EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

The forum has been a little slow lately so for conversation sakes I would like you game dog men handle y'alls dogs from the time they are pups to finished dogs to help them from turning too hot to hunt. Do y'all ever really ever trust them not to ever get to hot catch a dog weather in the box or turning to a bay? Just want to hear different methods and ideas.


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I myself try and not put them in a position to fire up at another dog. I  have been fortunate that mine didn't come out of the womb breathing fire like some lines. I  have used 3 different dogs performance stock and didn't have dog aggression issues.  They were hooked up on hogs pretty well before going to the woods. Mine  grew up playing with dogs that were pretty confident and didn't start crap.

If you play with fire enough your eventually going to get a burn, best thing to do is to not put yourself in a position to get burned, game bred dogs are warriors at heart and common sense and caution go a long way with them, another thing is to maintain your alpha status to them and start the discipline young and keep a handle on them, I had a female that was off of ch. pineleros kodiak and a heavy magnum bred bitch that was genetically bred to be a monster, she was raised in the house and socialized and disciplined from 6 weeks old, I had a few accidents with her when I wasn't around to turn that switch off whenever it was triggered but other than that she was a dream, my mother had a pet wild pig she raised from a bottle and I used that gyp to catch with and she knew not to bother that pig, another thing I will add and I don't care who agrees with me or not this is a belief I firmly believe in and just my belief but a chain will flip that light switch in a dog as well, I have raised countless Bulldogs in the house and yard and by around a year old when they go on a chain if not sooner I've seen a big difference in their attitudes and demeanor, I'm not basing this off of one or two examples, I'm 29 and have raised and been around dogs all my life and have seen this on multiple multiple occasions, just another thing to keep in mind...


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Another thing about some of these dogs...if there is a quarrel between 2 other dogs these game bred can fire off and get in the ruckus.

I had a good one that was raised with dogs and kids...well socialized...he did well but I treat all bull dogs carefully and supervised at all times when around other dogs...also was socialized around cattle. One day I suited him out turned him out to empty out and my friend was trying out new dogs and they went to fighting a cow with a calf...long story short the game bred bull dog runs and catches cow...I finally get him off and after that he never could be broken off of cows...no amount of shock collar zaps worked for long...also I will never let a bulldog ride in the box with cur dogs...

Goose I am  63 and am coming up on 40 years with this breed and I respectfully disagree on the chain being the reason they " turn on". I  have raised countless bulldogs and don't believe the chain or kennel made any difference in dog aggression. I  have gotten where it is second nature to be aware of how the dogs are reacting and nip it and I  don't ever leave them together unattended. Starting with a game bred dog as you're  catch dog if you are inexperienced is a recipe for disaster. But if you know what you are getting in to it can work. But like Rueben says,  things outside your control can light a fire in a hurry.

I'm pretty sure you and I both know what "turns on" a bulldog, I never said by putting one a chain is what makes them "turn on", but by putting them on a chain, mostly permanently where he will live out his days, especially after being raised running loose and in the house it changes a dogs attitude and demeanor, I'll give two prime examples, the little gyp I mentioned above never once offered to mess with the pig my mother had bottle raised, whenever the pig would come on her porch the gyp would get up and leave, my place is right next to my parents and my yard dogs go back and forth, a fella whom I didn't really know asked me about my gyp one day at the gas station as I was leaving to go out of town to work, so I got my dad to put her on a chain, now this dog had never shown any forward aggression but would definitely defend herself, after being on the chain for several  weeks something changed with her, as soon as she got loose she hit anything and Everything in her way and did it with a vengeance beforehand she was above average cool calm and collected, she was never quite the same dog not that it's a bad thing, another example is a male we're using now, he never would fire up on anything other than defending himself, we put him on a chain for two months and only fed watered and pet him and the next time we messed with him he took to it like a duck to water, I've only seen this display in APBT and my theory is by being constrained it in a way teases them and makes them mad, sort of a chip on their shoulder type mentality...


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I guess the way I worded it made it look like I meant one turning on, I should have said in my opinion it seems it brings out the aggressive/prey drive/competition/dominance in them more so...


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I  have just never see that in my dogs. I have only had a few in the house though. I have pretty much kept them kenneled  or chained.

Some are very stable most are not. You can never tell when a bulldog might want to get some. Most fire off around yr old and grow in to what they are by two. I seen some not be aggressive till they where 5. Some after they have pups you never really know. Any one who puts pits and other dogs together is just asking for trouble.


