won't take care of it and give it the right and fair chance to make a dog just some things I have seen

Good answer judge. Those are accurate prices on those breeds pups as well. Alot of folks dont realize what goes in to PROPERLY raising a litter. It gets expensive if its done the right way.

Ya you don't have to spend big money to get a good pup but I hear a lot off people say I won't pay that will that is fine when ya pay 100 buck dog has worms crooked jaw and fleas them comes with parvo you will spend 3 times that amount or have lost 200 plus gas and what ever else to prepare for a pup just don't make since those are the same guys that will want you to buy that same 100 dollar pup for 1200 at a yr old lol just what I have seen

$100 bill for a good grade blackmouth pup.
$200 for a sure nuff well line bred pup.

Anymore than that your to desperate to buy one.


All this mess about you can't raise them for that at six weeks old is feeding Cavier and Sirloin.

I would like to add.....that.....just because someone charges a high amount for pups they sell....sure is no guarantee that the pups will be 100% healthy and free of issues. Ive experienced this myself unfortunately.

Mrs la that's a fact it could happen to any pup from any one. The price on pups for the most part your paying for the mans time in the pups more than name breed or looks if they just thrown in a kennel tossed food and water ya they probly 100 buckers lol

And there is the difference! 

Never charged anyone a penny for doing what I truly was passionate about.
When them ole cur dogs get to be a chore someone has to pay me for the time I put in em.......time to sell out.

Well most aren't like you my friend I am talking bout the guys that have 5 litters a yr just to make a dollar cuz they know every joe blow hog hunter will pay 100 bucks for 5 or 6 pups a yr and cull all but one lol

I charged 250$ for my pups. I dont breed dogs. The last dogs i bred was 3 years ago. It was coon hounds and it was because i wanted a pup off my JAM UP COON DOG and my buddys AWESOME FEMALE.  But i guess im one that charges for my time. Those coon hound pups were 250$ as well.  But i look at it like this. I raise them until there 8 weeks old. I feed a somewhat high dollar feed. When the pups are old enough i start softening up a good quality puppy food and giving it to them twice a day. (I have to do this around my work schedule)...Give the mama dog vitamins and supplements to pass on to the pups through her milk. And not to mention the price of getting there regristration papers. Worm the pups 4 times before they leave. And shots. All that stuff adds up pretty quick. And my time is valuable to me. At 250$ i sure aint making a living off these pups. I just take pride in them and when a pup leaves my yard i feel good knowing that the buyer left with a good quality dog that i did everything i could do to insure the overall health and wellness of.

Georgia well put

Not starting an argument gents.  ;)

But most of the things listed can be accomplished with an overall longevity of upkeep and health in your lines.

Mamma gyp will feed em long enough until weening age. After that couple bags of good feed with some dry milk will get them ready to go.
Complete worming and a booster shot and that's it boys. Anything over that is pure precautions or supplementing a weakness in the overall health of the line.

Papers.........let's put that under luxury tax. I agree with you on that. That is completely for the buyer to compensate.

But the issue on charging for your time ......just don't compute to me and never has.

Only discussion gents......Only discussion.

I completly understand your point of view. And thats is what the original question was all about. I wanted to see what other folks considered "fair" on there prices. I tell u what i wish u lived closer. You sure got some good looking dogs and i'd sure pay 100$ for one.  But back to the topic. I know the mama dog gives them everything they need. That is the way the good lord designed them. I personally dont think giving them vitamins Has anything to do with the "line" of dog. I just like to help them along the way. They would be perfectly fine with or without it. I just like to "go the extra mile for my dogs and pups" . When someone gets a dog from me i just feel good telling them all i have done for it and ensuring them that to the best of my knowledge the dog is healthy and ready to be taken to the next level.

Papers don't mean much to me. Shots and supplements will never change weakness in a dogs line only better breeding will fix that shots and supplements prevent diseases and boost the over all health of the immune system if you will do research you will see the purer the line the weaker there immune system and the more long term health issues they will have just some things I have learned over the yrs

See there. Learn something new every day. That makes sense and i woulda never thought of it. But on the other hand i would do the same thing with the purest of dogs or dogs that were in no way shape or form kin to one another

I agree with most if that.

