EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

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I don't know about this one Black Streak.   Ha ha ha


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that is an awesome looking dog...you should keep enough bred so you wont lose the line you are creating...

Lol I got a good laugh with you slipping that last pic in there!

     The dog in the 3 pictures that is actually mine lol is 11 or 12 months old in the pictures of her by herself.    The two pictures were taken the same day with the intent of showing off here structure specifically.     She is dry in the first picture but you can't really tell what's under that coat of hair untill she is wet.   Hence the picture of her wet.   That's a good picture of her structure and how she is truly built.      The third picture is her at 10 months old holding a nice sow with my stag on the other side.       They both caught their own pigs in that hunt, I just got to her first and dispatched her pig and just relayed her onto him.     You can get a decent sense of her size in that picture also.     She was around 80 pounds in those pictures.   She still looks the same so no need in any updated pictures of her lol.    She is the gyp that's gonna be bred to the grandson of RIP.
     She is typical of the look of her line of finder holders.      Some throw a touch more to the mastiff look and some resemble a bit more of a deerhound, but this look is the norm.        She is wolfhound, deerhound,  boerboel (african mastiff) with a splash of dane and boxer in her background as well.     Always had to be carefull with her because of her drive to hunt when she was a puppy and she was straight up catch so i could not let this one wonder around and play in the pastures or she would have gotten herself killed.

I like it

Pretty impressive looking dog

What the little one at the bottom lol.         Just kidding, thanks.

That lapua? If so she is looking great

I like the way she's built. I see where you get your name from, I bet she shoots past like a black streak of lightning.

 Lapua is a Fine looking dog I really like how she is holding the sow in the pic she is up against the shoulder completely out of harms way extremely tall and long perfect for handling big hogs.

Yes that Lapua

Lol  that's really not where that name come from but it does fall very well into place.   

She is a good one, and built right. She is so young that she should only get better.

Yeah by the time she is 2, she will be a beast

Yes she will be, and hopefully she can produce some more for you. We need ten more just like her so you can send one out here!  ;D  But on a serious note I am excited to see how everything turns out with your program my friend.

Thanks Michael

I've had the entire "finder holder" principle all wrong from the other posts.  I thought you were saying you would like to findher holder

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yeah, you were totally missing it for sure.   

Black Steak I can't get on board with the "souped up RCD" your bragging about but here's your chance to impress me.   If you can "hold her" your the man in my books.   Hoghunter already "found her" for you.   Ha ha ha

Y'all cold blooded lol


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That's just wrong, you can't unsee that!

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It's a video. Need to click on the picture. Hope it works.

That is what I was thinking.  :o


Hey buddy that is a good looking dog right there. Is it a bird bull or one of those campbell curs, or is it something else. Just curious how its bred. Way to get it done regardless though.

well I like the red cut vest....

https://youtu.be/IIq-lRVkFdk



ABOUT 350LB.      ONE DOG! !!!    I had already caught another hog and this dog had been split and bayed alone for 3 hrs.      No dog alive is holdin a hog like that by the ear for 3+ hrs.    Thats my "finder holder"

yall got some cool videos.

Oconee you right bout that one dog can latch on and hold that hog but alone time is not on his side. If the dog takes hard damage he might last 5 or ten min till he bleeds out so you going to have to be there fast. If no damage he might hold for 20 min or so at that point in my experience with bigger hogs that ear is coming off. What your dog is doing is what I want a single dog to do by him self after a long run and time.


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yep...that is some good dog work right there...just keeping the hog entertained until the catch dog gets there or lead poisoning sets in...

Seen Lapua's dad find catch and hold a 446# boar all by himslef about 5 weeks ago.   Held it like a champ.    He wasn't gased or wasn't even really having a hard time holding it.   The dog was doing so well I even took a moment to take a few pictures before letting the air out of the big beast.      Oconee i have the pictures to prove this if you would like to post them lol.     I dont have a pic of the weight but before the boar was dropped off at the taxidermist, he was weighed and the weight was reported back to me.    I do have a good picture of me with the dead boar which shows a little of his size.   
   Not many dogs bred for this kinda work could fair so well one out on such a pig.      There was not a scratch on the dog afterwards.
    Their was actually 3 dogs on the ground hunting at the time the boar was caught.   One was a semi experienced dog but not of this line, another was the pup of the dog that caught the pig.     Neither of the other two dogs ever knew the boar was caught and being held by the one dog because their was total silence except for 1 tree branch that I heard snap .     Wasn't till I had my hands on the pig and in control of it, did the other dogs show up to the party.   
   This is a good example as to why I want 1 out finder holder dogs.    Not because I run one out but because the dogs often catch their own.     A dog  bred well for this kind of work will surprise you in many ways if you have never seen one in action.   A good holding dog makes it look easy and effortless do in part because their build, their power, their brain (thought process), and their athletsism. 

The dog in pic is 1/4 Campbell. The rest is bull blood.
The vest came from Australia.

