EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

           

SO I have been pondering this myself for a while and talking about it with some of my hunting buddies and thought it would be a good topic to discuss. Myself and a buddy of mine hunt a large deer lease and a friend of ours hunts the bordering lease and also owns land on the other side of that lease so between us we have quite a large area to hunt.  We all are on the same page (regardless of if it is right or wrong  ;D) regarding the hogs we have on these properties and how we want to manage them.

Ok so I managed to screw that up............ my computer went dum dum on me and didn't let me finish........


       Anyway, we are all actively trying to kill any and all hogs that do not fit the profile of the hogs we have had in the past. We have all agreed to kill any hog that has characteristics of imported, not native (if you will) hogs............... Now we all know that none of these hogs are native if you go back far enough, I am using the word "native" to describe hogs that have been around our area for longer than I have been alive, generally thicker, stouter, bulkier hogs.......pretty much simply better blooded hogs...... over the years some folks in our area have introduced domestic hogs to the woods which has in turn thrown more color into the hogs we have today, these aren't the hogs we are actively killing, in fact these are the hogs we are  marking and turning back out. We are NOT targeting hogs simply based off of color, we are looking for hogs that are built different than the hogs we have had in these woods for years.
       
      Those of you that have been in the woods for a while will know exactly what type of hog I am talking about, while some areas hold larger populations that are more influenced than others I would imagine by now most folks in texas have at one point or another seen and run into this type of hog. The hogs we are killing are the longer more streamline hogs, hogs that generally are built lower and slimmer in their rear ends and larger/ bulkier in their front ends with longer more stretched out heads and longer legs, built more athletic then the rooter hogs we have had in these woods longer than i've been alive. The majority of the hogs I am talking about are generally a reddish brown almost rusty color but they do come in just about every other color with smaller ears and bigger, longer heads than their rooter relatives.

        Obviously we all know that we will not wipe these hogs out BUT we much prefer to kill these than we do to kill our rooter type hogs and we have been trying to practice catch and release whenever possible on our better blooded hogs, and killing or barring these hogs that show more characteristics of outside introduced genetics to minimize the further breeding and dilution of our rooter type hog population.


         When I first started chasing these hogs some 10 years ago it wasn't unusual for us to catch wattled hogs, over the years these type hogs have gotten harder and harder to come across and now when we do catch one we try to keep it in the best shape we can to turn it back out. 


         Thoughts? Opinions? criticism? lets hear it. Any one else out there working on managing their herd?

And before anyone mentions it yes we have permission to turn out hogs  and we do still kill quite a few, just not all.

Very interesting post. I agree with you on hog management. People want to complain about places that there is no hogs, but yet they kill everything they come across. If you manage hogs then you will have hogs. I have a place that has quite a bit on there. Try to keep as many in the place as possible. I like the way the old school hogs looks. Not the hogs that all you see of them is crossing the road in front of you steadily running lol. I try to keep as many colored hogs in the place as I can. I have been feeding one boar hog since 2011 and he was just a pig then, yellow spotted but if you get on him he does nothing but run. We don't normally kill any unless we are going to put them in the freezer. Barr and mark or if we have a buyer we may sale a few. When I started going with my dad when I was just out of diapers I remember him sitting me in a tree and they go in to the bay's and sometimes it being a wad of hogs or one salty boar or Barr. Easy to catch with no problems besides being rank. Now pretty much 17-18 years later if the bulldog going to the bay don't break them then that's suprising. If people left the hogs that bayed in the woods just mark and release it would be a better and we would have better hogs.


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I kill or take out alive everything I catch because all my spots I got because the farmers and ranchers need them gone. I'd be slandered all across the county if I was caught releasing hogs whether it was a 300 lb boar A 100 lb sow or a piglet


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Slim I understand that and I have hunted places where I had the same orders BUT that is for a different thread. THIS thread is for the folks that luckily do not have to follow those orders.

^ bingo, folks like yourself are the ones I was speaking of in regards to this post. The ones that have been in the woods 10-15-20 years or more and have also noticed the overall change in hogs throughout the years. I did not start running dogs until 05/06 but I was in the woods all the same, hunting em with my brush gun and running traps and I can personally say that I have seen quite the change in hogs over the years. Also to clarify, my family hunted the same block of woods for 23 years before my grandfather finally gave up the lease due to continued timber harvesting and increasing lease rates. I was off of that lease and did not hunt the land for 4 years, luckily myself and a friend got back on a lease that borders the lease I grew up and ran around on for all those years. So in order to even further narrow down what I am talking about regarding the overall change in hogs I am speaking about based off of one general area.

