EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Anyone have a catch dog that stopped catching or only catch so often. Mine will go to bay hard but want catch. But when he does catch he catches hard and holds.

Get rid of him. That's dog is gonna get you in a bind. Don't mean to sound harsh or be an ass but I'm not gonna feed one that catches when it wants to

 Does he have any broken teeth? Has he taken a hard hit from a hog? I mean really had his bell rung?

He has one chipped tooth never got hit hard by a hog. He was a bad boy big hogs have been caught with him. I just don't wanna give up on him yet. He is my first catch dog that's why I'm looking for help.

 If the tothe is only chipped, I'm not sure. My dog broke an eyetooth completely out on a hog. she will still try to catch. if she tries to catch on to broke tooth side, her grip is a little weak but besides that, she does it.

Like I say he will catch but not all the time and just about every hog I catch with him we have to kill it cause he crushes the snout. I don't know maybe time to just make him a pet.

So he is a nose dog and only catches at times. No offense but as said above I would be looking for a replacement. A dog I could send with him I could count on atleast.


Shotgun
Arkansas

I understand and thanks for the help.

Interesting.  A dog that prefers to catch on the snout and will catch big pigs but won't catch consistently.   
     One simple test I would do if I was you since your partial to the dog .    Work with the dog by himself without the presence of any other dogs.  Where the dog can't hear or see other dogs.   Introduce the dog to a decent pig, say 200 pounds.    If the dog won't straight up catch, you most likely don't have a catch dog, just a real rough gritty dog.   If you would like to explore that more, on a different session, put two rougher type bay dogs in a bay pen with the same pig.  Let them bay him and let the dog in question  listen for a minute and watch and then allow it in the pen.  Same outcome or different now?       
            Exceptions:
    Is the dog is young, it could be that the dog is in sensory overload at times and will grow out of that.       
    Are the times the dog won't catch, only the times when multiple hogs are bayed up at once?
    If any of these two are yes, the bay pen won't tell you much beyond what the answere to the two questions did.   The bay pen will be a good place to work with the dog though, just remove the bay dogs and start with smaller pigs and work up in size.      If the answere to both questions are both no, it could very well be something the dog is reading and picking up from you given the circumstances you previously mentioned.    I'm not gonna go into explaining this, most people won't comprehend it and it would be pretty lengthy to explain.  If both those questions are no, just much much easier on you to get a different catch dog, one that's full AB or pit.  Hard to go wrong with either of those, though there will always be an exemption here and there.
 

A catch dog has one job to do and he/she has to do it when called upon.  If he don't catch or die trying, he aint a catch dog and I wouldn't call him a catch dog ever again.  Last catch dog I had before my current would bite with the nubs he had- didn't matter to him what happened last time or how many teeth he had or didn't have- his mind was on one thing and that was to catch.  Catch dogs must have that mentality or they are not catch dogs.  And I think the best catch dogs have no memory.

Kind of like a closer or a DH in baseball.  When the coach calls to do what they are paid to do, they better do it or they wont last long.

