EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

 The trials in Ok. have been postponed due to the wet conditions.

do you know when? that works great for me because i wanted to go, but had stuff goin on this weekend!

also this is a big open pasture type event right?

 They have not set a new date yet. It is a big open pasture event where a set of dogs have to show ability to handle a set of cattle and lead.

 The new dates are Oct. 31 and Nov. 1

You got to be kidding me! dang it! thats the weekend we have our ranch rodeo!!!

bigo , do you know if anybody sells video tapes of the trial ?

also does anybody know if fbmcbo has cattle and hog trials ? 

 I don't know about the videos, I'll ask. Randy used to have trials every year when he lived in Bullard but have not heard of any since he moved to the desert. They got a big rain Sunday night and if they get the one coming Thursday, the trials will be off again I think. I will pass the news on as I get it.

thanks , maybe they will keep putting it off until i get our house built and can afford to go . lol

i would like to see some pictures of that.

 Skoal will be taking his camera, as he is the official photografer of this bunch. I'm sure he will post some.

I hope they put it off for a couple more weeks so we can go! !!! ;D

 Called off again. They say they will try again.

Let us know when if you will.

The trials are back on for this weekend, Nov. 14 & 15.

Where is this trial located?

James Camp Ranch,  Just south of Smithville, Oklahoma on Hwy 259.

That's our deer opener  :( :(

Someone PLEASE video the trial, I will BUY a copy from you if you do.

Its ours too... damn! I wanted to go bad!

Can someone who has been there tell me how this trial goes and how long it last for?  How many contestants etc.
Thanks,
Matt

Matt -  Here is a copy of a post on another board by a man who goes to this competiton every year.  I plan  on trying to take a few pictures but wont be trying to video . 

The KACSPE Cattlemans association annual (I think 27th year running) cow dog trials will be held the 14th and 15th of November ( Correct dates as of today) just south of Smithville Okla. on HWY 259 at James Camps place, now if you like good, get ahead, and lead 'emin cowdogs and good country folks you just as well show up, enter up or just watch and visit. I have only been to one other cowdog trials other than this one but I am told it is the best and the toughest one going by folks that have gone to several other such events, most of these folks use their dogs as part of their livelihood and know what it takes to handle cattle (and hogs) in big rough places. Historically there will be 15-25 sets of dogs on Saturdays all age contest and almost as many on Sunday for the Derby dogs "24 mths or younger" contest. There is dinner (12:00) meal served on the grounds and the proceeds go to the Assoc. Ya'll come. There is a gate fee but it is worth every penny haha.
The Calcutta usually starts at around 9:00 on Sat. and 12:00 on Sunday (there used to be a church just down the road a little way at the old place they held the trials thus the later start).

 I don't know what to think about a person that had rather ambush a deer than see the some of the best stock dogs in the world.  ;D

Man I wish I had the means to go .Big O do you know Kenny Reeves ? He's a friend of mine that goes every year There is and acquaintance I met thru Kenny I think he competes every year a tall lanky cowboy name C.W. . Anyways one of these day I'll have the privilege

I know who he is. I saw him work some dogs at stoghills in 1980 or 81. He seemed to be a good hand with a dog. I think he had the J T dog at his place breeding him for awhile. His sire was by one of my dogs and out of a Ben Jordan female.

I know the JT dog  .Mr Kenny use to win all these cow trials  in La. years ago back when they used real wild cows I think now they use pretty tame stock over here I aint never been but he invited me last year to go to that one in OK.If work wasn't so slow I would try to go . He's got a dog called Jake I raised a litter out of  and I got a 12month old gyp out of that cross I wouldn't take nothin for

I picked up a fancy video camera from my son today. It has a tripod and 40x zoom. I will try to film some of the trials and post it, if I can figure out how. Skoal will take some pictures and post those I'm sure. I know I won't film it all as I will be listening to the top old dogmen trying to learn something. The most important thing I ever learned was, you never get too old to learn. The kind of dogs and dogmen that will be seen here are disapearing at a high rate.

This ought to be interesting. ... Bob and I seldom ever had a camera with us out hunting or whatever, even then never did take many pictures... Just the last few years we started trying to take a few more, but we aren’t real good at it by any means and usually wind up forgetting to bring it or wind up leave the camera behind. There aint no telling how this video and picture taking deal will turn out. haha
 
Yep, events with dogs and people like this, a dog that just dose enough to get the job done or makes a effort or gets lucky or gets part of the job done aint near enough dog for some folks, including most of these guys. Getting the whole job done correctly with a true stock dog style, class and finesse will be the order of the day. The sum total of that will determine what's a good dog and what isn’t and who wins.
That in my opinion is the same criteria the good dog men use to judge their own every day, every hunt or work.  Consistent performance and the sum of the total of the rest of it is ultimately what determine if they have and keep a home or not. That’s is why those kinds of people have and raise good ones, that don't happen or come over night, it takes years and more effort than most people will ever put out. That is why there is fewer and fewer.  Living by that is something pretty rare these days when tailgate photo shots seem to be the single most popular measure of a dog and his ability.