Been line and inbreeding for long long time. Key is knowing when to step away from the flame or throw another log on the fire.

When your line starts getting to close.....it will tell ya.

Anyone with linebred stuff that suffers from hereditary weaker immune systems. Did some dances with the devil but didn't pay the fiddler. ;D

Lol true that

I never have been a good business man when it comes to dog dealing...back when I had my line of dogs I didn't sell any but gave a few away way south of me...and a few buddies got a few here and there for free...

I have sold a few good young dogs that were better than average that I didn't like for one reason or other...and sold them very reasonably...I never have put a value on the feed and care including kennel cleaning, training and socialization required to make a dog...

I just gave away a pretty good dog about 3 weeks ago that was in his prime...

If you do absolutely everything you're supposed to do according to vets and stuff you break even selling the pups for $100-200 or so, that seems fair to me, but I get selling them cheaper too or even giving them away because when people take pups off your hands they're doing you a favour as well as vice versa.

People trying to profit off producing dogs are a different thing entirely, I personally choose not to grouped with such people. I am not in that game and don't want to be.

That's awesome Reuben I hope he was in need nothing better than helping a good person out it will be paid back 100 fold

I use to buy pups for 300 and up all day long and use to be on waiting lists. I've culled every one of them pups it seems like.
 
Best dogs I've owned and hunted behind was done on a handshake to raise it and hunt the piss out of it, and if it don't meet your expectations, cull it.  I make it a point to keep in contact with the guy who I got the pup from to gauge it against it's littermates.

I will give a pup to a buddy no ? But they will have to give it back not cull it. I gave some pups away before only to here they where sold.

Now we are cooking with Quaker State!  :D

I like mobile lol

I'm with YBM. It's not that big of a deal to me to give a few extra shots and an extra bag of dog food to feed a few more pups. I enjoy having pups and raising them and hunting them. I've never sold a dog or a pup. I usally keep a few and the rest will go back to the guys that gave me the line and a few select other people. I don't consider the cost because if i did i wouldn't have dogs! LOL

Like!!

Only a couple pups have left my place but they left this way.

I say sell them for whatever you want as long as you can sleep well at night knowing what you did.

Keep in mind, the more you sell them for the more your names going to get slung through the mud.  I don't care how good a dogs your breeding, they won't satisfy everyone....and if you're breeding dogs to TRY and satisfy everyone I don't think I want what your selling anyhow.

Every pup that has left my yard (which is very few) left with an open agreement that at ANYTIME in that dogs life the buyer wasn't satisfied, I'd buy it back.  I make this agreement knowing full well that some won't make the grade, but if I give your money back you can't throw my name around saying I sold you some snake oil.  I also don't want a cull pup off my dogs being bred, so this is a simple way of removing said dog.  Having said all that, I'll also say that I've never bought one back.

I also have a gentleman's agreement that if the owner no longer wants the dog (perhaps getting out of hunting, or whatever reason) then I also ask for first opportunity at buying the dog at owners asking price.

This has worked well for me, but I also don't sell many pups and I'm pretty selective on who I sell them to.

I have bought or traded for very few dogs/puppies. But, I know what I consider reasonable to pay for a pup don't match up with what most folks are asking. I ocassionally raise a litter and if some are for sale, it's at a reasonable, working man's price.Doesn't matter if sold or placed...if it turns out to be a cull, I'll replace it. Then again, not just anyone can get a pup from me either.