My thoughts exactly 71409 well put

To say a catch dog has only one job is to sell it way way short or misunderstand them.         If all you want is a dog that you lead up to a pig and turn it loose to catch what's just a few yards beyond it and catch or die trying and that's as far as your understanding essentially goes with catch dogs or that's your only criteria, great.  However catch dogs are the most versatile hog dog there is.    They can do it all.    If a lead in is as far as you want to take a catch dogs job, and you dont have much patentience in developing a dog, then a pit is definitely a go to dog for this type of person .   However even they are capable of much more than just that.       
   Though it's not the culture of most here in the US, catch dogs are performing every role every dog in your kennel combined does.    (Exception - I don't know of any that willfully grind out a cold track the way some hounds do)        The realm of catch dogs can get pretty complicated and complex because of the wide range of roles some are expected to perform by their owners.
    Some of the combined jobs a catch dog is to perform on each hunt is to strike it's own pig be it off the truck, casting, or hunting out on the ground while your driving, and also hunt equally well by sight and by sound.   These dogs are to have very good stamina and heat tolorance.  Their holding style must be clean.  When the hunter takes possession of the pig, the catch dog is to role out and hunt up another.  The objective is to catch the biggest pig available running past smaller pigs to catch a bigger one or running past a dog that's already caught in order to grab ones own.     They need to be very fast when performing to this degree.    Afterwards they take in the role as loyal companion and family / pack member.  Sometimes as alarm bells when unannounced  quests show up or other critters show up that may prey upon the chickens.  They are stock broke and wildlife broke except for the intended species such as wild pig.  Should be able to hunt on an exotic high fence game ranch without showing interest in any other animal other than pig.  They are expected to be able to do all this and more without the help of another dog.
    This is what the line of dogs I run are bred to do and this is what I expect from all but 1 of my dogs.   To get this degree of catch dog you don't need the line of dogs I keep, you can pretty well get most of this with most breeds of catch dogs used but when wanting the complete package, it's better to go to a line of these dogs rather than hope for a pit that can combine the stamina, heat tolorance, speed, and clean hiding style with what you can bring out in the dog such as everything else.    To get this level of catch dog, you can not just be content with the one job and one job only outlook.     
    It amazes me that people will put this amount of effort, training, patience and research into their bay dogs that can only take the hunt half way and must be completed by the catch dog, when the catch dogs are very capable of performing the entire steps from beginning to end, by themselves.         I think people for different reasons don't see catch dogs as being able to do these things as I've described.  They either don't have the patience and understanding of them or are intimidated with the thought of working to this degree with a catch dog they see as dumb or stubborn or unteachable, they don't understand how to hunt without bay dogs, they think a catch dog is not capable of hunting and striking pigs as well as their lead strike dog, they want catch dogs catching now and not tomorrow etc.
     Some guys just partial to listening to dogs bark and running pigs.
  Either way, what I'm trying to say is catch dogs can be more than just catch dogs if you don't limit yourself and them by saying they only have the one job.   Some guys may be wanting more out of their catch dog than just the one thing.   For these guys, they will need a better understand of what it takes to develop a catch dog to do these things rather than the guys that see and use their catch dogs as just lead in catch dogs.

He is a full blooded pit about 3 yrs old. The first time he didn't catch the bay dogs had a small group of nice hogs bayed up. We got in the into the bay and it was like he was lost didn't know witch way to go or witch one to catch I guess you can say.

Blackstreak- that was a lot of typing for nothing- I stopped reading after the first sentence.  Yes, catch dogs catch.  That is their job.  Anything short of catching every time is a cull or it is not a catch dog.

Drifter- I hope your thread doesn't get hi-jacked but I have a feeling is will happen.  Take it from me or Shotgun.  If he aint catching everytime, get one that will.  If not, you may just have a 1/2 catch dog and he aint worth feeding if you can depend on him.  When I let mine go, I can follow him right to the bay because I am 100 % certain, if he makes it to the bay before the hogs break, he going to catch.  That is why I feed him.

3 yr old pit that isn't catching good is a cull

I would like to think everyone for there input and help. There s a few things I think I'm gonna try before he turns into a yard dog. (My daughter and I love this dog) I had some folks tell me to hunt him with another catch dog since my work schedule don't alow me to hunt all the time and see if that brings him back to how he was before he started this junk once again thank you all for your time.

Something had too have happened to that dog at some point that boogered him up. Never heard of a catchdog that just stopped catching with a good reason like stated above, either broken teeth, internal injury, wrecked at some point etc etc. Hate to hear that it happened. If it were me and i really liked the dog i think i would let a good hunting dog friendly vet take a look and explain to them what is going on.

