EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

A hog dog is by definition a dog that finds hogs bays or catches the hog. Any thing less or more is a opinion of that individual who feeds it. We can go on and on bout likes and dislike but the bottom line is if you catch more than you miss runner fighters dog killer not sows and shoats then you probly have a idea of what works for you. I like rough dogs that stop or bay at first chance if not I got a few with decent bottom that will go the distance if need be. But a decent dog should bay up the hog rather quickly in my opinion rather then chase it around barking for hrs if he wants to stay at my place once again this is preference. If the hog breaks I expect the dog to give it hell to stop the hog and this is easy to notice on dogs that do this cuz there teeth will be chipped broke of and suck. Now the dog should be able to bay a hog on its own and locate the hog. Range ain't as important to me cuz I mostly walk creek bottoms and thickest so 400 yd can be like a mile. I like a dog with heart if it gets cut it shouldn't run and hide. I want a dog that is bout 50 lbs. color don't matter my biggest pet peeve is a open slow dog if it behind the curs has to go but open doesn't bother me if the dog can lead and hold a good speed and that's kinda what I like in a dog


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A hog dog IMO opinion needs to be well rounded in all aspects of striking, trailing, jumping, and baying hogs.    I do not prefer them to catch alone but small hogs is acceptable.   In being "well rounded" I mean able to preform all at high levels.   I've personally owned top strike dogs that couldn't move a track and fast dogs that wouldn't finish enough races and many other combinations of positives and diffiencies, they need to do it ALL to earn the name HOG DOG.   I don't currently own a true hog dog IMO but I still catch hogs every trip so production alone by no means defines my dogs to me.

When a true hog dog is turned loose he should preform consistently with or with out company.    I don't personally like my dogs hunting deep until I get into sign but how they find hogs when turned loose Is truly of no consequence to me.  They need to be good rig dogs on the truck because thats how I hunt mostly and is most valuable to me.   I mean good rig dogs too, not just bark if the hog just crossed and is standing in the ditch, but thats another topic.   Once on a hog they must move the track adequately and I have no ideal how fast is fast or what but if they finish a good precentage of races and stay in the lead in their early development I just assume they're fast enough.   When running most.my dogs are open with chop mouths and it is VITAL that when they make a lose and break down to find it they SHUT UP until the line the track back out.   The bottom of the dogs is important to me and although most hard running hogs will escape even the best track dogs, I still damand that they try hard.   I am smart enough to tell if a hog has them out ran and often times I catch them to procede to another in possible but the better not be quitting on there terms, I'll make them decisions.   Now if a hog dog gets bayed it should not be catchy or too loose because either of each will often times result in a busted bay.   If they dog is a good bay dog and the hog sits for him he should stay bayed alone for NO LESS than 5-10 hrs.   I have a couple right now that probably won't make the 5 hr mark alone but they're young and I never called them a hog dog.    I need my dogs to stay bayed until my fat butt gets to them eith catch dogs.

I have owned 3 hog dogs in my life and each three were a little different in the way they accomplished the task but all reading would agree they were HOG DOGS.

I've seen a dog that would cold trail...I mean get gone on the first track he came across. End up bayed up 3-4 miles away while we were catching hogs for the next couple hours that were within a mile of the truck. That same dog one hunt (this was before Garmin) dissapeared and was gone the rest on the night. My mentor had a radio telemetry system...that's the only dog that got a collar, anyhow...end of the night we couldn't pick him up. We all had to work the next morning so we left. Next day after work my mentor goes driving the roads with the antenna hangin out the window. 12 miles from the spot we turned out he finds his dog under a bridge laying down, barking every so often at a big ol sow. Was it the same track he started? Who knows. Was he a hog dog...oh yeah...IMO he was. Would I have him on my yard, hell no. I have no need for a dog like that.

