EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Here's a ped I put together on cross we're thinking about doing. What do y'all think about it... too tight, not too tight? Any thoughts or comments welcome.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/ebfea4b44e49b793412811b217e2ff3c.jpg)

The ped is a little off but I like it. Hows Pancho bred? But depending on that I don't think it is too close. Especially if Winchester and Tweety were some sure enougn dogs. Looks like a Nephew to Aunt breeding, good way to keep your family of dogs going. Good luck with it.

What's behind  Pancho? Was Winchester catahoula? I seem to recall him being a BMC or cross bred.

Pancho was a 3/4 bmc 1/4 plott and Winchester was just a brindle cur that went back to the Winfrey dogs... Tweety was a catahoula that Krystal Rohan traced back 11 generations.

These black dogs are scatterbred... but have produced a high percentage of good dogs over the past several years.

That's what matters


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I like how the pedigree is moving towards a tighter gene pool...if the selection process is there then you should see a higher percentage of quality pups...make sure to keep updating this thread so we can see the progression...do you have pics of Jase and Molly?

It's a loose linebreeding due to all the outcross genes from Pancho and Winchester. You could crunch on that ped for a while...

That's what I'm to get to Reuben... slowly but surely. Unfortunately, most of the dogs in this ped are dead now. But there's a lot of related dogs out there down from the Tweety/Winchester cross that I could go back to if needed... from grandpups, great grandpups to great great grandpups. I try to keep track of as many as I can.

That's what I was thinking Scott... I should be able to cross the dogs above and littermates for years to come without getting too tight.

that is great...breed to the best of them...sounds like you have options...

Just curious...what's the catahoula tweety dog's ped?

Don't have to be too particular...just a round about..

So i see jase is either a full or half brother to my lizzie gyp. Nothing is too tight lol i got an accident pup here that was full brother sister cross with their grandma out of a full brother sister cross. Smart as a whip with lots of hunt!

Reuben... here's Jase.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/575cb940e5b7181d511bfcce9fb6ae91.jpg)

I don't have a pic of Molly, here's three of her littermates... Hunter, Striker and Ruby to give you an idea.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/1e5a42af5aa49c334e5837cb9e899e89.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/2210fa4538ab25f6142f4d226da4a6a1.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/9f87cec66bd491ae703cdc73414b1492.jpg)

Semmes, I don't have it... but I believe it was the D'arbonnes(not sure on spelling) line of dogs from north central Louisiana.

Jase and Lizzie are littermates.

Thanks mike...was just wondering cause Scott and I did a cat breeding recently that we got out fingers crossed that it took, but I just wondered if it was related blood. Scott filled me in as best he knew as well..
Thanks again

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.
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Great topic and nice lookin dogs Mike. I am not a breeder and do not claim to be. I am a student of breeding and genetics so that maybe one day I can be a successful breeder.
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If I am interpreting the ped correctly, there are 4 litters behind it. Winchester/Tweety, Pancho/Brandy, Obama/Tweety, and Hunter/Lucy. I am sure you observed each of the 4 litters and made mental notes of the crosses that possessed the traits you like.
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It seems that you could tighten the line quicker by breeding Jase back to Lucy or a Lucy littermate/full sister. Not sure if this is an option or not however it would take the line toward the Tweety genes. Probably not your intention.
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It appears that you appreciated the Pancho/Brandy cross and are looking to find a balance between the Pancho and Tweety traits. By not breeding too tight, too quickly, you should achieve a sustainable line as well.  Am I interpreting your goal correctly? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

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One more question.....Did Pancho have any linebreeding in his pedigree?

Shotgun, I don't know anything about the Pancho dog or his background... but I do like the dogs that cross produced. If could recreate my old Hunter dog and have a yard full of dogs like him... I'd be set.

Unfortunately, I've lost several key dogs I had plans for over the past two years. But there is a Hunter daughter from a previous litter I bred out there... I'm curious about crossing Jase over her for a 1/2 brother 1/2 sister cross. Plus, a Jase littermate has pups on the ground right now also that I'll be getting a pup from. I'm thinking any of these future pups I could take back to Lucy and still maintain a lot of the original Tweety/Winchester blood?

I kick myself in the ass everyday for not making the Hunter x Tweety cross before she died.

I thought that was him. Looked like the dog you had with you that day in corrigan.

