EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a game bred gyp that's outta redboy/jeep with a touch of hollands blood in there she has no fear so far but only time will tell and she will be a smaller dog 35-40 pound range

Are selling her and what u asking

Iam keeping this female but there are still some available for 350 with papers

Let's see a pic of that dog


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Yall fellas wIth these sure enough old school bulldogs , I have a Question. ..do these dogs tend to be real "hot" so to speak. Like are they sometimes hard to deal with in the presence of other dogs? I Have been seriously contemplating getting an old blooded dog. I have a bulldog now that does his job but im sure fascinated with the history of these old game dogs. I know how to establish my dominance and get a handle on a dog. But how different are these old school game dogs than the blue dog I got now? He gets along with everything.  He will "bow up" on a strange dog but he has never offered to fight. And soon as I holler "HEY!!" He will drop his head and walk off. I have had this dog from a pup and "knock on wood" so far he's the best listening dog I've got

Iam not sure how to post a pic but of you like I can text you a pic of her my number is 2544332983

Here she be dodo87 (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/16/756cab636e0037fd1ff728de656f142c.jpg)


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That is a great question. I will give you my opinion formed by a long time of raising them and breeding them. I would say stay away from real gamebred bulldogs because they are almost for sure going to be hot, and usually not just a little. Yes its true you can socialized them but even then if you have one with a real high drive its going to have to be constant and if you let off a while it will go back to being really hot again, not to mention if you do have one that you have socialized and another dogs starts one up, once they get going you better be ready, and you better know what you are doing. There are exceptions to all of this I know but if they are real gamebred bulldogs with working blood up close that is what they will be exceptions. Too many people go looking for these types of dogs for the novelty or cool factor, some go looking because a good ones bravery is second to none and who doesn't admire that? But regardless a lot of people get these dogs who have no business owning one and that can only turn out bad. Like on another thread I read on here about selling working dogs to pet homes, or to the wrong kind of working home. All bad.

So with all of that being said I would say ask yourself why you want one? If its for a catchdog there are way easier routes to go. By one from a weight pulling background, a blue one, and or a purpose bred one down from other catchdogs, or if you are really determined to have some history go with a OFRN or go to Mr. Hammonds I heard his make great catch dogs though they still can be hot, but I heard a lot of people being able to use them. Or I have seen some people advertise as gamebred where the last working relative was 5+ generations back that might work a little better, not sure though never had anything like that. I hope that gives you some helpful info from my first had experience.

Couldn't agree more with red nose theses dogs can be hot and definitely have to be on your toes with them socialize is huge and dont get caught sleeping on the job I have been fortunate to have been around many true gamebred pits and have had a great success rate with them catching but not for a ever day person the more they work the better they are use that drive for the right reason

Good stuff rednose. I will say it like this put a rock in your shoe and walk around it hurts right then move it around in your shoe now you cand walk fine but if it rolls out of that spot trouble again same with this type dog


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I have 35 yrs with these dogs and tried a couple catching. I knew I was gonna try hunt them so I never encouraged any aggression. The first ones two grandfathers were Gr. Ch. Blackjack and Ch. Rodriquez Gator. The only dog he ever grabbed was a plot that ran by in a thicket when the hog broke. The other one was a nephew of this dog and I had no dog aggression issues with him but he was too damn excitable and never could pick a mark and go to it. He just grabbed the first part of the hog he got to. He got a whole corner of his upper jaw yanked out. I will probably mix in the older dogs semen I have put away at some point with the linebred catchdog I now have. I think you can make catchdogs out of them but it takes a lot more work in my opinion.   

I agree, good post rednose.

As far as crosses...

I have done it. So far the results are pleasing. I got what I was looking for with it I hope. They are young so the jury is still out. I started with an ab with the perfect temperment line breed on dogs with similar traits. Ab breeding programs and physical phenotypes run the gamet from full on protection dogs to hunting dogs to farm dogs to pets to all of the above.There are so many bred components and traits in the breed as a whole that specific bloodline usage is very important. Luckily there are programs and lines that have been bred somewhat specifically for certain traits generationally so as to create 'lines' that incorporate the whole spectrum of venues and dif breed components of these 'lines' certainly plays into it as well.
So if one digs around long enough and learns about these things they can find an ab 'line' to suit the work they intend to do...