My dad pasture rode a deer lease in Tyler county for a little over 17 years. His cousin had it for years before that. When he had it he didn't let anyone hog hunt it with dogs besides him. He trapped over 1000 plus hogs in the lease just marking and turning them loose. We let the lease go because of the hassle it had become. It was 3,500+ acres then and now about 300. Last I heard the hogs ran bad in there. Used to could go and catch a trailer full. Honestly couldn't tell you the real reason in the changes of the hogs from now and then but I could tell you my thought and opinion but it may hurt someone's feelings lol.


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I'm trying to find out where this overwhelming population of hogs is that everyone is talking about...


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wasn't trying to disagree with what your doing. I wish I could manage the population in a place like you talk about. It's no fun hunting places 3 times, catching a couple pigs and then having to wait 2 months for them to come back in there.


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I remember catching the hogs Justin are talking about, still do but not near as often. About 10 years ago maybe more someone had the idea of turning some I guess Russian type hogs out, and the hogs we catch are looking more and more like that every year. And I don't know for sure what 7m was talking about but I would bet she was implying that the reason every other hog takes your dogs on a marathon is because of the quality of some of the dogs around(not everyone) is not the same. The slow ones get killed, and the runners get away and get to breed more runners

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We try to manage them all we Barr every boar. I have no preference on what they look like. Only kill the barrs when we want one to eat. Kill a sow if she is chewed up.
Their is a reason why you don't see the old piney wood rooters like it used to be. They are easiest caught.
 Besides easy hogs don't make good dogs.

Agreed

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Especially your last 2 sentences

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Yes sir that's about what I was getting at. All these Facebook warriors and high school hunters with dogs you gotta walk to the hog that won't range out more then 300 yds, that catch the smallest weakest hog in the group everytime. I had someone ask me if I thought the reason hogs run in our area so bad was if dogs drove them. In that case it would be like the old timers and bunch up. It's all to everyone's opinions but hogs are smart creatures and learn fast.


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I have a half Duroc half hamp boar, every sow I catch that is open spends 2-3 weeks in the pen with him before they go! It's helped the look,the size and all that damn RUNNING! I've been using him for 4 years had a spotted Poland China I used before him, it's working for me might be something you fellas could try

I'm 67 yrs old & have been hog hunting ever since I was big enough to ride behind my daddy"s saddle. We cut & marked then & still cut & mark now.There is a big change in the hogs & the dogs. I see more russian blood in the hogs We have 11,000 acres leased for hogs & deer.It is very hard to stay on 11000 acres with the way the hogs run now.We have hunted other places & caught lots of russians and brought them back & released them on our lease.This made for more hogs but not the best hogs to bay & rally.Now we bay  every color in the rainbow.We still have a pretty good stock of hogs though. We brought in 13 bars last winter for sausage & I weighted every one of them as we butchered them.The 13 weighed 3720 lbs.I know that russian blood runs worse than the old stock, but they are survivers. The are more nocturnal whitch  makes it harder for the deer hunters to kill them.If you are trying to take care of your hog herd, the worst thing you can do is put rough dogs in them.This makes the hogs run worse & them "alligaters" will cripple or kill lots of your stock.When I was young , my daddy only hunted 1 dog at a time,& if it caught before he was told to, he didn't make the trip back home.If you want to keep hogs  in the woods,leave the sows alone,cut every boar you catch, & keep rough dogs out of your hogs!!! BOLO ---the old blue boar

Just ol' mixed up curs. There were so many hogs back then ,you could show a dog many hogs in a day

I'm reading this and wondering why if yall want a more domesticated looking and acting feral pig to catch, why yall don't just buy a hand full of domestic sows and run them loose where you hunt.  That would by far be the quickest, simplest, and easiest way to accomplish what I believe yall are wanting to get back to.
    ???

   This would be a perfect way to accomplish what I think this thread is aimed at.  Even much better than my suggestion of buying a few domestic sows as turning them out.     With your way the feral sows will stand a much better chance at living long enough and educating her young for survival in the wild.  Plus only got to buy 1 pig but you do have to house and feed it.      If your a land owner and want this type of pig, I'd buy sows and turn them loose since you controle the hunting but if your leasing or just have access to land and can't controle the hunting, bringing the feral sows to the domestic boar then releasing the sows back into the wild to give birth and raise her young and pass along her knowledge and skills of survival amongst hunters and the other obsticals would probably be far better than my idea.
       

That's cool, I've thought about doing that


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Same things happening out where I hunt with the Russian blood, more thin long legged, long snout and not much fat on them, I prefer the other stalky hogs we used to have, most are halfway in between. I've been wanting to Barr all the Russians. It would be iffy to release the ones I've been catching, even when I get there fast, the ears are really tattered. I might need to start running bay dogs. It's so steep here that if you get a hog that's keeps breaking it can really wear you down, there's no roads either. Maybe I'll set up a hog trap and Barr em


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Manage the hell out of your spots, get em ready for tournaments and win those buckles n cash!!

