EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

For those that bay and shoot .. whats yalls method to  gun fire into ?

With bird dogs the best way I've been taught to associate gun fire with birds. I start off with them chasing the bird and shooting a .22 blank as they're running. They get so focused on the chase the gun fire means nothing .. If you get one that looks back or gives you any indication that it's bothered by it , time to back off for a while . Before to long if they're in a kennel or a dog box and hear gun fire they're going crazy to get out and go hunt

I know a lot of pros make a lot of money off of people taking their bird dog to the gun range to " see if it was gun shy " ..

I myself have had a dog that was introduced the wrong way to gun fire  ( had a gun shot in his face while on point ) and it was to the point to where if he smelt quail he knew gun fire was next so  he'd come find me and stand next to me like a trash broke dog telling on young dogs .

So do y'all start off with a small caliber while baying ?
Just shoot a gun around the dog and hope it doesn't run and hide under something ?

Just really curious about it
thanks !

Chris, back when I was fooling with a lot of Labs, I always fire red 22 Blanks off when I fed them. Never had a gun-shy Lab but have had several Plotts that were mostly due to bad shooting on the hunters part & not waiting until we got the young dogs back. Had one idiot with a AR-l5 & shot about 5 times scaring the hell out of some young dogs.
  Now my Grandsons are always popping their bull whips & the young dogs have gotten so used to them, it never bothers them anymore.

 we hardly ever shoot anymore on hogs..... but when training a dog for shooting over I take a caged coon or squirrel tie them close to the tree let   them get to fighting the squirrel or coon and pull it  up ......as they are treeing it or baying it shoot while letting it down to the dog I'm sure a bird in a small cage  would do as well...it don't  take long and they associate the shot with the animal comeing down to them and they flat  run looking for game when you shoot ..I always tie the dog to start with...  in the baypen on hogs  I clap and make it break same thing they associate the clap or loud pop with the hog running and chase ...like I said  I don't worry with it on hogs  we  hardly ever shoot one .....

Bingo, thats exactly what I was about to say. I start out banging pots or pans together loudly right before I feed em, they associate the noise with food pretty quick. Then after a couple weeks I start using .22 blanks. I will feed then walk off and shoot a couple times 60-70yds away, they rarely even flinch, over the period of a couple weeks I will gradually get closer as I shoot, before they know it I am standing next to them shooting it and they pay it zero attention.

I would  want my dogs reaction to  be looking for game when I shoot not me for food ..... that's just me ....

I hear ya on that however 99.999% of the time if i shoot i want my dogs coming back to me. I rarely ever shoot anyhow but if i do i want them coming back. The few times i have bayed and shot over my dogs i havent had an issue with em coming off the hog, to be honest just about everytime i have shot the hog they pile on it immediately after the shot.....havent really figured out why but they do....

[quote author=justincorbell link=topic=93950.msg547545#msg547545
  to be honest just about everytime i have shot the hog they pile on it immediately after the shot.....havent really figured out why but they do....
[/quote]

That has been my experience as well...

I start out calling my pups to me and they come running for a treat...after 3 or  4 times of that the next time I fire the 22 pistol using blanks...I watch the pups carefully and adjust accordingly...after 4 or 5 times I can shoot in their mist...I then do this a few more times just to refresh their minds...this helps quite a bit when shooting over them...if I wanted rock solid dogs that were totally broke to gunfire I would increase the amount of early training...but I am not in it for competition...I get excellent results...

 I want  mine to look for the game I'm shooting at and catch  it .......if not  you may loose the game .....when I watch bird hunter's on tv looks like to me when they bust a bird out there the dogs hone in on it and  go get it ..... I wonder why gun break them to come to you ?

In the event they get somewhere that they are not supposed to be, it has saved me alot of trouble more than once. And like i said, in the rare case that i do shoot a hog (once this year) over them they pile on it, they aren't college graduates by any means but they are smart enough to tell the difference between me shooting a hog in front of em and my being a 1/2 mile or more from em shootin in the air and hollerin em in.

Thanks for all the replies y'all ! I didn't want to take over the other thread on pup development and thought this topic might be beneficial to others and myself
 .. i've  always wondered how others approached gun fire mainly  because I've seen how absolutely crucial proper gun fire intro is in the bird dog world

Thanks !

chris you hunt german shorthairs ?  if so I bought a solid colored liver female from Kirby rush in Kansas ....  I have part curdogs and part bulldogs  with that blood in them ...just a pet project ..... some of them made real good dogs .....

Parker49 I have 2 gsps .. And I run them with field trial people and in field trials.

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It is hard to beat the confirmation on Pointers, English or GSP. They are physically top specimens for the most part.

beautiful dogs ...mine was solid  in color and  some of the crosses where solid  black ....I mean inside  of there mouths was  jet black gums around the teeth and all ....I've seen dogs with black in the roof  of there mouths  but these  were completely black anybody ever see that ?