Lotta folks think a big dog can't move in the thickets. One dig can't hold a big hog by themselves etc.
Its much easier to keep up with one or 2 dogs than a pack. Walking a pit thru a thicket sucks.
I can hunt big and small properties with my dogs.

Send them.pics if you want Bkack Streak

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That boar turned out to be 446#s.      He was found, caught, and held 1 out.       Dog is the sire to my gyp that's pictured in the start of this thread but he is not my dog.    I was just visiting my friend and he took me out for a short hunt where we caught two boars.   This being the biggest of the hunt.    That's me with the boar in the photo and the other photo is just a good pic of the hardware he was equipped with.     The dog was handling this boar very very well when i showed up to the catch so i took a few pictures before sticking him.        He was extremely thick and fat.   Thought i had just put my hands on my first barr but he indeed was sporting a pair of nuts.
   No sound was ever made by the boar or the dog and the other two dogs were unaware of the catch and we're still hunting the thick dense cover.      This boar was probably lying in his bed or feeding at the edge of the dense cover when the dog found him.   

By the way, thanks for posting the pics Oconee.

No problem Black Streak.   By the way, how long have you been hunting these dogs and how many do you currently have?

I started hunting like this a little over a year ago.  I was bay dog and lead in before that.      I have 3 finder holders, 1 stag, 1 pit and 1 wolfhound deerhound type bitch that never  hunted worth a flip but does very well hunting the stag style.       I have 6 grown dogs

Black streak. I will be working in Austinino. For 2 or 3 days. A lot closer to you than I'm now. Would like  check out this style of hunting. .

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Sorry Louie, I just went back to Alaska for my two week hitch.     Got back up here yesterday evening.

What is the dogs temperment outside of a hunt ?

Can't really fault these dogs to much outside the hunt.    If you treat them well, they are very loving and affectionate and would very likely make good kid dogs and house dogs.   (They have a lot of deerhound in them and deerhounds are known as the gentlmen of the dog world)     They are confident dogs but if you try to make them respect you by fearing you, then they likely will avoid you.     Whatever you put into these dogs is  normally what you get out of them.       Very adaptable.

Black streak  pretty sure your full of yourself on your finder/holders.

What makes you pretty sure, have you seen his dogs hunt???

Heck of a first post Clown!

Easy to ride around and see a hog in wheat field off highway and catch them

Clown Hater folks don't like the "truth" around this site.   Its all fairytale land where good dogs don't have to preform "dog work" and its common practice to quit running hogs and not be able to trail a peice of bacon across the road.

By the way, welcome to the site.   I enjoy folks telling it like it is! :laugh:

clown hater, i know what you mean sometimes you got to call it like you see it. lol

I'll call it like I see it too. Sounds like  3 ignorant morons who have never met streak or seen his dogs hunt and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about when it comes to his dogs.

I'm trying to breed "finder/holders" too. I don't see a point in running a hog 5 miles when I can catch him right away. My buddy and I have caught done nice hogs without a bulldog.

Yes it is.    It is also easy to take that same dog or two and go to the woods and catch pigs too.    Kinda why the Aussie guys refer to them as finder holders.    They find and catch their own pigs.    By smell or sight.  
    Just because I have access to wheat, does that make my dogs terrible or multi purpose?      They can work the fields same as stags, work the woods same as curs, and catch same as bull dog.      Why does that make my dogs so horrible?

That's a heck of a way to start things off and meet new like minded people Clown.What happened to a polite respectful introduction of yourself. Did your mommy and daddy not teach you any manners?

Cracker, he's obviously a trolling clown. Duh!

Cracker, Sammy, look at the first name in his screen name, that should say all that needs to be said. Differnt dogs for differnt terrain for differnt styles of hunting. I would much rather make it a short and fast catch to move on to another hog than a long drawn out race for a single hog. Iv hunted both ways don't mind either style, but if I had to choose only 1 way, I'd much rather have a short and fast catch

Oconee, where is this hog dogging rule book?    Where are you getting that to be a good hog dog a dog must put it's nose to the ground like a scent hound and cold trail a pig to a certain distance before jumping it?   Why must a dog have to run with a hog for so long for it to be considered a good dog.     Why must these dogs have to wait on a different dog to come and catch the hog they found for them to be considered good dogs.     Why do we all have to have dogs like your for them to be worthy hog dogs.       I don't get this mentality of yours.    I get the style of hunting and think it very fun and exciting but i don't see how one of your dogs are better than one of mine.    You get your feelings hurt because you like to pretend your dogs are better than everyone else's dogs because of how many you say you have culled.      
   And speaking of fairytales, it was your fairytale you told about you having HOG DOGS while the rest of use just had hog dogs that set up and shed light on this fantasy world you live in where your dogs are better than everyone else's.      
  