The one I'm using is known for good drive for hogs, not super dog aggressive, and good health and conformation, and unapologetically good with people. most working ab breeders breed for protection or bite sports. i can dig it... i like em, but that doesnt help (in gavt it hinders)in hog hunting. Even still I felt some things were lacking and could be improved upon for real day in day out woods catchdogs. I wanted better teeth, a bit more stamina and wind, and maybe a touch more drive.

I figured, with the great temperament of the dog I used coming from a well known line with that temperament and a bred in hog catching propensity, I could counteract a bit of the heat from the pitbull but also grab what I wanted to add genetically and end up somewhere in the middle and go from there forward.

....not to say I'm the first or only one that has done it and I have admired folks with similar programs and goals do it long before I did with good results... Even programs focused on the more protection side of the spectrum...but they used dif type ab as starting point.

Interesting stuff fellas. Thank yall..... semmes I like your way of thinking

I can't post pics because I can't remember my dadgum password for the App Store to be able to install the tapatalk thing...

Here are some links to the crossed dogs and how they are working out thus far. ...they are still young. Only three gyps survived from the breeding.

The first is my hunting partners dog. She has the perfect drive and temp for a CD.
Doesn't bother with any other dogs, listens well, and hates a hog.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460453-swine-stalkers-rouxgaroux-of-semmes (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460453-swine-stalkers-rouxgaroux-of-semmes)
The next is my dog. She is a bit on the warm side but not over the top and also hates a hog.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460452-semmes-cj (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460452-semmes-cj)
The last is placed in a safe secure home. She is cold and has not been started on anything yet. Has a good temp and will be worked eventually as well.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2461055-hendersons-bella-of-semmes (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2461055-hendersons-bella-of-semmes)

Sorry for multiple post but I've already lost this thing twice on my phone so I'm gonna split it up. But I do wanna talk about the pitbulls I used and why...

Continued...

About 6 1/2 yrs ago I was lucky enough to find a couple guys that were local and willing to carry me and my bulldog and my curdog around on hunts. For those two guys I'll be forever grateful...they both helped me thru some hard personal times as well. Before that i literally had to travel all over the southeast to get out on hunts. Anyway, me and this one friend spent the next 5+ yrs hunting together every single wknd just about...
He had this pitbull CD that the first time I saw it I wanted to breed to my AB. He was a big catchweight dog and a hog catching sob. Now he was was a couple gens off what somesy call 'bulldog work' but he was pretty doggone hot none the less and needed policing before and after a bay but on a send he was all business and always caught correct and manhandled hogs.
I had plans after a full AB litter I did to breed to him but my catahoula accidentally hooked up with my AB and thru a wrench into the plan. By the time I was ready to breed her again a couple years later he was too old and past his prime. He actually died at 13-14 yrs old the week before I hooked my dog up to his son. The birthdate on this pedigree for the dog is wrong btw
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=88205 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=88205)

His son that sired the litter is like his clone. Big and manhandles hogs and catches correct as well...he just as hot tho lol.
His ped is online as well on the previous link but I made this one so I could include a pic
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460455-ground-zero-kennels-junior-apbt (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460455-ground-zero-kennels-junior-apbt)

May yet down the road incorporate a dog from the accidental catahoula litter with one of these...
Had one dog from that turn into a great CD. The rest were culled
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460853-tonto-of-semmes (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2460853-tonto-of-semmes)

And also add one or two ABs or something off them back in the mix that i got floating around as well that have made dogs...
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1298215-hendersons-tank-of-semmes (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1298215-hendersons-tank-of-semmes)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2111923-inmans-swamp-rat (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=2111923-inmans-swamp-rat)

Breeding is a pretty fluid thing with me and I'll take it where it goes and try and do my best by the dogs at same time

I would like to ask a question or two to the game bred pit guys who have real knowledge about the game pits of yesterday regards to their fighting style in an effort to add more food for thought to this thread.  It  is my understanding that certain family lines have slightly different fighting styles but I'm not really wanting it broke down that far, just a average comparison over all.
   How did the game pits go about fighting?  Was their focus on one general area of the other dog such as the head or neck or was it what ever offers itself?   Did they shake and thrash and try to rip the other dog apart or do something a little different?   Did they do much regripping and bitting even if they had a good hold in a good spot or would they just stay hooked up on that one desirable spot even when taking punishment from the other?        How big were the majority of these type of pits and what was their endurance like?
             