Thanks Cajun thanks Parker !

Those two dogs are pretty much polar opposites.. The one with the ribbon comes from show dog / hunting background ..
And will be tuff to finish

The one on point is 9 months old and already finding lots of wild coveys for me .. Not to mention naturally backing ( he will stand still as soon as he sees another dog go on point ) . He comes from field trial blood lines and is showing lots of promise so far ..

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160528/a12a962e281848ea986ac074a61136d6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160528/1b0b82f1e2adca9dd59256ebf1891fb6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160528/b7e5b5e223ed073f1a7f588aa0b2889e.jpg)
Backing ^ .. The entire litter does it naturally and it will get further apart with more birds . It's basically honoring the other dogs point . They know the other dog is stopped because of  game and if they keep moving up they'll flush or run the game off .
Genetically I think that's amazing

Parker I haven't seen any black mouth gsps but that's not to say they aren't out there . There's soo many different lines and they all got something different to offer



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Cant say that i have seen any jet black like that, sound like some pretty dogs.

here's twitch if it works he  has black gums only 2 things in his mouth ain't black is his teeth and tongue ............. (http://parkercurdogsforum.proboards.com/attachment/download/329)http://parkercurdogsforum.proboards.com/attachment/download/329 (http://parkercurdogsforum.proboards.com/attachment/download/329)

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Mine do the same. If you shoot one around my dogs better make a good shot because they are going no to pile on him.

Fine dogs Chris.

Thanks !
I'm blessed to have great dog people in my life ..who have been successfully running dogs for many many years ..in a lot of cases longer then I've been alive

They sure are  helpful when question time comes around ..it ain't hard to ruin a good dog if you don't know what your doin haha

You're dang right buddy the same goes with these hog dogs the most valuable assets to have are good friends whom have been successful in this game.Dont try and reinvent the wheel just keep her greased up and keep on rolling lol.Those field trials look like a good time for sure.

x2...even the working weimers are usually good looking dogs as well...

intro to gunfire-puppy development...training pups to gunfire is easy for me but I have been around hunting dogs for over 50 years...I do not put too much emphasis on any training mainly because I only care to have dogs that meet my minimum requirements. if I were in it for competition then I would take it to that level.

Intro to gunfire is  important to me in that I do not want my dogs to run a mile to the truck if I were to shoot over them...or leave the hog right when I am showing up to the bay...I was wanting to explain a little more on this subject but have been very busy here lately...

I can see how a person without much experience can create gun shy dogs by making a few mistakes while trying to break a dog to gunfire...
however, I can say that I don't have dogs that need breaking because I break them as pups...

it is fairly easy to do and there is no secret to it...as I have said many times I use hunger to my advantage...I train/expose pups to winding/finding and trailing at a very young age for two reasons...and that is to expose them to these sessions so they can learn to use their senses and mainly for me to see who is born to do it naturally...this information I use to select as best I can and also for breeding natural's...

when I turn the pups out in the morning it is always before they eat for several reasons...during this time I clean their kennel while I observe them do what pups do and by this time they will really have an appetite...

Once I am done cleaning I let them play until the edge is almost off of them...I then go inside to the fridge and find and cut up some left over chicken or liver chunks...I then go outside and call them to me clapping my hands...I also exaggerate my calling as if I were calling my dogs out of the woods...might as well take all these opportunities to train as I use their momentum to my advantage...they come running and they are milling around me because this is about the third time I have done this...I have conditioned them to focus on the treats...

conditioning them to the treats is key...that will become their primary focus and that is what I want...once that is established I then know it is time to train to gunfire...

the next morning I will use the same routine...except this time I will have my cap pistol ready...

when I call and they are coming to me I shoot up in the air once or twice as I watch them closely...I will call and they will come and mill around...I will pet them up real good so their focus returns to the treats and the gunfire becomes minimal to them...

about the forth time of this I shoot high over their heads a time or two and pet them up real good...

the next session or two I will shoot down close to where they are milling around...and of course I pet them real good...I start shooting once or twice to get them coming to me during each session...I just add to it as they progress...

The key as I mentioned is being very observant of how the pups are reacting and making adjustments as needed...

If I really want these pups to be totally broke to the gun I would do this every 3 months or so until they were about ten months old...the first session being the most critical...after that would be once or twice per session..

but like I already mentioned I do not care to totally have them broke...I just want them to not run away at the first time I shoot...after a short while they will learn to stay because it is more fun to do so...

didn't mean to get long winded but I felt the new guys might need the detail so they can be successful...I can't say this is the best way but this works for me...

Thanks for the write up Reuben !