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Making  generalities about these dogs will usually get you nothing but arguments. Game bred tends to act a certain  way and pet bred has their tendencies but there are so many variables. Best advice I can give is get a catch dog from some one who has been breeding for that work for a good while. Most will
breed away from dog aggression and a  better handling dog. There are catch dogs out there being hunted off lead.

This is the best post on this thread in my opinion. If you do a search on my posts and go back a couple of years you can see many times where we have had this same discussion and this is basically the answer I give.

I have had game dogs since I was 9 years old. Grew up with them and around them. Most people do not want them even if they think they do. Most people that have them prob shouldn't own them but I guess that could be said about hunting dogs too.

Wayout is right about the generalizations too, but I feel and I have stated this before that all of them should be treated like a gun. And that isn't meant in a negative way. I love guns but they can be dangerous if mishandled, same with a game dog. Some you can easily break or prevent from having dog aggression and some you cannot. Some you think you can until all of a sudden one day you come home to a dead dog or two. Who knows what triggers it, maybe the other dog started it, maybe there was a female around, maybe food, or maybe that was just the day he turned on. Best just not to put yourself in those situations. I've also noticed and seen ones where they have been broke from their dog aggression and then since you are not working on it for an hour everyday anymore they revert back. Please remember most of these dogs have been bred for 120 years plus to do basically one thing; fight another dog and not quit regardless of circumstance. So you are basically trying to undue 120 years worth of selective breeding with your hour or two of training a week. It can be done and with some lines much easier than others but why re-invent the wheel? Find a good line of catch dogs from somebody using them the same way you want to use them and get some from them.

Thats my two cents, well that was probably closer to a nickels worth.

I treat them as loaded guns myself including the non game type...

Not to be an arse Judge but these dogs don't just go off without any warning. There are a whole lot of people out there who see what is coming long before it happens. They always give off body signals. Most people just don't read the language. I do not claim to be an expert on this but I judged these dogs for over 25 yrs. in the show ring approaching hundreds of strange dogs a year and I learned to read them pretty well. I did get a surprise this spring when I had my male in the back of my truck. A woman who works with my wife came up and threw her arms around his neck. He gave a slow low rumble and I was just  shocked. He has been solid around people but he didn't like that getting grabbed by a stranger in his truck.

Rednose made a good point about going against decades of breeding for a specific purpose.  That saying that all the do-gooder types like to trot out "its how you raise them" is pure bs. Yes you can guide them the direction you want but they are as strong willed as any hard breed.

great post...I also 100 percent agree on reading the dog...you can see the signals pretty quick even at a young age.

it is all about reading the dogs.

Way out you are well educated on these dogs I will give u that so am I. You just told that story of the lady at your truck. Now if you know these type of dog you no that most never growl before a thro down. And the growl could have very easily been a bite the lady was lucky plan and simple. I was attacked by a pit and had two surgery and over 200 stitches. Many times there are no sign period. People say I am crazy that I have kept these bull dogs all these yrs but I love the breed and just like other breeds they can be the best dog or the worst


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Judge,  their were signs before he growled.  It was just out of character as I had never seen him be protective of his space.  By the way he is  not game bred,  he is linebred  catch dog,  but a registered APBT.

I hear ya. But they all have the same capacity to do damage. Some just wear it on there sleeve as do people horses cattle elk what ever else there is lol. Not trying to argue with ya just saying what I believe


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ive always remembered this quote from richard stratton many years ago  " i consider the APBT(as a breed) the least likely to ever bite a human. but if they do i consider them the most likely to kill a human".

Gary that's the best way to put it


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More people are bit by cocker spaniel then pits just the pits do more damage


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I  am afraid the proliferation of these Malinowski may overtake the APBT soon. So many people getting them and they need a hands on trainer who knows what they are doing.