Post by Clue Anderson on another Forum:

THE TABULATIONS ARE IN AND THE RESULTS ARE FINAL HAHA. Well we finally did get to do the dog trials at Smithville and had a good turnout in spite of having been rescheduled more than once. Saturday (all age dogs) there were 21 entries and as always there are 4 winners, 1st place went to Chris Herrige from Arkansas, 2nd to Dale Toons of Smithville, 3rd to Clay Hurst from Sulphur OK, and Outstanding dog went to Clay also on his dog Durago. Chris has BMC's he got his start in from Ben, Dale uses mostly Leopard dogs"catahoulas" and Clay although he has both BMC's and a good strain of Leopard dogs was working a BMC this year.
Bo Nutting was the judge and as always did a good job.

Sunday there were 17 entries to the Derby dogs (24mths and younger) when it was all done 1st went to Johnny Stone of Arkansas, 2nd went to Will Grantham of OK. 3rd went to Benny Jordan of Arkansas and Outstanding dog was owned by LaDell Toons of Smithville. Johnny Stone used some BMC Lep crossed dogs Will has BMC's, Benny has Bmc's and LaDell had a Lep dog. Bo had to go home and that put us in a bind for a judge but a fellow named Kenny Heman stepped up and did the honors.

The fellow that won the Sr horn blowing contest was Mike White (I think that was his name) and the Jr horn blowing went to Chelsea Anderson.

There was an added event this year on Saturday that was fun as well, someone donated a wild sow and everyone that wished to enter put up a fee (there were 13 including myself) we all lined up horseback with a rope and the hog was released out of a trailer about 50 yds. or so out then given some headstart and on the signal everyone went flogging and tried to rope the sow. The sow won haha she went a couple hundred yds and made it under a fence and across the highway, the crowd enjoyed it and everyone had fun.

There was quite a bit of tale telling and visiting took place, maybe a few cold beers and moonshine sipped on and lots of pretty good dogs cast. All in all a sucessful get together.

Post by skoalbandett on another forum:

Bob ( Big O ) and I sure enjoyed making that trip.. We had a great time and got to visit with some fine folks.. Those kind of events are a dieing thing in the working stock dog world. But not at this one or with these people, this was the real deal with the real folks showing the dogs that are a big part of their lively hood and have been in some cases for 60 years or better.
I sure got a kick out of gettin to visit with Ben Jordan, James Camp and a couple other old fellers about the days of open range, working and driving cattle, horses and Hogs. Ben loved driving those hogs and told several real good stories about it. Sounds like they did it just like it was done by many down in the Big Thicket country.. It's a shame that was closed 2 years ago by the paper mill folks in Oklahoma. All of that is exacty why these guys have the dogs they have today, you had to have the right kind of dog power to gather, bay and drive cattle and hogs in this open range wilderness mountain area. I'd say at least 1/2 the fellers there also hunted hogs with their dogs, enjoyed visiting with them.. Wen got a couple invites to come up there and run some bear with a couple of those guys.. Seems they are getting lots of them around there. We plan on doing that... LOL
As usual, our picture taken lacks a little.. For one we forgot and left the disk for the Video camera and extra batteries for my camera at home.This course was laid out over probably 1000 to 1200 yards and I really didnt have enough zoom power but did the best I could.
For those that dont know how it works... Basically In this case they turned 5 cows out,. drove them a little ways into the pasture. The contestent would then send his dogs ( Most were 2 dogs) and sucessfully get all 5 stopped, gathered and bayed up, then work and hold them properly for a one minute count. After that each contestent , using his dogs, had to drive the cattle through 3 different sets of gates a couple hundred yards apart and back into the lot. All of that had to be done in a 15 minute time frame. Now all of this takes place in a wide open pasture, there aint no fences. Dogs were given points or had them deducted for different things based on how correctly they did the job.
The luck of the draw on the lots of cattle is really what determined the winners. There were 7 or 8 teams of dogs there were really good dogs, some drew cattle that worked well, others drew some tougher cattle to handle. I think the first top 8 spots were only seperated by 3 points.. It was nip and tuck all the way. Clue didnt draw a good set of cattle, One kept wantin to leave there and another didnt want to drive, but his dog Cowboy put on a show stopping her and puttin her back in the bunch then leadin like a BMC dog should. Cowboy and Jordan did put some trainin on that cow, the next feller that drew that lot, that cow wanted no part of the dogs, stayed in the middle, drove and acted like a school girl.. lol That Cowboy dog is real impressive to watch work.. I honestly think he and one other dog,it was real close as to which was the best dog shown that day. Clue didn't mention it but Lisa tied for 3rd. SHE BEAT HIM.., Na we didnt give him any grief about it.. lol She has a heck of a good run and just may have been placed higher if Queen worked her normal style. Queen was coming in heat big time and stopped to pee to often. Lisa came back fussin at her.. lol ( Got her home Clue, we'll try her today )

