EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I currently have three dogs that will find hogs, they are 1.5-2yrs old.  They find pigs almost each time we go out there, but lately we have been getting outran by the big boars. These dogs are loose baying and aren't rough until CD's get there. How can i quit getting outran? The woods we are hunting in is VERY THICK! One of these dogs WILL put teeth into a hog to get him to stop, but these bigger hogs are just running like track stars. I have considered buying a more experienced dog to finish out these dogs but don't wanna buy junk! I wanna find something worth it.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated, happy hunting!

Your on the right track. A more experienced dog MAY help them...but it may not. Your dogs...with time...may or may not "stay" till the end on EVERY hog....most times...with experience, the dogs bottom will extend. It's more in how the dogs are bred than anything else (IMO).

Keep hammering them down they will pick it up or they won't some times a better dog will handy cap them. To true be good at something you have to get beat and learn from it dogs ain't no different IMO. Some dogs have that extra drive some don't

How long are they staying in the race? Are they quitting or are they loseing off.


Shotgun
Arkansas

they are staying 1000 yds +
but are getting tricked in the thick hog tunnels we have in this neck of the woods.

 getting a little rougher pack that will nut a big hog may help. u get 2-4 nut grabbers, and most of the time they will keep the hog sat down or string his u know whats out. 

If it's really that thick no big dog is gonna stay with one. They just can't maintain the speed in the thick. 1000+ yards isn't that far really. If the hog is loseing them which he shouldn't be unless there is lots of water or he is busting sounders which should send the dogs on other pigs I say u need a dog that has more bottom to keep them going. If my dogs stopped or lost after 1000+ yards I would never catch one. Most of the hogs I catch cover .75 to 1 mile if not stopped in the first few hundred. A race of 2miles or better is common. If the dog won't stay he won't bay.


Shotgun
Arkansas

At a year and half to 2 years on my yard those dogs would barely be getting going. I think u need an older dog that knows if it stays with it will see what left that track. That older dog will help those young dogs realize this as well. I'm not saying by an means ur dogs are not good. I'm saying they need more experience and someone to show them. I  just want that to be clear.


Shotgun
Arkansas

If you have a tracking collar on them, don't get mad just yet, when they quit and come back, be irritated, don't address them at all, go straight to where they quit and start looking for the hog. They should rededicate themselves to that track and go find him. Keep after it.

Anyone selling anything that will help my pack?
Better yet any year old pups with good working parents, I need to add some bottom to my pack!
I'm located in DEEP south tx.


Sonny

If it's really that thick no big dog is gonna stay with one. They just can't maintain the speed in the thick. 1000+ yards isn't that far really. If the hog is loseing them which he shouldn't be unless there is lots of water or he is busting sounders which should send the dogs on other pigs I say u need a dog that has more bottom to keep them going. If my dogs stopped or lost after 1000+ yards I would never catch one. Most of the hogs I catch cover .75 to 1 mile if not stopped in the first few hundred. A race of 2miles or better is common. If the dog won't stay he won't bay.

X 2 on what Shotgun said.

Be honest with yourself. These dogs have been on enough hogs & they are not losing them in the thickets. They are quitting when the going gets tough. A couple of things you can try. Put one or two dogs out at a time. A lot of times to many dogs out just break bays where hogs have been hunted a lot. Big boars did not get big whih out learning to run. Like said above, a older dog with a lot of stick will get you bayed a lot more. One other thing, I don't care how good a dog you have, you will get outrun sometimes.