To be honest that would be the easiest way to do it BUT we arent tryin to introduce even more hogs, we just want to manage the ones we got.

Believe me there are PLENTY in southeast Texas, ya just gotta find the places that haven't been run on and outlawed nonstop for years. But I can assure you that they are around, more that one would think. I can go 10 minutes from my house in ANY direction and see hogs and I don't live but 15 miles outside beaumont.

Didn't mean that to sound rude Slim9797. I know the feelin.

            Hillbilly, what you are saying is correct however we are not trying to necessarily make em easier to catch as we honestly don't have an issue catching them now, we simply want to preserve the old blooded hogs of the past for the future.........its a hobby for us as none of us are trying to make any money by catching/selling these hogs.  This is just something to do to take up our spare time because we enjoy it.

I agree one the 1 dog out. So far this year we have been dropping one grown dog and one puppy at a time. Once we have a bay, one of us will slide in and we go from there regarding dropping more dogs to catch the hog depending on what we feel we need. I enjoy hunting 1 grown dog at a time, lets you learn alot more about each dog and what makes them tick.

I've got a young male BMC that we've been running alone.  He's about 14 months old. And hes been impressing me since he was a pup. He got bayed solid twice the other day by his self.   Wasn't able to seal the deal though.  I think the hog swam the river and he didn't quite figure it out. He's loved to use his nose his whole life. I have to kill or remove hogs where I hunt.  But this is an interesting topic.  On a side note we had 6 hogs escape about a month ago. 3 were in the 50 pound range and 3 were little piglets.  All were domestic hogs, spot and mulefoot crosses. We have a few wild hogs here. I was pissed that they got loose, but now im kinda excited that they'll go feral and also breed with these wild ones.

Justin, I garuntee you know where I stand on this topic, but seeing as how my whole county is "kill em" country, I just stay tight lipped these days.
if I were managing hogs... id do exactly like your talking about plus running feral sows thru a Domestic Boar pen, because domestic sows will die off too quick when put out.

hey, also, something else to try. let your dogs bay for a good long while, throw some corn or feed and call them dogs off. 

them hogs you had in that hot wired pasture?!?


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3 of them were slim. We bought some hogs from a guy that was full of crap. It was one of those to good to be true deals. Our hogs that we put in there from the beginning have stayed put. We bought 6 hogs from a guy who said the big ones which he said were 150 pounds were electric fence trained.  They all got out that night. And the other 3 (piglets) was my fault. I rigged up a small pen in a hurry and they all got out 2 days later. Haha. The ones he said were 150 pounds were probably 50 or 60 pounds tops. He delivered them for free and my wife was all excited about it or I would have told that guy to take em back home.  But oh well....you cant will all the time.

We kind of manage them the opposite way. We want the russians & we take out or barr any off colored hogs or Piney Wood Rooter type hogs. The Russians like said are a wilder hog, but there are a lot of ferals that can run like a bat out of hell. It just boils down to what you want. If you want bigger blockier hogs, that is your preference & nothing wrong with that. To me, the old time Piney woods rooter was reverting back to a Russian hog. They had a extremely long snout & were smaller in the hindquarters. They could be any color but did not have the heavy wool undercoats or reddish brown hair that the Russians have.

^^ My opinion of an old school hog around a here is one that's long nosed long bodied like a rooter hog. Just made sausage out of a sow that fit the description of an old school rooter hog. But if Satan had a twin it would have been her. She would meet you or the dogs at the trailer gate. You see more color now then you used to. But can't beat a pretty spotted hog!


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How do you tell the sows are in heat when you catch them?

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Perfect example of different strokes for different folks! For the sake of conversation, if you don't mind I would like to hear why ya'll prefer keeping the russian type hog as opposed to the old school rooter type hog. I prefer the rooter type hog simply because that is the type hog I grew up seeing and hunting from a young age. Like I said, I didn't get into running dogs until 05/06 but I gave them hogs hell with my 30 30 when I was younger walking the woods and wearin them out every chance I got (guess im partially to blame for the downfall of rooters in our woods). We aren't doing it simply "because the russian type hogs run" although some have the tendency to run I believe that regardless of a particular feral hogs genetics some just flat out prefer to run while others prefer to sit down and bay. We simply like the rooter type hog so that is what we are trying to improve as opposed to the newer outside influenced type hog.

Back home in Florida, we always kept blooded hogs mixed in with our Rooters. Although we have caught and sold many hogs through out our existence, we have always been about fresh pork. I still honored "marks" right up until the time I left 10 years ago. My family down there still does to this day. Here in SE Tennessee there is a lot of Russian influence in these hogs. Some of the Old Timers I have become friends with introduced some Poland and China blood years ago and I have caught a few colored hogs over the years. The current laws regarding feral hogs in this state are absolutely ridiculous at the present time. Although I occasionally fed out a few in my pen here at the house, periodic "visits" from the local wardens make it difficult, to say the least.