I have to agree with almost everyone at some point in this topic but have to say I agree with YBM more so, if I have to be compensated for being responsible for bringing a litter of dogs into this world that would be like me saying that when my son gets married asking his wife and her family to compensate me for raising him. I've hD my own dogs for close to 15 yrs and I can count on one hand how many dogs I've sold I don't see nothing wrong with someone selling pups as long as their honest about it, I'm just funny about who I want having my dogs, my two biggest things is I don't want somebody taking a pup from me and if it don't turn out running my name through the mud and if it don't meet my expectations for the litter them continuing to breed it, that's the very reason I don't sell pups and when I do get rid of some they stay within a close circle of friends, I used to be nice and give several young hunters good bred pups but I've become calloused over to that when I would see those dogs for sale or if I saw someone else other than the person I give the dog hunting it, my only stipulations were that the dogs come back to me if they didn't make the cut that way I could personally put the dogs down and know that they weren't bring bred.

Whole lot of the same feelings there Goose.  ;)

It's very hard for me to sell a pup I like to keep them all until they are up around 6 months in age so I can get a fair guess on what dogs are going to be the true hunting dogs. I really hate to see a puppy leave my place fair price 250 - 300


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  I had to think about this awhile before I decided to respond. There are a lot of variables on what is a fair market price & it all boils down to supply & demand. If the demand is greater then the supply the more a pup is worth. If not, it will be cheaper. Simple economics.  I normally breed a couple litters a year. Out of that litter I will keep 2 or 3 pups & give my friends some pups. Any left over I will sell. If they don't make it, I replace the pups.
  Like said above, I have given pups away, only to find out they are for sale a couple of months down the road. The other side of the coin, there are people out there that do not give a pup a chance. Dog stays in a kennel for a year, then is thrown in the woods & the owner expects him to go find hogs. When he doesnt he is a cull. That & he stays in the kennel & is not handled he becomes shy & hard to catch so he is a cull.
  Everybody has culls but a responsible person will back up his breeding program. I saw a while back one of my dogs being passed around the internet & found out where he came from. This dog had never been hunted but run in a pen a lil bit. Yet instead of being culled he kept getting sold off of his kennel name. It is a double edge sword & selling pups to somebody you do not know is always a gamble.
  Bottom line, a pup is worth what you pay for it & it is up to the buyer to give it a fair shot.

Not beating a dead horse.....still just conversating!

Figured I would just do a little math just to reassure myself that I was not behind the times on raising pups.

These figures are what I pay locally per item and includes everything needed to raise a set of pups to the age of six weeks old.

I also rounded up on most amounts just to make sure I was fair.
Here is what I came up with.

Let's use 10 pups as the theoretical litter.

Costs me. 
$50 for puppy feed
$25 for dry milk
$70 for shots
$20 for wormer
Grand total of $165 bucks for a litter of ten pups
Equals out to $16.50 a pup

If I sell them at $100 a pup............gives me $835 profit...."For my time"  :laugh:

So again boys? ??????????? Where is the fair price in charging ten times that for pups?

Again I guess it boils down to completely different mind sets in what Fair is. :angel:

Them numbers make sound cents myles.  ;D I sure hav to agree with ya on them numbers, nvr looked at it like that. After u laying out in $, i guess a couple bags of dog food is a lil much for trade. Guess i need to bring it down to a bag on trade

Guess that's why I usually give pups away to my peeps instead of having them swipe their master card.

Nothing against folks selling pups. I support it actually .......just never understood the whole ..........its this price due to the costs of raising pups.   Nah.........its just the seller jacking the price for personal gain. And that is where I point the horse down a different trail.

Grown dogs or older pups ......warrant different circumstances .....due to the dogs working ability.  That I do believe has a value that should be considered in compensation.

Never sold a pup. Try not to have anymore than I have to. My old man didn't believe in buying or selling dogs. We always got a pup free from family friends and returned the favor when the situation arose. To me if I was gonna buy or sell I figure $50 is fair enough on a weened pup . Older pup that's actually showing potential a lil higher. The last and only dog I sold was a walker dog about 8months old. She would bay a lil but something about her I didn't like. I couldn't put my finger on it. I sold her for $26. I payed $25 for her papers and added $1 to cover the stamp and envelope. The guy that bought her saw exactly what I saw. A month later she was baying real well. The guy asked if I wished I had kept her. I told him no. She bayed good but I still didn't like something about the dog. A mans price on his pups is fair as long as someone is willing to pay it.