I have been in your shoes and this is what I have learned. If you go get a dog that has the right stuff great you will up your game but most of the time the dog with the bigger bottom will slowly pull of from the others creating the same issue only the other dog will be out there bayed. Then your dogs will become me to dogs or just hang around till the other dog becomes bayed. If you run two dogs one that's learning and one that can get it done the other might copy what the first is doing and go on and do it to many dogs together and this won't work.  If the dogs know what a bay is and just needing the confidence to finish it out I would suggest getting a good hound that is open and they may stay with em to see what around the corner then just here and there leave the hound or big bottom dog at the house to see there improvement this has worked for me

Friendly word of caution- careful what u ask for regarding big bottom sticky dogs. They are impressive animals. They can also wear you out and have you trespassing quickly. I personally invested good $ in a couple of them. I'm lucky if I get to run them 15 times a year. You have to have time and a lot of dirt to run this type of dog.
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Good luck to you.

Going rougher instead of longer sounds like an alternative option for you. Real deal snappy gators might escalate the conflict quickly and shut down the race before it starts. You run the risk of getting your loose dogs cut up if you run them with rough dogs.

Rougher is my cup of tea a few rough dogs should get it done.  But you will still miss hogs you just won't have to go 3 hrs and 5 miles to do it but a good rough set with a big bottom dog works good for me if they fight I got something for them if they run I still have a chance

I don't drink the rough dog koolaid.  Running hogs are usually caused by nippy dogs with poor baying technique combined with little to no finesse.  I've never been witness to a dog that while running though a dense thicket could move fast enough to put a mouth on a hog that was running ahead.  In the woods, hogs are fast.  Believe what you want, but hogs stop when they decide to...and if you catch these kind it's because you have a dog with enough bottom to stay with the hog until it does so.

Unfortunately, I think bottom (as well as hunt) are two traits genetically inherited and not easily (if at all) taught.

Yes there are more flavors of cool aid than just one. And yes hogs stop when they want there ain't no perfect answer to catching hogs. I know most people will say other wise but if you are catching hogs then I guess it's working no reason to change your play calling until it don't work jmo

Great points guys. I prefer loose dogs with the bottom/stick and baying ability myself. In my experience, they are about as common as lock down cornerbacks in the NFL.
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Agree totally that rough dogs are a double edged sword. I don't particularly care to have to doctor them and have them laid up all the time.
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Agree that the hog decides when to stop. Good BAY dogs sure can help persuade them to do so.
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Good discussion fellas. I would certainly defer to the East Texas Thicket fellas opinion in that terrain .

Dogs are still a little young and I think you got them on the right track just keep taking them to the woods.  When your just getting started it takes a lot of trips for the dogs to figure it out.  Every dog is different and Im not one that says loose finese baying dogs are better than rough gritty dogs.  For me personally I dont care how it gets done as long as it gets done.  I actually prefer rough dogs.  I dont like to lead in catch dogs I like the hog to be caught once he stops.  Either way, whether it be a bay or rough dog the main thing is bottom and dogs not quitting and I personally think this just takes time and every dog matures at a different rate. 

    put a little hound in your life !!!!!!!!!   lol   

I am also scared too much bottom can be a bad thing. I have some places where we hunt close to neighbor's and other places where a dog can run miles.
I guess I can only keep trying! Maybe a loose dog that is rough enough to stop a hog is all I need!

I don't like rough dogs, I hate doctoring dogs. They work but I have seen some dogs get cut pretty good.
I forgot to mention , in my area they brought in pure breed Russian boars for " trophy " hunters to hunt with a rifle . They got outta hand and they are now everywhere.



Sonny

If anyone has any hound cross pups they are selling PM ME. I would love to MAKE a dog, it feels a lot better to make a dog!!!



Sonny

Not saying this is a lie by no means, but everyone who gets out ran says the exact same thing.  I think people would be really surprised at just how far and how long ANY hog will run if they get pressured enough. There's no doubt hogs have Russian influence, but I think pressure is more a factor then anything else.

^ i agree Ben.

Here is my 2 cents on the subject...... 1) your dogs are  still young, give em some more time to age/gain woods experience before you give up on em. 2) no matter what anyone says no one catches hogs every single time they go....thats why its called hunting, keep workin your youngsters.....pro athletes dont wake up one day and magically become pros, it takes tons time and dedication to be the best, those pups make suprise you with more experience under their belts. Good luck with em.