     That post wasn't ment for you, it was ment for people of a little different character than you who also want more out of their dogs then what you settle for.      The man asked a question and you answered it without knowing how old the dog was, what kind it was, and what if any was the common denominator when the dog didn't catch such as was he just not catching at a rally.        Any of these 3 things could answere why the dog wouldn't catch now and then and the dog could be gotten over.   You being so quick to call the dog a cull without asking even one of these things is before hand then turning around and belittling me for sharing info about the nature of catch dogs that most overlook is childish and insecure.  I was trying to help the man find the potential problem and work with him to fix it if it was one of these.      You sir just give the easy answere to a man that was looking for help and said he was kinda attached to his dog.    I wrote that deal about catch dogs to share with others that catch dogs can be much more than you see them as.   Looking at catch dogs the way you do, it's obvious why you couldn't help the man trouble shoot his problem till the possible avenues had been exhausted.    

For what it's worth, I've had a few lengthy conversations with black streak, and though our introduction was somewhat tense, I believe the man knows a lot about a catch dog and I do agree that there are dogs that catch and then there are catchdogs. Catchdogs aren't a Dime a dozen, dogs that catch are a lot more common. I've hunted behind some real deal catchdogs, and I know all too well first hand where a dog that catches will get you and the kind of situations it can put you in, Blackstreak has got to hear about a few of these situations. The kind that make you want to walk out of a bay. Anyway, as for someone who currently does not have access to a tried and true bulldog due to me selling mine like a jack butt. I would say do all you can to try to peg down what your dogs deal is, and if all else fails, find you a solid CATCH DOG


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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160331/090ed398561c43f087589133e088a6c0.jpg) this is my buddies dog. For a long time he caught every pig we bayed solo, and was pretty good I thought, on track to make a nice catch dog. Then one evening his vest hung up on the way in to a big boar, that boar hit him and cut every muscle in his shoulder in half all the way to the bone. At a year and 3 months that dog got WRECKED! after that I bought a seasoned tried and true catchdog and they always caught together once he healed up. Or I just used the older dog. I sold that older dog a month or so ago like a Dumb arse and it didn't take long to realize my buddies dog just wasn't gonna make the cut. Couldn't tell you how many bays I've sent him too in the last month that he hasn't got hooked and I've gone home empty handed. He misses, and gets thrown, and he just ain't gonna stomp his guys into the dirt to hold a pig for me. Needless to say the catchdog I sold, I'm buying back here very very soon


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I look at it this way, if I am going to call a dog a catch dog that dog better catch every time or he isn't going to be a catch dog.  Simply put, no room for error or no time for a dog that I have doubt on.  # years is old for a catch dog...a lot of good catch dogs are dead by 3.  I sure am not going to feed any dog until they are 3 if they are not doing what I expect them to do and I expect a catch dog to catch every time by 18 to 20 months.  Maybe some say that is early, but I've had dogs do it, so that it my standard.  If someone else's standards are lower, that is their idea.

Above all else, dogs must be mentally tough.  A real good bear dog or lion dog or hog dog is going to get beat up once in a while.  But if getting beat up changes their mentality so much that sometimes they do their job and sometimes they don't, than the dog is a cull.  If you want to cut your dogs slack and give them excuses that is fine, I'm not giving a catch dog one inch of slack because I am going in behind him (sometimes with my head down to keep briar out of my eyes and most of the time with my 6 or 8 year old son behind me).  He must do his job or I am going to be in a bind.

Dogs that get beat up should learn but it should not change them from their job.  My idea of a catch dog is catching every time, die trying, or he better try to catch the hog and if he gets slung off, he better try to run to down.  Simply going to the bay and not trying to catch wont cut it at my house. 

Pit, dogo, cur, or whatever- if he going to be a catch dog he better catch.  I've seen great catch dogs that were not bull dogs (and their is a difference) - they were mentally tough and they caught.