Shotgun
Arkansas

your numbers differ because you don't add in the purchase price of the dam, stud fee or purchase price of stud, cost of health testing for sire and dam, cost of feeding dam, vet bills of dam, cost of working/proving dam, cost of your time for whelping and raising the litter, cost of vet checking pups, etc.

Different for me. Im not set up for pups so it cost alot more.
Feed 200.00
Kennel 300.00.
Late for work to clean kennel.  2000.00
Scoop poop 5000.00
Listen to wife saying it all my fault 10,000.00
Worming 200.00.
Corid. 40.00
Shots. 80.00
Time to take pictures 100.00
Cute little santa hat to send to buyers for Christmas 15.00 + 100.00 for the fustration that i had to put it on all the dam pups. Sold pups for 450.00
Total profit -12,000.00
I have payed alot for pups in the past.  To me a pup is only worth the person you get it from. The BEST pups are not sold but placed in hands of friends, family and the like

Purchase price for Dam and Sire.......Why would I want to put that expense off in someone else? My choice to buy them.
Cost for health testing Sire and Dam.......Do they stay sick?
Cost for feeding Dam...........If your not raising pups from her does she eat for free?
Cost if vet bills from Dam........Again why are they always at the vet?
Cost of working /proving Dam........Is this a chore and inconvenience for you to do this?
Cost of whelping a litter .........Already defined above........Paying for your time? Again is this a chore for anyone?
Cost of vet checking pups ..........What's wrong with them?  If they are sick, weak, or deformed .....knock them in the head and start figuring out where it came from.

Sooooo basically we are back to around $16.50 a pup?

So how is $100 to $200 a pup not a fair asking price?  Again maybe I am throwed off! Haha

Good convo boys! :D

If a person has to charge for the price of the parents, the raising of the litter, the feeding of the parents. Then it sound the person is in it for the money not the raising of a proper litter.
Where does charging for raising and whelping come into play?
Is the momma dog not raising and whelping?
Did she die after birth to where a person has to do all the feeding and care taking of the pups?
But Myles is correct in his math and ways of thinking and took me a while to come to a similar conclusion. But to each their own.


Again, will hav to agree with ya.

Well every ones math is different don't make it right or wrong just different out look on what a fella thinks is fair. The price really don't matter if your willing to pay it but as most things sold it's only as good as the fella standing in front of ya. Just ask your self this how many did ya sale how many came back vs pups gave away that made a circle jerk only to be sold at some point. No right or wrong just different out looks

If more people had this attitude there would be a lot more good dogs in the world.   This puppy selling thing is a VERY sore issue with me and I have stayed away from this topic as long as I could.   I got into Plotts over 4 years ago and my main objective was to build a line of Plotts I could hunt and breed around for MYSELF and my friends.   I started researching bloodlines and trying to find what sounded like would suit my needs.   If you were going to buy a well bred plott pup today the going price is $300-$500 and to a guy that's working for every penny that's a tough pill to swallow.   You add shipping from some of the eastern states where most of the big game bred plotts reside and its nothing for a plott pup to land in your yard costing you well over $500.     Now I will switch gears a little and talk about what is good for the breed and the dog world in general.   CULLING.  IMO we must cull the bad and breed the good  NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!    When you add this kind of money  for a pup into the equation it cannot help but to redirect ones intentions when it comes time to cull.   Its pretty hard for a working man to cull a yearling dog that he likely has close to $600-$1000 invested in just because he won't stay bayed by himself or he has no bottom and this cull gets kept around and before you know it the owners has talked himself into breeding him in hopes of getting better pups because its a lot more cost efficient than buying and raising another high dollar pup just to find out it could be a cull too.    The point I'm trying to make is that the high dollar puppy prices in any breed has an indirect influence on the culling practices of the buyers and thus has an indirect influence on the quality of the breed or line of dogs.