Thanks everyone. They both have impressed me on different occasions.
But getting outrun sucks. Lol I agree you win some and you loose some!


Sonny

You either gotta catch them where u find them or run them till they quit. No in between...

That's some good info.  Consider this:

There are probably a lot of experienced hunters on this thread that have some very good comments.  Their comments are based on years of experience and many different dogs.  As good as hunters as they are all and with all the good dogs, they cant seem to agree.

The reason they cant agree is because there is no one single answer to your question that will work everytime.  Rough may get it don't one day, long range, with a ton of bottom may get it done the next.

I would say, find the type of dog you want (ones that fit you) and hunt them as much as you can.  Lots of people talk about big hogs that run; I believe the 100 lb boar is the hardest running.  There you have it, another OPINION.

Most everything said on here is an OPINION.  Develop your own OPINION and test it out as much as you can and you will find YOUR own answer.

You may be right ^^ right around the 100-200 pound boar is the most Athletic in my opinion. However the bigger ones didn't get bigger from stopping. They got big for a reason lol


Sonny

You may be right ^^ right around the 100-200 pound boar is the most Athletic in my opinion. However the bigger ones didn't get bigger from stopping. They got big for a reason lol


Sonny

You are exactly right. I said it in another thread a few days ago, when it comes to catchin hogs theres more than one way to skin a cat.....rough dogs get it done, loose dogs get it done, long range dogs get it done same as short range dogs........the key is to find the dogs you like, stick with em and hunt their tails off.....nowdays it seems like everyone wants great dogs right now and not many want to put the time in (im not sayin this about you or anyone in this thread, just a general observation)

It is a fact in my eyes that you can take decent dogs and hunt em non stop and make a hell of a pack out of em......back when i got serious abt hunting me and my buddy had a mixture of mutts out of various huntin dogs from our area that were some hog huntin/catchin fools BUT we hunted them a minimum of 5 days a week for a LONG time.......now days we both have far better bred dogs and still catch hogs but between work and our families we dont hunt near as much and because of it we dont catch hogs as often as we used to when we were truely hunting the pads off our dogs feet......(growin up sucks haha)

I said all that to say this, 1) u can take an average/decent dog and work his tail off and more often than not he will make a hand if u pour the tracks to him......like i said earlier practice makes perfect 2) if you decide to buy a more experienced dog try to find one that will complement your existing dogs and build a pack that will work well together. Good luck!

Thanks you sir


Sonny

One of the advantages to having several people in a hunting party is the different style of dogs available, the way we hunt some places is once a runner is going we'll spread out and catch crossings and keep putting fresh dogs on him and picking the ones running up and dumping them at next crossing, found that this a good way to get them younger less experienced dogs sticking them tracks out bc if done right  the younger dogs will always be excited during a race, be with an older dog, and gives them a chance to rest and go again. I have to agree with everyone said just keep putting miles on them and if you buy an older dog make sure it compliments your other dogs well and their physiques match each other, a lineman can't keep up with a cornerback. Good luck.....

The biggest factor I have seen in running hogs is terrain & that is what determines if a hog stops or not. If you cannot break that hog out of that trot, you will never catch up to him. Fast dogs with a lot of bottom is what will make some hogs stop. A lot of hogs will run to the thickest area they know to stop & bay & some are just going to run. The only way to stop them is to keep the pressure on & like Goose said: relay them.
  A good example would be one of the places we hunt is the mixed marsh & swamp. Early in the year it is very thick & the dogs cannot open up & run. If you get on a runner you can for sure get out run. By middle of Dec. & later after a few frosts, those dogs can open up & there are very few hogs can outrun them over a few hours & they have to stop & bay. That is why I think dogs determine if a hog stops & bays. But  they have to catch up to them.
  We have hunted in several fox pens where hogs have gotten into them. Those hogs have been hunted by other hog hunters & run every night by fox dogs. At one pen we were about the fifth set of hog hunters to go in there to catch a big boar. The dogs caught him where they jumped him at but he cut the fire out of several dogs. Another fox pen we relayed dogs every time they crossed the power line. We started this big sow at about 7:00 am & finally broke her down & caught her around 4:30. It was so thick in there, the dogs faces, literaly looked like they had been skinned alive from the briars.
  The bottom line is there is no quick fix to running hogs. There are to many different scenarios but if you cannot break him down you will never make him bay. JMO