Yes sir I have the manners. Not so much Bashing the finder/holder style dogs. Just the man who claims that the only way to go. Black streak. There's men on here that have caught more hogs while he's typing on this site than he's been on

I'm in on the short fast catch. the using night vision sneakin up down wind and claiming to have the best thing ever hit the dog world is something different. Fun yes. Maybe not so much to be bragging about

The best thing to his this site is the reply button lol. Just a page back everyone was best friends now back to truth bearing gods of the hog dog world. I like dogs that find catch run bay trial up hogs any one of the styles will work I try to put all of that in my dog box. I don't get the point of all this classification of each kind of dog ether it works or it don't bottom line. I have as much respect for a dog that can find and catch a hog in short work just as I can for one that runs the hooves off one no difference to me if they both do it on a high percentage. 


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Judge peel your right.  Couldn't agree more

Clown I have never ever not once claimed that finder holders where the only way to go nor have I ever made any such claim that my way of hunting or my dogs are better than anyone else's on here  other than the ones that make claims like Oconee and Bo Pough do.     Maybe it would behoove you to go back and read some of their older post.      I know you haven't done so because your stats say you've only spent 36 minutes on this forum as per your second post on this thread.     Not that most of the men and women of this forum need or care for someone to speak up but it was just aggrivating to read posts where people are claiming to have better dogs than the rest of us.        If you would go back and look, you would see where I point out to these guys that the dogs their claiming are HOG DOGS or are the best dogs of any body on here can't do but half of the job many other people dogs can do on here by the dogs self without help from another dog.       Never have I made these arguments strictly about my dogs, but since my dogs can do this as many other people's dogs on here, I have lumped them in also as it's convenient for example sake.        I didn't even create this thread called finder holders.        
    My opinion of my own dogs is they suite me and I like them and I think they do a very good job for me.       I don't tell people that if you want to stop runners then these dogs are for you.   I dont try to convince people that these dogs are for them or they are and end all or a cure for their problems.     Matter of fact when people contact me about my dogs and want one, I have spoke to them at length about the pros and cons of these kinda dogs and have told many people that these kinda dogs would probably not suit them and they would be better served getting different dogs.
    Point I'm trying to make Clown is I you have miss enterprited me and miss judged me in your haste.
I am as much for the modesty and humility as most anybody on here.     You know i dont even know how many pigs my dogs have caught this year or the year before that.   I can tell you how many pigs I got last couple times out because I remember the details of the hunts but after that the hunts start running together unless something made them special.    I dont get hung up on how many pigs we catch,  i just do it because of my love for my dogs and because i get enjoyment out of it.  
   I hope you find this enlightening and you have a better understanding of where I'm coming from.   If not oh well, I give you an honest try.

Black Streak I haven't addressed you directly but you responded to my only two comments this week by addressing me.   Huh, can't  figure out what your problem in with me.  

I welcome you to find and quote anywhere on this site I claimed my dogs were better than anyone else's.    Now I have made several statements about what I will not tolerate out of my dogs and several comments about how your dogs won't work in other areas of the world (namely my country).

The problem I have had from the beginning is that most everyone on this site has owned or currently owns a running catch dog and you claim the hairy ones you own are superior to them all.   There is a time and place for running catch dogs and in fact I'd like to have one around on occasion but I can assure you even the guys that love them are man enough to admit they aren't always the best.

Another thing that cracks me up is how some guy has blown smoke up you butt and got you to believing these mutts (which are nothing more than a plain ol' running catch dog that everyone already has if they want) are in some way the next great thing.    Look if you want to buy some Aussie's line of crap thats fine but I'm smarter than you and it offends me that you think I'm gonna get on here and believe ya'll BS!

Don't address me anymore and we'll get along just fine, keep running your mouth and I'll start telling the stories the guys that have hunted with your mutts have been PMing me!    Good day

Black streak. I finally got tired of reading your crap about everyone else having dogs that only get half the job done. That's only reason I go on here. There is a place for your style of dog. A place. Not every place. So maybe that only makes them half ass

sir where can this style of dog not hunt?    i actually have finder holders and have hunted with others that have them and if you think they can't hunt different typesof terrian, your just proving your ignorance.     Maybe you have stags and finder holders confused because i have both.   I can run my finder holders like stags or with them but the stags can't do what the finder holders can when the finder holders are in their element.     
   As far as me making claims of having better dogs than everybody else on this forum or my style is better than any other style, you gonna have to do more than say i did such a thing.   You should point it out for me and the entire forum to see and in the context it was used.     If you can find such a thing I've said in the manner of which you are accusing me, i will emmediatly and humbly apologize to everyone on this forum.
     

Your tellin me if you dump in a pasture where you don't know there are hogs. Your finder/holders will go hunt and either wind a hog or hit a track and go with it??  If the case. They must be very very short range. There nuthin in the breeding that has a nose. And what happens if they do go catch one and it takes you 15-20 min to get there  like you said in your opinion your dogs work good for you. Maybe need to just let them work for you and not worrien bout tellin every body else. Other people's dogs in there opinion work God for them and there not bragging bout it

I know the type of dogs you hunt are fun no doubt. But if they were the All AROUND HOG DOG.  Don't you think they would be the thing to have. There's people been hunting hogs a long time. And haven't went to them. Why you think that is if there the real deal?