Are Peels rough curs hog dogs? IMO...yeah, they are. Would I have one on my yard, no. But I may cross to one

Kevin your not gonna catch hogs for two hours around here within a mile of you truck.    We don't have hogs under every bush up here.   The hog bayed 3-4 miles away might be all you get that night.    I have no need for a go-yonder idiot either thats why I stated "I don't personally like my dogs hunting deep until I get them in sign."   

If I carry one of my curs to the woods to hunt hogs, it will be expected to wind, find, stop, and attempt to catch and hold, any hog, with the exception of shoats(pigs).  Mine are close range. I am only interested in hogs that are within 600 to 800 yards of where I am standing. If the dog gets beat bad, I want it back to me. I'm a good enough woodsman to get them close enough to work in any terrain ;) I will admit, these SE Tennessee mountains are rough country and make it extremely difficult most of the time., but I still manage to keep my freezer full of pork. Being from South/Central Florida, this has always been our exspectations of a hog dog. It's been my experience that no matter how good your dog or dogs are and no matter how fast you think you are getting to them, one bad hog can and will cause a bad wreck from time to time.

My personal definition of a Top Shelf Hog Dog is a dog that CONSISTENTLY finds and stops hogs. They possess a singular focus on FINDING and STOPPING hogs by whatever means necessary. If you lay eyes on a hog 7 out of 10 times that they start one, you have a Hog Dog. They must be straight on hogs. Pursuing Off Game of any kind eliminates them from being a HOG Dog in my eyes. You might have a super star young dog BUT if he trashes, he's not a Top Shelf Hog Dog yet!  They must be able and willing to do the job alone to be a Top Shelf Hog Dog. Any subject matter that is not directly related to how effective they are at FINDING and STOPPING Hogs is simply a matter of preference and opinion.
-
My personal definition of a Top Shelf Catch Dog is a dog that CONSISTENTLY CATCHES and HOLDS whatever game they are put on. If you CATCH 7 out of 10 hogs you release your catch dog on, you have a Top Shelf Catch Dog.  Any subject matter that is not directly related to how effective they are at CATCHING and HOLDING Hogs is simply a matter of preference and opinion.
-
I have seen 2 Top Shelf examples of Hog Dogs and 3 Top Shelf Catch Dogs in the 8 years I have been hog dogging. I have had the pleasure of being in the woods with a handful of top shelf STRIKE dogs, many good bay & catch help dogs, and many solid catch dogs. Not many dogs of this caliber out there. They are rare, unique, and special. They should be celebrated and appreciated if you have one! This is why most of us (myself included) are forced to assemble a pack of Specialists who work well together and play a particular role in getting hogs caught. 

what some of you already said...and I will add this...a complete hog dog is not a perfect dog in every type of hunting situations...but if he is  bred right and for at least three generations of line bred dogs that were all top of the line hog dogs...that can reproduce their kind when bred to dogs of the same family tree...then you have a well rounded hunting dog...

you can have a scatter bred dog that is top of the line but if he don't reproduce his value is not that high to me...good dogs are hard to find so breed your own line...

right now I am trying to set up that way...

Shotgun thats as close as anyone has ever gotten to my way of thinking on this issue and you nailed it IMO, right down to people assembling specialist out of the rarity of real hog dogs.

x2...

That's my definition as well, everything else is opinion and preference. If you can find'em and not stop them whether it be by baying or catching, or if you can stop'em but not find them then it aint a real hog dog in my personal opinion.

to keep it simple and at the same time minimize the opinion factor...take the one dog out to the woods by itself and you carry a 22 pistol...and if you feel excited that you will bring home the bacon then you probably have a good hog dog...  :)

Ruben I like that but I don't need a 22 my will just run in there and leg it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol my boy will just leg it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A hog dog consistently finds and stops any hog Quickly.

Yes sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never heard it put that way Reuben, thats good tho.   I bet several guys would be suprised if they took their best dog to the woods alone more often.   That ol'22 might not stay as busy as they think.