The areas I hog hunt will not allow me to relay so I get outran a bunch.  I can live with being out run but the dogs quitting won't work for me.   If the dogs in question are quitting I would probably "cut bait" pretty quick but if they are getting outran then they are just showing they are normal IMO!!   Now when I think about a dog getting outrun I'm like Cajun, I look at the terrain first.   Some terrain I think its nearly impossible to bay the real hard running hogs without relaying dogs but in more dog friendly terrain it comes down to track speed, and lots of it.   I have had a dog or two in my life that could run a hog like they were tied to him and wouldn't let the hog get out ahead too bad, which in turn lets the dog really make up the ground once the hog's initial burst of energy was used up.   IMO a hog out runs a dog in the first mile of the race in most cases.   If in the first mile the hog has a half a mile lead then the race is essentially over unless the hog just flat stops somewhere but if the dog is still within a couple hundred yds of the hog  and is still able to run him with his head up then the hog is usually a caught sucker.   You see the bigger the lead the hog gets in the beginning then tougher he is to run, which makes the lead just bigger and bigger and once the dog is so far behind he is trailing and no longer running, its over.   There is a TREMENDOUS difference in "trailing" and "RUNNING" a hog and once they get so far behind they are no longer "running" and have to start "trailing".  Its not uncommon for me to catch my dogs off a hog at a road crossing and when they come to the road they have their noses on the ground and although still moving at a good pace I know they aren't "RUNNING" him anymore and are basically "outran".   The moral to my little story is:  a dog has to "RUN" a hog to catch him, and if you have ever seen a dog that could really "RUN" a hog then you will understand completely but terrain has a tremendous effect on how even the best dogs can "run" a hog.   Don't give up on them if they are getting out run because they ALL get out run, just be careful that they aren't short changing you in the effort department.   

Good Luck

I agree with Oconee and Cajun...the same dogs in a preserve that is thick with vegetation and a good pack of dogs will get outran...the same hogs move over to the next ranch that runs cattle on it and the briars are minimal...the same dogs might catch 5 or 6 hogs in a short period of time...

but like already mentioned...one must evaluate all the conditions as to why the dogs got outran...sometimes it is the thick terrain, sometimes it is the heat and the dogs are out of condition...the dogs have already hunted hard and are running low on fuel...
I have seen a dog smart hog that when the dogs struck him the hog would make a quarter mile circle at a very fast pace and then he would cross the pipeline about a mile further down and he was way out in front of the dogs and he would be moving very fast...then after a little while the dogs would be crossing the pipeline way behind this hog...this hog would be running at a very fast pace...quite a bit faster than what the dogs were trailing...he is about a 175 pound hog and is very dog smart...

Yes sir, yes sir brother!  Thay sums it all up right there.   I been on both sides of the ball loosey goosey and ruffy tuffy.  On the loosey goosey type dogs everybody talks about getting the perfect baying dog not to loose not to ruff not to much pressure just right hold the hog O and big big bottom   , the perfect dog.  Well those dogs come around about once in a life time maybe two life times.   So good luck.   I like the ruffer type because of this i aint got Two life times to wait on the perfect baying dog.  I like bark once twice now its me are you.  Am gonna get ya Sure  die trying.  I can honestly say I have caught way way more hogs with these type dogs way more.  All the ten mile races stop all the BS stops. Sure I sew up dogs and even lost a few over the years with these types.  Yhe biggest mistake I ever made was knock some grit out of my dogs big big mistake that am just now getting fixed after three years of rebreeding!  Just me.