I honestly wish every man who loves or cares about a good working head dogs could have been there to see this.. It was how dogs are supposed to do it and done by people who walk the walk. More BMC stock dog history there that I think you will find anywhere when it comes to the right kind of stock dogs. Cowboys and Ranchers from 4 states there to show their dogs, young and old.... I was real impressed with some of the spotted dogs there, I havent seen some like those in years.. At this one, the tail gate dropped and the BS stopped.. I loved it.

Picture First morning of folks arriving:
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_06.jpg)

Mr. Ben Jordan:
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/BenJordan1CowDogTrials111409_10.jpg)

This is Mr. James Camp, the event was held at his place.. His old Moe dog sure has
his place in BMC dog history of good working dogs.
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/JamesCampCowDogTrials111409_53.jpg)

This is Bob ( Big O ) , Clue, Lisa & Chelsa Anderson, Dr Charles Long and some of the other folks there
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/BobClueLisaChelsaDrLongCowDogTrials.jpg)

Clue with Cowboy and Jordan
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CLueCowboyJordanCowDogTrials111409_.jpg)oy and Jordan

Lisa and Chelsa with Queen and Roxie
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/LisaChelsaCowDogTrials111409_85.jpg)

Young feller Drivin Cattle during the competiton
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_36a.jpg)

Some other good cur dog working right
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_35a.jpg)

Clue Driving cattle with Cowboy and Jordan
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/ClueJordanCowboyCowDogTrials111409_.jpg)

Queen and Roxie working for Lisa
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/QueenRoxieCowDogTrials111409_81.jpg)
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/QueenRoxieCowDogTrials111409_82a.jpg)

Lisa driving cattle with Queen and Roxie:
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/LIsaCowDogTrials111409_84.jpg)

Some nice crossbred spotted dogs working:
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/SpottedDogsCowDogTrials111409_08.jpg)

The boy that won it Saturday with a awful nice BMC dog, Clay Hurst.
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/WinnerCowDogTrials111409_59.jpg)

This is the Hog Roping Clue was talking about..They all lineing up gettin ready. Some fellers drove 50 yards or so into the pasture and turned the pig loose. What a rodeo that was.. lol... Score.. Cowboys 0 Pig 13... Good lesson in just how fast a pig can run and how smart they are.. lol
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/HogRopingCowDogTrials111409_88.jpg)

A few of the dogs I was able to take pictures of before the batteries gave out:
These are Clue's dogs.

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CluesDogsCowDogTrials111409_99.jpg)

This is Clue's Cowboy dog. .. what a dog, I love this dog. he not only looks the part, bred for it, He is one what they supposed to be.
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CluesCowboyCowDogTrials111409_98.jpg)


Picture of some dogs in Bo Nuttings trailor
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/BoNuttingCowDogTrials111409_106.jpg)