I have culled my fair share of these high dollars suckers and it sux but I want my dogs in the future to be what I want and I just feel that in the near future I will be able to make my own breeding and have 100% confidence in the breedings will produce a decent percentage of pups that will suit me.   Another thing I feel very strongly about is my reputation and what I put my name on.    I made a breeding a couple years ago (only breeding I have made before this year)  and gave one pup to a friend and traded the other two females to a young man that I though was a good young and up and coming hog hunter but he turned out to be a clown and ended up trading them off with my name on their papers.  Now there were only three pups and the male I gave to a friend was a nice dog that I didn't mind putting my name on but I had no ideal what these two females turned out to be so when I found out one had been culled and I had an opportunity to buy the other back I did.   I only owned the last female for a couple weeks and when my wife said " that was silly, buy a dog and cull it within two weeks" I just grinned and the truth is now I know full well that there are no dogs with my name on them that would embarrass me.    And that is invaluable to me.  I learned a lesson with that experience and now I will never sell a puppy to anyone but will place (for free) any extras with good hard hunters that I KNOW will cull it in a blink of an eye of its not to my standard.    

So long story short:  Fair Puppy price to me is about one 22 bullet.   Sell them if you want but remember you name is on them forever and there is NO WAY they will ALL make you proud.

Well that post definitely took some writing Oconee. Can tell from the depth what the subject means to you.

Must say.......I like your profit margins brotha!  ;)

In the end. When haggling about expenses vs buying costs.

There will always be a car salesman line in the mix.
The salesman didn't make it
The salesman didn't paint it
The salesman didn't wash it
The salesman just got out of his chair and opened the door for ya.

But you can believe you as the buyer will be paying him for all the above.

I have personally seen several good lines of plotts diluted well below the point of mediocre buy breeding less than adequate females and males for the selling of puppies.   

I didnt mean to start so much of a disagreement here. But i like to see everybodys opinions on these subjects. Thats why i asked. I to agree that the price of the pups is whats fair to the buyer. If a man dont like the price of the pup he absolutely does not have to pay it. Whether its 10$ or $10,000. Now on the other hand i think anywhere from free to 2 or $250 is a fair price on a pup. I am actually about to drive an hour and a half and pay 250 for a 10 week old pup right now. Now heres the other thing. I am not a "die hard" hog hunter like some of yall are. I am fairly new to it. Dont get me wrong now i absolutely love it and enjoy every second in the woods. But i dont have many places to go. On top of that i dont have many hogs in the area where i live and have permission for land. So whats a good dog to me might not be a good dog to some. Its easier for some people to cull a dog than it is others. For example: if you hunt where you know for a fact theres pigs and fresh sighn and the 15 month old dog aint wanting to do nothin. Or the other dogs are getting bayed or taking to a track and the dog in question wants to wrestle with your boots as your walking in them. Or whatever other circumstances you feel like exercising your culling practices. Have to take into consideration that when your hunting in thick pigs its easier to figure out and cull or keep a dog than it is when your taking a dog to the woods where there might be a hog and there might not . Like i said before . I charged 250$ for a litter of pups and i think its fair. I dont consider myself a breeder or a fella thats just in it for the money. And god knows i could sure use it. I dont charge 250 to try and make a quick buck, recoup money from my female dog, get money back from the stud fee, Pay for my kennels, rip folks off, or any of the other reasons some folks haves said 250 is to much. I charge it because in my opinion its a fair price. And i didnt twist anybodys arm or hold a gun to there head and make them buy anything i have. I also try to excercise the "buy back" option. I guess what im trying to say is different strokes for differnt folks. If you dont like it dont get it. Then all of us 250 dollar dog sellers will have to give away or sell for 10$ a piece. That will solve the issue right there .        ;)

Good topic. Appreciate and respect all opinions on the subject.
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This topic is exactly why paying good $ for a proven finished dog is a solid investment in my opinion.

Nah bud this isn't an argument. Just a debate with strong points of views  from a mixture of good folks.

Getting back to the root question that you posted.

What is a fair puppy price?

If $250 is your mark...by goodness stand by it brotha. Sure beats a crawfisher that swings with the tide.

Believe the root issue that sparks a heated debate on this topic has always been the crossroads of two opposite ends of the spectrum in the dog world.