I really like 1/2 brother sister breedings, really good way to double up on the sire or dams genes. I don't breed hog dogs, but I have been in bulldogs for quite some time and I am a student of that breed, and a lot of good families have been held up through such breedings. I know a really well known breeder that has bred his own line of dogs for quite some time now through Father x daughter, mother x son, Uncle x Niece, Aunt x nephew, and cousin x cousin breedings, basically doing it this way he doesn't really have to outcross. Only thing he won't do is brother x sister though he has told me his is not against it, and would do it in the right circumstance. He says he isn't doing it now cause he don't need to. You can also really measure your family of dogs traits in a bro x sis breeding.

Rednose,  I've always heard the 1/2 brother sister crosses seemed to produce better dogs. We also have a breeding planned to the Lucy gyp in the above ped to her 1/2 brother. They're both out of the Obama dog and his dam is out of some old local blood.

Mr. Mike, I just made this cross earlier this year and didn't seem to have any bad results so far. Actually, all these pups seem to be turning on a little sooner than I had thought they would. I can't take the credit for it, Mr. Larry had put in all the time. He has gotten them pretty dang tight.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/26/715d6192bd34218612b0530dc05d8c5f.jpg)
I am trying to make this cross now, so hopefully it turns out ok. Hopefully I will be able to let you know in about 4 months!!
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/26/af241fa1bd8609fc2ed5ac992ea5c8e7.jpg)

For those interested my good friend downloaded a pedigree software on my laptop, that's really useful at keeping up with your yard and gives you inbreeding coefficients and such. I'll check with him and see what the name was he got it offline several years ago.

You know a whole lot more about that the I do. I would be the one asking you

Sanman, have you ever had any health problems, skin conditions, skittishness or anything show up in the dogs bred that tight?

Mike...I had a dog named Buck that was the father, grandfather and great great grand father to some of my pups and they were all pretty awesome dogs by a year old...no issues...lots of hunt, nose, bottom and gritt...this dog was scatter bred on the sires side but his sire was a once in a lifetime dog...his dam was very tight bred kemmer out of the Gold Nugget line...the main outcross I bred to him was a Texas Smoke bred mnt cur  female that was  3/4 Texas Smoke bred...her pups out of Buck were pretty good hog dogs...no major issues...had one pup that seemed to have hip dysplasia that had to be put down...was very good looking with lots of good bay to him...had another that didn't have an under coat and was over shot but was an awesome hog dog...

Mr. Mike I have 5 at the house right now and none of them have any major health issues. I didn't have any issues with the litter I had in April. All of them have grown normally, and are big nice looking pups. Having said that, the one thing I am having trouble with right now, is trying to catch the gyp I am trying to breed when she is in heat. I don't know if hers is very light, or just not there. I finally just brought the male over and am kenneling them together until we really kick back off in the spring.

Skittish is kind of a tough one. I had a litter sister to the gyp I am trying to breed now. She was given away as a puppy cause she was too skittish. She went through a couple people and when I got her at around 18 months, you damn near couldn't put a hand on her. I don't know whether  to contribute that to the breeding or lack of handling. Hard to say. I took her and started hunting her with a string on her so I could catch her and eventually she got to where she would at least lay down. I will say that none of these dogs seem to be the real touchy feely type. They tolerate you, but really don't want to be buddies with you. 

The litter I am trying to breed now will tell the tale, I believe. Good bit tighter than the last one. I made these crosses to try and get back to some of Mr. Larry's older stuff. The problem is going to be where I can go with the pups I am shooting for with this breeding. I don't know if they can take another full Parker cross.

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Appreciate the response Mike. It's nice to see guys like yourself who have been successful in the game for a while remain curious and open minded. You guys catch em pretty regular so whatever you are doing seems to be working. Happy Huntin to ya.

Sanman, I seen that happen in an old line of dogs my family had for years, some of the real tight bred gyps wouldn't cycle at all.

Don't tell me that, lol. I had this gyps litter sister that was turning into an exceptional dog. She got killed. There is only this gyp and another one left from that cross. Parents are dead also. Really wanting to get some pups out of het

Sanman have you tried giving her a shot to make her cycle, I know some people it's worked for and some it hasn't, can't tell you first hand any experiences I've had using it personally but it's worth the try.

Goose, I did give her an 8 way to rule that out. I haven't tried anything else. My uncle is a vet, so I will have to give him a call and see what he has to say about it.

http://www.revivalanimal.com/PG-600.html


Should've been more clear my apologies, this is the shot I was referring to.

I knew the shot you were talking about Goose, but didn't know the name, thanks. There was another thread awhile back talking about gyps coming in and a couple people talked about gyps that never had a lepto shot not coming in. They are cheap, and I didn't raise this gyp, so I did it to rule that out.

Have any of yall ever used that shot?

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