71409 I'm pretty sure everyone on here knows a true catch dog is supposed to catch. That's why black streak said right after your uneducated response about not reading after the first sentence that a 3 year old pit bull not catching is a cull. If you would have kept reading you would have realized that he was saying they can do so much more than just catch. He never said not catching was acceptable. You can't possibly understand what he's talking about unless you've owned or been around dogs of this caliber. I have hunted with black streak and know him and his dogs well. They are awesome specimens that can do it all. They are huge, fast, powerful and excellent hunters. I have pit x cur mixes that I also expect to do everything. Find catch and hold. Yes they catch true 100% of the time on any size hog. So yes catch dogs catch but they also are capable of so much more as he said if you would have kept reading.

Hmmm....my uneducated response?

He spent 6 paragraphs explaining a science laboratory of testing to train a catch dog...only to say in the last sentence..."what I am trying to say is"...

I don't think I missed anything Sambo.  I don't come on here to read blah, blah, blah.

Doesn't sound like drifter is looking for a research thesis or Six Sigma project on catch dogs.  He asked if anyones catch dog quit catching.  He is not asking about versatility and all the things a catch dog can do.  Tell me this.  What good is a versatile catch dog if he don't catch every time?

Drifter here is where I will leave my 2 cents.  If you take him hunting and you turn him into a bay like you said you do and he runs to the bay hard and don't catch- either get rid of him on the spot or don't call him a catch dog and find you one that will catch.

Yes I did say your response was uneducated because you did not continue to read the rest of his post which would be uneducated since you responded without reading. I wasn't talking about his post with testing the dog a bunch of different ways on if he will catch or not. I was talking about his post that catch dogs can do more than just catching. I am talking about do it all dogs. Obviously you don't understand that. Maybe it was a little off topic from the original post so sorry about that. Like I also said everyone on here should know catch dogs are supposed to catch 100% of the time. He was just trying to enlighten people that they canado more than that. It wasn't blah blah blah just cuz you can't understand it.

And also who's said these versatile catch dogs don't catch every time other than you just now? Again do it all dogs that you obviously know nothing about.

Hog Hunter I'm not trying to say you are uneducated and don't mean to sound like that.I was saying your response was as it didn't seem like you read it completely and then answered. So sorry for that. I'm sure you are a great guy and have killed plenty pigs. Black streak was simply showing there can be more to catch dogs and I was defending him because they can be more than just catch dogs. Honestly this did get away from the original post and I too believe as you do that a dog that doesn't catch isn't a catch dog.What we are talking about should be in a different thread on the versatility that some catch dogs are capable of.

I have seen pit bulls turn into bay dogs most of this is due to lack of hart or hard ness. A cd to me best catch and hold at all cost cuz my cuts do it and they have no bull dog in them. So if they can do it a pit better get with the program. I think dogs sometimes take on the spirt of there owner if you lack confidence in your self or the dog it might transfer over to the dog. Just like a horse that knows the Ryder is over matched. No matter the breed if you want a caught hog you need a good quality dog that will get the job done period no matter the route it goes to get there