         Once these question have been answered and keeping them in mind, the question now would be to the hog enthusiasts if  the guys answering the first half of the question are not one in the same. 
         Strickly from a catch point of view since the other issues have already been addressed,  do these characteristics of the true game bred pit, in your opinion make it a better or worse dog for catching pigs than the common catch dogs generally used by most?

Check out the website below. Alot of great information related to Gamedogs. The site will provide you with a true appreciation for the time invested and the passion the fast lane guys had for these dogs and competition. They were certainly dog men, no doubt about it.  I have learned a few lessons from the site and been able to apply it to hunting dogs. 
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http://www.gamedogshistory.com/
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My observations and research have lead me to agree with wayout west and his viewpoints on the application of gamebred pits as catchdogs.

I like your thought process, and can see you have some true experience in crossing these dogs, which I do not. I have only had them in their purest forms.

So I would like to ask you a question and hear your thoughts on it. If your goal and purpose in mind is to breed catch dogs, wouldn't you be better off using normal apbt's or american bulldogs, or crosses of the two? I am still pretty green overall to hog hunting but I have used one of my bitches to catch and yeah out of about the 5 or 6 catchdogs I have seen she hit the hardest by far (like a train wreck lol) but she was also by far the hardest to contain and then manage after, and her style caused problems as well. I have seen a couple of american bulldogs catch and a blue pit catch and though they did not hit as hard, they were far better catch dogs imo due to the fact they would catch and hold, where mine would catch and hold but though she didn't regrip she would shake her hold out which caused problems with the hogs ears. So I would think I would only add a gamebred bulldog because the other breeds like american bulldogs or normally bred apbt's just were not very strong catch dogs and had a tendency to let go and quit. Is this the case an average? Meaning my thought process would be if I needed to add strength I would add american bulldog, if I needed speed or endurance I would add apbt. I would want to stay away from anything that was real hot. Do you see a big enough difference in performance to justify all the extra work I assume that comes with breeding the gamebred ones into your program?

I would love to hear your thoughts cause I find myself starting to breed my own pack for hunting and I can use my bulldogs to go the gamebred route or I can use friends dogs in my breeding program to go the other way.

The way I see it I did use 'normal' apbt. ...just a somewhat verifyable, more genetically clean decent bred dog.

The owner himself didn't claim the dogs as game dogs, in fact he said in that context they may be rough curs on a good day.

But I saw for many years the grandsire catch hogs and he was clean catching, either on the ear or snout almost 100% of the time and controlled a hog and rarely got injured.

Was fast as greased lightnin and had wind for days and was big a$$ dog for a dog from gamebred lines.

I wanted that size. I had alot of dog to pick from to stud too on that yard from different lines with venue tested dogs much closer up but they didn't wetu whistle in the least. Not to mention I watched some of them catch and they were much like wayoutwest's description. I knew this one dog was a hog dog, that won catch comps and trophies in that bit also caught plenty in the woods in real life situations. I saw it.

Now he was an hole in the butt at times but could be confidently released when he could hear a bay and go past every other dog to do his job.

As I mentioned. I wanted that kind of wind and breathing... Or at least a little better. A better muzzle with better teeth. I have been around alot of abs and if anyone tells you these are not concerns in the breed ESP for a catch dog they either aren't being honest with you or honest with themselves.
I live in Louisiana and hunt all summer long. We get in spots where we send bulldogs from say 200 yds through briar thickets that could take a while to get to them. If I walked a dog straight into every bay it wouldn't be as much of a concern. ...but honestly we might only actually get a chance to walk into a couple bays year like that.