There's an entire continent that uses them and has done so for a long time Clown.They hunt with their noses just as any dog does they are line bred hog dogs bred best to best for Many generations there are many variations just as Curs here in America. Just because they're different from the style of dogs most are used to don't mean they aren't hog dogs.II don't know why this is so hard to understand. Maybe you should do some research on the breeds and history of the dogs before bashing a mans personal preference of hog dogging style and dog.

I know there's an entire continent that uses them. It's totally different country over there. Not bashing the style of dog just the black streak bragging about them. Personal preferance doesn't mean every one that uses other style dogs are only half way hog dogs. That's the point I'm gettin accross

Yes they hunt like a cur dog.   If you have been reading my post history like you say you have you would already have the answers to all the questions you just asked.         Biggest reason my dogs are even mentioned is because someone has asked about my dogs specificly.       I deliberately don't boast about my dogs so people like you ddon't have a leg to stand on when your emotions get the better of you.               

 You don't want me adressing you on here but you call me on my phone. How funny!    Oconee you the biggest fibber I've encountered in a long long while.      I would gladly like to hear your made up stories of people on this forum that have hunted with me since I've converted to hairy dogs.   I bet you and that imagination of yours could come up with some pretty radical stuff.  I challenge you to produce 1 persons handle on here that has ever hunted with my finder holders, you can't can you.      Just me replying to this bluff of yours is enough for me to discredit the rest of your post you just made.

I have never bragged on my dogs on here.   Only compared them to the dogs of people bragging about having better dogs than the rest of us on here.           As far as why this type of dog isn't very popular  here as compared to Australia.    Good question! If you could ever find anyone that had good finder/holder type dogs that could stand to keep company with you and let you tag along, you might be asking yourself the same question.               I dont knowof any person that runs this type of dog that aadvices their dogs or their style is for anyone else.       As a matter of fact it's quite the opposite.    Most people i know of are pretty guarded about who they will give these dog to, myself incuded.    Why would I or anyone else be telling people they should hunt this kinda dog if I didn't want to give them out?       
   Your entire reason for joining this forum was to come on here and argue as you said yourself.      You got issues.   You probably called me wanting a dog and I refused you truth be known here.   

Black Streak, what ur dealing with are obviously idiots who know everything yet know nothing. Best thing to do is ignore them and prove them wrong. I'm not gonna mention the crosses I'm making but folks will say they can't handle the thickets here cause their too big. I love proving them wrong.

Have you been to Australia?There are many different environments that they utilize their dogs in such as mountains,forest,cane,BlackBerry brambles coastal Marsh and Desert environments. Sounds pretty similar to hear.Not every place can be sight hunted the way you are imagining.The main difference is preference in the dogs performance hence breeding dogs specifically for finding and holding any hog for extended periods of time with ease.I don't get why this type of hunting makes tempers flare and I totally agree that it is not for everyone running dogs like this takes physical ability and commitment to get to the dog no matter what. This is the type of dog I prefer but it's just a preference just like eating a certain food.We might be on different sides of the fence about dogs but its certainly no reason to start picking at a grown man who spends his time and money how he chooses.

That continent has the highest hog population in the WORLD.     This junk won't work in places the hogs are thin!

Ok maybe "junk" was a little harsh!      My point is, these are NOTHING more than running catch dogs and they work great in areas the hogs are thick but if they are asked to trail oe range out and actually find a hog that might not be undee your feet they will fail miserably!     

Black streak. I went back and looked at the pics of your 446 pound hog. He looks like he's half pot belly.

That should have been his last post... anyone else want to join him?

If you can't post without talking $hit or name calling... then don't post at all.

I want to know how you can call a mans dogs junk, or tell him what they can and cannot do or in what areas they will fail to perform... Especially if you have never hunted behind the dogs?
Black streak, I spend quite a lot of time on here just reading and I can say your name along with judge peel and a few others have stuck out to me as guys who are very modest and knowledgable. You've got about as much of my respect as i can give through a screen

Slim I think you exactly right, I have no clue and for all I know them dogs will catch every hog in the world, I'm merely speculating!   

Dam I go away for three days and this site looks like FB....lol

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Thank you slim.   I appreciate that very much  and i know peel and the others do as well.    
I'll have to finish my thought later ttomorrow cause my wife as slipped me a.sleeping pill.and I'mseeing ddoubledarn!  

Finder holders, yea they really are the deal. The most efficient dogs I hunt.

They have nothing in common with RCD's different beast entirely.

Black Streak, I know him, good man, solid dogman, his dogs? Top notch.

There are many good finder holders working in Texas, proven dogs, proven style..... To question that is really kinda silly and for the uneducated.