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   I can agree with a lot of what your saying.    Once a catch dog is fully mature and switched on, it needs to catch and not be questionable in the least about it.
     What your describing though is pretty narrow and shallow when covering the entire spectrum of catch dogs.  If you want to single out a pit and this is what it should catch like by this age under the lead in working conditions then you can certainly put such a narrow set of rules on such a dog as a pit eventhough the breed is much more capable than the narrow scope of work your using it for.  I'm not trying to say your going about stuff wrong on your own yard BUT what I am saying is your broad blanketed statement regarding catch dogs in general are narrow and shallow and uneducated .
   If you think most good catch dogs are dead by 3 years old then you are not around good catch dogs, your just around the ignorant ones or uneducated and or lazy owners.
  Good catch dogs should not be getting killed or taking the punishment time and time again like your implying.  What I'm reading from you is your idea of a good catch dog is one that's hard but ignorant.
   Good catch dogs are all just as hard as the dogs you speak of but they are smart about their holding style and hold clean and avoid taking much punishment while their holding.  Some dogs will just set their and take it and get beat to crap and their owners take that as their dog takes hardness to a hole other level and that's just not the case.
   Not all dogs even within the same breed hold the same but different breeds as a hole tend to have noticeable differences and also require a different knowledge base.  For instance I will compare the 2 ends of the spectrum to one another.  The pit and the wolfhound.    If you judge a young wolfhound based on your knowledge about pits, you will cull the wolfhound before it even gets started catching.     The wolfhound in time would have been just as hard as the pit and would have been able to accomplish with ease what the pit could not or struggled with.  The wolfhound are naturally clean holders from the first time the catch.  Rarely will they get hit as a result and their cut gear won't have hardly any damage throughout the dogs long career.  It is easy to ruin a young wolfhound that's willing to go forth before it's ready.   Let a young confident wolfhound take on a big pig to early and get the dog banged up and it will set the dog back a good ways where as the  young pit will often times become harder.    It takes a wolfhound around 2 1/2 years to mature and mentally mature to the point it's willing to go head to head with big boars.  Once this dog is there though you have got one heck of a dog.   Now compare what little info I shared about the wolfhound to your standerds.  You could not develop a young catch dog as a wolfhound from the time you started it to the time it was old enough to be catching big boars.
    Danes are a bit different in how they start out but soon become the same clean holding dog a wolfhound is.   A dane when starting out is not normally the natural clean holder a wolfhound is from the first catch and will take a little punishment.  This little punishment will then result in the dane developing a very good clean holding style.  18 months with a dane and it's normally ready for any size pig.    
   There are many many catch breeds other than just these.   Hopefully you can see by the few examples I give, that you can not get the same end result by starting and treating each of these dogs as if they were the same whether they are pure breeds or crosses there of.
   A pit is the simplest and easiest catch dog to start and get to catching pigs but when you want to step outside this realm and make assumptions and judge all catch dogs based on your simple knowledge of pit type dogs, then you are not correct.   I know of examples and even names of people on this forum who have pits and similar dogs that are just as hard as the dogs you speak of that rarely get hurt and have lived a long life already and are still working and working once a week or more still and some of these are working without the use of bay dogs to boot.
   To assume that good catch dogs are often dead by 3 is wildly untrue.  I'd come closer to saying it's the ignorant ones that hold like crap that are dead by 3.   Crap happens now and then and a lucky shot to an artery might get one or one get knocked out in the water and drowned but rarely will a good catch dog die on a pig.     Usually it's just an infection that wasn't handled well, lack of feild knowledge to be able to take care of a bad injury that's really not life treating with proper feild knowledge, accidents such as dog getting run over, stolen, or miss used such as running one without a vest because it's hot or gearing the dog up with cheesy or worn out equipment, or vesting your dog so much that it can't move and hold clean, get up fast, entangled and empeaded or hung up and take a sever beating as a result.  The more you put on your dog the more heat it traps and the more it weighs the dog down in water and also the more and faster the dog becomes fatigued.       Lots of dogs are lost to heat stroke but this is often the result of the owner ignorance or good intentions.     Vesting your dog with gear from head to toe again fatigues a dog quicker, limits the air movement that can cool the dog and whisk away heat, the dog is out of shape because it just sits in a small kennel till the owner takes it out hunting where the catch dog rides to the bay on a buggy or truck, now put a vest on the unfit dog that traps heat, limits it's movements resulting in the dog having to work harder to move, the added weight etc and act suprised when the unfit poorly conditioned dog kills over in the short amount of time it's working hard and expending such a great amount of energy in such a short amount of time.  Extend that time or run that same dog on a hot day and it will die a young dog.  Really no suprised at all and is very predictable.   An out of conditioned dog will heat stroke pretty fast. The build of lactic acid in an unfit dog can seemingly mysteriously kill them, the inability too of the body to shed the build of lactic acid before the dog is taken out again the next day or two combined with that days work will often result in a dead dog.   The list goes on and on but the point is good catch dogs don't usually die at an early age because a pig killed them.