To me, an all around hog dog should to do it all.     Find and catch
   If running two dogs down and they find a sounder I would like for each dog to be holding it's own pig.    If only one pig is there, both dogs should be holding the hog.
   I prefer these dogs to hunt fairly close range  for a few reasons.   1, easy to stay in good grace's with the landowners when they like to go with you and your dogs aren't hunting over on his neighbor  if you get close to the property line.    2,  if the dog starts leaving out you know to head that way cause the dog ain't just casually hunting anymore.
  There are no long races.   The pig is caught in its bed if found bedded or caught before it realizes the threat.    In crops where the pigs can sometimes see the dogs bearing down on them, the dogs have their pigs caught before the pigs can exit the field.      The only sound ever made is the sound of pig grunts or squeels.   At night when hunting crops feilds, often times I will catch two pigs up front in the field with two dogs and do to the only sound ever made being by a grunting pigs and a little squeeling, the others are un aware of what's taking place and never leave the feild and just start eating again.   That results in two more pigs being caught.    Or if they do leave, often times they will be back shortly.     As the season goes on they will spook for the night after the first run but return nightly because the lucky pigs that were not caught, never really understand what is going on.   They don't ever get really spooked.         
   Another reason I prefer dogs that find and emmediatly catch is because the pigs are not allowed to bay up where they can use the landscape to their advantage.    It's often times easier to access the pigs to load once caught.    Finally the pigs often times do not fight as hard do in part by the manner they are caught and with just one dog holding it often it will just kinda walk around in a circle grunting untill flipped by me for tying or stabbed. 
     There is no cure for capturemyopathy once it sets in, only preventative measures.    If you like selling live pigs caught with dogs to a buying station then you try to minimize the stress put on that pig cause a dead hog brings no money for me.    I like to sell the big boars and the big boars are the worst about coming down with it.     
   Biggest reason i like and prefer the kinda pig dogs i do is just simply because it's the style that i personally enjoy most and i like, admire, and respect these kinds of dogs most.
   For me, that's an all around good pig dog.   One that finds and catches and does so while rarely ever getting hurt.

Black Streak...I like what you said...sounds like you are well educated to what you like in a dog as well as how you hunt...

You said...To me, an all around hog dog should to do it all.     Find and catch

That sounds great and really if you catch hogs each time you go out or almost every hog your dogs start then I will have to agree with you...

I do have a question for you...if you turn out in a 5000 acre ranch that does not have many hogs and is mostly wooded...will your dogs pick up an older track and work it until they find and catch a hog? do you have the confidence that a hog will be found? 5000 acres is a huge piece of land...

it seems to me there is no such thing as an all around hog dog on account of many different terrains and situations...

Believe me I did try to breed all around hog dogs and I was very happy with them but they didn't catch all the hogs we started due to several reasons...I thought about adding pitbull but couldn't bring my self to do it on account I didn't want to lose what I hand gained...also thought about super gritty coyote hound of the run to catch type just to add a little more track speed...I could take out 1 or 2 dogs and stop more hogs sooner than with 4 or 5...most places are thick places to hunt...just want your thoughts and if you don't mind if you would give more detail on what you believe is the all around hog dog...

to me an all around hog dog does not mean a dog that catches every hog he starts but one that can have an all around nose for winding, ranging and being able to take a decent track...have enough range to hunt out, have plenty of bottom if needed...I want all I mentioned but also to include what you said...that would be the all around hog dog...catching smart like you mentioned is part of being a good hog dog...but my experience is that sometimes these dogs get caught between a hog and another dog, a fallen log or in between a dry creek bank and the hog and so they can get wrecked...I now run vests on my dogs full time whether it is swimming in the river or 98 degrees with high humidity...

again...not knocking anything you said...just want to know if your dogs can do the other things I consider to be the all around hog dog...