Cheers,
Paul T

Well hello Paul!     Very very nice to see you on here again!     

Slim, sorry about my last reply.    I just flew in from work and  took a sleep aid  early last night that would allow me to sleep all night and allow me to reset me sleep schedule and get back on days with the rest of the people in this part of the world lol.   Anyway I do appreciate you thoughts as you expressed them. 

Black streak, where did u just fly in from?

It's no problem black streak. Could I ask you what you have found to be the biggest differences between say a generic RCD and your finder holders? To me just looking at pictures, I imagine they are a lot faster,  due to what they are crossed with I bet they catch harder, and I think their size and overall build probably saves them from taking a beating as often as a RCD. Atleast that's what I conclude from the pictures

Alaska.    That's where i work.    I work two weeks on and am off two weeks.      Fixing to go 3 and 3

I will reply to that later when I have time.   I promise I will though.

I know what you mean on the time diff. I hated working days while in afghanistan and iraq. When i would come hm, my internal clock was on the opposite side of the clock, plus i cant sleep on airliners and that 15hr flt across the pond sucks. Them 2 and 1s are nice, 2 and 2 would better, but i dont think i could do a 3 and 3 right now, but if we end up going to south america, it will be a 28 days on and 28 days off. Hopefully within the next 2-3yrs, we will have at least 1 heavy lift in S A. Whats your proffession?

I don't have any eexperience with what most peoples definition of a rcd is.   I will compare what most consider an rcd on here to what I consider a finder holder.          There have been a few others on here such as SilvertonBoarDogs that could articulate the differences better than I can though.          First I would like to point out that finder holders are not a certain dog but are wide ranging.    Some are smaller than my dogs and some are larger.    Most are crosses but some are pure.   Different crosses are made for different reasons.   Some to speed up the mental maturity of the big dogs and some crosses are for strength and some for adding speed.    There are pro's and con's to different styles of finder holders and people that use them tend to tweek them to how they want them.    Generally the dogs used in the crosses are all catch dogs such as mastiff, dane, boxer, pit, bull,  wolfhound,  deerhound,  and stags.   I'm sure i left out a couple.    All these dogs mentioned are straight catch but have different attributes and different things they bring to the table but most all of these breeds are not what they once were orginally when they were first developed.    The dane and boxer were originally bred for boar hunting as catch dogs.   The dane would have been the original finder holder I'm sure.    Even the danes we have here in America still as pets when hunted by finder holder guys will almost always make decent finder holders with some being a little to much for a lot of guys that have used them, but danes like that will not be the norm now days.   The dane has also gotten to big and suffers health problems as a result and will not hold up well to the stresses put on its body as they used too.  Reasons like this are some of the reasons why pure bred are not used but rather crossed,  to somewhat in a weird way get back the dog they once where. 
I'll see if I can stop rambling and just answere the question lol.   Finder holder are used to hunt for pigs by smell primarily.   If not
hunting finder holders by smell but rather by sight primarily you could use stags for that work.   Even good stags will wind pigs and go to them from a little ways off but they are used primarily as sight dogs.    Finder holders need to be at a minimum faster than a pig and the faster the better for the most part.   Their body design helps them tremendously in keeping themselves safe when holding a good boar.   Their length of neck combined with their length of leg prevents the boar from being able to punish them as much and keeps what punishment there is being dished out, in the well protected neck, chest and front shoulder area.     Rarely will a boar be able to get one of these dogs in a position where he can run a tusk in behind the front sholder.     They must possess the speed it takes to run a fleeing hog down in short order and catch it.    One of the biggest reasons these dogs are able to keep themselves injury their ability and style of catching pigs emmediatly and not allowing the pig to run to a desired spot to make its stand.  Granted good boars are sometimes caught in bad places that he had rather have made his stand at than anywhere else but even then the attributes of these dogs help them to fair well.     For instance water,   catch a boar sleeping in a water hole in the hot summer.   The dogs length of leg allows it to stand and maneuver in shallow water better than a dog that can't touch good and is having to swim.    Last hog I caught in the water with bay dogs and bull dogs ate our lunch.   Water was a wide water canal looking thing and was about knee deep.    The boar could touch ok and could run and spin and fight very effectively in the water.    The bay dogs and bull dogs could not touch well at all.   Many of them were laid up for weeks after that hunt healing.    The boar was struck in a fairly open area by the curs and was allowed to go where it wanted before making his stand.       If a finder holder finds a boar close to the water or close to extremely dense brush, the boar will not be able to get to the water or brush.   Usually!     The size of a finder holder is an asset but only if the dog is strong and powerful and is extremely athletic and agile.    A big slow powerful dog don't make the cut as finder holders usually as they would allow to many hogs to get away from them or reach good cover before catching them.     The power and agility and speed of a finder holder not only allows it to catch pigs where they are found but hold them there also.    Many boars are caught in dense thickets.   Again the power of these dogs coupled with their agility and body structure allow them to keep themselves safer rather than being waded up and pumaled while still holding on.    Their agility and along with how alot of their minds work will have them holding on to the boar but still jumping out of the way of objects the boar is trying to drive them into or and they will stear the boar.
Too much bull blood in a finder holder can influence this style of holding and cause the dog not to hold smart but rather hold with brute force.    Finder holders have a little different mind to them than bull dogs when it comes to holding but still won't let go.    They process thing a little differently which contributes to there good holding style.   They don't have the mindset of a pit when they are holding a pig but are still similarly as hard.   Kinda hard to begin to think about taking the title away from the pit as being the hardest dog but a good finder holder won't be letting go either.
   Finder holders need lots of endurance and stamina.   Not only because they actively search for pigs but in large part because they are their holding a pig for longer than normal.  Your not just hot on the heels of one of these dogs when it first makes contact with the pig.    It's not uncommon for my dogs to be caught 700 yards away.   These dogs have a time limite.   They can't hold indefinitely but different finder holders can hold longer than others, thus a dog that can't hold long before wearing down should not be a deep hunter.    Finder holder such as a good dane will often times hunt far out and take his nose a mile off and catch a pig.    My dogs cant hold that long before getting their nor would I expect them too but a good dane I would.   See how the world of finder holder breeding works.   There are lots of different variations you can have and breed for, it's just what style suits you best and the amount of country you have to cover.    In a heavily dense brush area I would not want a dane finder holder.    Such a dog would be miss matched to the environment,  not because he couldn't effectively do his job, no no no! It would be because he has the goods to get out of your effective range it would take you to get to him before he tired out. 
You can hunt  finder holders any way you hunt a cur dog.   Rig dogs, casting, walking, sight, lead in style like a bull dog etc.   One thing I would not do is run them on the ground with gritty or loose curs though.
Your finder holder should be the first dog to the hog.   Not the second or the third.   In my opinion with most packs of hunting dogs,  a finder holder would be ineffective and also dead at a young age.   
   Compare these types of dogs with the normal rcd as recognized by most on this forum.   Pit x cur of something similar.      Even though the rcd might be as hard as a good finder holder bred dog, it's not gonna have the same mindset or thought processes I wouldn't think.   Many other things would also be different about the two dogs BUT who's to say your rcd can not be used as a finder holder if the dog is hard enough to go 1 out on a decent boar.    To me, the biggest difference would be how the dog is hunted but a LOT of little other things go into making up a good finder holder rather than what is known as the rcd on this forum.          I would also think, a good purposely bred finder holder would fair much better in keeping itself injury free than the normal rcd when running under the same circumstances as a finder holder.
 Oh, 1 other thing.     It is my opinion that a finder holder should fully be capable of holding decent boars by themselves.     Not because I run one out because I dont.    I run 2 dogs down usually but not all the time do both dogs catch the same pig and sometimes if one dog smells a pig and catches while the other is hunting a little ways off, the other dog my be totally unaware of the catch because the hog is not making a sound.    Have experienced these two examples many times and therefore I want my finder holders to be fully capable of running 1 out...