Dogmen ........and....... Men that keep dogs.
Nothing wrong with being either.  But the worlds always collide at some point sparking heated debates.

Perty clear on how much it costs to raise a healthy pup to selling or giving away age.

Now the extra ........just plain ole overhead anyway you slice it.

That money will always be the basis of conflicting points of views. No problem.
The luxury taxes that seem to be readily accepted these days is what I don't agree with.

As mentioned above ....if I ever feel the need to justify charging others for my dogs health, feed or handling costs that will occur whether I sell dogs or not.......time to start mass producing them on the open market as lap dogs or get out.

Or maybe we could start utilizing the vets as a dog broker. Seems they are the ones raising pups for folks and running the prices to high!  :laugh:

^^^^^ im a person that had dogs. Dogmen, however take years to become that. Can't be a dogman right out the box. Its a learning curve as in life. You pay more than you should untill.  My plumbing supplier is not home depot. ...but it was..

Lol....i sold some of my pups to "pet homes" that just wanted a dog to run around the farm. And some to hunters who wanted to give them a shot on hogs. The ones that went to farm homes will never be bred. And the ones that went to hunting homes will "turn out" or be culled. My dogs are decent. But by some folks standards probably not worth a crap. That is something else that will always differ from person to person. But my dogs have found hogs before. For the few hogs that we have i am dang proud of those few. Some days i can take my dogs to the woods and i wouldnt take a million dollars for em. And some days i dont even want to bring them back home. If i had a place to hunt where i could steadily put my dogs in good sign i know for a fact that they would be much better dogs. But i dont. There for i may not be a "dog man". Just a person that owns a few pot lickers. But thats alright with me . I Enjoy doing the little bit that we do.  But on the other hand i have been thinking about making a cross with my catahoula and my wifes cocker spaniel and calling it a cockahoula. Im real excited about this cross. Should makes some jam up house dogs. After i get them weaned and jack up the price a couple hundred dollars for the time it takes me to walk out there and feed them and take pictures for craigslist i should have enough money to replace the ball joints in my truck and get a case of cold miller lites . Man i am chomping at the bit waiting on this joker to come in heat !!!        :o

I believe that on average there are many hog hunters that use dogs and then there are a few dog men that hunt hogs with dogs...big difference in both...

just like folks that get into showing dogs, a few stay for the long haul but most only last on average of five years...

My observation is that quite a few folks who get into hunting with dogs tend to take breeding of dogs lightly...and quite a few believe they have dogs that are good enough for breeding when in fact they are not...I reckon some of this reasoning has to do with in-experience...that is why I say take the dog to the woods by itself and see if it will find and bay hogs...then stick until the hog is caught or stick for a reasonable amount of time...take into consideration the hunting experience of the dog, conditioning etc...etc...then look at the parents and grandparents...if you like what the research tells you then you not only have a dog that hunts but one that is breed worthy as well...that type of analysis applies to all working dogs including catch dogs...

at one time I bred Dobermans and then Airedales for hunting and did quite a bit of reading and talking to folks...I threw in the towel on the Airedales for hog dogs and as well for a few other stock breeds...but in the meantime I gained quite a bit of experience and a plan came together for me...I tried a few mt curs that didn't work for one reason or other and then I found the right ones...I was fairly young at the time but I was very hard nosed about the program...many hours of observations and testing here and there and I was producing a very high percentage of dogs I liked...my back yard was full of what I liked...but it cost quite of bit of labor, time, and money over the years...planning a breeding from a pair of dogs took hours of thinking, analyzing and picking apart all the reasons why or why not to breed those dogs...turning over the line to purify the gene pool costs money and lots of time...running the dogs to identify heart in each dog...swimming them to see who took to water and who were the powerful swimmers etc...etc...who had the best winding nose, trailing nose...who were the best locaters...who rolled out naturally...it was a labor of love...and so much fun...I was looking for NATURAL ABILITY FOR A BETTER HUNTING DOGS...BUT MORE IMPORTANCE ON DOGS THAT REPRODUCED MORE OF THE SAME... NATURAL ABILTY...THE CREAM RISES TO THE TOP...

crossbreeding and outbreeding usually is a setback in a good line of dogs...but sometimes it is necessary...but to do it on a regular basis does not make a good breeding program if we are serious about producing a good line of dogs...

it seems I got off the subject but I really didn't...I said all that because of what I am fixing to say...