I don't have dogs anymore but my experience is get an almost rcd or quit hunting lol. I never could quit getting out ran a couple years ago. They either got caught or got away

Yes sir, its all good.  I know exexcatly where u are coming from.  Many many yrs I spent breeding and connecting the dna dots living and breathing for the perfect bulldog.  Loved It myself.  Its a great thing.  Threw all these yrs of this I learned first the greatest dogs do not come from the breedings u expected them to come threw but just the opposite!  When least expected the great ones come and threw much much surprise it was not from all my great great tight tight 50 times this are that but it was from great crosses of my bloodline into other great bloodlines.  I been in your shoes where u are at now wore them till the soles fell off and put another pair on and wore them out.  Lived, sleeped, breathed , ate and chit bulldogs and breedings 24/7.  Just remember the greatest ones will,come from the least expected breeding!  Good luck.

One other approach has been working for us lately. I have a 45 lb light mouth well started dog. When I run him alone or with one more similar dog, hogs seem to bay up more often. It is my opinion that hogs do not fear/respect him so they don't run from him. He has medium range and bottom. Pretty nice little dog to hunt overall.
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Maybe smaller dogs work in the brush?
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To everyone else's point, nothing works everytime. We still struggle to get catch dogs into him sometimes. We try to get within 50 yards. We then cut a small bulldog to him with 1 or 2 RCD dogs 20 yards behind that. It works sometimes. Sometimes it don't!
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Happy huntin!

As Cajun mentioned above its a big help if you know the terrain and the strengths and weaknesses of your individual dogs. If you've been after a certain hog for a while, try your best to learn his pattern or where it heads for when the heat is put on him. I agree with Oconee as well if a hog gets to far ahead it's peeing in the wind unless you got something that has the nose and bottom to stick it out. As Cajun also mentioned there are a few fox pens around and every once in a while someone will get the wild idea to put a hog in it or they get in there under the fence, once them suckers have been in there a month or two your not going to take individual dogs in there and catch him, you better have a fresh pack. I was after a good boar in one for a while and kept getting outran, so I played him at his game and got a fox hunter who wasn't scared to get his dogs hurt to put on him at dusk one evening and ran him until about an hr before daylight, we got there about 45 min after, enough time to let him lay up and get stove up, we put some cur dogs on him and had about a 2 hr race and finally it was like he was tired if running and all at once spun to fight and as they say the rest is history.

66 I have a friend that has a lil black dog weighs about 25 to 35 pounds. Dog ain't knee high. Lil sucker is fast tho for short runs mile or less. This lil dog in a bad thicket can and will roll thru the hog tunnels. If it is close to a hog the hogs just open the hole and she slips on thru. That lil dog has bayed a lot of hogs in thick stuff but once the hog stops to look back she is looking at him.


Shotgun
Arkansas

Yes sir WG. Them little brush beaters are neat dogs in the right terrain/circumstances!
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 I keep waiting for his lack of leg and lung to hurt him in open country. He seems to hold up pretty well so far.

I like all size of dogs in my pack I got them from 38 lb to 85 lb a diverse pack that is well rounded will produce time and time again that is what makes a good pack you always need more than one kind of tool

Dogs put it on a boar hog this past weekend! They stuck with him through some nasty stuff! We couldn't get the cd's there fast enough , but let me tell you all we will have him down very soon!
I had to quit hunting yesterday due to a family emergency.


Sonny

Awesome information guys !!!!

Cajun,
Your last post was the story of southern Ohio.  Thats what got me running Plotts.  Needed dogs with no quit but they had to give a boar no option but to stop and bay up. We still get outran but I have a great feeling after picking up the hounds after a 12 mile race as to them quitting after  700 yards. However I hunt huge tracks of govt land and most landowners where we hunt let you get your dogs with no problem. Dont know what its like to hunt LA or TX but would like to some day.