   Slim, since I don't have much if any experience with rcd's I did not want to describe them much and compare them much to a finder holder, but rather tell you what my opinion of a finder holder is and let you see the differences for yourself.     I also did not want to knock any type of dog because they can all be fun and used effectively all over this world and in any type of terrain.   Just need the right combination of dogs.      In my opinion rcd's are very effective when run as a pack or with extremely gritty bay dogs.       It is also my opinion that a finder holder could also fit in well in a pack of extreme gritty bay dogs but very few packs would be suitable for such a dog to run in, in my opnion.    Judge, cracker, Taz and anyone else that runs curs that are almost straight catch could probably incorporate one of my dogs into their pack.   Short of packs like this,  you would take away to much of what makes a finder holder an effectiv dog.
   SilvertonBoarDogs (Paul) does many types of hunting with dogs.    He has a plethora of dogs he can mix and match and does run finder holder type dogs with other dogs now and then I do belive.    But he is a very smart dog man and knows his dogs very well and is able to pair them together very purposely and effectively with great outcomes whether he run them with stags,  curs, or dogos.

   



I am a driller on a drilling rig.         I can sleep so so on the planes but I'm still rung out when I get home.    If II'm so tired I want to go to bed early I will just take a sleep aid so i don't wake up after 4 hours of great sleep and want to get up and go start my day at 1 am lol.    If I take a sleep aid like advil pm of something,  I will usually sleep a little longer and get back in the groove of things very quickly especially since I'll have a slept a little on the planes.

Black streak good write up on your dogs. By what you said you could classify two of mine as finder holders minus the speed one is pretty fast for a cur but the other ain't lol I have seen them caught on a hog a mile plus get there and hog has no ears and they will pull off cheek arm pits what ever they can get hold of. With any thing it takes playing with game to find the sweet spot 


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Black streak. Do your line of the finder/holders have any dog aggression?