Post by Clue Anderson on another forum:
There is more knowledge and experience of handling stock with head dogs right there on that one weekend each year than i have ever had privilege to anywhere i have ever been and i'm grateful to call many of them my friend, everybody is welcome and treated kindly, but not everybody really "gets in" it is just an old cultural thing that not everybody understands.
Yea Lisa did beat me by a point or two on Saturday but hey i broke them cows for her and Clay haha. Sunday Lisa and I both drew a pretty mild set of cattle so we just worked one young dog each as they don't listen quite as well and with just 5 head in the flat bare open (something ours aren't used too) i knew we'd have too much dog power with 2. I worked Droop and other than him wanting to go on because he smelled cow sign in front of him he did a good job, but him putting his nose down and starting off then me making him come back in to what we had just won't score well. Lisa used Sue and she worked like a house on fire, they asked me why I didn't let her work something with some speed haha, she was everywhere all at once while bayed and just didn't lead off well when Lisa went to driving, Sue is not normally rough but got to pecking on them a little and won't listen to Lisa as well as me then Lisa said she was afraid to try and make her back up much because she might have left her trailing haha (she had watched Droop). I guess she was overly excited about being able to get around so well and was getting even for all those briars and brush she is used too. All told there is a fair amount of dog power in those young dogs but the handle is just not complete yet haha handler issues I guess.
There was one casulty Sunday, One of Chris' young dogs got a leg broke, he drew a set of blacks with some ear that had handled fair on Saturday but Sunday one of them really worked at leaving and messed up his run, i was horseback out by the starting line watching and helping send them out for a good start and they went over the hill out of sight then when they came back i saw the dog had a broken hind leg. Ben drew the same set of cattle and didn't do well with them either.
The little brindle strip faced dog of LaDells that won outstanding dog Sunday really did put on a clinic, never missed a beat nor put one foot out of place, he was a real pleasure to watch.
We talked about it on the way home and figure Chelsea is gonna work dogs there next year. Joetta Toons and Lisa are the only women to have ever won the KACSPE trials, so I want to give my little girl a roll at it hahaha, Cowboy and Queen are really hers

I sure enjoyed those pictures, thank yall for posting them up.  Some really nice looking dogs there!!
Matt G

Man I might have to make that trip one day and see that First hand.  Looks like we need more Texas guys representing.  I know there is more than a handfull of dogs down here in South East Texas that could make a good showing in something like that.  Thanks for the post and the pictures.

Waylon

I know there are to Waylon.... You have some guys around that live down south and east and west Texas that have, know and understand good stock dogs, what it takes and what a good one is.  Get right down to it,,, a big percentage by far of these dogs ansestors orginated from Texas bred dogs, some of the old timers there will tell you that and where they came from.  By the way I can tell you for a fact, some of those dogs are still in Texas.
Anyone would be welcome and these boys would be the first to shake ya hand when you beat em.. To them, its about the dogs, but folks best come prepared.. these boys ( girls to)  and the dogs they raise and use are for real...    

Thats about the only way to be aint it? ;D

Waylon

Thanks for posting up the pics and story, I believe that I will be attending that next year. I can't think of any better way to spend my time, good solid folks I can tell. You can't tell how good your dogs are unless you haul them somewhere and see how they measure up. And I believe the bar is pretty high at Smithville.

Good pics Skoal....sounds like a good time for sure,is it about the same time every year? I may try and go next year,check that out,visit Clue and then Bob.I wish Clue woulda done better but w/ any cometition there are so many variables involved,I am sure his dogs did well tho and I am sure he had a good time.

Bryant,  It's usually this way when you are lucky enough to have quite a few good dogs  in the competitons and was especially so this time.  The luck of the draw on cattle and personal likes and dislikes of the judge will determine the placings. This judge seemed to llike gentle cattle, softer kind of dogs and smooth runs, thats what he scored well. I agree that looks pretty and should be scored well. I just dont know how real world that is sometimes on the back 40.. lol  For competition, Me, I 's rather see it when you got a rough cow or two in the bunch that wants to do her own thing and the dogs get her educated and put her back in the bunch. Then continue the run successfuly thru all the gates right and still be under the alloted time. I think that tells the real story on a dog and his ability.  It's easy when every thing is perfect and the cattle all do what you want but It shows ya what a dog has and is when the cattle are a little tougher to handle and have a mind of their own.
Me and several others thought Clues dog  was the best dog in the show because of how he did successfully handle a tough cow and completed the course with style and under the time frame. But hey, it's just a friendly show and it really dont matter, run the better 10 sets of dogs on another day and the placings may be totally opposite.. JMO

Few more pictures:

This is a couple of the spotted dogs that did some good things .. The feller first sent em to cattle, they aint messing around or checkin up, they gettin to the front to get those cattle stopped and bayed up.

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_07.jpg)


This is a picture of how open this place was and how far it was between gates... Camera is still on zoon.

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_50.jpg)

Some dogs doing some things you dont like to see, I am sure it cost em points as well as some admiration by the owner..  

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_15.jpg)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/skoalbandett/CowDogTrials111409_39.jpg)

that is not far from me and i kick myself for never making it down there.

i think one thing that keeps me from going is i go see all those good dogs then i have to come home to all my pot lickers  ;D

 one thing about it that is the best of the best from this part of the world.

 maybe i can make it next year..

 thanks for posting..

Thanks for the pics and Stories Skoal. I sure wish we could have made it and ill do my best to be there next year... there is definately some dog power and great cowboy knowledge there...

good deal , ive heard about that trial for several years now . maybe one day i can make the trip . can somebody tell me the otherforum that was taken from ?