"feed out" ;D

I remember when it used to be good hogs. They never ran and would sit up and bay. When I was about knee high my uncle uncle sent a bulldog, bulldog caught the hog which ended up being a Barr @ 345lbs. He could flip the hog by himself and there Damn sure want any cell phones I those days, so he pulled the bulldog off, left the hog with the dogs still baying and went picked up my dad, went back to where he left the dogs which was about an hour later, and they were still baying in the same location. Nowadays that number 2 wouldn't happen in 100 years. I guess my point is, people change from decade to decade. Therefore wildlife will change from decade to decade, BUT I think there is a way to reintroduce good baying hogs in an area and it all starts with management. Take out the small framed long legged hogs and introduce more domesticated hogs to the woods. I'm not talking 100%, I mean bread a few I pens and gradually turn em loose. After all, that IS the reason we have hogs here today... Pretty much go back  to what started everything ( meaning domesticated hogs escaping turning feral, which led to big framed short legged hogs) along with some culling, and eventually you will be satisfied with what the outcome is...

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I had few typos with these new POS phone but you get the general idea lol

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Justin, It is just like you say, a personal preference. I love catching any hogs, Russian or Feral but just like the Russians better. I don't need the pork to eat, I just enjoy the dogs work & it seems like they have to put a lot more effort in bring a Russian hog to bay once he breaks. When they first were introduced to our part of the country, We never knew a hog could run like that. Back then, like said above the hogs bayed up very easy. Of course the woods were different too. Mostly open woods with virgin timber on it & very few hog hunters. A big Russian boar is just a prehistoric looking hog & we went to a lot of effort to make sure they made it.

10 4  cajun, thanks for the response.

(http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac192/t-bobparker/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s899.photobucket.com/user/t-bobparker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)

This passage from "Backwoodsmen" by Thad Sitton is the motivation behind a recent project of mine. Thought you may enjoy.

Im gonna have to get a copy of that one Terry. Appreciate the post bud.

xs 2 , i'll bet avy joe never needed a bulldog either .

thats the difference in using dogs for a living and using dogs for sport , like the old man was saying .

nothing wrong with either but if the sport hunters understood how the  the old timers did it and what made their dogs successfull they would know how to have/breed better dogs imo .

You know John, I've read that book cover to cover three times and haven't seen no mention of no bulldogs!  ;)

I'm working on this years crop of youngsters. I've never "trained" my cur dogs to do nothing, just hauled them and let genetics do its job, but this year I have been baying with them and scooting in on em to hiss them in or back them up. I'm planning a little something, may not work, but I'm having more fun than usual

i can smell what your cookin t-bob , keep me posted .

Beside good dog work my second favorite thing about hog hunting is the management aspect, if a sow bays easy or is springing with pigs then she is off limits to kill, just about every boar we catch is cut and turned back loose, depending on the area, 90% of the places i hunt I can do as I please with the hogs, I've crossed several with domestic blood and kicked out just because I like to catch hogs with some color, me myself I prefer a running hog, my reason behind it is for several years me and an old hunting partner "built" the population up in our area with easy baying hogs, I was the one footing most of the bill for everything, well that sorry POS decided he wanted to do a 180 with his life and lost everything he had, including good job, good wife, and good friends, well he called in a bunch of knuckle heads and they went in and caught and killed about 40 head in a month or two, now to some that may not sound like a lot but if you live in a area where there isn't a lot of hogs that a detrimental blow, so after that episode I got permission to hunt everything around. Now the hogs are managed but not just any numb nuts is going to be able to bring in some 1st rate culls and catch them, in one particular place I hunt in about 6 hunts we pulled 4 mountable trophies out of there this year, 3 being big Barrs and one was a fine boar, by cutting every boar caught there and turning the sows back out it seems like everytime I go there we catch hogs. For the ones who say they have to kill everything they catch or they will be shunned, if you would just keep your mouth shut and not go around bragging to everybody and beating your chest that you caught a hog then people wouldn't know your business, I have a FB account and vowed a while back to quit posting pictures of every hog I caught, now it has to be a good'en, some good dog work that can be bragged on, or it involves my son or any kids in our hunting party. If you don't need the meat then why not leave it on its feet, one thing me or anybody i hunt with never has to worry about is a place to go hunting, we keep them managed to a point where everybody is happy, yes we do have several places we hunt that we can kill everything we catch and still don't put a hurting on the numbers, that's the places we go to fill our freezers or to get a friend a hog. The reason hogs are like they are is because of bad management involved.