Blackstreak. I appreciate you taking the time to explain the difference. I tell my buddies all the time I wish I could just talk dogs all day. I just got a cur pit cross that has a little bit of hound in him not sure what but the guy who bred him thinks it might have been whippet or greyhound I think is what he said. This dog hunts fairly deep and is straight catch. But unlike the pics of your finder holder dogs he does not parallel his body with the hog, he catches at a 90 like any normal bulldog usually does but for being 6 years old he doesn't look like he's taken to hard of a beating. I run a strike vest on him for extra measure but I know his original owner didnt run anything more than a cut collar. This dog isn't a big dog in fact he's built like a small agile cur dog but has that blocky pitbull head. He does strike his own and will blow out of the county on a hot track. I run him on the ground with are other dogs because they are all pretty rough. Anyway with the little I have hunted this dog and the way you have described your finder holders, I can see a big difference. Sounds like the breeding of finder holders was done with the idea of making a running catch dog whose build and brains are directly the cause of the longevity of their hunting careers. RCDs sound like they come a dime a dozen when compared to a finder holder

I'm assuming your on the north slope around prudo bay? Not sure when it was, I think in the mid 2000s a drilling company wanted to see if one of our 107s could pull a 20,000# (I think, I'd hade to research that particular job) load on a hover craft. It looked as if the Heli was in like 70 degree nose down pitch attitude to get a near strait line pull on the load, but evidently it was just the position the photographer was in.

Hey black streak, I was completely wrong, it was in the 80s and the load was 40 tons with a combined total between load and hover barge was 220 tons. Here is the link.

http://www.colheli.com/news/the_hover_barge/

These dogs are not my line.   There the line of dogs from another guy who is a member of this forum.

Holly crap, that's a wicked looking picture lol
      I'm actually not on the slope.   I'm drilling on the kenia peninsula.

Slim,  my dogs are not shoulderd up to a pig in most cases when I get to them, especially when it's just 1 dog per pig.     Normally I'm seeing  the dog and pig facing one another especially if the pig is fighting hard.    The second dog if there is one will sometimes shoulder up but more often than not be on the pig at 90 degrees pulling the pig sideways.  In that case if dogs are opposite one another they will both pull opposite one another.   In that instance if the pig rushes forward, the dogs may shoulder up to the pig.    If the pig is calm and the dog is calm, often times they will just walk around together lol.   Kinda like they best buds lol.   Usually in that case even when I go to leg the pig, the pig doesn't get upset untill I have it on its side if I'm gonna hobble it..       

Depending how I'm gonna be able to build Flt hrs to be able to fly for columbia Heli, I may end up that way too working in homer as a mech and hopefully as a part time pilot flying for free.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e103/pwt3/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdeujpdl1.jpeg)j

Speed, nose, safe holding style, and hunt. She has it.

I bet that son of a gun can flat out get somewhere! 

That is a good looking long legged sucker.

I see what you mean when you where referring to Lapua's length of loin when looking at the picture of that dog Paul.      You think  Lapua has loins, you should see her brother.   Flat out rediculis as I've never seen any on a dog so long.       I'll get a good picture of him that shows them off well and send it to you.    He is not as fluid of a mover as his sister though but he got plenty of speed and is lugging up well.   He has fired off well on pigs.    Took him out with Lapua today for a quick circle to stretch their legs since i just got back home.    Put a vest on them and let them have at it.     He didn't do to shabby but he had Lapua there also.    That's a very nice looking dog  in the picture by they way.   

That is a fine looking animal.I can see how it would be extremely difficult for a pig to outrun her.

yep...she is a fine looking specimen...I like her bone structure and muscle tone...

Looks like long leg Linda    Nice dog


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I knew I should have explained the differences better   :-*   Just kidding
 

That is a real nice looking dog Silverton. How is she bred up, what is crossed into her?

Paul,

Serious question: can you take the dog you have pictured and track hunt her?  Drop her off on a fresh, not hot, track and she'll take it?

I've talked to you a time or two before, you probably don't remember me...

Reason I ask is that I run this type dog as well - you can scroll back through my old posts I believe there are some pics. I really only use mine for sight although I have turned them out alone on hot tracks before and they each came up with their own pig.  What I'm calling a hot track is we saw the sounder, they hit the brush and were out of sight probably 30 seconds before the door was dropped. 

Honestly curious on the nose potential these dogs have. Thanks.

She has a pretty good nose jsh, usually very dry here so winding is her style, but will take a hot track. She is Stag with a little Bull dog in her.

Sounds like a good one. I have a stag/lurcher pup on the way and I am hoping she will use her nose a little but I guess time will tell. Beautiful dog.