I've seen some really good blue dogs as well but I don't think they breed as true temperament wise or phenotype wise. To me they are kinda like the ab. Lets face it...somewhere down the line something was crossed in to create blue 100lb pits...
Just another can of worms I would have rather avoid

Just my personal reasoning for trying it out.

Rednose, I have found over the years that not every line of APBT are the same. My stuff down from Blackjack blood do not seem to be as naturally aggressive. They seem to size things up before they react. Very different than the lines I started out with. Just my opinion.

Lets look at it this way. Simce i dont sell dogs producing mutts is a nonfactor.What do I have to lose with trying it?

A bit of handle. A bit of size. A bit of calm smart catching sense

What do I have to gain?

Better wind, better muzzle and teeth, better overall health, vigor, a touch more drive and even a bit of hardness to a degree. Yeah it was worth the experiment when they can always be culled, but may click just right in one or two and maybe even better in the next generation of a blend

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag326/coondogo80/Mobile%20Uploads/20160102_173954-1_zpseefoofmd.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/coondogo80/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160102_173954-1_zpseefoofmd.jpg.html) this is my blue dog that ive been talking about.  Hes 60 pounds on a heavy day. So far he's proven himself pretty well for me. 

Wayout I def value your opinion and I agree with it, I know this to be true as well. Some dogs and lines throw more fiery dogs, just like some throw early starters, and some throw lots of cold dogs. Matter of fact I have seen some strange things with these dogs over the years, and there is no rule, just majority and exceptions no 100% I was just speaking in general terms is all, but I see what you are saying you would go with a line that tends not to be as fiery.

Thanks for your answer Semmes just wanted your point of view on it cause I know bulldogs inside and out but no experience with crossing them into anything.

Oh and sorry Dodo I did not mean to thread jack your topic bud.

Georgia, I don't lump all the blue dogs together. Each dog stands on it's on merits and the direction the were bred toward.

I know the blue dogs temperament runs the full spectrum. Alot are bred on protection tendencies. Alot as well by thugs with no real knowledge or skills for this type of thing.

It's a fact that if you watch pitbull bite videos all over the web the majority are big blocky amstaff or bluedogs. I ride thru the ghetto or north Baton Rouge daily to get to work and routinely see these type of dogs being walked around and showcased. Even the videos of the creators such as gotti and razor edge advertise them as home protection guardian dogs. There is even an interview online where it is admited they are crossed up dogs.

I have seen plenty of great temperamented well behaved ones as well. But the popularity of snd yge fact that there are do many in inexperienced homes of these particular dogs has led directly to human deaths and bsl all over this country.

Just check Craigslist in any city in the country and 50+% will prob be blue bred pits.

Here is a good blue dog. The trainer is a guy I know. I would say friend but I haven't seen him in years but we were once on a first named basis. I met him quite a few times and he is a great trainer, he also was an AB guy. Some on this board know him as well and could second that.

This dog is hummer. Troy didn't own him but kept him for couple years and trained him for the owner who was a sports star, rapper, or sumthing... That part is kinda vague lol but dude had big money lets say.

This dog was one badass sob. I met the dog at a dogshow in the Chicago area. The dog would flat out take a persons nutz with just his presence and knew it. I don't mind saying, that even tho the dog was under complete control he scared me a bit lol.
Dog would actually look you in your eyes almost as a dare lol
Anyway it was In a movie as well. The last nighare on elm street flick.
Dog was a fine dog! No doubt....but don't get it twisted the dog was real and meant business

I day all this go say without knowing the breeding and bit bout the recent ancestors of a dog such as that, it's just a can of worms I wouldn't open.

Here's couple links to video of hummer.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5lR1VzYfX2M (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5lR1VzYfX2M)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rtlkYqRzI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5rtlkYqRzI)
For more vids google Troy seaton and hummer

The dog I bred to I knew the sire, dam, and grandsire grand and grand dams of  and great grand sire and dam in one side of and knew exactly what I was getn into.

Your fine and I like the info being posted