Reuben it sounds like me and you are on the same page because I was wondering the same thing but I just can't figure out how to speak so polite.   I guess I'm just a little ovee the top with "to the point" so I'm glad you asked before I hurt anymore feelings.

If you care could please answer a question for our veiwing audience.   You mentioned turning loose in a 5000 acre ranch with thin numbers and I can relate because thats basically my senerio each time I hunt.   Although I rig and look for tracks to find a good hog to run, I do understand and I can only assume by the sense you make when you talk that you understand what kind of dog it takes to preform under them circumstances so having said this, do you think a dog that preforms well on a consistent basis in this scenario could also preform well in the senerios Black Streak?

Its basically the same question you asked him in reverse.   I think most folks with common dog sense will fully understand where I'm going with this.   

With all due respect Black Streak, if I get caught hunting tame hogs around here the hog farmer will prosecute me.   Just teaseing but I know a guy thats hunts an area just like you ddescribe and a large % of his yearly income is selling hogs.   He told me his hunting group will go out on a few wheelers and side bt sides until the bust a sounder then they chase them until the fat hogs start falling behind and they turn stags on them and catch them.   He has several big ranches and does this EVERY day after deer season ends and catches SEVERAL each day.   I can't blame a guy for adapting to make a good living and although VERY effective,  I still can't say them are "hog dogs"  JMO

    My finder holders hunt in my opinion like an average cur when it comes to scent trailing.     To me the scent trailing specialists are the hounds.    I appreciate the question but the answere would have to be a generalized no in regards to the cold track.      Scent hounds would be better suited for a cold track.       
    I am a hunter, bow and gun.   Love the bow!    I grew up on a 20,000 cattle ranch here in north central Texas.   My passion was hunting.    I loved to walk around and hunt as a very young kid.   I'd be gone with my bb gun for hours shooting birds in the pastures.   From there i got my spot and stalk style and hunted up pigs with a rifle.   Then I turned to a bow and really had fun walking and stalking them.  I never really thought about it back then but I didn't walk around randemly.   I learned my prey and where they liked to be and why.       The more familar I got with feral pigs the more successful I was at finding them and killing them.        I hunt with my dogs in the same manner I do with a bow in my hand.     I'm still hunting the pigs, and my dogs are my hunting buddies but the dogs are also my bow now.        My dogs hunt and don't rely on me to show them pigs but you kinds get where I'm going with my hunting style I hope.           Me and my dogs are a very good team and well paired with our hunting style.    We make one another's job very easy and effective.     They hunt like a cur so with the both of us hunting or the 3 of us, yes I feelcconfident I can catch pigs in the 5000 acres.   I personally would not expect to cover the entire 5000 acres before getting on pigs because I plan on approaching it a little smarter than just making tracks around the place.
       With the exception of my stag and my pit, my dogs are of a 15 or 16 year line of finder holders.   They ain't just random dogs that I've made work for me for what it's worth.    They are pretty skilled well bred pig dogs in their own right!

yes...I can see your style is being a great and fun way to hunt...

I grew up hunting with dogs...slingshot, bb gun, spear, then a 22...and of course deer rifles etc as I got older...I also learned the way of the wildlife by hunting dry conditions and very wet conditions...I could and would be soaking wet but I knew exactly where to go to find deer or any kind of game...We didn't have hogs back then where I grew up...My dogs ate what we caught...I learned to stalk and sneak and my dogs would operate off of my signals and a few little hisses here and there if I wanted their attention...if we were stalking and wanted to give a signal I hissed just loud enough to get their attention...I knew when they were running deer or jack rabbit...rabbit...or having a big snapping turtle or big snake bayed...or coon or feral cat treed...you run the dogs enough and you will learn quite a bit about dogs...when I stepped off in the brush alone with my dogs I became a predator...the pack leader...