 

   You called the dog a cull when you didn't know what breed it was, or how old it was.   I just spent a little time explaining why one would want to know these things about a catch dog before calling it a cull.   If the dog was young or young for its breed then that opened the door for a lot of different  factors that could be resulting in the dog only catching sometimes at this stage in its life.     You didn't have the intelligence to ask or think of this before you told him to cull it.  So yeah, I used the term uneducated.  Often times truth hurt and people get offensive when confronted with it.  Shows insecurity and lack of knowledge when they do lol

   Judge you are very correct as usual.  I wasn't surprised to see mention that the owners confedence or mentality plays on the dog too but was very glad you did mention it.   That's not heard a lot and I think it's EXTREMELY important when developing young dogs.   Dogs are reading you constantly whether you know it or not.  We forget this or over look it or are not aware of it to begin with.    How we conduct ourself and our patience, our mental stability, and our confedence goes a long long way in developing young dogs and establishing ourselves as pack leaders and having content dogs and also having stability on your yard.        If the leader of the pack is not confedence the rest of the pack senses it and it will often erode theirs as well.  If a lack of confedence is maintained, it opens the door to be challenged as well.

Ya I feel a strong bond with your catch dog is very important. But when u have the thought that a cd is just a cd then you are limited to that 


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This is my opinion and strictly that, a catch dog is the navy seal of your pack, he's never supposed to question his job and never once be out of the fight until he takes his last breath, every single time out no matter the circumstance, my advice would be to make him a pet and move on if your attached to him, folks can church it up however they want but a dog who doesn't do his job when he's asked to do it is a cull, no different than a man in the work force, if you pay a man to weld and all he does it tack then he ain't a welder and he gets fired and is replaced with a welder. I don't have the time to put a lot of time into trying to make a catch dog, some say I'm a little harsh but after a dog catches the first time if he ever questions his job then he no longer resides on this earth, I hunt by myself a good bit  and need a dog I can depend on when called upon, not one I've seen back down before, that will always be in the back of my mind every time I hunt.

Goose when a young pit pup at 6 months old catches a 100 pound  pig today and tomorrow you send that pup to a 250 pound dog savy boar and he strip the pups confedence away because of the beating he put on that pup, will you see the pup as a cull if it then goes to barking at that pig like the other dogs are?

Lol that's funny


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The one thing I don't enjoy seeing on here is someone making a mockery of another mans post because they gave an opinion and someone disagreed/challenged it and it Ruffled their feathers. The OP didn't ask if we thought he had a cull, he asked if anyone had been in his position for and for any advice and insight on how to maybe get this dog lined out. Some did their due diligence to help the op and I enjoy getting on here and seeing it. I've learned tons in the last 2 years from that kind of thing happening. But a couple just said "you have a cull" which honestly, isn't your call to make for somebody else's dog, and it wasn't what he was asking for.


OP, I'd advise again, try and peg down what went wrong where for this dog. Or what it is that messing him up. If you do your due diligence and just can't get it sorted out, if you like the dog, I'd say get another Forsure catch dog and run them together. I personally like running 2 Bulldogs when I can.


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First off I wouldn't be catching with a 6 month old dog, yes maybe playing around in a pen at the house, and dang sure wouldn't put him on something he wasn't equally matched with at that age, and to answer your question about the culling, here's my outlook on it, if and when I feel he's ready to haul to the woods, if from that moment on that dog even so much as thinks twice about not catching, then like I said before, he will not take another breathe, there's a difference in going out with his boots on and just plain out getting whipped of its job, I've seen some Bulldogs do some amazing things and display the true heart of a warrior, I'm not going to go into detail about how, when, or where because that's irrelevant. Everybody has their own ideas and goals for their dogs.