Dang autocorrect.  Malinois

Those dogs are nuts for sure. I did a kitchen remodel for a cop that a few of them you didn't want to step into that house with out notice


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Well, I'm just a newbie to these dogs but I am going to give my 2 cents... Way Out, you are right about there being some sort of sign most of the time. That however is not the case all the time. I have had Bulldogs that were multi time winners that were calm and collected around other dogs and wouldn't show the slightest sign of aggression towards them unless you stepped over them or put them in a box then it was a different story. I had a 32 lb female that would scream her head off digging and screaming to get to another dog in the box but she would let another dog run up to her and she would play with it until you dropped her collar. I had a male that was similar to her as well. I had a male that was a 2Xer that I caught hogs with and he wouldn't touch another dog in my he woods. No matter what I have never been one to allow any of my Bulldogs to run loose with any other dogs... PERIOD!! The rule I live by with these dogs and the dog aggression issue is "it's not if, it's when and how bad is it going to be when it happens". I don't allow my kids to be alone with any dogs, regardless of breed. The way I see it is if the dog has teeth it can and will bite given the right circumstances. I have raised my kids around these dogs and I have never worried about one of them biting them but I also never put them in that situation. The advice given above is as good as it gets... Get a catchdog from a catchdog line of that is what you are wanting to use it for. Gamedogs were/are bred for a purpose and that goes back a long time...

Gary...that is exactly why I treat them like a loaded gun...once they turn on something is going to die...I have the highest respect for the breed...

I have owned 2 Malinois, way more dangerous than any pit/bulldog IMO (of coarse 90% generality) especially to humans.

I appreciate the posts lots of good info.

IMO raising a bulldog on a chain is no different than anywhere else Ive had plenty of happy go lucky bull dogs on a chain, exception being its easier to get a great or good handle on a dog that is around you more, but nothing to do with aggression from years of keeping them loose or in kennels or chains.

I have had some bull dogs that were very friendly but when other dogs fight or trash it does turn them on often, and as mentioned above even if their the least likely dog to fight or bight once they do they are hell to stop ... That said I do let mine be around my kids etc and have never had a problem, they were bred to fight dogs not kids and mine were loving and protective of my kids if raised around them, very tolerant as well to toddlers abusing them. Never can be to careful though with our children so to each their own, never trust any animal IMO, but Id trust my kids with my bulldogs more than I would my horse.

Real Game bred pits are harder to socialize with dogs than AB's, Dogos, or avg pits, thats a fact but it can be done and ive seen some great game bred pit cds, but they only rode in the dog box with the opposite sex and were not fed together etc... not worth the extra work IMO but not that hard either if nurtured from a pup properly, to hell with breaking a started agro 1. Same as some good BMC's Ive owned though.

And to anyone who thinks a real aggressive dog shows signs of aggression first, let me educate you: Does your cd bark, raise its tail and hair stand up on its back when it catches a pig? NO! it runs in quietly and handles business. Same thing at a dog fight, the pits do not growl, bark, or raise hair or tail, their quiet and are there to fight not bark or BLUFF! All of that is for show and pecking order, real killers dont show signals they just act - just like our catch dogs.

Good post...
I have owned a Dutch Shepherd and he was by far more likely to bite a person than any bulldog I have owned or been around (including the junk blue dogs)... I have never had to but if one of my Bulldogs were to run in with hair raised and growling they would no longer be a part of the gene pool. You are exactly right, they aren't there to bluff, they are there to take care of business

I've had pits and never trusted them to the foolest. Mine are crossed up now walker ,cat  Mnt cur. My pure walker has always been growly but never concerned me to much ,well I have go in heat and he tried getting after me yesterday for yelling at him to shut up . He don't take correcting very well ,you have to leash am up before. I'm over it he's gone culled today when I get home. What I'm getting at is it's all dogs every breed ,it's just when it comes out.

Autocorrect gyp in heat

there are signals which will tell us about what we need to watch for...if an APBT is on his chain and you come by with a weed eater or lawnmower and the dog goes wild wanting to catch or shut off the noise...and one day a  family friend comes around with his family and the 3 year old throws a shrieking tantrum around this dog...

or a 5 month old game bred pup gets excited when some dogs are rough housing and this pup wants to get in the ruckus...when reading the pup you will know right then and there that this pup will fire off if given the chance...so you just know this pup can not be turned out with the other dogs...

That's most any breed. The only difference is the power and ferociousness is the difference. Most dogs will stop after a bit or a roughing up a pit will not or a good one won't lol


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You got that right!! A good one won't...
There are so many dogs out there that are being called game bred based solely on looks that it is pitiful. Most of the people that talk about "gamebred" pit bulls have no clue what a gamebred dog is or how they should act. They are just going by what they heard from a friend that had an uncle that had a friend that's cousin's buddy's dad raised and used gamebred dogs.

I agree...

I agree 100% Tmatt, the people biting game dogs are rare.