Yeah the two of them actually  ;D

A couple of dogs I'm running hear in aus.
The first one is a Paulson bull Arab bitch
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/A33364E6-1760-440D-B076-139CFC794196.png) (http://s1234.photobucket.com/user/hughduncan/media/A33364E6-1760-440D-B076-139CFC794196.png.html)
A Brian Neal bull Arab bitch
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/FACFA2F6-2CC1-4CF0-9AD9-05E3CBB8E371.png) (http://s1234.photobucket.com/user/hughduncan/media/FACFA2F6-2CC1-4CF0-9AD9-05E3CBB8E371.png.html)
Both bitch's r about 82lb an 2 year old strait catch, I only wind them off the back of the ute, I haven't done any walk hunting with them.

A male 10 month old Paulson line bull Arab
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/237AFAC4-F941-4ADE-9808-090D690543BF_2.png) (http://s1234.photobucket.com/user/hughduncan/media/237AFAC4-F941-4ADE-9808-090D690543BF_2.png.html)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/A2D5128F-76BA-4EAF-8062-ADFA68F04C46.png) (http://s1234.photobucket.com/user/hughduncan/media/A2D5128F-76BA-4EAF-8062-ADFA68F04C46.png.html)
An the last one is a 4 year old cross breed bitch with mainly Dane/bully/boxer but prob has a few more crosses in it, she's a very smart dog strait catch if it was sight work an if u were hunting her she would let out 2 or 3 barks when she got to the pig then catch, if u took too long to get to her she would let go an bark again till u got their an catch again ( I really like that) she is about 74lb caught a lot of pigs by herself.
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff414/hughduncan/FC2A88F1-00D8-4DE7-B4FC-2AF7AFEE34B3.png) (http://s1234.photobucket.com/user/hughduncan/media/FC2A88F1-00D8-4DE7-B4FC-2AF7AFEE34B3.png.html)

 Nice dogs Hugh.

I still have Runt, he's a solid little dog. 

Take care.

Nice dogs Middleton always wanted a bullarab how's the speed on yours?

Middleton,  I've been told that the finder holder dogs of OZ (as a hole) can pretty are superior to the dogs we have here in the US as far as a good finder holder, finder luggers go.     This makes very good sense to me for the reasons given.      Do you, having been apart of both worlds, find this to be true?   If so or if not so, I'd like to hear you comments and thoughts as to why or why not.
    Also I seem to see much more bone in the finder holder dogs you guys have in Oz compared to most dogs used here of the same nature when looking at pics.      Am i really seeing this in the pics of most Aussie finder holders?      Only Aussie finder holder blood I've ever seen here in the states is from the Bloom Brothers RIP dog.   He bred a few bitches when the dog was here in Texas.     I've seen several of his grandsons and 1 son.     Half had huge bone that looked as if  they were the bones of a small horse. Other half of the dogs I've seen were normal or slightly better.    All other Aussie blood was just pics.  Does this seem to be so, or not really?

Speaking of Rip... here's a pic of him and my old Clifford dog while he was here in the States.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/9e7d6a4bcad0563aa9c7406732b69b31.jpg)

I heard he was killed in his kennel by a black momba

Good looking dogs Middleton!

That is a cool pic Mike. Was clifford a catch dog for you?

that Rip dog looks good...is he a wolfhound cross? what is the story on him?

Good lord!! Now I see why that clifford dog was the man for a good while! That's a stout big sucker!! Nice looking dog mike

Thanks Art... I sure miss that old dog.

Reuben, not sure how he was bred. Cody Weiser had him for a while until he could be shipped back overseas... we just wanted to compare the two and took a pic. Rip was the star of some of the BloomBros hunting DVDs.

Rednose, he was my sole catch dog for almost 8 years. No telling how many hogs that dog caught... probably most of them by himself.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/822e565d8de6158650ceee06784341ee.jpg)

You want to know his breeding,  Google Bloom Brothers RIP dog.   You'll find a chart on him going back about 4 generations I think.

Dang I hope you name that one LeRoy Brown.

thanks Mike...that picture right there of ole Clifford is a classic...I have seen it many times on here and he is an awesome looking dog...

Is Clifford a catxab?


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Yes sir.

Thanks Reuben, that was the last pic before he died... gray in the muzzle and half of one canine left.

Glad to hear u still got runt I Had a lot of fun with him, how r your stag/bulldog bitches going ? U breed your catch dog back over one of those bitches didn't u? They started?
Their r some nice lines of bull Arabs out their u just have to get them off people that r hunting hard an proving their dogs! I reckon they have the same troubles as pure breed dogos, cats, black mouth curs they get popular an get breed by the wrong people coz they r worth money! Hear an in the states most of the best hunting dogs I've seen were crossbreed dogs. The ones I've got have a top speed of about 31mph.
I would say that maybe the only reason finding/holding dogs hear in aus mite be better is for the sole reason that this style of dog has been breed an run a lot longer then they have in the states? I never seen anyone running them while I was their an not a lot of the guys I hunted with over their run rcd's either. But don't worry theirs plenty of average dogs hear too.

I have got three grandsons of RIP on my yard, nice solid dogs all around.

Could you post some pics of them, I'd like to see what you've done with those genes


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