    Good deal.      In bulldogs you can have standerds like that and the average young bulldog fulfill these standerds of progression.  However certain things can keep the first timer from performing as you so desire.   Once the young bulldog has it down then such standerds are usually easy for the bulldog to fulfill.
      Other breeds of catch dogs take more understanding and patience to develop but once they are fully developed and hard can easily outperform most bulldogs when hunted the way I do.  It's all a matter of understanding breeds and knowing what you can expect while they are developing in order to see such dogs through.       The end result in my standerds for a catch dog far exceeds that of yours but in order to get a catch dog to do the things I demand, takes work on my part as well as patience and understanding and persistence.         Knowing what I do about the different breeds and crosses there of catch dogs, I knew to ask how old the dog was and what breed it was before I told the man his dog was a cull.  I didn't know it was a 3 year old pit before I asked.   A pit should be performing it's lead in duties by the time it's a year old.  Makes a difference as to what breed and how fast you can expect it to progress till it is catching and holding big boars 1 out.
   

Goose, did you post an all inclusive list of your standards for a catchdog?

Did I or would I?

Did you? Just saw in the post above where your standards were mentioned
But I didn't recall seeing your standards in previous posts. If you have previously posted them could you direct me to the post. If not, and you don't mind sharing, I'm interested in seeing them.

Well I ain't those fellas but I will give you mine. 1 must look good 2 must not fight 3 needs to be a good enough dog to ride in the cab of the truck 4 needs to know the difference between my snacks and his 5 not cry in the box or going to the bay 6 needs to walk easy on a lead 7 no regrip 8 understand caught hog and chill 9 catch ear 10 not let go till told 11 


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Got cut off lol u get the pic


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I think that may have been Black Streak.

So Judge in other words you need a well behaved buddy that gets down to business when you ask him too.

P.S.  I like how #1 is look good hahahaha

If you sent him to a small rally and that was the first time he didn't do his job, maybe he did do his job but the other hogs whooped him down before you got there. Just I thought. Is the dog eating? Jaw not broken or anything like that?

Rednose you got it


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One thing I've seen, I'd assume, I could be cometly wrong bit since he's your first catch dog.. Your fairly fresh to the sport. You got your hand full of places. These places never had dogs on them. Hogs Arnt dog shy, never been bayed so at first this dog you have was catching hogs that had never had dog pressure on them. I say this because I've seen it time in time again. Hog sit up and bay pretty first few months, any catch dog can run in there and hit em bounce off and hog, it stand there confused. Now that they are dog educated it's starting to show the caliber of catch dog it really is. Especially catching on the snout.. Some of the hogs around the house will break at the noise of a Catchdog coming in. Dog smart hogs are way more harder to catch, and you just about need a ACE Catchdog to catch em. They get hit, and they are gone. No more standing around for a second grab. I could be completely wrong and looking at it another way.

Sorry if I came off calling you a beginner, I kno nothing of yourhunting experience. I'm sorry, maybe what I should have focused on was the pressure the hogs had on them. Now your starting to see the caliber of dog he is..

You are right I haven't been hunting ling and have ways hunted with family and there dogs.  I hunted him today and he did good.  Hog broke before we (dog, me, and hunting friends) got there and he couldn't keep up with curs. I got him home walked him Round outside of bay pin and he tried to get threw fence to hogs. Put muzzle on him and put him in Bay pen and he gave it hell. Got rolled by the 3 hogs but never quit.  It was only him no Bay dogs.

Why would you do this?^^^^
What did that teach him?

The muzzle wasn't my idea. They didn't wanna just let him go cause he kills what he catches. The pigs where about 100lbs maybe. I trust the person who put it on him so figured he knew what he was doing.

Well buddy you do what you want but if you can't count on that bulldog 100% of the time you are setting yourself up to get hurt or get someone else hurt. This dog is a cull, a catch dog catches and doesn't have any quit.

I understand thanks

Agree...I am now wondering WTF?

Catch dog + muzzle + bay pen = disaster. 

Not sure who that guy is that you are trusting but I would get rid of the bulldog and the person you are trusting and find a new coach and a new bulldog. 

Back up and punt.

        Haha.  I like the last line and second it!