Doing all of the above and have 5 or six generations of a well thought out breeding program and you give away a few pups here and there...and then you see how the pup is treated...like it was a mongrel that was bred luck of the draw...no appreciation for the breeding or even the hunt in that pup...but those folks are what dominate the dog scene...

good dogmen know a good dog when they see one...and they appreciate it even more when the breeding behind the pup is also great...

I have had dogs that I know I could turn out with anyone's dog and not look bad...but I have had one once in a lifetime dog and he was not for sale...that dog gave me more pleasure than money in my pocket could give me...five thousand dollars would be gone and I wouldn't even remember how it was spent so my dog was worth more to me back then than that...now if my son needed that money to complete college I would have done it for a reason of that magnitude...

so how do we put a value on pups from that type of program??? If I sold a pup for what I thought it was worth...most couldn't of afforded one...
I reckon recouping some of the money for feed, worming and a vaccine is understandable...

Would I breed a line like this again? No...because I am at the age when I have to prepare for the not so golden years...but I sure like getting in the middle of these discussions...back as a youngster there were no internet forums so I spent a lot of money buying magazines and books to read all about dogs because that is what dog folks do...but these forums are free and many people get to enjoy the dog topics without having to spend a lot of money to do so...



 

Well said sir. And a very understandable opinion. And so are the rest of these one here.

Extremely well said there Reuben....

All pups do not make dogs and all dogs ain't good and very few are awesome regardless of how there bred or there breed or who they came from.

JP...quite a few folks think like you on that subject...I believe the same as you due to average breeding practices...but when done right I will have to disagree...

Ya I hear ya Ruben I think even with the best program above your own best average is rare. But that could be some one else's super star dog most of the best things in life are not overly planned they just happen. This is way off the puppy price lol I still say a good fair price is 3 to 500 I have had no problems with that but I don't breed much ether

JP...I will pay 300 for a well bred APBT pup out of the right dogs...

The ideal that "most the best things in life are not overly planned they just happen" is great philosophy for breeding.  LOL   

Lol oconee that's a terrible breeding plan. But you know as well as I do the harder you try sometimes the further away you actually get from your goal slower is faster. If we took some of these breeding programs any put them in to financial terms we would all be rich lol                                                                    Ruben I am working with sandbank slayer aka Mitch on breeding my tex cd he is a berry above average dog in and out of the game. I believe in putting up or shutting up when I get these pups I am going to hand a few out of my share of the litter I would value  these at 300 all day long on ability of my dog alone. This breeding will be with in the same family of dogs I go by what I see not what I read what I am saying is your welcome to a pup if you would like

I don't think a man should buy a pup to breed. I think first priority should be buy a dog to hunt. Cull accordingly. In the end if the now dog has shown itself worth breeding then and only then should breeding enter the equation.


Shotgun
Arkansas

thanks JP...I have seen your male on here...he is a very nice looking dog...does she catch as well as your male?

No house pet but is out of the same line I would expect nothing different out of her if she was put in the game. From talking to Mitch he has told me that they have been very constant on all levels I would put my last dollar on it.

Classy piece of advice!

if I have a choice between buying a well bred pup from many generations of good dogs that is equal to the scatter bred pup I will have to go with the well bred pup for 2 reasons...

1. I have a better chance of having a hunting dog that has the potential to reproduce itself if need be...and even if the scatter bred pup turns into an above average hog dog...what percentages of hunting dogs per litter can be expected from this dog to reproduce?

the first dog gives you flexibility while the other only brings hunt to the equation...I have already contemplated that scenario many years ago...when we are limited to how many dogs to keep we want to strive towards getting both options in every dog in the kennels...