I speared lots of rabbits the dogs didn't catch that made it to the rose hedges  before the dogs had a chance to catch them...
also shot many in the head with the slingshot...when I got a little older about 12 or so I started shooting them ahead of the dogs while on the run with the 22 auto...

one day I was at deer camp deep in South Texas and this ole boy about my age was telling how him and his 2 friends would leave all day into the woods and only take some salt, matches and a knife and come back late in the evening...he switched gears before my eyes as he was showing me how they stalked around...once I saw him I told him he didn't need to say no more...because I then knew what he was...

when I hunted alone with my dogs was not how I hunted when I had another person hunting with me...more because they would not understand...a kid can do way more with a dog than a man can...

a good pack of dogs can look great with the right handling...

 
   Yes i get exactly what you describe when hunting alone vs with someone.   I am very different when hunting alone and I like it that way but I also love sharing the outdoors with friends.   I've learned to just enjoy the outdoors with them and not get caught up in ruining the shared experience with my own particular way I go about things when by myself.
      I believe a lot of dogs will do better with some people than others.   My dogs might seem like rock stars to some when my dogs are with me but if they was someones else's dogs they might think they was pot lickers.
    Regardless of that, my opinion of an all around hog dog should be able to find pigs and catch them on a consistent basis without getting cut up much at all.
     My finder holders are can work as stags on crop feilds just as good or better than stags can, the can hunt the woods like curs, rig like curs off a buggy, you can use them as a lead in cd if you so choosed, they pretty much are just all around pig dogs.     A good cold trailing dry ground scent hunt is a specialty they can not by no means match, but hey can that cold trailing scent hound catch and hold the pigs he finds or is he a specialist all his own?

Black streak I like what you said good stuff. I would much rather have a dog like you stated then a cold tracking dog


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I was hunting a place with big fields and could go see hogs in it or just ride around and see hogs in roads and such id like me 2 or 3 dogs that don't bark and just catch and not run one all day cause it's some more in the next field over. But where I hunt and how I hunt I load 3 or 4 in my fourwhweler box and ride until i see something I like and depending on which dogs I have turn loose or not. If I have pups or I'm with someone and they want to turn loose on the first bit of sign we see it's fine with me but if I'm by myself or with certain buddy's we like to pass up on little hogs and try to find something a little better to run. I try to leave one dog in the box and sometimes I get carried away and put them all on the track but I try to leave one in the box to pack in later on if one falls out of the race or splits off etc. i like to watch the garmin as they trail it and work out the track then get it jumped and go to where they cross a road and look and see if it's the same track I turned on. And most of the time I really enjoy for them to run it awhile a couple hours is usually fine with me  I guess I like for them to have to work a little harder and I don't care about catching a pile of hogs when I go as long as I get on a good track and a good race I'm happy especially when I have some young dogs and they take the lead in the race or cast good. And I don't get in a hurry going to them bayed I try to take my time and usually it takes me a little while to get their anyway so I don't expect them to run 2 or 3 miles then come back they better keep on.
That's just how I like to hunt and what I like and expect in dogs and I'll lead in my bulldog if I can or cut him loose from the fourwhweler and drive in to him as quick as I can unless I hear some squealing. It's just like anything else you have to adapt to what you got and where you hunt

JP...I would like that as well...but I want dogs that will ride and turn them in to catch...but then I would like to add everything else I like to the same dog...no cold cold trailing but being able to find game quickly and shut it down in a short amount of time...if not then run him for as long as it takes to stop him...and hopefully catch him in less than 1 hour...but the concern is if the dogs are that catchy and it takes me an hour to get to them...I will have overheated dogs or worse...unless they are smart about catching...but my first love is dogs that hunt, trail and wind...and make it look easy finding hogs...and catching hogs is the icing on the cake...

Speed off the track or wind is the main thing with enough grit to turn the hog. If not your just following the hog until it decides to stop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have seen this in a few of my dogs in the past...

Bo Pugh you and hunt just alike!     I understand your thought process completely!